Heroica RPG General Discussion

[CMP]

Meh, if I were to do it, everyone would get repalced. Cue mass confusion.

I always knew someday, somehow, you'd host a Quest with NPCs only.

[Myrddyn]

Quest 88, If you want to, I think you could just have:

Battle order:

Tesni vs Dyra B, back row

General Hamilton vs Dyra C, back row

And then you wouldn't really need to auto-roll because whatever happens you'll end up with the same stats you currently have, as no party members would have any chance of taking damage.

But you'll probably wipe them out anyway.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Myrddyn

[Endgame]

I always knew someday, somehow, you'd host a Quest with NPCs only.

It's unfortunate, because my NPCs aren't all that great to begin with.

[The Legonater]

I would love to do that. It sounds like a fun RPing experience.

[Waterbrick Down]

Alright, question for the role players out there - if a QM told you you were "possessed" or a shapeshifter knocked out your character and took over their body or something to that effect... would you seriously play the part? I'm asking because I have considered it for a quest before, but have never been able to figure out way to mechanically enforce it/make it fair/make it fun.

The key with stuff like that is having either enough report with your players that they trust you when you as a QM decide to throw that at them, or you have asked their permission beforehand. If any QM asked me to do this for story reasons I would be fine with it, but there is a limited number of QM's that could tell me "I want you to act like a possessed/changeling" and have my compliance. As QM's we must always remember that a players character is their only method through which they can have a meaningful affect on the story as compared to the multitude of assets that are at a QM's fingertips, to take that away from them is to border on monopolizing the storyline and should be done sparingly.

[Scorpiox]

Alright, question for the role players out there - if a QM told you you were "possessed" or a shapeshifter knocked out your character and took over their body or something to that effect... would you seriously play the part? I'm asking because I have considered it for a quest before, but have never been able to figure out way to mechanically enforce it/make it fair/make it fun.

Of course. Think about Quest #49, it's not the same situation, but similar circumstances. I was told that Haldor had accidentally killed a man during the night and I had to try and avoid suspicion. I think it's nice for QMs to spring random events on characters, as realistically unexpected and unfavourable events do occur, and:

[Scubacarrot]

I would of course do it, but I think it'd be pretty difficult to do well for the QM and the player both, also, now that you have said that here, it'd be even harder to pull off.

[Zepher]

Now whenever I split up heroes, everyone will always be suspect.

Though I do like Endgame's idea.

Sorry 88 and 92, you both probably deserve auto-roll rounds right now, but stuff has to happen directly following the battle and I don't have time for that right now! So you'll get updates in ~6 hours - hopefully you both feel that we're back on track after that two/three day gap earlier in the week!

[Flipz]

After some digging in my gmail box, I was able to find a Role-Playing Tips newsletter that deal with charmed PCs:

Regarding the Indubitable Situation of Charmed PCs - 1d4 Scrolls of Wisdom

Greetings from Gem Cutter Robert!

Often a scroll is a rolled up piece of parchment containing a useful spell or treasure map. But that "scroll" could also be someone's journal filled with secrets, or a transcript of a group conversation, like this one.

Someone asked Johnn the following question about handling charmed PCs. So Johnn in turn put the question in front of others.

Here are their replies and tips, consolidated for easy reading.

The question (from Brady Boothe):

"On occasion, a character gets charmed (sometimes in combat). While I realize they aren't dominated and I can't tell them how to act, I find they tend to meta game and try to avoid doing anything that might negatively affect the rest of the party.

"For example, the fighter gets charmed by the enemy and now considers her a friend.

"She tells him to protect her from his insane companions.

"While I don't expect him to out-and-out fight them (they are still friends too), I would expect something more than a halfhearted, 'Hey guys, we should talk this out. I will just stand over here and watch for enemies whilst you talk.'

I've looked on forums, but the closest I have found is whether someone charmed would hurt their party if commanded to, or whether or not charming someone is an evil act. Neither help here as the problem is more meta game with a little rule lawyering.

Thanks."

The answers all fell within several categories of advice. There's no single "right" way to handle it, but using one or more of these approaches can certainly get the players on board.

1. Trust The Player To Run With It

This doesn't work with all players, or we wouldn't be having this conversation.

From Gerald Rose:

For me it depends on the player. Some players I know I can trust them to at least try to make a good go of it. I have had to make suggestions as to what might be appropriate, and I have not had to go as far to date, but if needed I would take control of the character.

I have had to threaten as much once or twice, and that has done the trick.

From Micah Weeks:

My players consider me an adversary but... they like it. I throw trouble at them at every turn and ask, "What do you do?" I set the trap, dangle the carrot, and put a trip-line out and give them the option how to respond. Typically that response is to fly away, so I end up hanging on and going where they take me.

From Dan Roth:

I only let this sort of thing happen to players who I know can handle it maturely, and that solves the problem.

2. Assist The Player By Giving Them Some Guidelines

Let them know what your expectations are.

From Micah Weeks:

I have handed out a decision tree before for mind-altering effects. While I'm away from my notes it ended up like:

Premise: Person Y is your best friend, your most valuable personal relationship in the entire universe, the absolutely epitome of everything you wish to have as a companion.

The worst thing you could ever think of doing is... Letting this person down, inadvertently or advertently causing this person harm or setting them up for failure.

•Am I aware of dangerous intentions to my best friend?

•Am I doing something to help minimize that risk?

•By doing X or not doing X am I putting my best friend in danger?

•If he's in danger, what am I going to do to save him?

The answers will change according to situations, but when I run into someone who plays the "I'll watch from over here" card, I hand them this list and then dispatch negatives/guilt/alignment penalties, etc. depending on the system, for not acting in character.

3. Pull Them Aside And Tell Them About The Charm In Secret

Get them on your side and let them shine.

From Michael Anderson:

When they were charmed, I would pull them aside and tell them they were charmed. I would tell them that we're not to explain this to the group, though their actions might show it.

Then I would ask them directly if they would take a certain course of action, i.e. parry any blows directed toward their charmer, etc. If they would not agree, I would bring up the previously noted behavior.

By pulling them away from the group and discussing options beforehand, I eliminated any possible peer pressure and "hint-giving."

This also had the effect of sending a strong sensation of dread through the other players left sitting at the table.

Especially once they started encountering vampires regularly and they couldn't be sure of the severity of the spell their party member was under. Sometimes this led to other party members disabling a charmed player out of fear he might be enslaved and prepared to attack the group.

From James Young:

I just hand them a note saying, "The dude just charmed you and you'll do anything he asks."

My players tend to mess with each other with gleeful abandon anyway, so giving them an excuse is excellent!

4. Keep It Meta

The opposite of secret. Everyone at the table knows the PC is charmed and roleplay their characters accordingly.

From Brian Barth:

When my characters are charmed I would play it like no one should hurt my buddy.

My characters would get really angry at their party and fight back. Always fun to take on your own group...

5. Reward Them For Playing Along

From AC Wilson:

I like to dangle XP a bit. My players know every scene is an opportunity for experience and bonus XP is available for various acts or actions and specifically good role playing.

If charmed, it behooves a player to act accordingly for the bonus experience they'll likely receive.

From Dan Roth:

Totally! My preferred system is Savage Worlds, so I use Bennies to enforce good behavior.

If you're not familiar with Savage Worlds, Bennies are tokens players can spend for re-rolls (except damage, in general).

From Adam Ostergren:

Stick and carrot. I apply temporary personality traits that can be used for bonuses by the player...or as a negative modifier when acting against them.

It tends to shape their actions.

And of course, always XP rewards for good roleplaying. (Which tends to encourage metagamers.)

Hopefully these ideas will help in this situation and others too. Until next time, keep on rolling.

- Gem Cutter Robert

Brief Word From Johnn

Thanks for putting these reader tips and scrolls together Gem Cutter!

One of the best sessions I've ever had involved charm.

I was co-GMing and we split the party.

My co-GM, Tony, charmed two of the PCS.

But first we put the characters in magic darkness.

Then the charm spell was cast.

The whole party knew something was up. We asked everyone to make saving throws but only cared about the actual targets.

So nobody knew who was charmed, if anyone.

But to really put the blender on high speed, we added a doppelganger.

When the lights came back on there were two barbarians, two charmed PCs and three normal PCs.

It was mayhem.

Each party was in a different room.

Tony and I would meet in the hall to synch up each round.

In the end, we reunited the group and the party and watched the PCs shred themselves to pieces out of terror and paranoia.

[Palathadric]

I would love to do that. It sounds like a fun RPing experience.

What? Host an NPC-only quest?

Alright, question for the role players out there - if a QM told you you were "possessed" or a shapeshifter knocked out your character and took over their body or something to that effect... would you seriously play the part? I'm asking because I have considered it for a quest before, but have never been able to figure out way to mechanically enforce it/make it fair/make it fun.

To a certain extent, isn't this how 'hexed' should be?

[Kintobor]

If you want an example of a PC getting hexed and being charmed to a degree or just straight up working against the party, (sorry for tooting my own horn) Karie has it in spades. Me and Endgame discussed for quite awhile what was going on. 56 is mainly option 1, while 70 manages to be both 1,3,4, and 5. Of course, Karie wasn't charmed in 70, but its basically the same thing. Backstabber.

[Cutcobra]

I could have sworn the Neptune Bomb was called Njorn Bomb.

[Endgame]

Of course, Karie wasn't charmed in 70, but its basically the same thing. Backstabber.

Charmed by Masson's high level, prestigous job class, and constant scowl, obviously.

[Duvors]

I could have sworn the Neptune Bomb was called Njorn Bomb.

The correct name is Njord Bomb.

[Scubacarrot]

CMP, I call shenanigans, my battle order is clearly different from the battle order in the round.

[Sandy]

I could have sworn the Neptune Bomb was called Njorn Bomb.

It was. I changed it.

[Tachyon]

It was. I changed it.

And for a moment, I thought I had the only Njord Bomb in existence.........

[Flipz]

And for a moment, I thought I had the only Njord Bomb in existence.........

You still have like 4 replies left for Tidings, maybe some of the old-named ones can be prepared especially for you.

[Palathadric]

Dek'ra manages to stun all the enemies and pocket some gold, however his diamond does nothing to the group of humanoids.

Am I missing something? Why doesn't it damage them?

[Kintobor]

Oh, pfft, I thought light didn't damage humanoids! I'll fix that. Thanks, Pala.

[Palathadric]

No problem, I always roll undead as being immune to darkness-elemental damage...oh, wait, I don't roll at all.

[CMP]

*Picture*

Viking Fort Door

Level 25 Door (No Elemental Strength/Weakness) *Counter-Striking* *Immune to Negative Effects & Instant Kill*

Health:

300/300

Special Damage:

Floor – This is a Door. Nothing happens.

Drops

: Nothing

Note:

Viking Fort Door does not get free hits. Bombs do x1.5 damage to Door. Destroying the Door will allow the party to flee or use Smokebombs to escape.

They're retaliating!

[Zepher]

I can't wait until a Dragoon gets trapped in a building where the lower floors are being stormed and has to burst out of a particularly resilient roof!

[swils]

"Fly me to safety, Arx!"

<Screw that, you're too damn heavy.>

Also, be sure to check the ceiling for traps.

[Flipz]

I can't wait until a Dragoon gets trapped in a building where the lower floors are being stormed and has to burst out of a particularly resilient roof!

You should probably spoilertag that, if you're talking about your finale Quest.

(Also, we cross-posted in 92. )