Heroica RPG General Discussion

[Kintobor]

If her last post was before my plan, and my plan indicated differently than her post, for good reasons, my plan being posted more than 24 hours before the round, that according to your standards makes her inactive, right?

Purpearl lives in a different timezone. When I hosted her, she tended to post rather late, and she was active. I don't see what the problem is.

[Scubacarrot]

No. She's been posting consistently.

She didn't change her actions to make sense with the plan?

[UsernameMDM]

I don't blame her in-character or out-of-character for looking out for herself and her best interests--because Guts and Hoke and the other high-level Heroes sure aren't.

What did Hoke do?!?! She's not even in my section!

[Waterbrick Down]

If her last post was before my plan, and my plan indicated differently than her post, for good reasons, my plan being posted more than 24 hours before the round, that according to your standards makes her inactive, right?

If her best interest is losing, you would be making sense, Flipz.

Inactive players are those who have not posted at all and given no excuse for their absence by abdicating responsibility to another player. Purpearl posted in the round, whether or not she listened to you or to Guts is a moot point as far as your plan over-ruling her action.

[Scubacarrot]

Purpearl lives in a different timezone. When I hosted her, she tended to post rather late, and she was active. I don't see what the problem is.

There's no problem, but fact is that the QMs until very recently figured that 24 hours would be enough time for everything, clearly it isn't, because look what keeps happening.

[Zepher]

Perhaps its your feeling that you are a leader and everyone else must comply with you that's hurting people in and out of the game.

EDIT: This game has ALWAYS taken place in 24 hours. If you need more time, you can petition for more time. In fact, we LET you do that, so it seems a silly thing to complain about now. That being said, if you'd like 72 hours, just say so, and we'll consider it!

Edited April 21, 2014 by Zepher

[Waterbrick Down]

What did Hoke do?!?! She's not even in my section!

Nothing specifically we're talking about in character interactions/perceptions and how they affect in character decisions.

[UsernameMDM]

Nothing specifically we're talking about in character interactions/perceptions and how they affect in character decisions.

Hmm...now trying to figure out how Hoke gave off bad vibes...

[Scubacarrot]

Inactive players are those who have not posted at all and given no excuse for their absence by abdicating responsibility to another player. Purpearl posted in the round, whether or not she listened to you or to Guts is a moot point as far as your plan over-ruling her action.

I disagree. Stating some words, then having the rest figure it out is not very active. It doesn't matter. But I think it would have gone better HAD Purpearl read my post and changed her actions accordingly. That's all. Stop trying to make it seem like i'm attacking everyone. I'm attacking the QMs, the rest of you are off the hook, for now.

[Brickdoctor]

If a Hero has a Smoke Bomb and uses it, the whole party flees; it's been ruled in the past that individual Heroes can't refuse to flee when one is thrown.

When?

The incident was in Quest 77, when Lord Duvors said he was going to throw a Smoke Bomb as the party was about to win a battle. I don't think any ruling ever came from Sandy other than that "If you do that, you'll probably never get chosen for a quest again."

I definitely don't think that Party Leader actions should ever override other PC's actions. Your fellow party members are your teammates, not your minions. This is an RPG, not a strategy game. Even in real life, a commander can give soldiers orders, and the soldiers still have a choice whether or not to follow them. And just like in real life, if the soldier doesn't obey, then there can be consequences (perhaps not as severe, but you get my point). We're all humans running this game, and we can make rational case-by-case decisions on how to deal with trolling; we don't always need to have rules that limit other players in order to minimize the opportunity for trolling.

[StickFig]

That's why the party leader's suggestions should overrule inactive players.

I agree that inactive players (but only inactive players) should be overruled by the party leader.

Your fellow party members are your teammates, not your minions.

Yes. Exactly.

This is an RPG, not a strategy game. Even in real life, a commander can give soldiers orders, and the soldiers still have a choice whether or not to follow them.

Even in real life, the commander has to take his subordinates' characteristics, tempers, and interpersonal relationships into account. And a commander who doesn't listen to his subordinates' suggestions is a fool.

EDIT: This game has ALWAYS taken place in 24 hours. If you need more time, you can petition for more time. In fact, we LET you do that, so it seems a silly thing to complain about now. That being said, if you'd like 72 hours, just say so, and we'll consider it!

No thanks, this is taking long enough already!

Hmm...now trying to figure out how Hoke gave off bad vibes...

Hahahah it's not so much bad vibes, it's that there are widely mixed levels. I think it's understandable if Purpearl and Matthias don't much care to be sacrificed (sorry Baradock) to keep higher level players alive, even if they are sort of useless at this point.

Edited April 21, 2014 by nstickney

[Scubacarrot]

Perhaps its your feeling that you are a leader and everyone else must comply with you that's hurting people in and out of the game.

I'm the party leader. I'm no leader anywhere else that you need to worry about. If that hurts your feelings, I refer to my post above. Don't make it seem like I attack you.

[Zepher]

No other party leader has ever petitioned to over-rule the actions of players.

[CMP]

There's no problem, but fact is that the QMs until very recently figured that 24 hours would be enough time for everything, clearly it isn't, because look what keeps happening.

Which is why we gave an additional 24 hours.

Everyone is taking this waaaaay too seriously. I've made some hilariously flawed plans in the past. The penultimate battle in Quest 30 nearly failed us the quest because of my plan. And I don't recall a single word against me out of character. In character, everyone was pissed, of course, but I had nearly screwed us over completely and yet nobody seemed overly upset about it. I know a lot is at stake, but above all else it's bugging me how unenjoyable this seems for everyone. A lot is on the line here. It's supposed to be a grueling final battle that you can later brag about. But it should still be reasonably fun, and I don't think whatever rulings or mechanics we include have the potential to sap all enjoyment out of everyone.

[Flipz]

Free hits were going to happen, because the enemies are stupdily strong, KO's were going to happen. I'd rather have a low level player knocked out than a lucky assassin that has a chance of knocking the strongest enemy out instantly, but you know.

I'll give you that the enemies are stupidly strong. But so what, that means low-level players exist for us higher-level people to walk all over and use as meatshields so we gain experience while they don't? Good to know, good to know, I'll have to pencil in some time to do that before my daily appointment to kick puppies and strangle homeless kittens. :sarcasm

What did Hoke do?!?! She's not even in my section!

What has Hoke done for the newbies, hmm? It's nothing specific, for you or anyone else, but neither time the low-levelers have interacted with the other Quests have anyone paid any real attention to them--it's always "hey new people, just go exist over there while Mom and Dad (i.e. Cinna+Dreyrugr and either Hoke+Nerwen or Guts+Haldor) talk." These are some of the most promising new players I've seen in a LONG time, and many of the Heroes act as if they don't even exist! I can't speak for out-of-character, maybe it's a roleplaying choice, but in-character it makes the high-level Heroes seem incredibly arrogant, and even off-model for some (read: Dyric).

[Scubacarrot]

I definitely don't think that Party Leader actions should ever override other PC's actions. Your fellow party members are your teammates, not your minions. This is an RPG, not a strategy game. Even in real life, a commander can give soldiers orders, and the soldiers still have a choice whether or not to follow them. And just like in real life, if the soldier doesn't obey, then there can be consequences (perhaps not as severe, but you get my point). We're all humans running this game, and we can make rational case-by-case decisions on how to deal with trolling; we don't always need to have rules that limit other players in order to minimize the opportunity for trolling.

I do not really agree, of course we are all humans, everyone's equal, even if they are bad (I'M JOKING GUYZ), and everyone should have equal input except for the party leader who has slightly more, but in any other sort of RPG, actions are decided on at the same time. Tabletop, Online Multiplayer, you get what I mean. That doesn't work here. It's impossible to really discuss actions because where otherwise exchanging several sentences takes seconds, here it can take a lot longer. If a player does not realize that their actions are going to have bad consequences for the team, that's a bad thing, but it's not hurting anything. It would be okay usually, but because there is an annoying trend for stupidly hard battles, that's a reaaaal issue that can have annoying consequences.

I think one thing everyone agrees on is that we want to win the battle. Unless there is some secret plan among certain members to take the bridge down that I am not aware of, in that case, I don't give the QMs most of the credit they deserve.

I'll give you that the enemies are stupidly strong. But so what, that means low-level players exist for us higher-level people to walk all over and use as meatshields so we gain experience while they don't? Good to know, good to know, I'll have to pencil in some time to do that before my daily appointment to kick puppies and strangle homeless kittens. :sarcasm

I was going to make sure everyone would get rezzed. I even said so in my Plan.

[Zepher]

I have full confidence that this battle is more than winnable. You have a strong party. Your fellow heroes have an equally strong party that can come help you at any point. It has been a trend (myself included, very recently, as Scuba can attest to) to deem a battle "too challenging" before it being over, or half-way done, or even started.

[Scubacarrot]

I'm not having a go at Purpearl. She didn't follow my plan. I don't like it. I wish the mechanics allowed for it to have gone differently. But they don't. That's the end of it. Screw you guys and you looking behind everything for me attacking people.

I have full confidence that this battle is more than winnable. You have a strong party. Your fellow heroes have an equally strong party that can come help you at any point. It has been a trend (myself included, very recently, as Scuba can attest to) to deem a battle "too challenging" before it being over, or half-way done, or even started.

You were whining about a battle where you didn't take a single scratch and won in a few moves. And if you were less lucky you would have been fine in every scenario anyway. Crybaby.

[UsernameMDM]

What has Hoke done for the newbies, hmm? It's nothing specific, for you or anyone else, but neither time the low-levelers have interacted with the other Quests have anyone paid any real attention to them--it's always "hey new people, just go exist over there while Mom and Dad (i.e. Cinna+Dreyrugr and either Hoke+Nerwen or Guts+Haldor) talk." These are some of the most promising new players I've seen in a LONG time, and many of the Heroes act as if they don't even exist! I can't speak for out-of-character, maybe it's a roleplaying choice, but in-character it makes the high-level Heroes seem incredibly arrogant, and even off-model for some (read: Dyric).

What should he have done when a group of "strange" heroes are thrust onto the scene in a middle of a fight and then disappear. The two groups on their first meeting may have spent less than an hr or so together in Heroica time, and that involved fighting. Not sure how many conversations you think you should have when you're slinging spells and steel. And as far as that situation goes, sadly, the lower level heroes have not produced much, and not because of the higher level PCs.

Edited April 21, 2014 by UsernameMDM

[Zepher]

Yeah, I said it was a trend I was a part of. Most of the trends I argue against from a QM stand-point I partake in from a player perspective. You'd think I'd learn, but I don't seem to.

And we are probably over defensive - we DON'T want it to seem like you're getting away with attacking another player, but probably you weren't and we were over reacting. Sometimes stripping someone of choice looks like an attack, but I don't know if it WAS in this case, I just ASSUMED it - which, as a famous saying goes, makes an @ss of me.

As for the mechanics, I understand your point, but I don't think Purpearl wanted to change her actions, and I do think you should have planned around them. They were there when you made your plan, I don't know why you assumed she would change them, and I think it was an unfair assumption to make. You are in charge of only yourself.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Zepher

[Scubacarrot]

What has Hoke done for the newbies, hmm? It's nothing specific, for you or anyone else, but neither time the low-levelers have interacted with the other Quests have anyone paid any real attention to them--it's always "hey new people, just go exist over there while Mom and Dad (i.e. Cinna+Dreyrugr and either Hoke+Nerwen or Guts+Haldor) talk." These are some of the most promising new players I've seen in a LONG time, and many of the Heroes act as if they don't even exist! I can't speak for out-of-character, maybe it's a roleplaying choice, but in-character it makes the high-level Heroes seem incredibly arrogant, and even off-model for some (read: Dyric).

Guts for one incredibly appreciates his horse slaying minions.

Seriously though, because someone is going to make it seem like I take things seriously and hate everyone and I am evil and a big bad bully. You're all good. Except the QMs. Screw those guys.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Scubacarrot

[StickFig]

I was going to make sure everyone would get rezzed. I even said so in my Plan.

Since everything has gone according to plan this far....

...it's always "hey new people, just go exist over there while Mom and Dad talk."

Yeah, I don't know that it's been that bad, but I know I've felt pretty hesitant to speak up just on my own and being ignored repeatedly doesn't help.

And as far as that situation goes, sadly, the lower level heroes have not produced much, and not because of the higher level PCs.

It's hard to produce much when your arrows only do 4 damage and every target has 5, 10, 20 SP.

Guts for one incredibly appreciates his horse slaying minions.

Hooray for horse-slaying minions!

[Flipz]

What should he have done when a group of "strange" heroes are thrust onto the scene in a middle of a fight and then disappear. The two groups on their first meeting may have spent less than an hr or so together in Heroica time, and that involved fighting. Not sure how many conversations you think you should have when you're slinging spells and steel. And as far as that situation goes, sadly, the lower level heroes have not produced much, and not because of the higher level PCs.

Concern? Compassion? A thought even? When you go back and read through everything, you'll see how much they've produced, and what a travesty it is that everyone seems to be ignoring them.

[Scubacarrot]

Since everything has gone according to plan this far....

Hey! Don't make Guts send you under the unstoppable Free Hit train next. If you don't run away, that is.

[Kintobor]

Concern? Compassion? A thought even? When you go back and read through everything, you'll see how much they've produced, and what a travesty it is that everyone seems to be ignoring them.

New players, keep this in mind for later, and screw the other heroes on the trilogy over when they need your help, or when you get really cool loot and they want to buy it off you.