Heroica RPG General Discussion

[Flipz]

Kinto must have given Thormy the wrong cloak. He's supposed to be wearing my Shadeaux Cloak, not the other one.

[swils]

Am I missing something? Heh

I was gonna hold my OoC inventory correction until my next post, just to keep things clean.

[Flipz]

My word, I didn't realize it was SP: 4 at the start. I thought I recall it being SP:1 or 2, but that must have been a weaker version or something. That is devilishly powerful in the right hands. Kintobor, why didn't you take my on your quest?

No, really, one of these days I'm going to have to get on one of your quests.

When Sandy made it, it was SP:1; I used three Bright Polish to bring it up to SP:4.

Speaking of which, I'm always on the lookout for Bright Polish--I can make it worth your while, especially now that Sandy's set a fair value for it.

Am I missing something? Heh

I was gonna hold my OoC inventory correction until my next post, just to keep things clean.

Check the name of the Cloak that Arthur's currently wearing.

(It was a joke--or rather, a very terrible pun. )

Edited July 27, 2014 by Flipz

[swils]

Something something deception and cape vs cloak

[StickFig]

Speaking of which, I'm always on the lookout for Bright Polish...

Who isn't?!

[Flipz]

Who isn't?!

Actually, Bright Polish is incredibly inefficient for use on shields, and the limitations on Artifacts (artifact must already have some SP, the Artifact has to be suitable for your class) means it's risky to use with a non-universal Artifact--not to mention the fact that new Artifacts drop all the time and it's likely you'll find something better than what you have while on a Quest. I'm in a unique position in that 1.) I get 2-3 SP out of a single jar of polish, and 2.) my Artifact will follow me to any Class I decide to take barring Minstrel (which I won't be doing anyhow). Pie's probably the only other player for whom Bright Polish is an ideal option (with the Galactic Armor being suitable for all classes and it already being good enough [sP:6, +6 max HP, and immunity to Doomed and a bunch of other stuff] that he's not likely to find something better). Maybe Docken with his Mail (although he doesn't plan to switch classes until Mime, which means it's just as effective to upgrade his shield with Gold and it's a lot easier for him to do so) or Nagure with his fur coat, but that's about it--there's not a terrible lot of great SP-granting items that will also follow you through multiple classes.

[swils]

aka "blame Sandy for not checking his item creation process for abuse issues strategic advantages"

Edited July 27, 2014 by swils

[StickFig]

...there's not a terrible lot of great SP-granting items that will also follow you through multiple classes.

So, like, Robe of the Archmagi?

[Brickdoctor]

Maybe Docken with his Mail (although he doesn't plan to switch classes until Mime, which means it's just as effective to upgrade his shield with Gold and it's a lot easier for him to do so)

Mimes can use shields, anyways. So, yeah, no reason for me not to just upgrade the shield, at least until shield upgrades become more expensive than Bright Polish. (How much is that worth? I didn't see where they were sold.)

[Zepher]

I'm home all! So updates will be coming tomorrow, and no more fun in the sun for Zepher. Only work and Heroica!

[Flipz]

Not really. RotAM is only usable by one Expert Class, which isn't exactly ideal.

Mimes can use shields, anyways. So, yeah, no reason for me not to just upgrade the shield, at least until shield upgrades become more expensive than Bright Polish. (How much is that worth? I didn't see where they were sold.)

Quest 100; they sell for 100 gold plus any "convenience fees" the seller charges.

[Brickdoctor]

So, like, Robe of the Archmagi?

Most of the Marketplace artifacts are ones that you'll buy because they provide a decent bonus, you don't need the Gold for something else, and you have an empty artifact slot. Most of them end up being replaced by something you get in a quest or buy from another player.

[Duvors]

Unless you're Aragorn. Then it's perfectly fine.

That scene from the film is, in the end, the reason I hate Peter Jackson,

[Brickdoctor]

Quest 100; they sell for 100 gold plus any "convenience fees" the seller charges.

Oh, that's cheaper than my shield upgrades.

[Duvors]

Forgive me for harping on this, I'm really only saying it because I want this plotline to redeem itself before it's too late. I considered just PMing you, but I feel that saying this here will allow others to offer their own takes on what I'm saying, so the points of mine that are accurate can be reinforced while the ones that aren't can be corrected by writers who are a lot cleverer than me.

I think that's the big problem with The Regret plotline, though, is that it doesn't seem like we can do anything--when we try, we get beaten up, beaten up, or threatened with being beaten up. There doesn't seem like there's a point in playing, because nothing can happen until The Plot says so--or more appropriately, Only The Author Can Save Them Now. It seems like you were trying to go for You Can't Thwart Stage One (which worked rather well in 48 and with 79 and 86) but ended up with Strong As They Need To Be--no matter how far the Heroes progress in experience and stats, the Appeal To Force over the player characters (which is dicey as-is) is Enforced even when it doesn't make sense.

Put it another way: compare Regret's (or any of his major minions') response to/attitude towards Arthur or Johon or any of the characters he's met more than once between the first and last times he's encountered them. You could almost literally swap the two conversations, only changing the direct references to a character's class--there's no development, no acknowledgement that anything has changed. No matter what we do, The Regret keeps Moving the Goalposts so the exact same scenario always plays out: "the ragtag bunch of misfits struggles against the impossibly unbeatable foe, and against all odds they win the fight but ultimately it doesn't matter because the villain had planned for every eventuality, even though they claimed the Heroes winning was impossible."

Basically, when every choice is a Morton's Fork, and trying to Take A Third Option is punished, the only reasonable remaining response is "Just Get It Over With," which in this game generally means the players have stopped having fun.

Again, just my opinion, but hopefully it will help you understand better where I'm coming from.

You have received the Pirate Yoda Seal of Approval, good work.

[Zepher]

I'll also talk about the Regret for a bit because I'd like to (before I try to take him down). I don't have as much to say as Flipz, mostly because I agree with 80% of what he said, and also because who ever has as much to say as Flipz?

I have spoken about my issues with the Regret before, but they're actually not about his evilness, or the lack of ability to "do anything". The Regret is indeed unbeatable up until the finale, we as players all know that (or assume we know that, could be cool to subvert that some time with a "Big Bad" who dies before the finale, but tut's tangential). His smugness doesn't bother me. His dismissiveness of heroes doesn't bother me, and though Flipz hates it, if he really does view heroes as fleas (which I think is dope) his non-varied interactions are actually a strong character point.

My main issue, as I've pointed out before, is two-fold. For creatures he (apparently rightly, what with his immeasurable power) believes are fleas, he sure talks to them a lot. He seems to really want heroes to think he's bad @ss, when really, I personally try very hard to impress ants I find on the side of the road. I think it would have fixed a lot of the issues (the most recent example, why the hell did he visit the Hall if he doesn't give a rat's big behind about us) if he treated us with as much disinterest as we treat ants. He's aware the heroes exist, sure, but he's aware that cheese is around too. I think this would have served to keep him in the background, so we wouldn't run into him so often and know we couldn't beat him, and would also serve so that he didn't always plan for the heroes arrival and actions. It's really like Flipz's final link - why'd he plan for the heroes to complete things if he has such a low opinion of them? Wouldn't it be easier to plan for their failure?

I think that it may all be mote coming from me, because I followed a similar structure with Wren (the game necessitates it, in many ways), but I think there are better ways to hide it, that's all. The Regret as a character doesn't bother me in the least - I think of Aaron the Moor or Iago or Voldemort or Betty Draper, characters who are evil (okay, Betty Draper's not flat out evil) or off not because of one thing, but because of so many indefinable slightly askew things in their DNA or their fated path. I think those characters are awesome. But I think the Regret walks a weird line between that and Loki from Avengers who was a weirdly powerless super villain who craved the creatures who he called ants to look up to him. He can't be both.

Also, like I said earlier, the Regret's immense power undermines a large other number of characters. If Karie kills him, can we assume she is better than the Sand Queen? Hopefully not. The Veterans (and the foes they eventually are up against) should be mythical. Not because the Regret shouldn't be awesome, but because we all have the share the playground so no one should hog the coolest and best toys for themselves.

So it looks like I do have a lot to say. And this isn't just dishing on the Regret, even though it looks like that. We're all trying to learn together. These are more general thoughts on character in general. I love Joss Whedon, and I love the character of Loki, and I even love Tom Hiddleston, but if I ever met them I would tell them Loki was the part of the movie that really dragged Avengers down - again not because of the character, but because of the way he interacted with the other characters and the story itself. Also, why were there Aliens? Why weren't they further explained? Why'd they need Loki? How were we to think Loki was a real threat? I have a lot of issues with Avengers.

[StickFig]

Most of the Marketplace artifacts ... end up being replaced by something you get in a quest or buy from another player.

Hmmmmmm.... I mentioned Robe of the Archmagi precisely because it doesn't seem to have fallen into that category for a lot of players - even very, very high level ones. For instance, right now it's being used by Nyx, Namyrra, Ellaria, Heckz, Thalion, Amorith, Amma, and Sylph. The only character who has one and isn't wearing it is Nerwen. Perhaps what you're saying is true, but there aren't a lot of caster artefacts (with SP especially)?

I have a lot of issues with Avengers.

I'm home all! So updates will be coming tomorrow, and no more fun in the sun for Zepher. Only work and Heroica!

Hooray! Welcome back, Zeph - eagerly awaiting in #102!

[Flipz]

Perhaps what you're saying is true, but there aren't a lot of caster artefacts (with SP especially)?

I suspect this to be the case--it's great for Advanced Classes, but not so much at the Expert level. I'd actually love to see more artifacts like the Sorcerer talismans that grant special abilities at the cost of extra Ether, and/or some kind of Ether-based source of SP.

[Endgame]

My computer just wet the bed. May have to postpone ER, but can still do smaller, picture-less posts with my WiiU.

[Khorne]

Would it be possible to add a link to the Heroica Wiki in the Library? I always have to google it, because I can't remember the proper link . It'd be easier to find for new players and outsiders, too, since now the link is burried somewhere in the General Discussion topic. It's been a while since I last worked with a Wiki, so my already rusty skills with the format have only gotten rustier. Still, I'll see what I can do. Is it okay if I added a page about Värtland like the ones you did about Baltarok and Dastan (but with less info, of course) or is that not done because it hasn't been featured in an official quest yet and all information would be considered not canon?

Oh, my nickname on Wikia is ElJay, by the way. Just in case you might wonder once you see that name pop up .

[Lind Whisperer]

Is it okay if I added a page about Värtland like the ones you did about Baltarok and Dastan (but with less info, of course) or is that not done because it hasn't been featured in an official quest yet and all information would be considered not canon?

It depends on the information, I suppose. I'm writing a few short pages for re-posting there on the Munchkins, and the Forest of the Blue Pools, and the Ethereal Deck, but as they're specifically my own creation, and the Forest does not as of yet have an official location, I'm not sure if they could really be considered in the same group as Värtland - unless Värtland's your own personal creation.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Lind Whisperer

[Sandy]

Would it be possible to add a link to the Heroica Wiki in the Library? I always have to google it, because I can't remember the proper link . It'd be easier to find for new players and outsiders, too, since now the link is burried somewhere in the General Discussion topic. It's been a while since I last worked with a Wiki, so my already rusty skills with the format have only gotten rustier. Still, I'll see what I can do. Is it okay if I added a page about Värtland like the ones you did about Baltarok and Dastan (but with less info, of course) or is that not done because it hasn't been featured in an official quest yet and all information would be considered not canon?

I'll add a link to the wiki to the Index.

Please feel free to add in whatever information you see fit for the game - others can always edit it if there's some glaring mistakes in it.

[Zepher]

Yes, of course we will continue to expand the lands!

102, update coming! Sets have been built. It's insane that we take hours to build sets, and then you only get to see them for a post or two. It's a good thing we like building!

[Sandy]

It's insane that we take hours to build sets, and then you only get to see them for a post or two. It's a good thing we like building!

I know, right?!

I really love building the sets and the figs for these quests, but sometimes I feel like I'm spending too much time and effort on what will only show in a few shots. That's why I add photos of scenes that don't really need them - just to give the sets more screentime.

[Zepher]

I think you put in even more effort than me! I build what I'd call "sets", you know, backdrops for the scene. I think yours are closer to MOCs than mine. And they are, of course, lovely.