Heroica RPG General Discussion

[Flipz]

B&P, you do realize that the odds of winning the dice game are 1 in 1,296? Even for such an overpowered Artifact, that's unfair.

[JimBee]

B&P, you do realize that the odds of winning the dice game are 1 in 1,296? Even for such an overpowered Artifact, that's unfair.

I'd rather not see the item at all, so I think those odds are very fair. It's not like the heroes are forced to give up their gold - it's a completely optional part of the quest.

[Brickdoctor]

I wouldn't call the game setup 'unfair' as much as I'd call it 'unsportsmanlike' or even 'trolling,' or say that it was breaking some unwritten rule. It just seems wrong to tease players with an extremely powerful item — one which I don't think Sandy wants dropped anymore — and then make it nigh-impossible to actually acquire.

[Bricksandparts]

If that's how gambling worked, I think casinos would all have been sued. The game was approved by Sandy, and although it may be considered unfair, it is completely optional. I wanted to offer the possibility, and although tempting, it is completely a gamble, yet possible.

[Flipz]

I wouldn't call the game setup 'unfair' as much as I'd call it 'unsportsmanlike' or even 'trolling,' or say that it was breaking some unwritten rule. It just seems wrong to tease players with an extremely powerful item — one which I don't think Sandy wants dropped anymore — and then make it nigh-impossible to actually acquire.

If that's how gambling worked, I think casinos would all have been sued.

You mean you're saying they shouldn't be? Moreover, I'm fairly certain that there are laws applying to the odds of things like slot machines--I'm pretty sure that at LEAST the odds are required to be posted, and it's possible that there's laws limiting how improbable the odds are allowed to be because of situations exactly like these.

If you don't want to drop the thing, don't tease the players with it. They've been through enough on this Quest.

[Sandy]

The game was approved by Sandy, and although it may be considered unfair, it is completely optional.

It was approved on the condition that it would be nigh impossible to get the item.

Quit your whining, Flipz, you're not even on the quest yourself!

[Zepher]

I've got to agree. Sometimes the world isn't particularly fair or sportsman like. There are haves, and have nots. So be it. We are trying to create events found in the world, and not all events are pleasant.

[Brickdoctor]

I've got to agree. Sometimes the world isn't particularly fair or sportsman like. There are haves, and have nots. So be it. We are trying to create events found in the world, and not all events are pleasant.

I agree that the world doesn't always follow the unwritten rules of sportsmanship, but this is a (fairly) casual RPG, and we don't need to recreate every aspect of the real world — I'm all for more realism, but only up to the point where it's still interesting and fun for the players to work with. I admit that I've done no research on the subject, but intentionally recreating something that leads to a frustrating and annoying gameplay experience for players seems like bad game design to me.

I'm not saying that what Bricksandparts has incorporated should be changed or removed or deemed illegal, and if QMs want to do that in the future, I'm not saying that any rules should be put into place to limit them. But this just doesn't seem like a decent thing to do, to me. Yes, sometimes players of games break the unwritten rules of sportsmanship, but that doesn't make it the right thing to do.

[joeshmoe554]

Moreover, I'm fairly certain that there are laws applying to the odds of things like slot machines--I'm pretty sure that at LEAST the odds are required to be posted, and it's possible that there's laws limiting how improbable the odds are allowed to be because of situations exactly like these.

It changes from location to location, but for the most part there is always a minimum payback required for the jurisdiction. If I recall correctly, Nevada has an 80% minimum payback on slots with an exception made for classic mechanical slots. There's also laws on the minimum odds for the top advertised prize, usually somewhere around 25 or 35 million to one. Considering the first gambling game in Heroica was Triple Magic with a payback of 50%, I think rigged games are an element of the world.

Also, I ran the numbers when B&P originally posted the game and I calculated the average cost of the loaded die around 1312.04 with an average of 142 games to win the die, and winning 5 gold in about 22 of those 142. I had originally misunderstood the rules (I thought a 4 & 5 would fail when it actually doesn't) and the true odds are more likely than that.

[Tachyon]

I swear that this dice game is the biggest money trap in the game.

[Endgame]

It's also worth noting that slot machines sometimes have stickers that read "winnings void at owner's discretion" and such, so it really isn't all that bad.

Besides, even without the gamble attached, 1300 isn't a terrible price for such an artifact... although I'd preferif it was mythril and not a Lucky Die.

[UsernameMDM]

B&P, you do realize that the odds of winning the dice game are 1 in 1,296? Even for such an overpowered Artifact, that's unfair.

Seems the odds were in her favor. Fortune favors the bold!

[Palathadric]

Hoke announces his presence at the door to make sure the room is not in use.

Proof that Hoke really is one of the more intelligent heroes around.

[Bricksandparts]

Seems the odds were in her favor. Fortune favors the bold!

I think she was just really, really, really lucky.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Bricksandparts

[UsernameMDM]

I think she was just really, really, really lucky.

Well, now she obviously will always be lucky, at least if she has the Loaded Die equipped.

[JimBee]

Well damn, looks like Rogues could use another nerf, huh?

[Flipz]

Mizuki's got it made; she's an Assassin with Sticky Gloves, a Loaded Die, and a Quickdraw Quiver, she can farm for days. When she hits Level 30, she can add her Death Mask to that and be a significant killing force.

Although I have to admit, I never expected the die to actually be won...

[Endgame]

The obvious solution is to nerf rogues,

So she's permanently Hastened and Lucky, then?

[Bricksandparts]

I guess so, but I really never expected the game to be won. But Flipz, remember that it was a higher chance of winning considering the party could also roll a 4 or 5, so it was 1/1296. Still amazing it was won that quickly though

[Brickdoctor]

...and that's another excellent reason why you should never tease players with ridiculously good items at nigh-impossible chances, because it addition to being unsportsmanlike, it can backfire and now you've dropped an item that wasn't ever supposed to be dropped again.

[Bricksandparts]

I think that the quick-draw quiver should be limited to ranged weapons though, that might balance it out. Although then she will just fight from the back row as well...

[Brickdoctor]

I think that the quick-draw quiver should be limited to ranged weapons though, that might balance it out. Although then she will just fight from the back row as well...

I hardly think it right for other artifacts to be nerfed in order to balance out the result of your dropping this artifact.

[UsernameMDM]

I wouldn't change a thing at this point. Mizuki played the game and won.

[Zepher]

I absolutely agree. Before everyone was complaining it was too hard, now everyone is complaining about it having been too easy. Just sounds like complaining at that point.

[joeshmoe554]

I guess so, but I really never expected the game to be won. But Flipz, remember that it was a higher chance of winning considering the party could also roll a 4 or 5, so it was 1/1296. Still amazing it was won that quickly though

If I understand the rules correctly, then 6645 would be a winning combination since the player passed 4 rounds without 1-3 or a second 4 or 5. If that is the case then the odds are around 1/62 for winning the die. Considering that, winning in 40 games isn't too unreasonable.