Heroica RPG General Discussion

[UsernameMDM]

You're acting like a virtual game with virtual featuring numbers and elements is supposed to make real world economic sense.

The original post had elemental decks for sale I believe, and I doubt the next tournament will be like this one. Plus I think it would be great for PCs to have the option to customize their decks right off the bat.

[Lind Whisperer]

You're acting like a virtual game with virtual featuring numbers and elements is supposed to make real world economic sense.

Being virtual in this case, doesn't actually effect much, if anything. They follow the exact same rules of supply and demand as real life cards* would.

The original post had elemental decks for sale I believe, and I doubt the next tournament will be like this one. Plus I think it would be great for PCs to have the option to customize their decks right off the bat.

Decks, not cards. There was no guarantee that you'd get any one card, just that your hand would only be from one element(and possibly above a certain power, I'd have to double check).

*Speaking of real life, I wonder if anyone here knows any card printers? It would be awesome if the QMs started a Kickstarter(or something like one) for a real-world Decamon print run.

[UsernameMDM]

Again, you're going by the this tournament. Never know what's going to happen in the next one. Just something to consider. I'm all for PCs having the option of buying a random deck, a theme deck or creating their own deck with singles. Would add a bit more strategy to the game.

[CMP]

Again, you're going by the this tournament. Never know what's going to happen in the next one. Just something to consider. I'm all for PCs having the option of buying a random deck, a theme deck or creating their own deck with singles. Would add a bit more strategy to the game.

What's keeping a person from just buying the best cards and cleaning everyone out? The element of randomness offers some balance here at least.

[UsernameMDM]

What's keeping a person from just buying the best cards and cleaning everyone out?

Caps of some type: nothing over a certain power? I will let Sandy figure out the rules, but singles would be great.

The element of randomness offers some balance here at least.

True, but this tournament offered differing levels of decks, therefore negating some randomness.

Speaking of wiping people out, I wonder how those with Decamon Drafter class will fare in the next tournament. IF it's a year or so away, that's a lot of time to build up a deck through the Decamodifier...

Edited January 15, 2015 by UsernameMDM

[Zepher]

Yeah, I agree it has to remain at least somewhat random. Buy cards you want off of other people.

I thought the tournament was alright, but agree game mechanics need tweaking a bit. Going first was indeed a severe dis-advantage. We all figured it out too, anyone who played a card first always threw it away. Maybe if people revealed their hand before the match and then played cards simultaneously? I don't know, might be more fun guessing the order that the opponent may play in, especially as they narrow down. But I know that'd be more work, and I know it was dismissed beforehand.

What's more, I think card acquisition was maybe too easy (Pie, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this). Pie came out of the tournament with a plethora of 8s and 9s. I think he played smart, and I know he put gold into it, and I think he deserves a good deck, but he has an absurdly strong deck at this point, and a very versatile one. When he swept someone, particularly a strong opponent, his deck grew by leaps and bounds. It also made the final battle more of a crap shoot, since the decks were so large at that point that no one knew what might happen. What if when you beat someone you only got to pick one of the cards you won against to keep? It'd be more fair to both the winner and the loser, in my opinion, and would make it harder to be impossibly good so quickly. I mean, what does Pie have to do at this point but cross his fingers to out-element a level 10?

[Scubacarrot]

I don't think your suggestion is a good idea, Zepher. The thing that I think is good is that a low level (as in low cards) player can get rewarded even for losing if they steal some good cards (with elemental modifiers). That keeps players from just throwing down their highest cards and doing whatever.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Scubacarrot

[Waterbrick Down]

10's are winnable through the use of a decamodifier, plus I doubt any Drafter's will be entering next year's contest as one of the main prizes is the class. As an outside observer I'd agree that something needs to be done about the first play, NPC's were really unnecessary, something should be done about the Etherial 1, and potentially allow people to buy more than 5 cards to give a little more variety in strategy, though I believe the cap helped keep some things equal.

[Scubacarrot]

Doesn't the five card limit directly cause the first player disadvantage to exist? Surely as decks get larger, it gets more equal? (or less unequal) Player one has basically 3 blind plays and 2 reaction plays. Player 2 has 2 blind plays, 2 reaction plays and their last card. The more you know what cards player 1 has, the easier it is to react to it with your cards and make the last card more than a blind card. I don't think doing it as suggested before, player 2 plays 3 cards at once, will do much, instead it will give the advantage to player 1.

I still think a card that has an effect is not a bad idea, for example: Trickster card: This card always loses, but for the rest of the game, low numbers trump high numbers.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Scubacarrot

[Zepher]

I don't think your suggestion is a good idea, Zepher. The thing that I think is good is that a low level (as in low cards) player can get rewarded even for losing if they steal some good cards (with elemental modifiers). That keeps players from just throwing down their highest cards and doing whatever.

I agree, actually. My suggestion was a bad fix, and the benefit of the old system that you high light was one of my favorite parts of the game. I stand by the problem, though.

I also like the idea of a trickster card, though I imagine that anyone would always play it as their first move if they've picked low level cards for their hand, and screw over the other person. It would also always switch owners at the end of a match.

[Lind Whisperer]

I still think a card that has an effect is not a bad idea, for example: Trickster card: This card always loses, but for the rest of the game, low numbers trump high numbers.

How would that work? I'm not trying to shoot it down, I'm honestly curious. Would it have any effects on elemental strength, or just numerically?

One other problem I can see, is just how much would it really strengthen anyone's deck? If it automatically loses, that means you have to win three sets(or tie two, win two), just to win.

My Flip Card gets around that by being a card you play in addition to the card being played* - perhaps the same would work for the Trickster Card? So, instead of automatically losing your first hand, you either win or lose it normally.

*Of course, the Flip Card has it's own problems, namely which elemental strengths get flipped to which...

[Emjajoas]

The Flip card won't work, considering it would mean having to play two cards at once, unless I misunderstand your theory behind it.

[UsernameMDM]

Anyone in the Fields of Glory right now: I will pay at least 150 gold for a Decamodifier.

[Lind Whisperer]

The Flip card won't work, considering it would mean having to play two cards at once, unless I misunderstand your theory behind it.

That's the idea - the Flip Card by itself is a special card, with no value or power. It is played once, in conjunction with any other card, modifying just that card by inverting that card's elemental power. Here's an example hand:

Rando M'cardplayer plays Dark: 4, with Flip Card = Light: 4

Randa M'cardplayer responds with...

It's not a card on its own - you can't play a Flip Card by itself. It's an additional card that you can add to your five cards, that you use to invert any one of the original five cards' elements. If you loose the hand you inverted, you loose the Flip Card also.

[Bricksandparts]

My thoughts:

1. Instead of becoming the "opposite" element - which doesn't really make any sense and is impossible, considering there are 9 non-etheral types - I'd recommend that it's strengths become weaknesses and weaknesses become strengths.

2. Since you only play 5 cards, how would this really work? Realistically, your opponent should at least know how many flip cards you're using. My recommendation is that - assuming flip cards are added - you can have some maximum number of special cards and that other special cards are added. As an example, a luck card which gives the associated card a 50% chance of tying in the case that it'd normally lose.

As an example:

Dark 4:

Trumps: Flying, Plant

Trumped by: Fiery, Luminous

Dark 4 (inverted):

Trumps: Fiery, Luminous

Trumped by: Flying, Plant

[Lind Whisperer]

My thoughts:

1. Instead of becoming the "opposite" element - which doesn't really make any sense and is impossible, considering there are 9 non-etheral types - I'd recommend that it's strengths become weaknesses and weaknesses become strengths.

Excellent suggestion.

2. Since you only play 5 cards, how would this really work? Realistically, your opponent should at least know how many flip cards you're using. My recommendation is that - assuming flip cards are added - you can have some maximum number of special cards and that other special cards are added. As an example, a luck card which gives the associated card a 50% chance of tying in the case that it'd normally lose.

I agree - there should be a cap to how many additional 'booster' cards you can use.

[Duvors]

That's the idea - the Flip Card by itself is a special card, with no value or power. It is played once, in conjunction with any other card, modifying just that card by inverting that card's elemental power. Here's an example hand:

It's not a card on its own - you can't play a Flip Card by itself. It's an additional card that you can add to your five cards, that you use to invert any one of the original five cards' elements. If you loose the hand you inverted, you loose the Flip Card also.

Like many things in this world, cool, but needlessly complicated.

As others have said, I liked the tournament and would love to see it done again, but not as the Grogmas event, in fact I'd prefer it if the Grogmas event was something like tidings, or even the original event itself, something to do with giving, this doesn't really capture the feeling.

[Asphalt]

I think making trick cards makes things a little needlessly complicated.

[Bricksandparts]

Assuming this becomes a thing, there are still many unanswered questions and card ideas to be had.

* What is the max number of boosters per hand?

* Can you use multiple, different boosters, in conjunction with a card? If so, what is the max?

* Must you choose the boosters before the match starts or can you choose to use them mid-play? If so, can you use boosters you get mid-play from your opponent?

* What is the ruling for how you lose boosters?

Some ideas for boosters:

Standoff: Wins a play if it ties. If both players use the card, the play remains a tie.

Scrambler: Causes you to automatically lose the play, but forces the opponent's next card to be chosen at random. (just realized that this card would be automatically lost if played with Lind's current idea...)

Edited January 16, 2015 by Bricksandparts

[Lind Whisperer]

Assuming this becomes a thing, there are still many unanswered questions and card ideas to be had.

* What is the max number of boosters per hand?

I'd vote for a maximum of 2 boosters per hand. Just enough to keep it interesting. Of course, I can see reasons for going up to five, but I think that should be the limit.

* Can you use multiple, different boosters, in conjunction with a card? If so, what is the max?

I'd vote against this, at least until after we've seen in action how single booster cards affect games.

* Must you choose the boosters before the match starts or can you choose to use them mid-play? If so, can you use boosters you get mid-play from your opponent?

I was envisioning picking your boosters before the match starts, but not which cards you intend to use them with. You can't use boosters you win mid-play from your opponent, any more than you can use cards.

* What is the ruling for how you lose boosters?

If you play a booster with a card, that booster follows that card. If the opponent wins the card, the opponent wins the booster. If you tie, you keep the booster. If you win, you keep the booster.

Some ideas for boosters:

Standoff: Wins a play if it ties. If both players use the card, the play remains a tie. (just realized that this card would be automatically lost if played with Lind's current idea...)

Scrambler: Causes you to automatically lose the play, but forces the opponent's next card to be chosen at random.

I really like Standoff, but I'm not sure how Scrambler could be put effectively into play without having to rely on your opponent to be honest(not that I don't trust the other players here, but it's the same issue that came up with playing hands against other players - only amplified).

[Bricksandparts]

but I'm not sure how Scrambler could be put effectively into play without having to rely on your opponent to be honest(not that I don't trust the other players here, but it's the same issue that came up with playing hands against other players - only amplified).

The same way PvP matches have been taken care of. The host of the match, who knows both decks, would random-generate a number to find which card the player used. Realistically, I don't know how this'd work in real life, although these cards are supposed to have at least some actual magic power, based on the decamon drafter and decamodifier, so... I guess it works out.

[CMP]

That's needlessly complicating a simple, fun game.

[Lind Whisperer]

The same way PvP matches have been taken care of. The host of the match, who knows both decks, would random-generate a number to find which card the player used.

Excellent. I'm fully behind Scrambler, now.

That's needlessly complicating a simple, fun game.

I'm not arguing that it's making it a little more complicated, but that's the fun of it - learning how to play things simply, and then increasing the complexity as you go along.

[Flipz]

That's needlessly complicating a simple, fun game.

Agreed. If we keep adding in tricks and gimmicks, we may as well just run regular Heroica battles instead.

I still think that ties should not be a thing in Decamon; the card played first should win in case of a tie. This makes playing a high card first risky, but not downright suicidal; furthermore, it makes Ethereal 1 useful (marginally so, but still useful), and prevents the higher-level Ethereal cards from being downright unbeatable.

To the people clamoring for single-card buys: that already exists. It's called a Decamodifier. Instead of paying Gold for a card, you pay time, effort, and potentially high-value drops (if I ever see another Cloud Gigas, I'm killing it, because its drops are worth way more than its card).

OoC: Yeah, Actaeon didn't follow them in here to be abandoned. Looks like there might be a PvP in the making!

OoC: (Actaeon & Kiray) Hey look at that we'd be on the same side this time! ;) lol

OoC: Not sure if PvP happens in the fields, but I'll accept a team up this time.

What have I done?!

[Lind Whisperer]

To the people clamoring for single-card buys: that already exists. It's called a Decamodifier. Instead of paying Gold for a card, you pay time, effort, and potentially high-value drops (if I ever see another Cloud Gigas, I'm killing it, because its drops are worth way more than its card).

The problem with the Decamodifier is that enemies that can be Decamodified with it are extremely rare. In the entirely (admittedly short) time I've been playing, I can only remember seeing three of them in quests(Battle Ant in the FOG fields, Cloud Gigas and Thunderbird in #120).

It's worth the 15 GP it costs, in the chance you do come across an enemy you can card, but just barely.