Sandy Posted January 20, 2015 Author Posted January 20, 2015 Also, this battle just confirms my previous analysis that Skirmisher is the single most subtly broken class in existence, followed closely by Alchemist. Well duh, that's why they are player classes. Fashioning enemies out of them is just insane, if you ask me. A quick guide to Miirym, because I just realized I haven't spelled it out: For some reason I thought you left Miirym at Valentine's. I don't know how I feel about you bringing her into this quest... You're not a dragoon anymore, so you can't use her for anything outside roleplaying, at least. That's a Dragoon's job trait. Quote
Zepher Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Hoke has been doing it for a quest or two. Quote
Sandy Posted January 20, 2015 Author Posted January 20, 2015 Hoke has been doing it for a quest or two. Okay, that totally slipped under my radar. I just don't think it's fair that you could essentially carry on using one classes benefits after you switch out of it. I always imagined ex-Dragoons would leave their dragons at home, but I apparently haven't said it out loud. Quote
Lind Whisperer Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 You're not a dragoon anymore, so you can't use her for anything outside roleplaying, at least. That's a Dragoon's job trait. What happens when you advance from Dragoon up to a higher class, like, say, Prophet? Since you're not a Dragoon then, I assume then the Dragon becomes just part of your RP? Quote
JimBee Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Aye, this battle in 118 right now is pretty tough. I think we can still win pretty easily though if we knock off the Skirmishers and make sure the Alchemists stop brewing. I'm fine with ex-Dragoons using their dragons for RP purposes only. Quote
Lind Whisperer Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 The problem is, how many actions fall under RP, and how many under fighting? That dragon has been fighting with you all along, and now they aren't. Even if you explain that away by saying "Well, they're fighting, we just don't count it," what about when you need to have the dragon carry something, or fly somewhere? I understand that there's a limit to how much "real-world logic" applies, but I really think that this falls fully within that limit. Quote
Zepher Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Yeah, I think the distinction here is that Arthur is actually using his to potentially gain some information (is that window unlocked?). It will become pretty weird RP-wise too once the dragons get big, but weirdly don't help out in combat. But, no, it hasn't really bothered me at all either, though in this case I understand where Sandy is coming from. Quote
JimBee Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Those are good points. If definitely say that Miirym isn't allowed to go look in the window because that's an actual job trait. And I guess it would be weird if heroes started bringing mammoth-sized dragons on quests with them if the dragon was just going to stand there Quote
Lind Whisperer Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I'm half tempted to suggest that ex-Dragoons, whether graduated to higher classes or switched, be allowed to keep their Dragons - RP and attack bonuses. After all, it isn't like it's a Advanced Class, where you could just switch by choice whenever you're in the Hall - you have to earn the right to be a Dragoon, through three Shadeux quests. It's not anywhere near a perfect, or even ideal solution, but it'd work until someone came up with a better one. Quote
Zepher Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I do have a better suggestion. That doesn't happen. Quote
Lind Whisperer Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I do have a better suggestion. That doesn't happen. I'm not arguing that that's a better solution in practice, but how on earth do you explain away the fact that you're currently carrying around a dragon, and they suddenly aren't doing anything? Quote
Kintobor Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I'm not arguing that that's a better solution in practice, but how on earth do you explain away the fact that you're currently carrying around a dragon, and they suddenly aren't doing anything? Easy, Dragoon's can control a dragon. Other classes can't. Therefore, the character loses their dragon once they leave the Dragoon class. Should they want to return to the class, I'm all for them picking up their old dragon, though. Quote
Lind Whisperer Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Easy, Dragoon's can control a dragon. Other classes can't. Therefore, the character loses their dragon once they leave the Dragoon class. Should they want to return to the class, I'm all for them picking up their old dragon, though. Fair. Although in that case, I'm not sure why you'd want to graduate from Dragoon, with the potential attack bonuses... Question - what about the "mistrust" aspect? Say I receive my dragon at 30 - no attack problems. Now, at level 50, I switch to Prophet. But at 60, I switch back to Dragoon. I would imagine the mistrust would stay at 0, because of the letter of the rules? Quote
Flipz Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I don't see it as anything different than what Althior's done with Finnegan in the past. If it's really an issue, I can send her away, it just seems rather unfair for there to be such a *Big Deal* about dragon mistrust and companionship only to have to leave them behind if they want to do something else for a Quest. Quote
Palathadric Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Just say she went on vacation or something. Visiting relatives. Quote
Khorne Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Just say she went on vacation or something. Visiting relatives. Yes...she went on "vacation" to some "farm" where other people can "take care of her"... Re: #117, I was going to make on OOC post, but I figured it was better to discuss it here. Throlar's last move is really shitty RP, IMHO. No offense, but Throlar CAN'T be everywhere at the same time. I clearly stated Eric took the Paladin's gold (only his gold) WHILE Throlar and Heckz were still bickering and "fighting". So, in my eyes, it's impossible that Throlar is lunging at Heckz, then vomiting his guts out AND taking the Paladin's gold BEFORE Eric AT THE SAME TIME. I get Throlar can't stand Heckz and Eric RP-wise and I'm quite certain the feeling is mutual. Eric is greedy, Eric can't stand Throlar nor Rollinger, so he took the gold. Eric's a character, as a PLAYER, I was going to even things out obviously. I don' want to be that guy who takes ALL the loot just for the lolz. I was going to see what the next battle would give us in terms of loot and then split Rollinger's gold and take some loot or forego loot altogether and keep Rollinger's gold. The action just really bothers me. I could make a new post now saying: "Before Throlar took the gold, Eric took it first and quickly tucked it away safely where Throlar couldn't find it.", but that is just soooooo childish. Just roll with how it happened :shrug: . Eric took the gold and Heckz took the rest. They said they'd do it and they did it, BEFORE Throlar could do anything. Besides, Throlar was explicitly disgusted by the very thought of looting dead Rollinger's corpse, so why would he take his stuff now? It doesn't really make sense. Phew, I think that's it. Just had to get that out of my system. TL;DR: I don't mind an antagonistic relationship between the characters, but that last move you pulled is childish and impossible, IMO . Any thoughts from others? Am I seeing this completely wrong? EDIT: Nevermind the rant, all is cleared up now . Sorry . Edited January 20, 2015 by Khorne Quote
bionicle_fanatic Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Personally, if I played a dragoon and lost the Dragon if I switched classes, I'd just stay as a dragoon [:P] Even if another class has better stats, I think the RP possibilities for a baby Dragon are innumerable. [:P] "Yo, Lint, Animal. Watcha doing?" ... Is that autocorrect kicking in there, a terrible typo, or am I missing something? [:P] [:P] Quote
Cutcobra Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) snip I think Throlar just took the Cursed Items, not the gold or the acutal items. Edited January 20, 2015 by Cutcobra Quote
Khorne Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I think Throlar just took the Cursed Items, not the gold or the acutal items. That makes more sense, thanks for clarifying. I doubt I would've gotten the point of his post otherwise. Thanks! Quote
K-Nut Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I don't see it as anything different than what Althior's done with Finnegan in the past. If it's really an issue, I can send her away, it just seems rather unfair for there to be such a *Big Deal* about dragon mistrust and companionship only to have to leave them behind if they want to do something else for a Quest. I think she can stick around, just not be sent out to do the party's work. I don't think I've ever had Finnegan go around and do work for the party, just had him around for some roleplay purposes. Plus there's a reason that I play him as an incompetent wuss. The real issue here isn't with what you've done, but just to keep others from giving themselves dragons and/or summons that their class doesn't allow just so that they can get around obstacles. I know I've used some of Althior's undead to do some jobs, but that's a class warranted summon. Same with Alexis; I'm pretty sure that she used her Ice summon to get us to the Hovels in Quest #33. I would hate to see Mirym go, even if it is just for this quest, since I think allows great RP for you and for the party. Quote
CMP Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 The real issue here isn't with what you've done, but just to keep others from giving themselves dragons and/or summons that their class doesn't allow just so that they can get around obstacles. I know I've used some of Althior's undead to do some jobs, but that's a class warranted summon. Same with Alexis; I'm pretty sure that she used her Ice summon to get us to the Hovels in Quest #33. Yeah, but then that totally defeats of the purpose of 'Pet Dragon' and 'Decamon Summon'. Quote
K-Nut Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Yeah, but then that totally defeats of the purpose of 'Pet Dragon' and 'Decamon Summon'. I'm saying it's what the class doesn't allow is the issue. It would be like me, as a prophet, trying to keep undead around to help me out, or summoning a Decamon card to do my dirty wok. Summoning classes like Evoker and Decamon Drafter can definitely use their summons as they choose to, as can Necromancers and Dragoons. It's trying to transfer that summon to another, non-summoning class that's the issue. Quote
Lind Whisperer Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 ... Is that autocorrect kicking in there, a terrible typo, or am I missing something? [:P] [:P] I believe Warlen is using/creating a nickname for Annie, since Annie and Animal have the same opening syllable. Lind hasn't responded because he's waiting for Annie to respond to his last comment. Quote
CMP Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I'm saying it's what the class doesn't allow is the issue. It would be like me, as a prophet, trying to keep undead around to help me out, or summoning a Decamon card to do my dirty wok. Summoning classes like Evoker and Decamon Drafter can definitely use their summons as they choose to, as can Necromancers and Dragoons. It's trying to transfer that summon to another, non-summoning class that's the issue. That's not what I'm talking about. Pet Dragon and Decamon Summon are job traits. I don't believe Evoker nor Necromancer have job traits that let them use summons outside of battle. Quote
UsernameMDM Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Hoke has never used Torc in a game-mechanical sense. 100% role-play. Quote
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