Heroica RPG General Discussion

[Pyrovisionary]

I think you just described all of Endgame's quests. Apart from when he tries to make it into a complex backstory about immortal and all powerful beings.

I don't think MDM is referring to Quest narrative as such. Rather the fact that everyone's going "But my side is standing for [Freedom, 'Murica, equality] and has [Dragons, shapeshifters, edgy names] and is superior because of this."

[Scubacarrot]

I think that stems from the fact that the Wolfgang is the only faction based on an actual LEGO theme - and the Wolfgang were typically villains.

Haha, shows how differently kids interpretate those kind of things. I always thought they were like the robin hood type faction.

[Endgame]

I think you just described all of Endgame's quests. Apart from when he tries to make it into a complex backstory about immortal and all powerful beings.

Context, man. It's a neccasary thing. Gotta give a reason why you're fighting a giant polyp with 6 eyes, and who its superior is. And Immortalis didn't choose his name, actually (and its a huge misnomer, since he is perfectly moral) - it was given to him by NPCs already introduced, and ones I didn't actually make.

[Scubacarrot]

I don't think MDM is referring to Quest narrative as such. Rather the fact that everyone's going "But my side is standing for [Freedom, 'Murica, equality] and has [Dragons, shapeshifters, edgy names] and is superior because of this."

Then clearly you should support the faction that supports good ol' dungeoncrawling and adventurer-values.

[Waterbrick Down]

It's kind of interesting that even though Sandy, the loremaster for the Wolfgang has been trying to push them one way, people clearly have been portraying the Wolfgang in another way. That, I think, shows that clearly there is some form of mostly consensus over what they are or how they operate among the players.

True, but again I think it comes from the QM's wanting something to fill that roll and the Wolfgang is the closest thing to it. If Sandy forbids QM's from portraying them in that light, then it won't take long for another group to fill the niche whether it be the Crimson Crown, the Cold Circle, or some other group. We tend to categorize things into good vs evil, black vs white, we don't like it when no matter what side you choose you're going to get a mixed bag of morally gray ideals and characters (i.e. Wolfgang, Crescent Union, or Sungold Alliance).

[Scubacarrot]

I guess at this point it doesn't matter anymore, but the Strivvi Quests were originally the Wolfgang doing evil shit, mostly through proxys (at first Donny, then another one after he died), which Ulfric may or may not have known about.

[Pyrovisionary]

Then clearly you should support the faction that supports good ol' dungeoncrawling and adventurer-values.

The fourth faction - getting absolutely hammered in the hall with the lads.

It's also that the exchange of dogma and ideology has bled through into General discussion. I have a completely different view as to how Eubric should be run than Sarge, but then again. I can't exactly teach him Economics on the way back from Salmanda.

[Scubacarrot]

We tend to categorize things into good vs evil, black vs white, we don't like it when no matter what side you choose you're going to get a mixed bag of morally gray ideals and characters (i.e. Wolfgang, Crescent Union, or Sungold Alliance).

I don't think it's being afraid of morally grey, it's more a tendency of considering the group you chose to be the superior one.

[Lind Whisperer]

We've seen plenty of LEGO theme factions displayed in this game that have little correlation to their real world counter-parts.

True, but most of them have a name that's slightly different. It's just sub-conscious correlation. Or maybe not. :shrug:

Haha, shows how differently kids interpretate those kind of things. I always thought they were like the robin hood type faction.

That would be Forestmen, or Dark Forest. (Dark Forest even had "Rob N. Hood - although he was portrayed as a villain.)

And Immortalis didn't choose his name, actually (and its a huge misnomer, since he is perfectly moral) - it was given to him by NPCs already introduced, and ones I didn't actually make.

Ooh, link, link!

[UsernameMDM]

I don't think MDM is referring to Quest narrative as such. Rather the fact that everyone's going "But my side is standing for [Freedom, 'Murica, equality] and has [Dragons, shapeshifters, edgy names] and is superior because of this."

Not necessarily aimed at any quest in particular. Just seeing undertones/themes that I get sick of hearing/seeing in the news/social media everyday. I know some like it because it makes things current/edgy, but when it echoes the real world too much, it kind of loses its luster.

Kind of like when you get all pumped up to see a movie/tv show, only to be disappointed/put-off by its heavy-handed push for certain 'agendas.'

[Waterbrick Down]

I don't think it's being afraid of morally grey, it's more a tendency of considering the group you chose to be the superior one.

This too.

[Lind Whisperer]

I don't think MDM is referring to Quest narrative as such. Rather the fact that everyone's going "But my side is standing for [Freedom, 'Murica, equality] and has [Dragons, shapeshifters, edgy names] and is superior because of this."

But that's because that's what people do in the real world. In the real world, nearly everyone thinks that their side is the best, because to them it seems to be, and they cite reasons as to why it is.

[Sandy]

We tend to categorize things into good vs evil, black vs white, we don't like it when no matter what side you choose you're going to get a mixed bag of morally gray ideals and characters (i.e. Wolfgang, Crescent Union, or Sungold Alliance).

But I like it that way. Good guys vs. bad guys is such a tired trope, especially since we all know that there is potential for both good and evil in all of us. I guess I just like my NPCs more humane...

That's why I wanted to show flashbacks to Baba's past in Quest#135 (they were originally planned for Quest#100) - she's a monster, sure, but she also has her own desires, motivations and fears.

[Lind Whisperer]

Not necessarily aimed at any quest in particular. Just seeing undertones/themes that I get sick of hearing/seeing in the news/social media everyday. I know some like it because it makes things current/edgy, but when it echoes the real world too much, it kind of loses its luster.

Kind of like when you get all pumped up to see a movie/tv show, only to be disappointed/put-off by its heavy-handed push for certain 'agendas.'

I know what you mean, and there have been agendas in Heroica that have been mildly against my own views, but that's a cost of living in today's world.

[Sandy]

True, but most of them have a name that's slightly different. It's just sub-conscious correlation. Or maybe not. :shrug:

Actually, there's no LEGO theme called "Wolfgang". You are thinking about the Wolf Pack.

[Endgame]

Ooh, link, link!

Ooh, spoilers, spoilers! Nah, but someone can probably figure it out.

That's why I wanted to show flashbacks to Baba's past in Quest#135 (they were originally planned for Quest#100) - she's a monster, sure, but she also has her own desires, motivations and fears.

While the flashbacks were the highlights of 135 and made me like Baba as a villain a lot more, I don't think it made her any less evil. She wheeled and dealed magic tomes that held cataclysmic power, and sucked an innocent dry for her own gain. Much more defined, yes. but no less evil.

[Waterbrick Down]

But I like it that way. Good guys vs. bad guys is such a tired trope, especially since we all know that there is potential for both good and evil in all of us. I guess I just like my NPCs more humane...

That's why I wanted to show flashbacks to Baba's past in Quest#135 (they were originally planned for Quest#100) - she's a monster, sure, but she also has her own desires, motivations and fears.

And I completely agree with you in that's it's interesting and it has it's place in storytelling, the issue arises when people play RPG's to escape from that, they want the plain cut where there is right and wrong and a line drawn clearly in the sand. Both styles are tropes and each have their appeal to different types of players and both are valid and the one great thing about Heroica RPG as we as a community have always been able to accommodate both styles via different QM's. I guess this comes into more of the spot light due to the amount of content being focused on the one aspect of the game (your storyline, Sandy).

[Sandy]

I know what you mean, and there have been agendas in Heroica that have been mildly against my own views, but that's a cost of living in today's world.

What agendas might they be, may I ask?

I find fantasy settings to be an excellent way to observe the issues we have in our own world from an outsider's perspective. If I were to create a society where women rule by norm, it wouldn't be because I want to push some feministic agenda, but to examine gender roles in a reversed disposition. But to each their own, I guess.

While the flashbacks were the highlights of 135 and made me like Baba as a villain a lot more, I don't think it made her any less evil. She wheeled and dealed magic tomes that held cataclysmic power, and sucked an innocent dry for her own gain. Much more defined, yes. but no less evil.

Well, I meant to say that of course her actions are evil, but she isn't some megalomaniac archvillain trying to destroy the world for the giggles. Besides, what seems evil to us is just normal living for a mindflayer. You can't scold a cat for eating a mouse if she catches it, after all.

[UsernameMDM]

Either way, it's affecting my role-play, which, I like in a way, because I get to bleed into Hoke, playing my (not really) frustration into him. Will definitely affect his storyline as outside influences sometimes do/should.

[Scubacarrot]

I agree with WBD, I think you can say it like this: grey is all good, and a necessary staple of a decent story, character or anything narrative. But too much grey becomes goop. No one likes goop. It's indistinguishable and messy. We need some white and definitely some black every now and again. And because the Wolfgang storyline is so important to Heroica, it's quests are generally great (Quests 6 and 66 are two of my favorites despite not being on either), people expect and want things of them, and because it's a storyline of one person, that creates problems. Maybe.

I must myself admit I have not noticed any strong topical themes/agendas directly related to contemporary real world issues in quests I have been on, but that could be me just not seeing or looking for them.

[Lind Whisperer]

Actually, there's no LEGO theme called "Wolfgang". You are thinking about the Wolf Pack.

[The Chosen Minifigure]

*Wakes up.*

*Decides to check Heroica*

"I wonder if Flipz is back yet, or if any particularly notable loot or roleplay has taken place?"

*Reads General Discussion*

"Riiiiiiiiiight..."

[Lind Whisperer]

I must myself admit I have not noticed any strong topical themes/agendas directly related to contemporary real world issues in quests I have been on, but that could be me just not seeing or looking for them.

More...just around the forum, not necessarily in quests themselves.

[Endgame]

Well, I meant to say that of course her actions are evil, but she isn't some megalomaniac archvillain trying to destroy the world for the giggles. Besides, what seems evil to us is just normal living for a mindflayer. You can't scold a cat for eating a mouse if she catches it, after all.

And next you'll be advocating for vampire rights too, huh. Can't they just go to the blood bank like anyone else?

[Waterbrick Down]

Hey Boris does very good for himself, snagging a downed thug every now and again.

More...just around the forum, not necessarily in quests themselves.

You'll run into that plenty in the real-world, it lends itself to making Heroica RPG such a distinctly diverse community and thus a distinctly diverse game.