Heroica RPG General Discussion

[Waterbrick Down]

Except against enemys who ignore SP, and don't forget knights, black knights, paladins, berserkers, and mystic knights, all can achieve this "win any battle they enter" as long as their SP is high enough.

[Jedi master Brick]

A good to reason to make enemies stronger, but perhaps the double health is a bit excessive.

No, because you would be taking lots of hits. I am struggling to chose my advanced class

Edited February 7, 2012 by Jedi master Brick

[CMP]

What? I thought we were all complaining just a minute ago about how underpowered the Warden's Aura is.... Enemies will get stronger. And with the right QMs, they will have more devious special damages. What's a tough battle now will be a piece of cake once we're at level 15, but who knows what terrible enemies will start cropping up that point? Maybe there'll be an enemy that completely ignores SP, or who draws all heros to the front row, or disables all ranged attacks!

Hmm..._{*scribble scribble*}

[Waterbrick Down]

A good to reason to make enemies stronger, but perhaps the double health is a bit excessive.

One could argue that mystic knights are the same in that they can attack at full strength from the back row and still carry a shield, yet they have a unique shield roll ability, I guess I'd like to see the warden's shield roll more unique than just a slightly more vulnerable sentinal position.

[Fred Daniel Yam]

Why would you buy swords? Attacking at a range and having a shield is one of the Warden's primary, unique advantages.

Also, I don't think gems are being sold anymore.

Because I want to have the full potential of a melee and ranged class and the gems, I'll try to get off the second market.

[Scubacarrot]

One could argue that mystic knights are the same in that they can attack at full strength from the back row and still carry a shield, yet they have a unique shield roll ability, I guess I'd like to see the warden's shield roll more unique than just a slightly more vulnerable sentinal position.

Hmm I very much see the point you made in the previous page, The ability DOES look underpowered, especially as it seems to be designed as a defender class, Perhaps the health bonus could be changed to standardly give more health to heroes becoming wardens, and the ability either last 3 rounds, or a whole battle, or the enemy you targeted for the rest of the battle (Making it a taunt?). Just throwing ideas around, it seems awfully hard to balance this.

[Peppermint_M]

Hey, Tesni with Cysgodian and as a Barbarian is basically the Black Knight special...and you don't have to get Stunned afterward.

Make sure you actually want to be the class. I'm half-regretting making a Rogue, most of my reasoning was that being one would fit my pirate so well.

I am Barbarian as base class... Battle Mage is my option dual classing with Mage, Berserker is added kight.

[Darth Nihilus]

Except against enemys who ignore SP, and don't forget knights, black knights, paladins, berserkers, and mystic knights, all can achieve this "win any battle they enter" as long as their SP is high enough.

Yep. That's why a lot of people who aren't Knights will choose the ACs that are made with Knights, because of the shield. It's also why there are more Knights than any other class. Potentially, if you have enough Gold and don't buy anything else, you could get your shield to SP:10 or above and potentially never worry about Damage, unless there is an enemy that disregards SP.

The Black Knight has the added bonus of Darkness-elemental Hits on the Shield roll however, as well as the Hide instead of Miss, which is a good thing for if you're at low Health. The sacrificed Health power is good if you have a lot of potions on hand or really high Health, but other than that it is useless. The Special Dodge instead of Special Damage is useful, but nothing different than what the Cleric already has.

The Berserker's War Cry, as has been mentioned before, is very useful in some situations, but not with large groups of enemies. There is also the matter of not being able to change targets, which wouldn't affect things much when the character can defeat an enemy with a single hit, but could be a serious hindrance when enemies are more powerful. The Defended Counter attack is also useful, but it takes Health away from the Berserker and the enemy, so there is not much benefit for the character.

The Mystic Knight's Spellspin power is useful as well, if the character has Gems, but with no Gems, it is useless. The Enchantment ability also is useful, but can be a hindrance, since it depletes lots of Ether.

The Paladin's abilities are also useful, but not really anythig=ng we haven't seen before. +11 Health is very nice, though. As before, the Special Guard ability is useful, but is already there with Clerics.

The Aura effect of the Warden is useful to other members of the party, but can defeat a Warden if they are not prepared. The Aim ability is also useful, but using WP only, it only has the potential to defeat an enemy if the character has had their WP upgraded to a very high number.

Overall, out of them, I think that if a Knight wanted to do a lot of Damage, Berserker is the way to go, but if they wanted to protect allies instead, you should go with the Paladin.

[CMP]

I am Barbarian as base class... Battle Mage is my option dual classing with Mage, Berserker is added kight.

I know. That's why I'm saying it's funny that the Rogue/Knight Shield is similar to the Barbarian's.

[Brickdoctor]

Say that you were battling 20 level 14 enemies. The party's Warden rolls shield. He/she's in the back row so each only does 7 damage and if the warden has an SP of 7 then no damage is done to the party at all and the warden's health has doubled.

Even without rolling a shield, the Warden can attack from the back row each round and with a decent shield may never really have to worry about damage ever again.

I'm fairly certain that the doubled HP only lasts for 1 Round.

I think the Warden at first glance seems underpowered because it's a very balanced class. It appears to be a defensive class with the defensive special ability and the ability to wield shields, but it mostly retains the offensive support nature of the Ranger.

[CMP]

Because I want to have the full potential of a melee and ranged class and the gems, I'll try to get off the second market.

Bows and hand cannons are such are completely superior to swords. The absolute only reason I can think of otherwise is for an enemy to be invulnerable to ranged attacks but not to melee - which hasn't happened yet, nor do I think will happen often.

Or if it's retrievable, but that's something else.

Edited February 7, 2012 by CallMePieOrDie

[Scubacarrot]

The fear I have that as it is, some classes will get overused because they are more powerful, which will make for a boring game (say paladin is the most powerful class on paper, every knight and cleric becomes one, would be boring, right?) So I think if it is noticed that some classes have noticable more power/use, tweaks should be made, what do other people think?

[Tanma]

Bows and hand cannons are such are completely superior to swords. The absolute only reason I can think of otherwise is for an enemy to be invulnerable to ranged attacks but not to melee - which hasn't happened yet, nor do I think will happen often.

Or if it's retrievable, but that's something else.

What about if the battle is in a small cave? A cave so small that you had no backrow? You can't really use a bow or a hand cannon in close quarters, and even if you could the advantages of ranged weapons would be lost. Or what if you were fighting underwater? If you were using enchantments to breath underwater your weaponry would slow to a halt in the water, and if you were in a submarine I highly doubt it would be safe to fire cannons and bows.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Tanma

[Darth Nihilus]

What about if the battle is in a small cave? A cave so small that you had no backrow? You can't really use a bow or a hand cannon in close quarters, and even if you could the advantages of ranged weapons would be lost. Or what if you were fighting underwater? If you were using enchantments to breath underwater your weaponry would slow to a halt in the water, and if you were in a submarine I highly doubt it would be safe to fire cannons and bows.

Hey, an underwater Quest is actually a really good idea..... *scribble scribble*

[CMP]

What about if the battle is in a small cave? A cave so small that you had no backrow? You can't really use a bow or a hand cannon in close quarters, and even if you could the advantages of ranged weapons would be lost. Or what if you were fighting underwater? If you were using enchantments to breath underwater your weaponry would slow to a halt in the water, and if you were in a submarine I highly doubt it would be safe to fire cannons and bows.

Then no ranged classes would sign up.

[Brickdoctor]

Then no ranged classes would sign up.

A backup melee weapon actually isn't a bad idea. I picked up an SP: 5 shield in Quest 14, so maybe I'll use the money towards a weapon.

[Scorpiox]

I'm going druid because it has the best healing bonuses, but I agree that maybe Warden should be tweaked slightly, to make it less invincible.

[K-Nut]

Perhaps K-nut would be considerate enough, to start giving out gems from his unending supply, to dashing young rangers aspiring to follow in the footsteps of his beloved

Hmm, let me think about that...

Nah! I knew from the beginning I was going to want all the gems, that's why I didn't spend almost any of my gold from Quests 3 or 5. Now that those are out of the way, it's time to collect scrolls! Nah, I'll probably just upgrade Dragoro a bit.

[Brickdoctor]

I'm going druid because it has the best healing bonuses, but I agree that maybe Warden should be tweaked slightly, to make it less invincible.

I disagree, and not just because I'm going to be a Warden.

The Warden is not going to be invincible. Really, it has a more vulnerable special than that of the Knight. The Knight not only blocks attacks, but it also can't take any Damage while doing so. The Warden, on the other hand, can be Knocked Out defending the rest of the group.

[CMP]

The Warden is not going to be invincible. Really, it has a more vulnerable special than that of the Knight. The Knight not only blocks attacks, but it also can't take any Damage while doing so. The Warden, on the other hand, can be Knocked Out defending the rest of the group.

Exactly. And if the shield's not strong enough, Aura can doom you.

[Tanma]

Then no ranged classes would sign up.

Perhaps, but the quest need not be all like that. The cave scenario could have periods in far larger caves, and in the underwater concept heroes could still need a Ranger. What if the heroes find themselves surrounded by soldiers in the Dolphin Dominion; a nation of hostile Dolphin warlords and warriors with power sonic attacks and a hatred of the surface dwellers? A Ranger will be necessary to negotiate with the vicious Dolphin emperor, if the group don't want to face a massive battle. So even though the Ranger can't fight, it could still help.

[CMP]

What if the heroes find themselves surrounded by soldiers in the Dolphin Dominion; a nation of hostile Dolphin warlords and warriors with power sonic attacks and a hatred of the surface dwellers? A Ranger will be necessary to negotiate with the vicious Dolphin emperor, if the group don't want to face a massive battle. So even though the Ranger can't fight, it could still help.

Rangers still wouldn't sign up because unless they're advanced classes, or if they are, but don't have an extra weapon, they would be nigh on useless.

[Flipz]

Jeez. Can you go through and review all the Rogue advanced classes for me so I can choose better, Flipz? I can't seem to make up my mind.

Will do!

Assassin is, naturally, the first class for Rogues who have issues with dealing damage to their enemy; the addition of Aim changes the chances of dealing damage from 3/6 to 4/6, which is very helpful, and the Sudden Death OHKO chance is an Ennocsend for those who end up in seemingly one-sided battles. Of course, being able to attack from the back row without losing attack strength is highly helpful as well for those Rogues who seem to get KO'd a lot, but if that's your primary concern you may want to go with Black Knight instead. As for the Mug counterpart, Gold Reaper improves upon Mug by stealing from all enemies in a given row, but it's not quite as effective as, say, the Sorcerer's Magnetic Mojo (if gold is the reason you chose Rogue). Also note that the Animal Talk and tracking ability (which is basically Diplomacy for animals) is reduced to just tracking, which may discourage some Rangers from joining the Class.

Black Knights are THE class for self-preservation and pure defense. Shields of course deduct damage like a boss, and you can sacrifice Health to add damage, though if you've joined the class so you can stay alive longer you probably won't use that much. Also of note for the avid roleplayers is, Diplomacy becomes Intimidation, which may be easier or harder for your to roleplay than gentler diplomacy. Also of note: This is one of only two Advanced Classes based on Rogue (the other being Witch) that does NOT have a counterpart to Mug. If your strategy for Black Knight depends on raising your SP to ungodly levels, keep in mind that unlike your Rogue days, you will NOT have a steady supply of gold flowing in from your Shield rolls, so you will either need to save up for a while before switching to Black Knight or you will need to focus on high-reward Quests. You also need to make sure there are other strong heroes on your team, as your Special Dodge has a decent chance of passing Special Damage on to the next party member in turn; this could potentially cripple the team if it kicks in at the wrong time, not to mention the other characters (not necessarily the players, but their characters) will likely NOT be happy with your character for putting them in harm's way.

Raiders are sort of a stealth rockstar; little fuss seems to be made over them, but they are really QUITE powerful, especially in circumstances where money equals power. Not only do they attack all enemies (like a boss Barbarian) on a Shield, they essentially Mug them, AND they gain a Ranger Aim-like ability in Steal, where if they miss an attack, they at least steal some gold in the process. Natural Respite is also highly helpful for those who take damage a lot but don't want to spend all their money on potions to use between battles. Pie, I'd recommend Raider for Atramor, not only are pirates the Raiders of the sea (for RP purposes), the flow of gold into his pockets will be massive, AND with that Sapper in hand combined with Natural Respite he'll be unstoppable even without a Cleric in the party. If I had chosen to go with a non-Ether character, I would have set up for Raider.

Sorcerer is epic in the conventional way, and as I said before they are a bit of a temptation for Arthur. Mage abilities are always useful if you can get the gems (and wealthy Rogues will usually have the money to buy them secondhand), and like Raiders their Shield Mugs all enemies. In fact, Magnetic Mojo is the single most useful Shield available to Rogues, as it affects all enemies, Mugs them, AND Stuns them; no other Rogue-based Shield has three different effects at once. Confusion is similarly helpful, and Mirror Damage helps even the score if you get hit. Socrerer pairs well with almost any class or party, as it has enough attack options to take on enemies solo, but also spits out status effects on enemies that can aid the entire party. This would also be a good class for Atramor, except he doesn't trust Ether.

Witch is (IMO) slightly less flexible than Sorcerer, but is still highly useful. Healing means you're a vital team player, while hex and poison are status effects that cater towards helping the whole party. (Unlike stunning or confusion, poisoned offers more support to the party as a whole than it does when fighting alone against your foes.) It is notable that, like the Black Knight, the Witch cannot steal gold from enemies; however, as the Witch won't ever need to spend money on potions or poison, this is slightly less worrying (though it should be pointed out that tonics for Ether will become a necessary expense). Jinx also abuses the fact that, since Specials are the main way QMs can make the enemies in their Quests stand out, they tend to be a bit overpowered; since Jinx abuses this, QMs should put extra care into enemy construction if they think a Witch will sign up, or risk entire encounters being decimated. Overall, Witch definitely requires forethought and team planning to use well, it's less of a "loner" class than the other Rogue classes. WARNING: Do NOT put a Witch and a Shaman in the same party; not only would two Clerics be a bit superfluous, but their powers also tend to conflict (specifically the Witch's Poison and the Shaman's Blood Ritual). Also note that large numbers of weak enemies are the bane of Witches, while large, powerful, high-Health bosses fall easily to Witches (with Hex, poison, and Jinx, the Witch is almost guaranteed to do major damage).

TL;DR Atramor should go with Raider, it fits both his personality and his stats.

EDIT: Holy cow you guys posted like two pages while I was typing this.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Flipz

[Scubacarrot]

snip

Flipz casts Giant Wall of Text, it is super effective!

Readers are now educated! Flipz is victorious!

[Darth Nihilus]

Flipz, you have almost convinced me to become a Raider.

If Dak didn't have a complicated past and story reasons to become a Black Knight, I would, but since he does, I won't, or not until his story as a Black Knight is done. And TheBoyWonder, don't even think of going after Alisha again. Dak has dibs!