Heroica RPG General Discussion

[CMP]

No, not good points, the only possible for reason would be to make QM-ing "easier." It is a gamechanging thing, so yeah.

Good points, because it would add another layer of strategy to a game, I just think there's more downsides than upsides.

For the first part, I did make the suggestion in my first post that there be a new artefact(s) or item modification available (though, perhaps not readily available) that would enable you to avoid the delay.

Still, I disagree that the delay should be there in the first place.

Edited May 7, 2012 by CallMePieOrDie

[Zepher]

I don't think he's trying to dumb it down, but I also don't think this is worth debating. It is too game-changing to change. Sandy doesn't seem to think it needs changing, so debating it is pointless.

[swils]

Okay, imagine a rogue, with a melee and a throwing weapon. Be honest, when would the rogue ever use their throwing weapon? Never. Because he can either take one turn to switch, and one turn to attack from the back row with full power, or attack twice with the same effect. What I am saying is, it dumbs things down, you would have to spend a turn, losing any potential damage output that round to switch weapons, not to mention extra possible free hits. In reality, unless neccasary because of elements, no one will want to lose a turn. So what will happen is, everyone with multiple weapons will use one per battle, which yes, is dumbing things down, not encouraging strategy.

Most of the times that I have seen a throwing weapon used, it is either a) at the start of the fight, or b) when the character is low on health. This might discourage the former, but in the case of the latter, attacking twice also leaves the rogue open to the possibility of death twice, whereas waiting a turn then using the throwing weapon would only expose them to damage once, and half damage, at that.

If players have an array of weapons at their disposal, but are able to survive all their fights using only a single weapon per fight, then I would argue that the lack of strategy somewhat falls on the shoulders of the QM, rather than the proposed mechanics. Encounters, especially in small, controlled environments like this, should be tailored to the party's strengths and weaknesses, equipment included.

As for mages and gems, I guess that depends on how you perceive the class to work. Do the mages hold the gem infront of them, and channel energy through the gem to produce the elemental effect? Or does the possession of the gem award the mage mastery over that element, such that they can call upon it's power at whim, and do not need to be focusing through the gem itself? It could go either way, though I'd probably suggest that gems be subject to this also.

[Waterbrick Down]

Okay, imagine a rogue, with a melee and a throwing weapon. Be honest, when would the rogue ever use their throwing weapon? Never. Because he can either take one turn to switch, and one turn to attack from the back row with full power, or attack twice with the same effect. What I am saying is, it dumbs things down, you would have to spend a turn, losing any potential damage output that round to switch weapons, not to mention extra possible free hits. In reality, unless neccasary because of elements, no one will want to lose a turn. So what will happen is, everyone with multiple weapons will use one per battle, which yes, is dumbing things down, not encouraging strategy.

The strategy comes from selecting the appropriate weapon at the beginning of the battle. But I agree a system where every weapon requires one turn to switch would be a hinderence to certain classes and in order to fix it, i.e. making throwing weapons exempt or adding an item that allows for switching without losing a turn, add too much complexity. Swils does make a good point though in saying that having the ability to switch weapons does make every player a jack of all trades to some degree, i.e. one player can be super-effective against multiple enemies because they have multiple gem-enfused weapons and or a healing staff. Going at it from Swils' perspective a player could focus on being good at just one type of monster or really good at healing, maybe to solve the throwing weapon condundrum Rogues could have the ability to switch weapons without the turn loss.

[Flipz]

The strategy comes from selecting the appropriate weapon at the beginning of the battle. But I agree a system where every weapon requires one turn to switch would be a hinderence to certain classes and in order to fix it, i.e. making throwing weapons exempt or adding an item that allows for switching without losing a turn, add too much complexity. Swils does make a good point though in saying that having the ability to switch weapons does make every player a jack of all trades to some degree, i.e. one player can be super-effective against multiple enemies because they have multiple gem-enfused weapons and or a healing staff. Going at it from Swils' perspective a player could focus on being good at just one type of monster or really good at healing, maybe to solve the throwing weapon condundrum Rogues could have the ability to switch weapons without the turn loss.

Yeah, but "jack of all trades, master of none." A player CAN do all sorts of things that other classes can, but if QMs keep the loot balanced, they won't be able to do it as well as the classes designed for those tasks can, and pursuing a path diverts resources away from upgrading the strengths of the base class.

Even as it stands, a Healing Staff is a major tactical choice; Clerics and their related classes automatically heal their full Power in Health (or more) when using Ether, whereas a Mage with a Healing Staff would have a substantially lower threshold unless they invested in upgrading the Healing Staff, which is a VERY strategic choice.

As for gems, taking a turn to switch between gems completely breaks Mages. There are MANY situations in which taking a turn to switch would open the party up to a Free Hit. Since Mages rely on elements, they have to switch gems more often than other classes would switch weapons, and since they have low Health, they would either get eaten alive if they are at the top of the Battle Order or at the very least they'd be a constant hazard to the rest of the team.

And as to the throwing weapon issue, "exempting" throwing weapons from the switching deal would be yet another Rogue advantage over other classes, while not exempting them would, as others have noted, make them completely useless.

EDIT: I apologize if that came off too harsh, I didn't intend it to be.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Flipz

[Scubacarrot]

So, about the Eye of the Beholder, I still don't get it, I can use it to see the next round of battle, but would it take my turn to use it, making it only useful for my allies? and how would the QM know what the other players are about to do? And would it not just prolong the whole battle, if the results are shown, and the players reconsider what they will do? I think Sandy is right and it needs to be changed, it sounds really cool, but I think it's practical use is just going to be clunky,

[Tachyon]

Is the expert class minstrel like a bard ?

[Rumble Strike]

I think it actually was in the job description, at the very start of Heroica RPG. It used to be that Rogues could only choose to Flee on Miss rolls, but Sandy changed it so that the job trait allowed Rogues to flee at any time. Before that, I think the trait was lock-picking (though of course not all locks can be picked). See Quest #2 for Hybros' badass lock-picking skills.

Ah, OK, that makes sense as to where the Rogue lockpicking idea came from. Thanks for that

Great story for Knifk's transformation to Black Knight. I love his final speech to the Copper Fox, detailing his Quests so far. Nice work!

Edited May 7, 2012 by Rumble Strike

[RPGer]

Is the expert class minstrel like a bard ?

Yes.

[LEGOman273]

To add to the debate:

Artifacts, yes; Weapons, no.

It really does hurt classes such as Rogue.

[LEGOman273]

@Sandy:

Who lives in the Great Desert of Abra?

[Flipz]

@Sandy:

Who lives in the Great Desert of Abra?

Kadabra?

[Scubacarrot]

@Sandy:

Who lives in the Great Desert of Abra?

Totally not (yet) canon, but:

"The Great Desert of Abra is home to many things, beings, secrets and monsters. The Trading City of Carthago is on the north side of the continent, and maintains a solid trading connection to Eubric, and is a popular stop for ships on their way to Salmanda, or is the point where travellers trade in ship for caravan, if they don't have the stomach to brave the Straight of Sirenes. The west side of the continent is an area troubled with slavers and piracy, and therefore is not a common destination for people from Eubric. There is also the location of the city-state of Strivvi, a city-state build on top of ruins of an ancient civilization, and a hub for slavers and other scum. The Great Desert itself is for the most part uncharted, and is mostly inhabited by nomads and primitive tribes, although it is said that it houses many secrets..."

[LEGOman273]

Totally not (yet) canon, but:

"The Great Desert of Abra is home to many things, beings, secrets and monsters. The Trading City of Carthago is on the north side of the continent, and maintains a solid trading connection to Eubric, and is a popular stop for ships on their way to Salmanda, or is the point where travellers trade in ship for caravan, if they don't have the stomach to brave the Straight of Sirenes. The west side of the continent is an area troubled with slavers and piracy, and therefore is not a common destination for people from Eubric. There is also the location of the city-state of Strivvi, a city-state build on top of ruins of an ancient civilization, and a hub for slavers and other scum. The Great Desert itself is for the most part uncharted, and is mostly inhabited by nomads and primitive tribes, although it is said that it houses many secrets..."

Wow! This is exactly what I wanted to make the Great Desert of Abra.

[Rumble Strike]

So that's where Strivvi is!

[xxlrocka]

Kadabra?

[Kadabra]

Kadabra?

Nay, Kadabra is only found on Route 8, Route 215, or in the Cerulean Cave. According to the Pokedex, which we all know is a lying bastard, it is also found in urban areas near humans such as abandoned houses, back alleys, etc. Other than that, you're going to have to evolve Abra or get one in a trade if you want to find Kadabra. I have no idea where you got the idea it would be in a fictional desert in a fantasy play-by-post roleplaying game...

[Big Cam]

Please refrain from these short posts that don't add to the game discussion.

With this thread being so busy, these short posts with no relevant info just make for clutter.

Thank You, I know Sandy and everyone else who is involved with this thread will appreciate it.

[Zepher]

I have a question for the newer players (excluding Flipz, who I know the answer to):

Do you go back and read ALL the old quests, or do "older" heroes occasionally (or often) reference quests or events that you flat-out don't know about.

[Kadabra]

I have a question for the newer players (excluding Flipz, who I know the answer to):

Do you go back and read ALL the old quests, or do "older" heroes occasionally (or often) reference quests or events that you flat-out don't know about.

When I was new(er) I read ALL teh Quests before I even joined. I still read every Quest, and no Heroica topics have the "new posts" arrow for long.

[Sandy]

"Wow....this is the best realm yet. I feel like I could stay here and lay under the sun on the grass all day!"

"So do that."

"What? No. I need to be a hero and rescue the children and fight the sort of evil monsters."

"Ugh. Fine then. If you want to fight things and be heroic then do. Not that I care...."

"I'm not fooled by all this serenity. Something grotesque is going to come as soon as we walk towards the children."

"Nothing is grotesque. Everything is cute in it's own way. Except you."

"Any last minute preparations before we go towards the children? I'll apply venom to my blade to use in the next battle."

Are you two serious? Is this your idea of good roleplaying? Talking to your "alter ego" instead of the other players like you're supposed to? Not to mention that you're both basically just copycating Althior and Boomingham, only with different font colors.

I know other players have addressed this before, but as the manager of this game I want to say I'm utterly disappointed.

On another matter...

Should I consider giving this game an R-rating?

[Chromeknight]

Are you two serious? Is this your idea of good roleplaying? Talking to your "alter ego" instead of the other players like you're supposed to? Not to mention that you're both basically just copycating Althior and Boomingham, only with different font colors.

I know other players have addressed this before, but as the manager of this game I want to say I'm utterly disappointed.

If a QM has players like this and wants to discourage players simply playing with themselves, perhaps the QM can ask, 'is the "other" personality total under the "primary" personality's control?' if yes, it's merely talking to oneself in pretty colours, if no then the player is all but asking to have some of their actions dictated by the QM.

On another matter...

Should I consider giving this game an R-rating?

As opposed to an R-rating for the violence, horror, drug references, piracy, vandalism and other criminal acts?

[Scubacarrot]

As opposed to an R-rating for the violence, horror, drug references, piracy, vandalism and other criminal acts?

Not to mention Alcohol Abuse, swearing(Well, Kinda), Racism and blatantly knicking someone's roleplaying.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Scubacarrot

[Zepher]

Just a quick mention to players in my Quest (and I thought this was common convention, but apparently not... I think I stole it from WBD in my last quest). <When a character speaks between these things> that means they're speaking in their native tongue, and most heroes should not be able to understand them. Maybe everyone in the Quest is good at Froglish though. It's just for story purposes (and maybe to force Volcanic to say more than just his attack ), but I thought it was worth noting.

[Sandy]

As opposed to an R-rating for the violence, horror, drug references, piracy, vandalism and other criminal acts?

Not to mention Alcohol Abuse, swearing(Well, Kinda), Racism and blatantly knicking someone's roleplaying.

Duh, everyone knows that nudity is worse than all of those things combined.