Heroica RPG General Discussion

[The_Customizer]

Just a general note to everyone in my quest, and others who might possibly be reading this.

I apologize for my major lack of activity here, on the RPG forum, and just in general, my computer has been broken, though it is supposed to be back in order shortly, not to mention just life in general. So, I do plan on being more active, just not right now, I will try my absolute best to keep up on Quest#25.

[Sandy]

I know some of you are brimming with ideas, but I have to ask you to leave all storylines related to the Wolfgang sabotaging the six houses in power to me, because that's pretty much the main plot of this game.

You are free to pitch quests for the Wolfgang to raise reputation among the criminal group, but like some of you have said, they better be posted under a false identity.

[Palathadric]

Any enemy not targeted will get a Free Hit on the party after everyone has acted.

This is an outright lie, as far as I'm concerned as we know that the pikemen cannot deliver freehits due to their huddling. Die scum!

[LEGOman273]

I know some of you are brimming with ideas, but I have to ask you to leave all storylines related to the Wolfgang sabotaging the six houses in power to me, because that's pretty much the main plot of this game.

You are free to pitch quests for the Wolfgang to raise reputation among the criminal group, but like some of you have said, they better be posted under a false identity.

In my Quest, they would not take down the House, they will go after one corrupt official.

[Scubacarrot]

In my Quest, they would not take down the House, they will go after one corrupt official.

Why would the Wolfgang go after one corrupt official? There are many corrupt people in power in Eubric, so what would make this one a target for the Wolfgang? Also: why would the Wolfgang gain from taking this one out?

Some more questions: Why would they need Heroica to take care of business, and what would make them turn to Heroica in the first place. They don't exactly enjoy an open and pleasant relation with Heroica.

[LEGOman273]

Why would the Wolfgang go after one corrupt official? There are many corrupt people in power in Eubric, so what would make this one a target for the Wolfgang? Also: why would the Wolfgang gain from taking this one out?

Some more questions: Why would they need Heroica to take care of business, and what would make them turn to Heroica in the first place. They don't exactly enjoy an open and pleasant relation with Heroica.

1. They need to start somewhere.

2. Many factors: Level of security, Ease of access, etc

3. By taking down an official, the Wolfgang will send the message that: 1. Corruption will not be tolerated, and 2. The Houses have weaknesses, and these weaknesses can be exploited.

4. The Heroes will provide assistance for a Wolfgang team (this team is one of the only ones not known by the Houses). Most of the 'Gang is known by the Houses and Town Watch; the Heroes (only those who have not been involved in Quest for or against the chosen official's House) would not be known, and thus would be able to assist the Wolfgang team.

[Flipz]

1. They need to start somewhere.

2. Many factors: Level of security, Ease of access, etc

3. By taking down an official, the Wolfgang will send the message that: 1. Corruption will not be tolerated, and 2. The Houses have weaknesses, and these weaknesses can be exploited.

4. The Heroes will provide assistance for a Wolfgang team (this team is one of the only ones not known by the Houses). Most of the 'Gang is known by the Houses and Town Watch; the Heroes (only those who have not been involved in Quest for or against the chosen official's House) would not be known, and thus would be able to assist the Wolfgang team.

You're painting the Wolfgang as if they were noble or something. I really don't like that idea.

Suggestion:

It would make more sense if the Wolfgang were trying to recruit this official; the Heroes would be instructed to get in the official's good graces (i.e. by running small, somewhat pointless errands) and then to secretly sabotage something under the official's jurisdiction. With no way to fix the problem and with his job on the line, the party would then extend the Wolfgang's offer of invitation to the official. If the Heroes do their job right, the official would turn; if they messed up too many of the official's errands or failed to follow the Wolfgang's directions, the official would refuse and be fired, and the Quest would fail. Either way, the Heroes would lose Reputation with the regular House, but they would only gain Reputation with the Wolfgang if the Quest was successful.

As an added twist, it might be an interesting complication to add an undercover Town Watch guard who is investigation possible sabotage of the House by the Wolfgang. The "detective" would assume the Heroes were sent to back her up, and if/when the detective finds out the Heroes are working with the Wolfgang, she would try to convince the Heroes to betray the Wolfgang and lead them to a Town Watch trap, the way that the Wolfgang have tried in the past to convince Heroes to betray the Town Watch.

Wolfgang-oriented Quests are, by nature, full of intrigue, betrayal, and suspicion. They aren't for the faint of heart, which is why I don't plan on using them too much.

Edited May 19, 2012 by Flipz

[LEGOman273]

Suggestion:

It would make more sense if the Wolfgang were trying to recruit this official; the Heroes would be instructed to get in the official's good graces (i.e. by running small, somewhat pointless errands) and then to secretly sabotage something under the official's jurisdiction. With no way to fix the problem and with his job on the line, the party would then extend the Wolfgang's offer of invitation to the official. If the Heroes do their job right, the official would turn; if they messed up too many of the official's errands or failed to follow the Wolfgang's directions, the official would refuse and be fired, and the Quest would fail. Either way, the Heroes would lose Reputation with the regular House, but they would only gain Reputation with the Wolfgang if the Quest was successful.

Briliant!

This works off my original idea, but makes it even better.

[Scubacarrot]

The problem I have with your idea, Flipz, is this: Why would the Wolfgang take a big risk, and hire Heroes from Heroica to do it for them?

The way I view the Wolfgang, and I may be very off, is that they are a player that is not as powerful as the houses yet, but their influence is growing, and while they want to make sure people know they around, they would also be careful not to set off a major crackdown, by the six forces combined, which the Wolfgang would surely lose. As we all know, the Wolfgang's ultimate goal is to overthrow the houses in power (for whatever reason, and with whatever means), do you really think they would risk major attention by coming to Heroica for something like this? They would have to assume the information would get relayed through to at least one of the houses, as the houses (Hinckwells in particular) have Heroes that are loyal to them, and there is the unknown factor of the veterans, who we can only assume do what is best for the city, so would they not warn the houses if something like this was happening? Also, it's often forgotten, but the fact that there were three heroes that made a deal with Donny Dozenhands is not common knowledge, as far as most of the heroes, and of course the town watch, the heroes just failed in catching them, and there is no relation whatsoever between the Wolfgang and Heroica. Also, because of the Wolfgang's intentions, do you think they not already have some people, or are trying to have people in important locations? They are a gang, sure, but certainly not a regular gang, their ambitions certainly prove that, among other things .

Just my views on things, I might be miles off what everybody else thinks, but I think you should be very careful how you present this sort of thing, because you don't wanna ruin any possible intrige and trickery the Wolfgang might have in store for us.

[Flipz]

The problem I have with your idea, Flipz, is this: Why would the Wolfgang take a big risk, and hire Heroes from Heroica to do it for them?

The way I view the Wolfgang, and I may be very off, is that they are a player that is not as powerful as the houses yet, but their influence is growing, and while they want to make sure people know they around, they would also be careful not to set off a major crackdown, by the six forces combined, which the Wolfgang would surely lose. As we all know, the Wolfgang's ultimate goal is to overthrow the houses in power (for whatever reason, and with whatever means), do you really think they would risk major attention by coming to Heroica for something like this? They would have to assume the information would get relayed through to at least one of the houses, as the houses (Hinckwells in particular) have Heroes that are loyal to them, and there is the unknown factor of the veterans, who we can only assume do what is best for the city, so would they not warn the houses if something like this was happening? Also, it's often forgotten, but the fact that there were three heroes that made a deal with Donny Dozenhands is not common knowledge, as far as most of the heroes, and of course the town watch, the heroes just failed in catching them, and there is no relation whatsoever between the Wolfgang and Heroica. Also, because of the Wolfgang's intentions, do you think they not already have some people, or are trying to have people in important locations? They are a gang, sure, but certainly not a regular gang, their ambitions certainly prove that, among other things .

Just my views on things, I might be miles off what everybody else thinks, but I think you should be very careful how you present this sort of thing, because you don't wanna ruin any possible intrige and trickery the Wolfgang might have in store for us.

Well, as Sandy said, the actual source of the request would have to be (thinly) disguised, perhaps as some sort of private firm or something of the like, something that would divert suspicion but still gain the interest of the Heroes who might favor the Wolfgang. And by hiring Heroica, the advantage would be twofold: first, the Heroes would be unlikely suspects in the eyes of the Houses, and second, they'd be simultaneously gaining a spy within whatever House they're trying to infiltrate, AND they'd be gaining more allies within Heroica.

The way I see it, in the Wolfgang's eyes, Heroica is like another House, but one that (unlike the other six) is disproportinately strong compared to the others. They'd want to turn as many Heroes as possible to their side before launching any major push against the established Houses. They don't like Heroica and the power it has, but as a somewhat mercenary organization they see ways of using it to their own ends and, in the long term, undermining it by "stealing" its Heroes (by making the Heroes loyal to them).

[Scubacarrot]

Well, as Sandy said, the actual source of the request would have to be (thinly) disguised, perhaps as some sort of private firm or something of the like, something that would divert suspicion but still gain the interest of the Heroes who might favor the Wolfgang. And by hiring Heroica, the advantage would be twofold: first, the Heroes would be unlikely suspects in the eyes of the Houses, and second, they'd be simultaneously gaining a spy within whatever House they're trying to infiltrate, AND they'd be gaining more allies within Heroica.

The way I see it, in the Wolfgang's eyes, Heroica is like another House, but one that (unlike the other six) is disproportinately strong compared to the others. They'd want to turn as many Heroes as possible to their side before launching any major push against the established Houses. They don't like Heroica and the power it has, but as a somewhat mercenary organization they see ways of using it to their own ends and, in the long term, undermining it by "stealing" its Heroes (by making the Heroes loyal to them).

I have to disagree with what you are saying in the first part of the second paragraph, the Houses are actively against the Wolfgang, and if worst would come to pass, they would probably unite for the very reason to get rid of them. But unless paid, the Heroes would not fight against the Wolfgang, they have nothing directly to gain (At this point). Heroica is not seen as a seventh House, I think, it's way too diverse for that, plus, there is no direct sense of loyalty in all of the heroes. For example, if Guts was to fight simply "for" Heroica, against the Wolfgang, he would say: "Yeah, good luck with that, i'm on my way to Salmanda".

I could definitely look forward to a big event with the Wolfgang against one or multiple houses, and heroes having to choose where to side, and the Wolfgang is of course trying to get Heroes to their side, not sure if it's working at the moment, though. So far all we know is that they want to be rid of the Houses in power, which is a good idea (in Guts's eyes), but you would say one would do that is to make the city safer, better, fairer to the people, but the Wolfgang is not "noble" in any way(that we have seen ), they are criminals themselves, let's not forget that. The only heroes that had a run in that did not end in violence were of course Haldor, Skrall and En Sabah Nur, but all what happened is they got paid off, not exactly loyalty inspiring, I would say.

[Flipz]

I have to disagree with what you are saying in the first part of the second paragraph, the Houses are actively against the Wolfgang, and if worst would come to pass, they would probably unite for the very reason to get rid of them. But unless paid, the Heroes would not fight against the Wolfgang, they have nothing directly to gain (At this point). Heroica is not seen as a seventh House, I think, it's way too diverse for that, plus, there is no direct sense of loyalty in all of the heroes. For example, if Guts was to fight simply "for" Heroica, against the Wolfgang, he would say: "Yeah, good luck with that, i'm on my way to Salmanda".

I could definitely look forward to a big event with the Wolfgang against one or multiple houses, and heroes having to choose where to side, and the Wolfgang is of course trying to get Heroes to their side, not sure if it's working at the moment, though. So far all we know is that they want to be rid of the Houses in power, which is a good idea (in Guts's eyes), but you would say one would do that is to make the city safer, better, fairer to the people, but the Wolfgang is not "noble" in any way(that we have seen ), they are criminals themselves, let's not forget that. The only heroes that had a run in that did not end in violence were of course Haldor, Skrall and En Sabah Nur, but all what happened is they got paid off, not exactly loyalty inspiring, I would say.

Remember, I'm saying "in the eyes of the Wolfgang". The Wolfgang want all of the power for themselves, and Heroica is a major power player in Eubric; they aren't a House in the traditional sense, but if you want to take down all the power players in Eubric you either need to destroy or otherwise neutralize Heroica. They would, naturally, be on the Wolfgang's "hit list" like any of the six Houses; in that way, they are like another House to the Wolfgang. That's what I was trying to get across; like you said, for all other purposes, they are NOT House-like.

I couldn't quite understand your second paragraph, but in my point of view, money in Eubric can breed loyalty just as much as anything else. The Wolfgang are a reliable payday for Haldor, Skrall, and Nur, and though I don't know if that would breed loyalty in-character, from a theoretical point of view, the kind of Heroes who accept bribes for an easy payday are relatively easily enticed to serve the Wolfgang. In the Wolfgang's eyes, a constant stream of Gold would be enough to ensure those Heroes' "loyalty."

[Scubacarrot]

Remember, I'm saying "in the eyes of the Wolfgang". The Wolfgang want all of the power for themselves, and Heroica is a major power player in Eubric; they aren't a House in the traditional sense, but if you want to take down all the power players in Eubric you either need to destroy or otherwise neutralize Heroica. They would, naturally, be on the Wolfgang's "hit list" like any of the six Houses; in that way, they are like another House to the Wolfgang. That's what I was trying to get across; like you said, for all other purposes, they are NOT House-like.

I couldn't quite understand your second paragraph, but in my point of view, money in Eubric can breed loyalty just as much as anything else. The Wolfgang are a reliable payday for Haldor, Skrall, and Nur, and though I don't know if that would breed loyalty in-character, from a theoretical point of view, the kind of Heroes who accept bribes for an easy payday are relatively easily enticed to serve the Wolfgang. In the Wolfgang's eyes, a constant stream of Gold would be enough to ensure those Heroes' "loyalty."

Hmm, I'm not sure I agree with how you see the Wolfgang, take it from me "All Power" is not exactly the Wolfgang's exact motive for their actions, which is a very significant thing to remember

[Flipz]

Hmm, I'm not sure I agree with how you see the Wolfgang, take it from me "All Power" is not exactly the Wolfgang's exact motive for their actions, which is a very significant thing to remember

Hmm...OK, I'll keep that in mind.

Also:

Uh, Dak? She's down.

Can't. Stop. Giggling!

[Darth Nihilus]

Can't. Stop. Giggling!

I hate my frickin' internet.

[Palathadric]

Is it just me or are the rogues on quest 34 the luckiest bunch of heroes ever?

[Capt.JohnPaul]

"Mmm, sure! I'd love to help you out, boys!" the questionable lady says with a gruff, low voice. "How about I help you out in those bushes over there, handsome?"

The "woman" winks at Dyric and motions him to follow "her" to the shrubbery. "I promise I'll make it worth your while, hottie."

How will Dyric respond?

ROFL!

Dyric is visibly shocked. Oh... um... I... uh... no thank you, sir- I mean ma'am- I mean... uh... you see, we're in a terrible rush, and you're not... my... look, I don't mean to sound rude or anything, I really don't. It's just we really need to be at this meeting. Look.... uh... I've got gold. I can compensate you. And if not that, then, uh, one of my friends here will be perfectly willing to go with you. You'd like them better anyways. Just, uh, have you seen anyone else come though here recently? I'm really sorry.

Oh, I'm curious to what would've happened if Dyric said "yes!" He so should've tried.

[Palathadric]

ROFL!

Oh, I'm curious to what would've happened if Dyric said "yes!" He so should've tried.

Och, yes! He so should have.

I liked how guts gave the womanly objects to the other two!

[JimBee]

QM Note: I just noticed a slight problem with Alexis' flute' date=' Masked Builder. The sleep-effect works on enemies in a different way than it does on heroes; sleeping enemies will be inactive for three rounds unless woken up by an attack. However, how the fast asleep -effect works on enemies has not been defined. I can always extend the number of rounds the effect stays, but in a weapon that's pretty futile, so the simplest solution would be to change your flute to only causing the normal sleep-effect. Would that be alright with you?[/quote']

I guess I didn't take that into account when creating the item, sorry. Still, though, if Alexis were to fight another PC the "Fast Asleep" effect would occur instead of the "Asleep" effect. Then there would be a difference, so why not leave it as "Fast Asleep"? Then again I would be okay with changing it if it made things easier.

By the way, I see that the item is not in the Treasury. CallMePieOrDie, if you want to add it here's the description.

Flute of the Magi (WP:3 allows user to play soothing song, puts enemies Fast Asleep if Shield, Hit, or Critical Hit is rolled. Suitable for Clerics and Mages)

[CMP]

Thanks, JimB.

[JimBee]

Ooh, Hybros would pay a handsome sum for those Diseased Flying Fish Wings.

[Sisco]

Alright, I finally have Assassin Jess!

[Flipz]

Don't you just love it when a perfect roleplaying opportunity just drops into your lap?

Also:

Alright, I finally have Assassin Jess!

Yes! Finally one of you I can actually build without having to buy specific sets!

Although if I may make a suggestion, I think she'd look really nice with Hawkeye's legs. It's a minor change, and Hawkeye's legs don't have a lot of detail, but I have a feeling it'd work really well.

[Scorpiox]

Alright, I finally have Assassin Jess!

I know for sure I can build this one...

[Sandy]

Alright, I finally have Assassin Jess!

Not bad, I just have two minor gripes with it:

1) She looks very modern, like some detective woman from a police tv-series, who just happens to carry two swords.

2) Other than my character and zakura's Mizuki, every other female player character in this game has dark brown hair. A little variety wouldn't hurt.

But if you want to keep her like that, it's of course up to you. This is just the perfectionist in me talking.

Oh, I'm curious to what would've happened if Dyric said "yes!" He so should've tried.

Now you will never know, thanks to Dyric. The title of the quest is "the dark secret", after all.