Darkdragon Posted June 5, 2012 Posted June 5, 2012 @darkdragon: Those claws are an amazing drop. I need some. Thanks! One of a kind set. Quote
CMP Posted June 5, 2012 Posted June 5, 2012 I like it. It's like the one in WBD's quest, but you get to choose between the effects rather than having to wield it as a weapon. Quest 27 has had some of the most interesting drops so far. Quote
Tanma Posted June 5, 2012 Posted June 5, 2012 I am replying here because I did not have an IC, and I despise complete OOC posts with apassion. So that the heroes in Quest 31 don't know the details, the NPC's will be given aliases. OoC: Read his one other item. Also, just warning you in advance, I love that you're planning, but you'll all have to fight until the end. Dropping the NPCs will not end the fight. One team giving up will result in their NPC being killed. But if both teams give up simultaneously, then only the first NPC to fall will die. Who would kill the other NPC? You could pull Wren interference, but then the feeling that the Dastan Quests are railroading the players only increases. There are some other escape routes here as well. For instance, Atramor states that he is willing to attack heroes who side with the other NPC. So if the heroes of Quest 29 on Nifty-Hat's side stop fighting, he could continue. Nix, William, and Tarn might continue as well, though they have yet to say whether or not they will fight the other heroes. So effectively the two heroes on Badgermum's side could fight Nifty-Hat and Atramor (plus or minus Tarn, William, and Nyx) if Badgermum fell, and Atramor (and possibly Nyx/William/Tarn) could still fight Badgermum and company if Nifty-Hat fell. Since heroes do have the ability to do nothing in a round, as I recall seeing in the past, the heroes of Quest 29 on Nifty-Hats side could just sit back and not fight. Quote
Zepher Posted June 5, 2012 Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) Sometimes you do what the QM asks. I'm giving you fair warning because I don't want you to plan and then "fail" after "succeeding". The NPCs will fall to a KO, just like anyone else in a fight. At the end of the fight, just like everyone else, they'd be brought back to 1/X health. Unless their entire team was defeated, thus failing their "objective". You are as free as anyone to sit out the fight. That was one of the options given, and one of the options that was taken. And sorry, I've edited this post like five times at this point so as to make my point clear and also not appear rude. The Quest Masters put ridiculous amounts of time into planning quests. We try to offer certain amounts of freedom. I have created two side quests already this Quest that were totally unplanned because people chose to go places. I even rewrote 1/7th of my quest because of the choice that one of my players made. But sometimes we say: sorry, game mechanics say we want you to fight until one of the teams are defeated, and we are expecting that. We put in hours writing a story, and when the characters say "look, the Emperors are boring, can't we go find the 15 magical rats of Dastan instead?", well, it throws us for a loop. I have to take pictures of all these sets, write all this dialogue, and know where the quest is going. In video games, you are given an objective, you complete it. Here we offer more freedom, but the point is still the same, there is a story, you follow it, complete objectives, and we try our hardest to let you do what you want to do within those confines. Edited June 5, 2012 by Zepher Quote
Tanma Posted June 5, 2012 Posted June 5, 2012 I can understand doing what the Questmaster says, but this seems...illogical. The way it seems designed is quite...cynical, you can only make one decision, you can't change it, you can't decide to stop. It kind of throws off the sense of being a part of the game, because you can't change your mind or think outside the box. Instead you only have a few moves and can not reverse them once decided, while humans in real life can adapt and can change their plans depending on what occurs. And based on what many members of Quest 29 have said, there is no logical reason for them to fight each other once this is over. While I understand under most circumstances a player will eventually have to fight, I am suggesting that those who wish to stop do so, and let their allies duel. If their allies win they never have to move a muscle. I believe it has been mentioned that a hero can pass up their turn in a battle, though usually doing so would earn the ire of their comrades. De'kra can actually do one better, as a Rogue he could flee the battle at any time, and remove himself completely. And anyone with a smoke bomb could remove their entire side as well, and since I assume the NPC's can't resurrect themselves, they still will be dead regardless if the other group flee. Quote
Zepher Posted June 5, 2012 Posted June 5, 2012 Ah. I believe I've misunderstood you. You're right, all mechanics of a normal battle will be allowed. Smoke bombs, flees and all the things you may normally do are 100% allowed, as is passing up a turn. I'm just telling you, if both sides flee the battle, then it will revert to a 50/50 chance of the revived NPCs dying. The NPCs can't ressurect themselves... except in the same way that players can. When the battle ends, they return to "being alive", with one health. Unless their whole team falls, or flees, which is the same as losing the battle, you're right. Quote
Tanma Posted June 5, 2012 Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) Ah. I believe I've misunderstood you. You're right, all mechanics of a normal battle will be allowed. Smoke bombs, flees and all the things you may normally do are 100% allowed, as is passing up a turn. I'm just telling you, if both sides flee the battle, then it will revert to a 50/50 chance of the revived NPCs dying. The NPCs can't ressurect themselves... except in the same way that players can. When the battle ends, they return to "being alive", with one health. Unless their whole team falls, or flees, which is the same as losing the battle, you're right. Ah, okay then. I see where you are coming from then. I just want to know one thing though, will there be other battles for the members of Quest 29 after this? Just curious, if one was to compare and constrast this discussion with the one about the meeting of Quest 31 and 29, is my tone less defensive here? I realize the text samples are fewer and smaller, but is there enough for a verdict? Edited June 5, 2012 by Tanma Quote
Bricksandparts Posted June 5, 2012 Posted June 5, 2012 Ok, what is up with Drake being a stalker now? Quote
Zepher Posted June 5, 2012 Posted June 5, 2012 I do want to apologize Tanma. I just went for a relatively quick and totally unrelated walk, but I did think about our conversation, and I do hope that I didn't come off as angry, because I wasn't, just explaining my stance. Please, ALWAYS try to outwit the QM within the mechanics of the game. I thought you were refusing the scenario by changing the rules, whereas you're refusing the scenario by following the rules. The first one would bother me, the second one is admirable. Quote
CMP Posted June 5, 2012 Posted June 5, 2012 Ok, what is up with Drake being a stalker now? About the same time Alf started riding dragons, possibly. Quote
Chromeknight Posted June 5, 2012 Posted June 5, 2012 Reason for continuing to fight? One word: EXP. And this, I think hits my (unexpressed) frustration with the set up. Heroica has been, mostly, a team game. A party advances or falls together. It's rare for a KOd player to be left that way if there are options to bring them back,so they don't miss out on xp, loot is shared pretty much evenly... But here, one group of heroes will miss out on the xp and have their health knocked down despite cooperating with the QM's set up and making valid and well argued roleplaying choices. Yes the set up is interesting, and it advances the plot, and it's what some before the quest were frothing about. And it doesn't make sense that the loses get rewarded anyway. So I'm not really sure how to address the feeling of missing out because I didn't side with the majority and create a boring uneven battle. Perhaps seeing badgermum last more that one round is reward enough. Quote
CMP Posted June 5, 2012 Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) I don't see it that way. It's a player's choice between roleplaying and EXP - if the character calls for it, sometimes you can have both. And I have a feeling this isn't going to be a one-sided battle, in any case. Edited June 5, 2012 by CallMePie Quote
Tanma Posted June 5, 2012 Posted June 5, 2012 I do want to apologize Tanma. I just went for a relatively quick and totally unrelated walk, but I did think about our conversation, and I do hope that I didn't come off as angry, because I wasn't, just explaining my stance. Please, ALWAYS try to outwit the QM within the mechanics of the game. I thought you were refusing the scenario by changing the rules, whereas you're refusing the scenario by following the rules. The first one would bother me, the second one is admirable. Thank you, and no you did not seem angry at all. Although I am not a mod (and frankly couldn't handle the stress. I admire anyone who can actually take that stress, and still return for a second or third mastering) I have to agree that I enjoy seeing Moderators and Players trying to outwit each other using the moderator's own rules. That is probably why I enjoy Darth's and Droids, the two sides are constantly adapting and outwitting each other, to the point where the whole RPG changed direction. I sometimes wonder what would have happened if the heroes of Quest 4 had turned on Issac at the end. The Brobric/Lion war might not have happened, and the Knights might not have grown so proud to attack Dastan. If the heroes hadn't thought about the situation more, they could have completely changed the Dastan Quests and possibly destroyed Quest 17 entirely. So I have to ask, did the three of you have a plan if we had realized what the Shadeaux had done? Quote
Scorpiox Posted June 5, 2012 Posted June 5, 2012 I don't see it that way. It's a player's choice between roleplaying and EXP - if the character calls for it, sometimes you can have both. And I have a feeling this isn't going to be a one-sided battle, in any case. Exactly. I let Zepher down Haldor before the fight with the vampires. I was my choice to let him, and I didn't ask to be revived. Because Haldor couldn't fight vampires, so he went down so he wouldn't have to hus sacrficing experiance for roleplay. In the end, it is their choice what to do. Quote
posades Posted June 5, 2012 Posted June 5, 2012 Couldn't this fight go on indefinitely if both sides choose not do anything each round (after certain individuals have been KO-ed...)? Quote
Zepher Posted June 5, 2012 Posted June 5, 2012 Naw, don't worry, I'll bow over to the players eventually if that's the case. I just wish there wasn't all this debate. Critique us later, please. It throws a wrench in the quest hosting process if there's a huge uproar while you're hosting and try to introduce something new. I sometimes wonder what would have happened if the heroes of Quest 4 had turned on Issac at the end. The Brobric/Lion war might not have happened, and the Knights might not have grown so proud to attack Dastan. If the heroes hadn't thought about the situation more, they could have completely changed the Dastan Quests and possibly destroyed Quest 17 entirely. So I have to ask, did the three of you have a plan if we had realized what the Shadeaux had done? And you give us far too much credit. We planned ahead from early January, I believe. The Dastan Quests were planned after Issac had already done his thing. I don't know what BDs plan was if you figured things out. I will tell you that a number of things from previous Wren Quests will come into play in the final one, and that previous actions will be accounted for. So far, of the NPCs in the WRen Quests who reoccur, Poletad could have been lost once, Hans once, McColt once, and Felton twice. Those actions carry over and would have effected the story line for the following quests in varying degrees. Quote
Palathadric Posted June 5, 2012 Posted June 5, 2012 Get it over with already! Fight! Fight! Fight! Quote
RPGer Posted June 5, 2012 Posted June 5, 2012 Get it over with already! Fight! Fight! Fight! That's Pretzel-like. Quote
Tanma Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) Get it over with already! Fight! Fight! Fight! No wait, I have another suggestion. Perhaps the identity of the true foe can be deduced by recounting word for word everything Nifty-Hat and Badgermum has ever done and said, including prior quests. The heroes should think long and hard about this after all... But on a serious note, what did Tarn and William get, and why do I think that De'kra is going to react badly too it? Edited June 6, 2012 by Tanma Quote
RPGer Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) No wait, I have another suggestion. Perhaps the identity of the true foe can be deduced by recounting word for word everything Nifty-Hat and Badgermum has ever done and said, including prior quests. The heroes should think long and hard about this after all... But on a serious note, what did Tarn and William get, and why do I think that De'kra is going to react badly too it? Extremely powerful bombs. EDIT: Constance has three SP, so if Nyx and Tarn throw their bombs, Team Constance will be knocked out. Edited June 6, 2012 by RPGer Quote
posades Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 No need to waste their bombs on a battle like this amirite...... Quote
CMP Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 Those bombs do 30 damage to the enemy party and 10 damage to the friendly party, ignoring SP/Row. One hit knockout. Quote
JimBee Posted June 6, 2012 Posted June 6, 2012 We did just go over why people not in the quest should keep their strategies to themselves, no? Quote
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