Heroica RPG General Discussion

[JimBee]

I like the cap how it is. Granting more artifact space for players 30+ would grant them even more power, in addition to the already powerful expert classes. When will it reach a point where characters are invincible? Allowing more artifact space, in addition to shields, special weapons, and AC and EC bonuses, will make the game very easy. And then it will become less fun, IMO.

[CMP]

...AC and EC bonuses....

Er...what's that?

As heroes get more powerful, though, so do the enemies. We already have one whose special damage is simply an instant KO. I can only imagine the hordes of opponents we'd be battling at level 50, and the only glimpse we have at them is the Shield set up for the level 50 Dragoon, the example of which has it dealing 450 elemental damage to all opponents.

I see what you mean, though, and I suppose there would be strategy in having to switch out what artifacts you have equipped mid-battle.

[Capt.JohnPaul]

Er...what's that?

As heroes get more powerful, though, so do the enemies. We already have one whose special damage is simply an instant KO. I can only imagine the hordes of opponents we'd be battling at level 50, and the only glimpse we have at them is the Shield set up for the level 50 Dragoon, the example of which has it dealing 450 elemental damage to all opponents.

I see what you mean, though, and I suppose there would be strategy in having to switch out what artifacts you have equipped mid-battle.

Advanced class and expert class.

[Scubacarrot]

Okay, an explanation.

What JimB says is true: If you expand the artifact cap: Powerful players will become more powerful, while the less powerful(or the heroes without artifacts) stay the same. Widening the gap. If you want to maintain balance, this is a bad move.

The way it is now, a player has in theory three or four modifiers by their stats and class: Weapon (shield) and two artifacts. Adding one more artifact makes it obviously harder to keep track of stuff, and more mistakes will be made.

Having only two slots for artifacts adds a layer of customization and choice to the game. I don't think I have to elaborate on that. This is obviously a very positive thing.

I don't know about other QM's, but I design artifacts around the fact that they are limited in both use and availability. Having one more throws the balance off.

I have seen NO reason to expand the amount of artifacts. That we will "soon be swimming in them" is kinda a pointless argument, as no one forces you to keep them. A way to sell them would be nice, though.

[CMP]

Okay, an explanation.

explanation

All relevant points, but I don't think the first is fair: the longer you play, the more powerful you get, with no exceptions. Also, I don't think anyone's going to get rid of artifacts unless they trade or sell them to other players.

My primary reason for bringing this up is the fact that soon, they're going to be widely available and that some of the only occasionally useful ones will become obsolete. One example is Haldor. He has 3 artifacts, 2 of which are useful no matter what, one of which only helps in certain situations (Paper Doll). Even if he gets into a fight where the opponent can deal the Hexed effect on special damage, he's unlikely to take the turn needed to put the artifact on. (I probably wouldn't, anyway ) Essentially, it's just useless, even though it could save him at some point.

It's your third point that kind of goes along with what I'm saying - if the cap is at two artifacts, the hero's almost always just going to pick the one with the most generic, well-rounded power, rather than the interesting one-off artifacts that could come in handy in specific situations and build characterization.

For your fifth point, again, we're going to be able to buy certain artifacts at some point in the future, and it's unlikely to be stocking the most powerful, useful ones that come up in quests, and once everyone has two artifacts it's going to be sort of pointless despite all the interesting stuff that shows up, so heroes are just going to keep putting their gold in the same stuff - consumables and weapon upgrades. Which is fine, I just think the flavor of extra artifacts would be interesting.

Again, this is just for the sake of having something to discuss, not a serious suggestion. Interesting to see others' opinions.

[Scubacarrot]

All relevant points, but I don't think the first is fair: the longer you play, the more powerful you get, with no exceptions. Also, I don't think anyone's going to get rid of artifacts unless they trade or sell them to other players.

My primary reason for bringing this up is the fact that soon, they're going to be widely available and that some of the only occasionally useful ones will become obsolete. One example is Haldor. He has 3 artifacts, 2 of which are useful no matter what, one of which only helps in certain situations (Paper Doll). Even if he gets into a fight where the opponent can deal the Hexed effect on special damage, he's unlikely to take the turn needed to put the artifact on. (I probably wouldn't, anyway ) Essentially, it's just useless, even though it could save him at some point.

It's your third point that kind of goes along with what I'm saying - if the cap is at two artifacts, the hero's almost always just going to pick the one with the most generic, well-rounded power, rather than the interesting one-off artifacts that could come in handy in specific situations and build characterization.

For your fifth point, again, we're going to be able to buy certain artifacts at some point in the future, and it's unlikely to be stocking the most powerful, useful ones that come up in quests, and once everyone has two artifacts it's going to be sort of pointless despite all the interesting stuff that shows up, so heroes are just going to keep putting their gold in the same stuff - consumables and weapon upgrades. Which is fine, I just think the flavor of extra artifacts would be interesting.

Again, this is just for the sake of having something to discuss, not a serious suggestion. Interesting to see others' opinions.

But you DO get more powerful, but there does not need to be another way to get more powerful, to upset the balance for NO reason. There are also people that have been playing long and still don't have any artifacts, and while it's not a great argument, it's very true that it would upset balance. Wouldn't you agree?

As for your point about not being able to take the turn, I was under the impression that you could not switch artifacts in battle at all. I think I'm wrong, but I think that only underlines what I'm saying. But here is the thing though, it may be useless in most cases, but if there is a fight that revolves around that mechanic, he is incredibly powerful all of a sudden. And here is where my third point comes in: It's about choice, if you want to take the risk of not having a static bonus and being immune to something, that's a very viable thing to have, it's a risk/reward thing. And yes: If I were fighting a (powerful) enemy that has a status special, hell yes I would spend the turn equipping something that would make sure I would not turn useless.

Perhaps we have not gotten to that point where such a decision is viable, it's entirely possible. And yes, I would like to see fights revolve around mechanics like that, I don't think a special that instantly knocks a hero out makes for a very interesting fight, mechanics wise. (no offence).

And I don't think it's a bad thing that people spend their gold on weapons and consumables (in the marketplace, I've figured out all the cool things you can buy for gold happen on quests, it seems). If I understand Sandy's intention, the artifact shop is not meant as the defining place to acquire artifacts, but rather as supplementary for people that for some reason haven't acquired any or just have gold to spend.

If you have a large pool of them, I again fail to see how it requires an expansion of the slots, you are not asking for more weapon slots or something too, right? Right? I think you can treat the artifacts the same way.

[JimBee]

I would also like to point out that Sandy has hinted that the artifacts available for purchase next month will be extremely expensive, I think she said Guts would be one of the few who could afford one. So for people choosing the most well-rounded and powerful artifacts, it will cost them an arm and a leg to do so.

[CMP]

Snip

That all makes sense. And no, I was suggesting something like you're able to equip more than 2 artifacts as time goes on. As for the artifact switching thing, I think it just takes a turn to switch them in battle.

I would also like to point out that Sandy has hinted that the artifacts available for purchase next month will be extremely expensive, I think she said Guts would be one of the few who could afford one. So for people choosing the most well-rounded and powerful artifacts, it will cost them an arm and a leg to do so.

I meant that the artifacts like that probably wouldn't be stocked at all, and the lesser-used ones wouldn't get much attention because of the reason you can only carry two and a hero who could afford an artifact would probably already have 2 really good ones.

[Sisco]

Perhaps we have not gotten to that point where such a decision is viable, it's entirely possible. And yes, I would like to see fights revolve around mechanics like that, I don't think a special that instantly knocks a hero out makes for a very interesting fight, mechanics wise. (no offence).

I think that the only reason he mentioned that special is because WBD has an enemy in quest 28 that can do that.

[Scubacarrot]

I think that the only reason he mentioned that special is because WBD has an enemy in quest 28 that can do that.

I am aware.

[LEGOman273]

We have weapon slots?

I think that the number of Artifacts that can be equiped should go up with time. Other stats (HP, Power, etc) go up with time, so why not add an additional Artifact slot per this plan:

Levels 1 - 14: 2 Artifacts

Levels 15 - 29: 3 Artifacts

Levels 30 - 49: 4 Artifacts

Levels 50+ :5 Artifacts

Or something of this sort.

[Scubacarrot]

We have weapon slots?

I think that the number of Artifacts that can be equiped should go up with time. Other stats (HP, Power, etc) go up with time, so why not add an additional Artifact slot per this plan:

Levels 1 - 14: 2 Artifacts

Levels 15 - 29: 3 Artifacts

Levels 30 - 49: 4 Artifacts

Levels 50+ :5 Artifacts

Or something of this sort.

I just explained why that is a terrible idea in dept....

[CMP]

Scuba was joking, and again, it wasn't an actual suggestion.

[LEGOman273]

Scuba was joking, and again, it wasn't an actual suggestion.

Oh.

[Darth Nihilus]

.....is the Shield set up for the level 50 Dragoon, the example of which has it dealing 450 elemental damage to all opponents.....

And thus, the lowly bandit is buffed to Lvl 60 with 2000 HP...... He needs to be, to survive that.

[CMP]

And thus, the lowly bandit is buffed to Lvl 60 with 2000 HP...... He needs to be, to survive that.

What's a deadly Chimera now could get ravaged by a rat in a few years when we're all level 50s.

[Darkdragon]

Years?! I'd love to see where the game and veteran players are in say 5 years, that will be interesting indeed.

[CMP]

Years?! I'd love to see where the game and veteran players are in say 5 years, that will be interesting indeed.

Unless this never-ending-battle mentioned deals out experience, we'll have to wait that long to reach those levels. About 30-40 battles is probably the average for a year playing Heroica. So, yes, 4 years until anyone whose joined reaches level 50, at least, unless some new mechanic shows up.

[Darkdragon]

Unless this never-ending-battle mentioned deals out experience, we'll have to wait that long to reach those levels. About 30-40 battles is probably the average for a year playing Heroica. So, yes, 4 years until anyone whose joined reaches level 50, at least, unless some new mechanic shows up.

Never thought of it that way, but yeah you are right. It will be a very exciting day when someone reaches 50, I'm already excited to see who will be first!

[CMP]

I think Tesni has a lead so far, but 4 years is a long time for someone to catch up.

[posades]

How about a regressive scale for artifact wearing, i.e. levels 1-15 would be able to equip 4 (on different body parts), 15-30 could equip 3 and 30+ would be able to equip 2? This way it makes it slightly more feasible to have larger level gaps within groups and still make the enemies challenging for everyone.

[Scubacarrot]

I think the "unlimited battle quest" should help a bit with levelling, if I'm slightly correct in how it's going to work

I don't know how it works, but here is what I hope:

The setting could be caverns under Eubric or something along those lines. With a setting like that, you can have virtually unlimited scenes and different kinds of battles. We can have secret caverns fulled with critters, hidden safehouses of Eubric's gangmembers, forgotten crypts with roaming undead, or whatever!

I'd imagine it work like this: You fight 5(or any number, 5 just seems reasonable) battles back to back, with either no or little time to prepare inbetween. After the "block" of fights, people have the ability to drop in or out. I think there may not be a static number of players required, but there should be a minimum (3?) and a maximum (6,7,8?).

Rewards would either be a reward at the end of the block that is always the same (money, consumables?), or just consumables. Of course you always get experience, which would be the biggest draw. I don't think adding regular items is a great idea, it would cause some people to no longer go on quests, I can tell you that for a fact.

With a system like this, you can eventually use it to screen future QM's. Allow them to create one block of battles, with pictures and everything. Because that's what it would be, A quest without story, basically. If you keep the setting open like I said earlier, anyone would be able to contribute, eventually.

What do other people think?

Edited July 6, 2012 by Scubacarrot

[CMP]

That sounds like something I could get into. Might throw some battles into the ring myself, if it's possible. I honestly wouldn't mind a reward system, like the arena - instead of getting direct rewards, you get points or something, which you can either trade in to some ratio for gold or for consumables.

[Endgame]

I apologize for all the stab wounds and concussions I am making you inflict on yourself, Capt.

I ask all the wrong questions.

[Capt.JohnPaul]

I apologize for all the stab wounds and concussions I am making you inflict on yourself, Capt.

I ask all the wrong questions.

I try to give subtle clues to help you on what to do. I just gave you, like 3 most blatantly obvious ones in the entire quest. I just want to shrivel up and die.