Heroica RPG General Discussion

[CMP]

Oh, I thought the random letter pull was literally pulling a random letter out of the real Priest's description like the Death Progg battle.

[Scorpiox]

We have a forum now, woohoo!

[JimBee]

...

That would make pretty much all Mage-suitable weapons with special abilities next to useless, though...

Well if, say, the Lullaby Wand could use its special ability through spell-casting... well it would be a very powerful item.

[Jedi master Brick]

That is one tough battle Jeb . We are so screwed.

[Jebediahs]

That is one tough battle Jeb . We are so screwed.

Good luck.

[Masked Builder]

It's also why Masked Builder should sell it someone who'd get more use out of it...

And what if I have plans for it?

[Rumble Strike]

Now that we have a subforum, do you all think it may be a good idea to have a thread dedicated for player trades and sales for weapons/artifacts/consumables? I think with the speed that the Heroica Hall topic moves, it can be difficult for people to see any opportunities being presented.

[TheBoyWonder]

Now that we have a subforum, do you all think it may be a good idea to have a thread dedicated for player trades and sales for weapons/artifacts/consumables? I think with the speed that the Heroica Hall topic moves, it can be difficult for people to see any opportunities being presented.

I have to agree, and think it would be a fantastic idea.

[Zepher]

Excellent use of Ella, Rumble Strike! You stuck to her character, and used her well!

[CorneliusMurdock]

That still makes them useless against undead. Which suddenly makes this battle a LOT harder.

Really all we need is for one of us with a light attack to hit him each round. Now that we're all encouraged, that's a tidy bit of damage to him from any of us.

[Zepher]

I've always assumed that weapons with effects use their effect even with spells. That's why we channel spells through specific weapons.

[Rumble Strike]

Excellent use of Ella, Rumble Strike! You stuck to her character, and used her well!

Thanks Zeph, I am glad you think so because I realised after I wrote it all out that I didn't ask your permission to use her

I have to commend Scubacarrot as well, whose roleplaying gave such a good opportunity for me to literally play out the struggles within Tarn at the moment.

[Brickdoctor]

Now that we have a subforum, do you all think it may be a good idea to have a thread dedicated for player trades and sales for weapons/artifacts/consumables? I think with the speed that the Heroica Hall topic moves, it can be difficult for people to see any opportunities being presented.

You are allowed to post your trades in the Marketplace, too. (or at least I think you can - it's been a while since I sold that first Fang Dagger in the Marketplace after Q1)

I've always assumed that weapons with effects use their effect even with spells. That's why we channel spells through specific weapons.

Same here.

[CMP]

I don't think that's how it works, Althior wasn't able to use the dual attacking effect of the Twin Sai.

And what if I have plans for it?

Then sell it already and quit getting my hopes up.

[Flipz]

I've always assumed that weapons with effects use their effect even with spells. That's why we channel spells through specific weapons.

Same here.

Exactly. If the weapon was not meant to influence the spell, why do we add WP to spell power, anyway--why don't spells just always do damage equal to Hero level?

I don't think that's how it works, Althior wasn't able to use the dual attacking effect of the Twin Sai.

And that's why I was majorly confused when that happened--it didn't really make sense to me.

Perhaps there is a solution--weapons useable by Mages still apply their special abilities to spell attacks, and weapons designed for other classes don't? That would sort of make sense... (even though it would still render the Cat O' Nine Tails rather useless to me )

[CMP]

Exactly. If the weapon was not meant to influence the spell, why do we add WP to spell power, anyway--why don't spells just always do damage equal to Hero level?

That'd be underpowered, I think.

And that's why I was majorly confused when that happened--it didn't really make sense to me.

Perhaps there is a solution--weapons useable by Mages still apply their special abilities to spell attacks, and weapons designed for other classes don't? That would sort of make sense... (even though it would still render the Cat O' Nine Tails rather useless to me )

I'm pretty sure the Battle Mage and Mystic Knight Shield skills have combinations of elemental and physical damage, which probably includes special effects. But you have a point, I think the Book of a Thousand Creatures applies to spells, and that does make sense.

[Sandy]

I've always assumed that weapons with effects use their effect even with spells. That's why we channel spells through specific weapons.

No, weapon effects do not apply to spells. A mage with a Lullaby Wand can either cast a spell OR make a sleep-inducing attack. A mage with "dual strike" on his weapon can still only cast one spell on one enemy. Likewise, spells do not gain any elemental affinities that the mage's weapon has. Encouraged, lucky and hastened do apply to spells as well, since they are cast on the hero, not the weapon.

Sorry I haven't realized this contradiction before, but I always intended that spells only uses the POWER of weapons, not any effects or elements they have. I want to keep magic and physical attacks two different things.

Maybe I should clarify this in the FAQ...?

[Quarryman]

No, weapon effects do not apply to spells. A mage with a Lullaby Wand can either cast a spell OR make a sleep-inducing attack. Likewise, spells do not gain any elemental affinities that the mage's weapon has. Encouraged, lucky and hastened do apply to spells as well, since they are cast on the hero, not the weapon.

Sorry I haven't realized this contradiction before, but I always intended that spells only uses the POWER of weapons, not any effects or elements they have. I want to keep magic and physical attacks two different things.

Maybe I should clarify this in the FAQ...?

Interestingly enough I was certain you had clarified this way back when Namyrra first got the Lullaby Wand, but I went back and read through the pages after she got it and nothing was said. So I wonder where I got that from..

[Zepher]

Maybe I should clarify this in the FAQ...?

You most certainly should! I (and many others) have been doing it wrong for nearly a year now. That actually levels the playing field significantly, and I like that rule a lot, I just didn't know it existed!

[Flipz]

No, weapon effects do not apply to spells. A mage with a Lullaby Wand can either cast a spell OR make a sleep-inducing attack. Likewise, spells do not gain any elemental affinities that the mage's weapon has. Encouraged, lucky and hastened do apply to spells as well, since they are cast on the hero, not the weapon.

Sorry I haven't realized this contradiction before, but I always intended that spells only uses the POWER of weapons, not any effects or elements they have. I want to keep magic and physical attacks two different things.

Maybe I should clarify this in the FAQ...?

No offense, but that's really lousy. I mean, that makes Mages the ONLY class for which "unique" weapons are nerfed. Once again, this forces Mages to go on the hunt for ALL gems if they want to be effective in battle, rather than building up their abilities via unique weapons and scrolls and the like. I don't want a cool character who turns into a cookie-cutter character on the field of battle, I want a character who is unique both in-battle and out. Also note that this dramatically nerfs mages who have to fight undead--after all, most special-effect weapons are not imbued, and seriously, what mage would choose to give up spellcasting for a given element JUST so they can use a special ability on undead? It'd have to be a damn awesome special, and such a weapon would be a prime target for nerfing anyway.

I understand weapons with offensive abilities (i.e. the Lullaby Wand with its Sleep-effect) and elementally-imbued weapons not having a special effect on spells, just for balance, but what about passive Specials (like the Cultist Staff's 50% chance of fleeing on a K.O. hit)? I don't see how that should be affected by whether or not I'm using a spell. It actually renders that awesome special ability useless, as no Mage would want to have to fight from the Front Row to physically attack with the staff if they were in danger of being K.O.'d; they would want to stay in the back, casting spells at full strength. Thus, the staff's special ability has NO chance of ever being used.

IMO, it would work a LOT better if effects on weapons suitable for Mages would still work on a spell roll, or at the very least passive Specials on weapons (i.e. the Cultist Staff's flee ability, or the summon on Namyrra's book) suitable for Mages still work on spell attacks.

[Brickdoctor]

what about passive Specials (like the Cultist Staff's 50% chance of fleeing on a K.O. hit)? I don't see how that should be affected by whether or not I'm using a spell. It actually renders that awesome special ability useless, as no Mage would want to have to fight from the Front Row to physically attack with the staff if they were in danger of being K.O.'d; they would want to stay in the back, casting spells at full strength. Thus, the staff's special ability has NO chance of ever being used.

Yeah, that weapon was created assuming that the effect would apply whenever any attack was made with the weapon equipped.

[Zepher]

Mage is probably the most powerful class right now, perhaps along with rogues, so I think a nerf wouldn't be as bad as you think, Flipz.

-Mages can fight from the back row and deal full damage (and often times still double damage).

-Mages can use scrolls, which supplements in many ways those special abilities that weapons have.

-Mages can STILL use weapons with special abilities, they just lose the ability to fight in the back row if they choose to do so.

[Sandy]

You most certainly should! I (and many others) have been doing it wrong for nearly a year now. That actually levels the playing field significantly, and I like that rule a lot, I just didn't know it existed!

Odd that it has only now come up... I have never applied weapon effects to spells in my own quests (feel free to prove me wrong, though).

The Battle-section of the FAQ now clarifies this issue.

[CMP]

They can still use unique weapons, they just have to fight from the front row. That's completely fair, as if weapon effects could be used from the back row as long as it's used with a spell, that really destroys the Ranger class. Mages are the most effective basic class at fighting Undead, as long as they don't sell their starting gem.

I agree with the passive specials thing, that does make sense in my mind. It doesn't really have anything to do with fighting anyway.

[Sandy]

No offense, but that's really lousy. I mean, that makes Mages the ONLY class for which "unique" weapons are nerfed. Once again, this forces Mages to go on the hunt for ALL gems if they want to be effective in battle, rather than building up their abilities via unique weapons and scrolls and the like. I don't want a cool character who turns into a cookie-cutter character on the field of battle, I want a character who is unique both in-battle and out. Also note that this dramatically nerfs mages who have to fight undead--after all, most special-effect weapons are not imbued, and seriously, what mage would choose to give up spellcasting for a given element JUST so they can use a special ability on undead? It'd have to be a damn awesome special, and such a weapon would be a prime target for nerfing anyway.

I understand weapons with offensive abilities (i.e. the Lullaby Wand with its Sleep-effect) and elementally-imbued weapons not having a special effect on spells, just for balance, but what about passive Specials (like the Cultist Staff's 50% chance of fleeing on a K.O. hit)? I don't see how that should be affected by whether or not I'm using a spell. It actually renders that awesome special ability useless, as no Mage would want to have to fight from the Front Row to physically attack with the staff if they were in danger of being K.O.'d; they would want to stay in the back, casting spells at full strength. Thus, the staff's special ability has NO chance of ever being used.

IMO, it would work a LOT better if effects on weapons suitable for Mages would still work on a spell roll, or at the very least passive Specials on weapons (i.e. the Cultist Staff's flee ability, or the summon on Namyrra's book) suitable for Mages still work on spell attacks.

No offence taken, but I did not actually change anything. You guys were just playing wrong.

I did not create the Cultist's Staff, so I cannot be held liable if it's broken. You just have to accept the fact that you cannot do absolutely everything with one strike. I thought that thinking up suitable strategies and making choices were the very essence of why the battles are so fun to play, am I wrong?

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to make this game any more complex by adding any exceptions to the rules.