Heroica RPG General Discussion

[CMP]

The only thing I have to say to that is that Rogues and the like should never get shorted because of their ability to steal gold.

I don't think it's happened all that much recently, luckily.

[Capt.JohnPaul]

I just realized that I've signed up Monk Pretzel for a quest that he is not at all in agreement with. This is harder than I thought it would be. I am really uncertain what he will do. Perhaps, just go along, not realizing quite what's going on around him.

This will make for some good Pretzel roleplay. Monk Pretzel will have to repent.

[Flipz]

So, I started writing up a big analysis on 'fair' division of loot and expenses-by-class and what not, but decided to trim it down. A lot. So: If you're the party leader, how do you see fit to distribute the shiny coins and such? Do you just split it evenly? Or perhaps you consider the cost of any items consumed and skew distribution accordingly? If you're going to do that, are you also going to give more to the guy with a hard-hitting weapon who obviously spent a lot of gold getting it to that point so that he could help the party tackle Big Bad Enemy? What about that wily lass who robbed the enemies blind before they dropped, does she get to see a dime of the dropped loot, or should she be happy with her small fortune? Should she be expected to spread that around with the party? Sure, it's her ability, but then, would she have survived those few special damage rolls if the friendly neighborhood cleric hadn't used their own abilities to heal her?

I hope I never get stuck as party leader, I know I'll end up leaving someone feeling like I've sleighted them

I'e only ever been Party Leader for short periods of time, and I've not had to distribute any loot, but when Skrall disappeared in Quest 31, I thought hard about what I'd do if the need to distribute loot ever arose. My conclusion was to follow WBD's example: divide everything as evenly as possible, compensating for equipment drops along the way. As far as gold, consumables, and the like go, that's pretty easy; however, the challenge comes when it comes time to divvy up weapons and artifacts.

For me, I've come up with the philosophy: roleplaying first. Obviously, of course, if someone can't use a weapon/artifact/whatever, then they're last for priority to get it, but otherwise if a piece of equipment would be particularly well-suited for someone's character (i.e. the Staff of the Cultist Battlemage for Arthur), then I'd offer it to them first (taking the appropriate cut of gold out of the division as compensation to the rest of the party, of course). Of course, if someone's already gotten something nice, they're back of the priority bracket again, but if something particularly good came up, I'd try to broker some sort of deal between them and the next person in line.

Oh, and also, since I seem to hae forgotten to say so, I'm going to keep the Cultist Staff as-is. Doc made a very good point about it still being useable in a pinch; I'll have to imbue it with a couple of gems so it won't be useless against undead, but given that I have Flee anyway, it wouldn't be as helpful as an Artifact.

EDIT: Also, I think this is the first time Arthur has attacked from the Front Row. Ever.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Flipz

[swils]

The only thing I have to say to that is that Rogues and the like should never get shorted because of their ability to steal gold.

Playing the devil's advocate here, but.. Would they really be getting shorted? At early levels, rogues won't be shelling out for Nostrum/Mead/Smelling Salts for every battle, so they will have a lower potential income, but also much lower expenses. Additionally, there's more chance that they'll eat a few 5 or 6 rolls, and have to be healed. Assuming their party has a healer, then every heal they get is gold they don't have to spend on a Potion (but that the healer will eventually have to spend on a Tonic). At later levels, Nostrums & Smelling Salts are useful for both a rogue and the party's healer or other support (say, a mage trying to use a scroll that will benefit the rogue or the party as a whole), so consumable-wise, for any battle lasting <5 turns, Mages/Clerics will have about equal expenses to those of a rogue (in longer battles, the wallet-padding scale tips further and further in the rogue's favor). A rogue with M/N/SS will be doing their job, damage, as well as recouping their losses from the consumables. A cleric healing, or mage casting, will be doing their job as well, but will be expending ether twice as quickly, further adding to their expenses. If anything, it is the support classes who are getting shorted!

Want me to heal you? Sure, but that'll be 3 gold. Oh, you want me to spend 5 ether to use this fancy scroll? 15 gold, please!

I don't actually advocate mages or clerics or their hybrids demanding recompense for ether expended. I do, though, think it would be nice if 'Tipping your healer' happened to come into style. What? Biased? Nonsense!

[Brickdoctor]

In regards to the division of loot, I try to give loot as evenly as possible to all the members of the party, with no consideration for what other gains or losses they might have had. In the case of expended Ether, Mages and Clerics know what their limitations will be in that stat when they first roll their character. Mages trade their shot limit for the elemental versatility. Clerics get to heal, and if that's not enough of a compensation for the Ether limitation, they're in such demand that being a Cleric gives you a great chance of getting into quests. Similarly, in the case of Gold gained, Rogues sacrifice their durability for that advantage. Rogues can gain Gold, but their Health is only slightly higher than a Ranger's, and they have to attack from the Front Row or retrieve a weapon every other turn. Rogues often have to use more consumables than other classes, which they have to buy with that Gold. The classes' stats and abilities are all already (designed to be) balanced; they shouldn't need loot compensation for their abilities or limitations.

There are exceptions, of course, such as the Lover's Locket that I kept for myself for roleplaying reasons (*gasp*) because I didn't see Docken as being a character to be Enamored with anyone; and if someone did what Guts did and reaped a ridiculous amount of Gold, then I might give them a little less, but I usually try to keep things even.

Now, if Clerics started charging Gold for their services, then I'd definitely consider giving them a smaller share, because that, I think, is abusing the power of your role in a battle, a role which you knew you'd be taking on when you first created the character. That being said, if any player, Cleric, Mage, Rogue, or otherwise, did something extraordinary to help win a battle that I think would be beyond what a character can be expected to do, then I would consider giving them a larger share, and I wouldn't be against "tipping your healer" if such tipping was deserved.

[CorneliusMurdock]

See, Haldor is everybody's favourite party leader, just look at his friends swarming to his aid.

Well, next time put healers above their targets in the battle order and I might feel more inclined to argue in your favor.

Seriously, though, I keep meaning to stock up on phoenix essences before quests and always forget. Not having an abundance of them does keep the quest interesting. I really want Cronk to roll the special damage that increases WP. Sadly, though, Cronk is never that lucky.

[Flipz]

Well, next time put healers above their targets in the battle order and I might feel more inclined to argue in your favor.

Seriously, though, I keep meaning to stock up on phoenix essences before quests and always forget. Not having an abundance of them does keep the quest interesting. I really want Cronk to roll the special damage that increases WP. Sadly, though, Cronk is never that lucky.

I just want to point out, out-of-character, that Haldor's mistake there underlines Arthur's point about Haldor's lack of planning and not paying attention to the rest of the party.

Some day I'll hae enough Gold to afford Phoenix Essences for my party...someday...

Didn't you roll that Special in the last battle of Dastan?

[CMP]

Eventually, all you'd really need is a Necromancer and a few Nostrums.

[posades]

Let's just put it this way: good thing there aren't any rogues in my quest as party leader or their greedy behinds would be short changed ad nauseum.

[CorneliusMurdock]

CMP, A lucky druid could do the job as well.

Didn't you roll that Special in the last battle of Dastan?

I'd have to go back and look but I'm pretty sure I didn't.

[Zepher]

Just wait until December! There will be more Chaos Beasts than you'll know what to do with!!

[Chromeknight]

Player stats update!

There are currently 53 active heroes (ie. have put their stats in the appropriate thread)

Gender: There are 9 (17%) Females and 44 (83%) Males. I've included some heroes who are ambiguously gendered, such as De'kra, Siercon and Sylph as male.

Race: There are 11 heroes with unique races ('echo', Giant, Fenarian, Half-Elf{half what else, Benji?}, Hermit{is that really a race?}, Imp, Metasimian, Naga, Ogre, Orc{There can be only one!} and Yeti)

3 heroes do not list their race (Siercon, Sylph and... William?)

3 heroes list their race by their affliction which might not overwrite their original race (Undead, Werewolf, Vampire)

9 heroes are Elves

And the remaining 27 are human, with two further specifying that they are Nord.

Age: 7 heroes do not list their age either for roleplay purposes or because they haven't written it into their stats (Siercon, Sylph and William again, plus Tesni, Dyric, Tomas and Cronk)

Elven ages range from 19 to 863

Human ages range from 18 to 53

Other ages fall within those ranges except for Namyrra (1337), Dreyrugr (1000) and De'kra (11)

Class: With the advent of advanced classes, the list becomes a little fractured.

By original class 9 barbarians, 7 Clerics, 4 Knights, 12 Mages, 7 Rangers, and 14 Rogues

28 heroes (54%) have reached 15+ and have multiclassed to an advanced class. 2 others have reached 15+ but not yet chosen an AC.

There are representatives of each advanced class currently, with Assassin(4, 3 ex-rogues, 1 ex-ranger) Raider (3, 2 ex-barbarian, 1 ex-rogue) and Paladin (3, all ex-knights) being the most popular.

We are yet to see an ex-barbarian Battle Mage, ex-ranger Druid, ex-cleric Paladin, ex-rogue Sorcerer, ex-cleric Witch and knights become anything except Paladins (ie. Berserkers, Black Knights, Mystic Knights or Wardens), though with so few knights around, it may be a while.

Level:

Currently there are 11 heroes between levels 1-10 (incl, 7 on level 1)

There are 11 heroes between 10 and 15 (inching toward adv classes!)

There are 17 heroes between 15 and 20 (advanced, but not yet on 1/3 levels)

And there are 13 heroes 20 and above. (Tesni leads the charge on 24 1/3)

Hopefully you enjoyed this small tour of the band of heroes!

Edited September 4, 2012 by Chromeknight

[CMP]

CMP, A lucky druid could do the job as well.

Oh...yeah.

But Druids don't have armies of undead to distract the enemy while they're reviving people, do they?

Erdacath is a Ranger-turned-Druid, Chromeknight.

[swils]

Eh, Cleric healing is more of a responsibility than a reward. It is because of their healing that they are in high demand for quests. A Cleric who routinely doesn't heal (or heal others) won't be near as popular as one who does. The demand is a derivative of their healing, not a separate perk. Plus, it's like saying that a Cleric who heals their party has the privilege of spending extra gold on tonics so that the squishy rogue can ignore their lower health pool without concern, because hey, they've got a healer to worry about that!

I didn't mean to say that the classes' stats and abilities were designed unfairly. I do think that loot compensation is a separate beast from class stat&ability balance, though. It very much becomes a playstyle, rather than a black&white "This is your class" thing. Clerics and Rogues can both choose whether or not to share the benefit of their unique class abilities with their team. A Cleric would be perfectly within his/her/its rights to heal only themselves throughout a quest, saving ether and potion cost. As long as they weren't doing something foolish (ie, letting their team die in a fight they could have otherwise won), they have no responsibility to keep their team at peak fighting condition. Other classes could buy potions and keep themselves topped up, but that often falls to the cleric instead. And, in turn, the cost of refreshing the ether also falls to the cleric. A Cleric's class perk has become a class burden. A rogue is perfectly within his/her/its rights to keep any gold they get from mugging or similar to themselves, even beyond the amount they spent on consumables for the fight. The difference lies in the community perception and general assumptions: Clerics are supposed to support their team through healing; Rogues are allowed to hoard their gold.

Where's all the chivalrous rogues, spreading their extra loot amongst their merry band of adventurers? Ad-hoh bought the 'Extra 100 gold per battle' bonus, but didn't stipulate that he was doing so only so that he could get that 100 gold each battle, rather, he's sharing it once his up front cost is paid off. He could have, and would have been in his right to, hoarded that extra gold, but he's sharing. Where do rogues get off being so greedy?

This has all gotten me thinking about best ways to make money... And I think I've found a new winner. Raider Thormanil, incoming.

Edit: Good lord, I really have come up with it. I'll need a complacent party and a solid quest... but don't worry, spoils for all!

Edited September 4, 2012 by swils

[CMP]

*Snip*

What does that make a Witch, then?

[Chromeknight]

Erdacath is a Ranger-turned-Druid, Chromeknight.

You're right. But her stats aren't in the thread, thus, didn't make it onto my list.

[Flipz]

You're right. But her stats aren't in the thread, thus, didn't make it onto my list.

Thothwick, Dak, and Knifk are all Black Knights, and Knifk is an Orc. I'm not sure if they've posted their stats, either, though, so I understand why you'd miss them.

Also, this last roleplaying bit was...interesting, to say the least. I needed to find a way for Arthur to be the bigger man, and a reason for him to legitimately do so (legitimately was important; I could hae had him "fake it" so as to try and get the Plaything, but I wanted him to be deeper than that). I think it worked, though, and it has a hint of ulnerability to it, which is important for the next backstory scene.

Also, I'm surprised at how little speculation is going on, both about Arthur's backstory AND about Wren's. What gies?

[TheBoyWonder]

Hoke is a mystic knight.

[swils]

What does that make a Witch, then?

A silly rogue who gave up their ability to get rich in exchange for the burden perk of healing!

[Peppermint_M]

Nice stats breakdown there.

Zepher: So long as I get to bash the Chaos Beasts in December, I am good for any number

[CMP]

A silly rogue who gave up their ability to get rich in exchange for the burden perk of healing!

Bah, I've got an infinite source of venom. What'd you get for multiclassing to Shaman? A Shield more useless than both the Cleric's and the Barbarian's? Glad to hear you're giving it up and joining the Rouge side, though.

On the off chance I roll Special Mirror, do we get an Angry Sea Creature on our side too?

I guess!

[swils]

Hey now, I like my Blood Ritual! It's come in very handy a few times so far, heh. Etherless heal, yes please!

In other news, I finally got around to taking proper pictures and getting them uploaded. Well, almost proper. Curse you, Sandy, for making the Bright Armor come from the big castle set!

Thormanil / Thormana / Were-Thorm (Weremanil?)

Edited September 4, 2012 by swils

[CMP]

Nice new avatar(s). Though I think you should pose normal Thormanil as you did Thormana, it's tough to see him properly in that picture.

[Pyrovisionary]

Can't wait for my first quest :D

[swils]

Nice new avatar(s). Though I think you should pose normal Thormanil as you did Thormana, it's tough to see him properly in that picture.

Thanks! I've been toying with it, but so far I haven't found a full-body shot of him that doesn't make his neck look like it's 10 feet long thanks to the way the hood refuses to sit snug over the armor. Let's see if I can't make it work before I crash for the night, heh.

Edit:

Holy heck, that was a tight fit. The hood actually popped up into the air when I went to remove it. But it worked, so that's what counts, heh. Updated in previous post.

Edited September 4, 2012 by swils