Heroica RPG General Discussion

[CorneliusMurdock]

I don't think it should, but it shouldn't matter, Guardian Angel protects against effects anyway.

Well she has taken quite a beating from our healing staffs. That would confuse anybody.

[Zepher]

Hey, if shield can be rolled, why not a miss?

I did question it as I put it down, I think it may actually just result in a failed healing... but a "aim" with a healing staff would heal, so why wouldn't a shield by Arthur confuse? Though CMP is right, GA would protect against it, so perhaps it should just be one ether off of Arthur's back.

[Waterbrick Down]

Aren't the shield rolls always against an enemy even if it wasn't the one targetted? For instance, even though a Witch may be healing (targetting) an ally, they don't hex them if they roll a shield.

Edit: I can see how the confuse roll would be confusing but if a rules clarification is needed, I would suggest that it would act like a miss unless the PC specified otherwise.

Edited September 26, 2012 by Waterbrick Down

[CMP]

Aren't the shield rolls always against an enemy even if it wasn't the one targetted? For instance, even though a Witch may be healing (targetting) an ally, they don't hex them if they roll a shield.

With the Healing Staff, you are literally attacking an ally, but I agree, I think if a special effect thing is rolled (most Shields, rolls of 4 like Confuse or Counter, etc) the first enemy should be targeted instead. That's how it works for healing.

[Zepher]

Shields DO effect the enemy with a roll of 4 because they SAY that they target the enemy. The miss on the other hand, is different. Paladins, for example, still get their miss, which is meditate, even with a healing staff. Aims also effect the target, if a ranger is using a healing staff and rolls a aim, it still targets the target of the healing staff, not the enemy. Why then, would other misses act differently? My party is using the rules to their advantage, so I'm following them to a tee. Though, this is all moot in this instance, because technically the confusion should have been warded off by the guardian angel.

Well she has taken quite a beating from our healing staffs. That would confuse anybody.

Also, yeah, not sure how to write this into the battle description.

"So that Cronk gets to keep his Angel, he hits his friend Tesni with a staff four times!"

It's as hard to explain away as the gold that heroes sometimes randomly receive from bears and Gods and puddles of fat.

[swils]

It's as hard to explain away as the gold that heroes sometimes randomly receive from bears and Gods and puddles of fat.

The bear obviously ate a rich traveler and has just been hauling those coins around in its gut!

[CMP]

Also, yeah, not sure how to write this into the battle description.

"Cronk's angel smiles upon his desperate attempts to remove Tesni's curse, hovering around the party so that he can do so in peace."?

[Flipz]

I'll need a cooperative team, a decent stack of consumables, a few particular things... and if anyone cares to lend me their Sticky Gloves, I certainly wouldn't mind it!

Let's see.. I'll need someone of reasonable level with the following, or just someone willing to loan me/my group...

...

Actually, come to think of it, I just need Arthur (Item-wise)

And that pair of sticky gloves. Heh.

Edit #Lost Count:

Okay, so there's way more folks than I thought who'd fit the various roles. Scavenger hunt time!

Edit #Lost Count + 1:

Okay, maybe not just Arthur. Maybe, but maybe not. Depends on who lets me borrow what!

Ooh, now I REALLY can't wait to learn your plan! (Perhaps a PM is in order? )

Do keep in mind that, once I get back to the Hall, I have a Scroll of Poisoning waiting for me, and if Q43 will finish up I'll hopefully have the Scroll of Luck as well. Plus I'll be making a trip to Arasmyth's grave...

As for the Confusion thing, just say that the ally is Confused that Arthur is actually being helpful.

(Ooc: can dark-knights ditch a fight? )

EDIT:

(Ooc: can dark-knights ditch a fight? )

Yes, you do get Flee; Dak should be able to run away, hopefully before En Sabah Nur makes it back up to the Troll.

Edited September 26, 2012 by Flipz

[Peppermint_M]

Well she has taken quite a beating from our healing staffs. That would confuse anybody.

Tesni feels like a piniata, . Heh, so long as we beat this battle, the she can go have a nice keel over somewhere until the pretty lights leave her alone!

[Masked Builder]

I'll need a cooperative team, a decent stack of consumables, a few particular things... and if anyone cares to lend me their Sticky Gloves, I certainly wouldn't mind it!

I'll trade you some gloves for those boots!

[Flipz]

I just realized my sig still lists me as Level 15.5. I think I'd better go check and update my stats.

[swils]

I'll trade you some gloves for those boots!

Not a chance! Killed way too many folks to just let those boots go, heh. They'll be gathering dust on my shelf until the day I can finally equip them.

[JimBee]

Shields DO effect the enemy with a roll of 4 because they SAY that they target the enemy. The miss on the other hand, is different. Paladins, for example, still get their miss, which is meditate, even with a healing staff. Aims also effect the target, if a ranger is using a healing staff and rolls a aim, it still targets the target of the healing staff, not the enemy. Why then, would other misses act differently? My party is using the rules to their advantage, so I'm following them to a tee. Though, this is all moot in this instance, because technically the confusion should have been warded off by the guardian angel.

I agree, plus there's a few shield rolls, like Spellblade, that attack the ally instead of the enemy. I think how that works is that the staff heals, but the elemental strike also deals damage and usually takes out the ally.

It really is all about the wording in the class descriptions. "Target" means whoever they target, regardless of whether they are foe or friend, and "opponent/enemy" means enemy... plus it adds an element of surprise, which is kind of fun. And it's not equivalent to the full healing powers of a cleric class, so you can't just buy unlimited heals for 50 gold at Elphaba's. Similar to SP artefacts, which can't be upgraded.

All of these items that borrow from other class specialties have limits. /ramble

[Masked Builder]

Not a chance! Killed way too many folks to just let those boots go, heh. They'll be gathering dust on my shelf until the day I can finally equip them.

Nuts. I really wanted those.

[swils]

As Zeph and JimB have said, take it at face value. "Target" means the target, "Opponent" or "Enemy" means just that. If a player targets a teammate and gets a roll that specifies opponents/enemies, then the enemies will be affected by that skill. If a player targets a teammate and gets a roll that specifies target, then the teammate will be affected by that skill, for better or worse.

@Masked:

Yeah, me too! Then Jeb had to go and put that pesky limitation on 'em...

Edited September 27, 2012 by swils

[Waterbrick Down]

As Zeph and JimB have said, take it at face value. "Target" means the target, "Opponent" or "Enemy" means just that. If a player targets a teammate and gets a roll that specifies opponents/enemies, then the enemies will be affected by that skill. If a player targets a teammate and gets a roll that specifies target, then the teammate will be affected by that skill, for better or worse.

@Masked:

Yeah, me too! Then Jeb had to go and put that pesky limitation on 'em...

I'm fine if this is what is finally decided upon, but I think this is just another case of the rules needing more clarification, similar to the Shaman's Blood Ritual not giving health to KO'd members even though they have the lowest current health, fiasco a few days back. I'll take whatever the final word from Sandy is on it.

Also it should be noted that healing staffs need to be upgraded as well in order to be effective. Sure they only cost 50 gold, but a hero needs to maintain two weapons for it to be effective as opposed to a Cleric who only needs to upgrade one.

[Masked Builder]

@Masked:

Yeah, me too! Then Jeb had to go and put that pesky limitation on 'em...

Thankfully there was no such limitation on my quiver.

[Sandy]

As Zeph and JimB have said, take it at face value. "Target" means the target, "Opponent" or "Enemy" means just that. If a player targets a teammate and gets a roll that specifies opponents/enemies, then the enemies will be affected by that skill. If a player targets a teammate and gets a roll that specifies target, then the teammate will be affected by that skill, for better or worse.

Damn, I really need to go through the wording of all of the rules now. You just have to remember that I'm human as well, I make mistakes and I often fail to take every possible scenario into a count when creating rules and items.

It was agreed that when using the Healing Staff, rolls of "5" and "6" (and counter-skills) are counted as a "miss" rather than the one being healed attacking the healer. This applies to offensive Shield-skills as well - it's not the purpose of the item to cause damage to allies. I will go through all the related Shield-skills to see if I can word them differently.

[swils]

Edit:

Oh god I thought I was replying with a quote and I just deleted what I'd typed before.

Edited September 27, 2012 by swils

[CMP]

Could just change the description of Healing Staff to heals on successful rolls, which to my knowledge excludes Shield rolls.

[swils]

Could just change the description of Healing Staff to heals on successful rolls, which to my knowledge excludes Shield rolls.

Well jeez, way to go and make things easy.

Edit: Although would that mean that a damaging shield roll would damage enemies instead of healing them, despite the attack being done with the healing staff?

Edited September 27, 2012 by swils

[CMP]

Well jeez, way to go and make things easy.

Raiders can't use the Healing Staff anyway.

Edit: Although would that mean that a damaging shield roll would damage enemies instead of healing them, despite the attack being done with the healing staff?

The way I understand successful rolls, it would have no effect, but passive or non-damaging Shields (Berserkers, Paladins) would still take place.

[swils]

Accidentally deleted what I'd meant to quote... but I had specified that I was only using Raider as an example because of the nature of their shield (damages all enemies), and how it would relate to an attack with the healing staff.

Bah, I say let it heal enemies. If a Shaman can do it to an undead (which may even be unintentional--attempt to heal ally, instead get shield, and have an undead be the first enemy in the line up), then off-healers (healing staff users) should be at risk too! It could also be situationally useful. Like against a giant party of undead.

[Scubacarrot]

Math. I can't do it, apparantly.

[Jebediahs]

I'm fine if this is what is finally decided upon, but I think this is just another case of the rules needing more clarification, similar to the Shaman's Blood Ritual not giving health to KO'd members even though they have the lowest current health, fiasco a few days back.

-_- What fiasco? Situation was no different from taking an angel out of a paladin's shield roll.