Heroica RPG General Discussion

[Scubacarrot]

I knew a ruling was made about it. Just the other way then, .

[Zepher]

I'll warn you guys when we get to perma-KO. There will be a plot point explaining it and everything, don't worry!

[Pandora]

Angry Seaweed allies, they might be the best thing.

They are the next best thing!

EDIT: I also can't remember, but I'm pretty sure, ALL weapon's effects are only used if it's a physical attack, spells disregard them, right? So the explosive staff and book, when used by Nyx, would only have the ability to do it's 1/2 to everyone or summon when she physically attacks?

Correct.

So, when I roll a Shield or if I specify a physical attack.

[CMP]

I'll warn you guys when we get to perma-KO. There will be a plot point explaining it and everything, don't worry!

Alright, good.

Sorry, I've been paranoid about this stuff ever since I finished Dastan at about half the max health I should've had...

[swils]

Quick question before the meat of the post so that it doesn't get lost or forgotten about afterwards:

Is there any specific balancing reason for not having expert classes able to use weapons suitable for the character's base class? I can understand that it wouldn't make sense for a minstrel to be hauling around a giant axe while singing and playing his tunes (unless the axe doubled as a badass lyre), but it also seems strange that a person would 'forget' how to fight with a weapon that they have been using since they were just wee little adventurers. From a lore standpoint, it would also seem odd that Wardens can attack with bows (a weapon requiring two hands) while wielding bulky tower shields. Is that just one of the drawbacks to the Expert Classes, having to, in some cases, almost entirely re-gear your character?

Anyway, Incoming essay.

I'm quite excited to see more strategic parties forming as time goes on. Synergy will definitely have to be taken into account--it would be unwise, in most cases, to bring a Shaman and a Witch in the same party, for example. Utility/hybrid classes will become very popular. I've been replaying Dragon Warrior Monsters over break, but this concept can be seen in most any JRPG (the Dragon Warrior/Quest series is just a really good example as a whole): Having one Healer simply isn't enough, you have to be able to fix a problem should that healer be taken out of the picture. Out of a 3-slot party, *my* preferred setup is a Damage Dealer/Tank, Healer, and a Buffer/Status-inflicter. All three carry single target heals and Revive, while both the Healer and Buffer each carry a strong attack or two, so that I can always keep my team up and always be dealing some damage.

Applying that to Heroica, I think one of the most solid/versatile party cores would be a Warden, Druid, and Witch (well- and properly-equipped). If the party were to expand to four (or more), I would take a Sage before anyone else, but would also consider a Sorcerer for their AoE-stun. I'd also consider a well equipped fighter capable of offering the same utility, say, a Raider with a blade capable of stunning... . If we look towards Expert classes, I'd definitely add Chi Monk, Harlot, Minstrel and Winged Warrior to the "Party Member #4" list.

Beyond the "optimal party for every day encounters," there are some interesting possibilities if some specific requirements are met. Thanks to his new Rubber Band, Galen would make an *excellent* Skirmisher when in a party that can fight exclusively from the back row (Warden, Sage, Druid, and/or Hunter). Then there's the potential synergy between Infiltrator and Necromancer, if the Necromancer's minions count as "Standing allied party members" (though I don't imagine that they do... ). The coupling of a Minstrel and an Alchemist could make a great supporting cast for a Mystic Knight trying to imbue their equipment without breaking the bank on Tonics.

So much possibility, I really look forward to seeing more advanced tactics come into play as time goes on.

[Scorpiox]

"Go away, we're closed for the day," he says nervously, glancing behind the counter. "I don't want any trouble."

Hmm, that man looks familiar...

It's quite hard to imagine Haldor's situation, walking into a shop to see a man with exactly the same face as him.

[CMP]

Expert Classes are the only level of classes that aren't boosting basic classes exclusively, and I think that's why Sandy lets people create their own. Frankly, it's more of an optional level than advanced and master classes. In Advanced Classes you can almost always get a class similar to to your original, Master classes are like super advanced classes....Experts are the odd ones out. They're specialized. An equipment change and the requirements to get them are both things unique to it, and have nothing to do with your basic classes. Notice how nobody refuses an advanced class, while I've seen several people deliberating not choosing an expert.

In short, in my eyes, it's like that one giant branch jutting out sideways from your skill/progression tree, rather than an advancement of it. It's just so different from the basic>advanced>master progression that I don't think Atramor's even going to have a master class, and for others, unless they go Mime, it'll require an even bigger equipment change.

Edited January 5, 2013 by CallMePie

[TheBoyWonder]

If I can't get Beast Warrior, I'm staying AC. If I can get Beast Warrior, I'm not choosing Paragon.

[Brickdoctor]

From a lore standpoint, it would also seem odd that Wardens can attack with bows (a weapon requiring two hands) while wielding bulky tower shields.

You can see from his avatar that Docken has the shield on his upper left arm, leaving both hands free to hold the bow. (which is technically a crossbow, actually, which I think you can operate with one hand; it'd just take longer and be less accurate)

[CMP]

Hmm, that man looks familiar...

He does to me as well, in a completely different way. I'm glad to see that guy again. Ask if you can brew some Meads and Nostrums, Apothecary party!

[Pyrovisionary]

A shield is strapped to your arm generally, but most use their hand also to provide stability. So while is is possible to operate a bow with a shield, it wouldn't be all that effective.

[swils]

No argument, they're definitely sidegrades moreso than upgrades. Definitely useful under the right circumstances, though the same can be said for most any class at a given tier.

You can see from his avatar that Docken has the shield on his upper left arm, leaving both hands free to hold the bow. (which is technically a crossbow, actually, which I think you can operate with one hand; it'd just take longer and be less accurate)

True, but from a game-mechanics perspective, there is nothing stopping Docken from lugging around using, simultaneously, a longbow and aforementioned tower shield. I don't mean to say that it should be changed to make more sense, just that the idea of a minstrel with an axe instead of an instrument isn't too far-fetched either, despite the obvious lore discrepancy.

[Scorpiox]

You can see from his avatar that Docken has the shield on his upper left arm, leaving both hands free to hold the bow. (which is technically a crossbow, actually, which I think you can operate with one hand; it'd just take longer and be less accurate)

One can fire a crossbow without too much dfficulty from one hand (Since all that needs to be done is the pulling of a trigger), but the weight of it would mean that one probably couldn't even hold it straight for very long, let alone target anything. One would also need both hands for reloading (To retract the mechanism and load a bolt), so wielding a hand shield with a crossbow would be unrealistic and totally useless. That's why it makes sense for Docken to use an arm-mounted shield, so he can actually use his weapons. Although the shield would also be rather heavy, decreasing his overall aim.

But not forgetting that this is a fictional fantasy game, where strength is all relative, I don't see why Wardens can't lug around any shield that they feel fit.

[Pyrovisionary]

I was just looking at the Advanced class items i.e Hunter's quiver, witch's talisman, paladin's armour and Black knights armour. It would be cool (Though slightly un-original) If all the classes had that sort of thing. Such as.. I dunno, warden's armor. (Sp: 3 +3 wp to all bows.) Or something..

Also, swils, the best thing about the advanced job classes s that you can have a mix of Damage Dealers/Tanks, Healers, and a Buffer/Status-inflicters. With a

cleric/melee class, you get healers capable of doing significant damage as well as healing their fellow party. With the Rogue/most everything else classes, you can steal mass amounts of gold with a single shield roll. This is why I love the advanced job classes. It's the variety!

Edited January 5, 2013 by Skyrimguy

[Scubacarrot]

*snip*Then there's the potential synergy between Infiltrator and Necromancer, if the Necromancer's minions count as "Standing allied party members" (though I don't imagine that they do... ). *snip*

I'd say they do.

[CMP]

I was just looking at the Advanced class items i.e Hunter's quiver, witch's talisman, paladin's armour and Black knights armour. It would be cool (Though slightly un-original) If all the classes had that sort of thing. Such as.. I dunno, warden's armor. (Sp: 3 +3 wp to all bows.) Or something..

I'd still like to see the Berserker's Incense (or something to that effect) I suggested in the Grogmas Gifts. It'd level out one of the Berserker's greatest weaknesses, but at a cost.

Edited January 5, 2013 by CallMePie

[Scubacarrot]

And: I was playing this awesome game called Chivalry the other day (Basically a first person shooter, but in medieval times with axes and stuff, it's great.) And in there, you can be an archer that carries around a shield, which he can plant down and fire behind it, perhaps that's how wardens do it?

[swils]

Also, swils, the best thing about the advanced job classes s that you can have a mix of Damage Dealers/Tanks, Healers, and a Buffer/Status-inflicters. With a

cleric/melee class, you get healers capable of doing significant damage as well as healing their fellow party. With the Rogue/most everything else classes, you can steal mass amounts of gold with a single shield roll. This is why I love the advanced job classes. It's the variety!

Don't I know it! Refer to the meat of my post for my thoughts on all of that!

But not forgetting that this is a fictional fantasy game, where strength is all relative, I don't see why Wardens can't lug around any shield that they feel fit.

Wouldn't have it any other way

Too lazy to quote a third time. @Scuba, If you're right, that will be a truly terrifying combination.

[Scubacarrot]

Too lazy to quote a third time. @Scuba, If you're right, that will be a truly terrifying combination.

I'd need to be able to finish Quest 40 then at least...

[swils]

Best make that happen, then!

[Flipz]

He does to me as well, in a completely different way. I'm glad to see that guy again. Ask if you can brew some Meads and Nostrums, Apothecary party!

I was already planning this as soon as the Apothecary was mentioned.

Anyway, Incoming essay.

I'm quite excited to see more strategic parties forming as time goes on. Synergy will definitely have to be taken into account--it would be unwise, in most cases, to bring a Shaman and a Witch in the same party, for example. Utility/hybrid classes will become very popular. I've been replaying Dragon Warrior Monsters over break, but this concept can be seen in most any JRPG (the Dragon Warrior/Quest series is just a really good example as a whole): Having one Healer simply isn't enough, you have to be able to fix a problem should that healer be taken out of the picture. Out of a 3-slot party, *my* preferred setup is a Damage Dealer/Tank, Healer, and a Buffer/Status-inflicter. All three carry single target heals and Revive, while both the Healer and Buffer each carry a strong attack or two, so that I can always keep my team up and always be dealing some damage.

Applying that to Heroica, I think one of the most solid/versatile party cores would be a Warden, Druid, and Witch (well- and properly-equipped). If the party were to expand to four (or more), I would take a Sage before anyone else, but would also consider a Sorcerer for their AoE-stun. I'd also consider a well equipped fighter capable of offering the same utility, say, a Raider with a blade capable of stunning... . If we look towards Expert classes, I'd definitely add Chi Monk, Harlot, Minstrel and Winged Warrior to the "Party Member #4" list.

Beyond the "optimal party for every day encounters," there are some interesting possibilities if some specific requirements are met. Thanks to his new Rubber Band, Galen would make an *excellent* Skirmisher when in a party that can fight exclusively from the back row (Warden, Sage, Druid, and/or Hunter). Then there's the potential synergy between Infiltrator and Necromancer, if the Necromancer's minions count as "Standing allied party members" (though I don't imagine that they do... ). The coupling of a Minstrel and an Alchemist could make a great supporting cast for a Mystic Knight trying to imbue their equipment without breaking the bank on Tonics.

So much possibility, I really look forward to seeing more advanced tactics come into play as time goes on.

This is why I've built Arthur the way he's built (well, excluding Q53, since he's loaned out most of his gear; I think it's become apparent that he's a LOT less flexible without his Scrolls). As it stands, he's got a pseudo-Cleric skill (Healing Staff) that, on a SHIELD, can still serve as a pseudo-Guardian Angel. With support from Scrolls and the Lens, he's a solid status-dealer, and when I have him fully outfitted with a little more SP, the Cloak of Deception, and Counterstrike Gloves, he can also be an effective Free Hit tank. Add that to his ability to hit all but one type of enemy for super-effective damage, and you have a built that's quite literally a huge boon to any party he's a part of.

[Palathadric]

Swils, I could be wrong, but wouldn't it be a better idea for you to keep the marksman's hat, because you have a shield that can damage multiple enemies while all of Xander's attack only hit the targetted one.

[swils]

I think that the Hat's effect is only applied to the initial target.

[CMP]

I think that the Hat's effect is only applied to the initial target.

No, it's applied to all enemies, that's how you assassinated one of the crows.

[Palathadric]

Exactly, now just pretend that the exchange never happened, which, surely, it didn't.