Zepher Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) Arthur was originally going to let her die without sending ANYONE . Why the sudden change of heart? And I'll bet you for every NPC I kill, I'm sadder than you guys. But how are the stakes high if they don't die die die? Edited January 22, 2013 by Zepher Quote
CMP Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 I don't think I'll ever forgive Atramor for doing that. Quote
Zepher Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 You're probably saving some of your fellow PCs and a fair number of other NPCs' lives by fleeing. Quote
Flipz Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) Because he went, and he had the perfect setup...and then he ran. Without even trying. Arthur was willing to let Triad make a final sacrifice because there was no hope, but when Atramor (and that's another thing, Atramor himself suggested the plan) came up with a plan, he cooperated, giving up a VERY valuable item for a cause he knew was worthy, because there was still hope. And then Atramor goes and wastes both the perfectly planned items and strategy, and then just runs. Arthur (thanks to the staff) fled in self-defense. Atramor ran from fear, not even trying to help. (And also note that Arthur, even in running away, is looking for ways to help the Quest as a whole. ) DO keep in mind that if Atramor can somehow convince Vipera to stay silent about him running instead of being beaten within an inch of his life, Arthur won't flip out. No idea how hard it'll be to keep a Dragon quiet, though. Yes, Gray's sister would have Arthur's total respect, at least in principle. He's got little relationship to Gray, since he often finds himself purposeless, but still values it when he has it. He hates Regret, becasue he has a lot of regrets but doesn't like the binding nature of regret. He runs on hope, though. Everything he does is for hope of a better future. Sometimes that comes from dark or cowardly or selfish places, but it's hope nonetheless. Hope is the source of his purpose, always. EDIT: Something else that comes to mind: in Arthur's eyes, a Hero is someone who always does something, no matter what that something is, to accomplish their goal. Self-preservation is very high on his mind, but never JUST for its own sake; despite his shortcomings, Arthur IS one to make the sacrifice play; hell, if he weren't worried about a repeat of 38 with the Lucky boss, he would have gone after Triad himself, damn the orders. Edited January 22, 2013 by Flipz Quote
CMP Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) Triad was still the most relatable Wren NPC to Atramor. And I personally like the Acerpusculum. And I'm a sucker for such awesome deaths, too. I don't care about the PCs, most of them aren't really going to die anyway....it's a matter of finishing the Quest. Like MDM says..... gameplay<roleplay<success. We should've left Mallelio. We've already saved him from death like three times!! Edited January 22, 2013 by CallMePie Quote
joeshmoe554 Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 Yeah, SP has become a requirement in this game. Not that that's a bad thing, but sometimes I wonder if our discussions make that clear for new players--probably not, seeing how few players actually spend money on SP:1 Leather Caps and Robes of the Magi. Sometimes I wish that Heroica had a tutorial, for stuff like this. Yes, I know a QM taking new Heroes on their first outing are supposed to help make things clear for them, give them an experience that really shows them the ropes of the game (Rumble Strike's Quest 32 is the definitive example of how this should be done, though CJP has also been doing a GREAT job with this on his current Quest, with the possible exception of Effects, but I'll likely be eating my words come next battle ), but I still wish we had a "Player's Handbook" that explains the tricks we use on an instinctive level; yes, it's clear in the rules that certain elements are strong against certain types of enemies, but unless someone asks, they don't know WHAT elements are best for beginners, and what elements they should try to get next. Sandy's early Quests are a great "how to" guide, as are most of the early Quests, but at about Quest 12 and onward, the Quests start to revolve more about themselves than about basic mechanics; the majority of players knew how the game operated, and the Quests began to add new elements of their own; that's about where we started to get to the rules lawyering that's become common now. (Yes, I'm aware that real-time-wise it's roughly where I joined the game, shaddap. ) The thing is, Heroica has evolved substantially since we first started, and we can see from when Skyrimguy and PsyKater and obelix and several other of the "newer" characters joined that learning the ropes has become substantially harder (just look at how many times PsyKater had to post in this thread before she even started her(?) character!). Hopefully once the current cycle of finales has ended, we can get a few more Quests that aren't trying to subvert the "traditional" formula, but regardless I think we need to look at making some more new "tutorial-like" Quests like Pie's Quest 51 and Flare's Quest 42 (though admittedly, that one HAS run a bit long for a "traditional" Quest ). Even for experienced players it'd be nice to have sort of a "recap", especially for those poor souls who either are hosting or are thinking about hosting Quests in the near future. They could always read the 723 pages in the Rules & Discussion thread, and the 55 quest threads. I recently found this site and this game and I thought it looked like a blast. I've been reading through some of the early quests(up to quest 7 at the moment) to get a better idea of how the game is played, the only issue with that is some of the mechanics changing in those early quests, and some of the QMs were learning the rules along with the players. Most of the game seems fairly straight forward though. As for what elements are more useful, or what stats people need to focus on, that seems like it would depend on the quests being created, and would probably require people to spend a decent amount of time reading all of the quests so far. or a helpful player guide by one of the legendary experienced heroes that have been saving the world for years now. Quote
CMP Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 You know, hairy bestial humanoids in general are really getting on Atramor's nerves. First Metasimians, now Pongcanis... Quote
Flipz Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 Edit made to previous post. Triad Felton Poletad Vipera. MAYBE Mallelio if he says something meaningful to Arthur (Vipera wasn't included until the pre-Court conversation, after all). Go ahead. See how loyal Arthur is with those four gone. You know, hairy bestial humanoids in general are really getting on Atramor's nerves. First Metasimians, now Pongcanis... Funny, I was just going to say the same about Arthur... first Haldor, then Thothwick, now Atramor... OK, I'll stop now. And I'll bet you for every NPC I kill, I'm sadder than you guys. But how are the stakes high if they don't die die die? Yes, very true. I just wish it didn't have to be one of the NPCs I got to play. About the only way I could be sadder is if Knyghton got killed somehow. Seriously. DON'T do it. I have plans. (Yes, Doc, I will PM you about them, just as soon as I've polished up this current Quest we're working on. Yes, it IS related to this one. No, I will not tell you until that Cathedral is built. ) Quote
CMP Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 I recently found this site and this game and I thought it looked like a blast. I've been reading through some of the early quests(up to quest 7 at the moment) to get a better idea of how the game is played, the only issue with that is some of the mechanics changing in those early quests, and some of the QMs were learning the rules along with the players. Most of the game seems fairly straight forward though. As for what elements are more useful, or what stats people need to focus on, that seems like it would depend on the quests being created, and would probably require people to spend a decent amount of time reading all of the quests so far. Awesome to see more dedicated new players (and the first automaton, too). I would bet good money on Flipz having some sort of universal game guide in the works ( ), but for now, yes, the best thing to do to learn the ropes is read the first post of this thread and some of the Quests. And also hope a new Quest comes up soon. If you're lucky, someone in Quest 53 will die and you'll be questing with one of their new characters... Funny, I was just going to say the same about Arthur... first Haldor, then Thothwick, now Atramor... Underneath that hat of his, I've always suspected he's balder than Guts. Quote
Brickdoctor Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 About the only way I could be sadder is if Knyghton got killed somehow. Seriously. DON'T do it. I have plans. (Yes, Doc, I will PM you about them, just as soon as I've polished up this current Quest we're working on. Yes, it IS related to this one. No, I will not tell you until that Cathedral is built. ) Knyghton's not going anywhere in the foreseeable future; he's just going to have his role reduced mechanics-wise in future quests. (I won't be adding him to most parties; it doesn't make sense considering his storyline. I have other Lion Knight NPCs who will probably see more action.) Same with Luke: still there, but reduced role, since he's supposed to be Sir Leonard's personal healer and Sir Leonard's retired. Quote
Flipz Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 Underneath that hat of his, I've always suspected he's balder than Guts. ...did you not watch the video where Arthur and Alexis got together? Knyghton's not going anywhere in the foreseeable future; he's just going to have his role reduced mechanics-wise in future quests. (I won't be adding him to most parties; it doesn't make sense considering his storyline. I have other Lion Knight NPCs who will probably see more action.) Same with Luke: still there, but reduced role, since he's supposed to be Sir Leonard's personal healer and Sir Leonard's retired. Yeah, if you haven't seen, I've been sticking Luke in pretty much all of my photos. Apparently he now spends his days running errands for Leonard in Eubric, talking primarily to Bilbert Wigglepike and the Copper Fox. Quote
PsyKater Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 Yeah, SP has become a requirement in this game. Not that that's a bad thing, but sometimes I wonder if our discussions make that clear for new players--probably not, seeing how few players actually spend money on SP:1 Leather Caps and Robes of the Magi. I was actually trying (that's why I asked for the armory and for some armour, but there is no way for Amma to get her hands on some SP right now. Sometimes I wish that Heroica had a tutorial, for stuff like this. Yes, I know a QM taking new Heroes on their first outing are supposed to help make things clear for them, give them an experience that really shows them the ropes of the game (Rumble Strike's Quest 32 is the definitive example of how this should be done, though CJP has also been doing a GREAT job with this on his current Quest, with the possible exception of Effects, but I'll likely be eating my words come next battle ), but I still wish we had a "Player's Handbook" that explains the tricks we use on an instinctive level; yes, it's clear in the rules that certain elements are strong against certain types of enemies, but unless someone asks, they don't know WHAT elements are best for beginners, and what elements they should try to get next. Sandy's early Quests are a great "how to" guide, as are most of the early Quests, but at about Quest 12 and onward, the Quests start to revolve more about themselves than about basic mechanics; the majority of players knew how the game operated, and the Quests began to add new elements of their own; that's about where we started to get to the rules lawyering that's become common now. (Yes, I'm aware that real-time-wise it's roughly where I joined the game, shaddap. ) The thing is, Heroica has evolved substantially since we first started, and we can see from when Skyrimguy and PsyKater and obelix and several other of the "newer" characters joined that learning the ropes has become substantially harder (just look at how many times PsyKater had to post in this thread before she even started her(?) character!). Hopefully once the current cycle of finales has ended, we can get a few more Quests that aren't trying to subvert the "traditional" formula, but regardless I think we need to look at making some more new "tutorial-like" Quests like Pie's Quest 51 and Flare's Quest 42 (though admittedly, that one HAS run a bit long for a "traditional" Quest ). Even for experienced players it'd be nice to have sort of a "recap", especially for those poor souls who either are hosting or are thinking about hosting Quests in the near future. You are right, that starting to play this game is kind of hard as you have the feeling that there is so much going on. Beginner-quests should be like tutorials and I think that CJP is doing a great job here. (Only thing I'd like to see are better explained battle results and some formatting. But I know that's not everyone's cup of tea and very time consuming.) Advice on collecting gems is a bit too much, I think. Taking the first gem of a Mage for role-playing reasons is much better (even if I'd really like to have an Amethyst right now). But imagine every mage or elemental weapon of the same type for beginners. That would be boring. And I have another thing to notice. The other, more experienced players have a big responsibility for the continuation of this game. I have seen some players getting bored or even offended as no other character is speaking to theirs. I think Sarge (who was really annoying at the beginning with his forced roleplay) was in this danger as well, but skyrimguy has managed to stay And the Sarge is now developing to a great and important character. But in my time in the Hall and at the time reading before Amma entered the Hall I noticed a lot of experienced Heroes that weren't even noticing new Heroes. I can understand why they are not talking to them in RP ("eh, noobs" or "I don't like to talk to other people") but they should notice them. I think we lost some Heroes because of this. And tutorial-wise experienced Heroes can teach new Heroes as well. That's why it is good to have kind of mixed parties for beginner quests (just make most of the stuff of the experienced hero useless ). . (Seriously. Watch this!) I have watched this video (as an exception) and it is really good! Quote
Palathadric Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 -snip- It would be a huge help to new players to have a guide such as you are suggesting. One of the main reasons that SP is such a necessity these days is due to the amounts of enemies in most battles. A lot of battles nowadays have more enemies than heroes, often quite a lot more. I guess it's also due to the fact that heroes are becoming so powerful that it's very difficult to defeat them without having the numbers quite overwhelmingly against them. For quests with low-levelled heroes, I don't think this is particularly necessary though. I would really like to see bombs used more in noob quests. They've become almost useless in most "advanced" quests, due to the high HP of enemies and the vast number of enemies that makes not targetting one of them almost useless, so it would be nice to see them at work where they're still useful. Was there no way Atramor could have fled with Triad. Quote
CMP Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 The original plan was just to use a Smoke Bomb, but Zeph said that wouldn't fly. Quote
UsernameMDM Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 I'm not sad when NPCs die because they are story fodder for the QMs. NPCs can even die outside of battle. It's all up to the QM. Also, I think some of y'all are looking over the fact that is CMP actually stayed through the battle and was perma KO'd then he would be out for the entire quest, not just this battle. So the party would be down a PC for the remainder of the quest. I think it was a bad call to go out solo, but now this outcome with Triad and running away may make for some good role-play. I bet the Master of Regret is feasting well right now... Quote
Bricksandparts Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 My main question for the future is how powerful are enemies going to get? I mean, are we going to see battles like this when a party goes to fight some orcs? It just seems to impractical, for a time the enemies are so weak, but then they keep getting harder and harder, even though they are the same class. I don't think that every quest is going to have some super-evil-fortress with a bunch of super powerful guards, not including the boss. Has anyone else thought about this? Orc guard A Level 200 Humanoid Health: 3000/3000 SP: 20 Special: Ground smash - the orc jumps high into the air and punches the ground, causing 250 damage to the targeted hero and 50 to all other heroes fighting in the same row. Orc guard B Level 200 Humanoid Health: 3000/3000 SP: 20 Special: Ground smash - the orc jumps high into the air and punches the ground, causing 250 damage to the targeted hero and 50 to all other heroes fighting in the same row. Orc guard C Level 200 Humanoid Health: 3000/3000 SP: 20 Special: Ground smash - the orc jumps high into the air and punches the ground, causing 250 damage to the targeted hero and 50 to all other heroes fighting in the same row. Orc leader Level 320 Humanoid Health: 6000/6000 Ether: 32/32 SP: 36 Special: Elemental punch - the orc leader expends 1 ether to punch his opponent, causing 400 damage and a random element to be used. Quote
PsyKater Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 Welcome to Heroica, joeshmoe554! You have created a nice character, I imagine something in steampunk-style. Very unique, very nice! Quote
Sandy Posted January 22, 2013 Author Posted January 22, 2013 I recently found this site and this game and I thought it looked like a blast. A hearty welcome to the game, joeshmoe! There's been a draught of new players lately, hopefully you'll attract a few more lurkers to follow your example and join the game. My main question for the future is how powerful are enemies going to get? I mean, are we going to see battles like this when a party goes to fight some orcs? It just seems to impractical, for a time the enemies are so weak, but then they keep getting harder and harder, even though they are the same class. I don't think that every quest is going to have some super-evil-fortress with a bunch of super powerful guards, not including the boss. Has anyone else thought about this? Having enemies with triple-digit levels is not really a realistic scenario, since there's the experience curve. As some have calculated, it will take a couple of years for a character to even hit Level 50, and even then nobody will have over 100 health. Besides, you can replace super-powerful enemies with a super-load of enemies, if you want to keep the difficulty up. Also, I'm not planning for this game to go on forever. Certainly a few more years, if my motivation keeps up, but we will see a conclusion one day, if ya'll just stick with the game. ;) Quote
Flipz Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 Also, I think some of y'all are looking over the fact that is CMP actually stayed through the battle and was perma KO'd then he would be out for the entire quest, not just this battle. So the party would be down a PC for the remainder of the quest. ...and? This was, feasibly, the last time we could possibly think about splitting up. Losing Atters would NOT have been a big deal numbers-wise; no offense to Pie, but aside from Deadly Poisoning (which Arthur can do with a Scroll) and Frailty (which Arthur can do with a Scroll), he's next to no use numerically, thanks to the Special Damages being so overwhelming that they'd screw us over even if he does Mirror them and thanks to Hex being so useless. (Seriously, Hex REALLY needs a buff.) Quote
CorneliusMurdock Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 ...did you not watch the video where Arthur and Alexis got together? What sort of videos are you making, Flipz? Ew. Quote
Masked Builder Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 What sort of videos are you making, Flipz? Ew. Flipz phrased that wrong. Quote
Flipz Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 What sort of videos are you making, Flipz? Ew. :facepalm: Not what I intended to say at all. >_< Quote
CorneliusMurdock Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 :facepalm: Not what I intended to say at all. >_< Sure it wasn't... Quote
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