CMP Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 I see your point. My problem is, look at Assassin and Warden. One has a 1/6 of instantly killing their opponent every hit, and the other is incredibly hard to damage. Their Shields aren't absolutely fantastic because of those. Poisoning and Special Mirror don't make up for the fact that the Witch's Shield is the most underpowered of all the advanced classes. There is no one awesome gimmick that makes a less powerful shield worthwhile is all. Quote
Zepher Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 (edited) Yes there is. Your deadly poisoning and ability to heal yourself is your gimmick that is the same as the 1/6 chance and the high SP of the other classes. Edited January 25, 2013 by Zepher Quote
UsernameMDM Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 Against one enemy, a mystic knight can afford an enchant, against many, he wants a spellspin. Oh yes he does..... Quote
CMP Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 Yes, but, Badly Poisoning takes a 400 gold artifact and the accessory slot to use, and I'd take the chance to assassinate over it any day. 10 damage per round isn't that great, even if every enemy is Badly Poisoned. Quote
Zepher Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 Then I guess my advice is to switch your class. Quote
CMP Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 I'm just explaining to you why I think the Shield should be buffed, I'm not trying to bash the class itself. Quote
Pyrovisionary Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 Then I guess my advice is to switch your class. Or Sandy improves it. Quote
Zepher Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 (edited) I don't think it's going to be changed. It's funny you guys keep wanting stronger classes, but as the enemies get better, you complain. I think people ask for changes in the game too often and in too great of numbers. If something seems mechanic breaking or TRULY balance breaking, maybe it should be discussed, but sometimes I also feel that people just complain to get better (CMP, I know you won't take this as a personal jab, so feel safe saying it ). Leave the game be. When stun get nerfed, it hurt one of my weapons, but it was the decision made, so I kept quiet. Do I wish Paladin were a more exciting class? Yes. Do I think it pales in comparison to both other types of Knight ACs and Cleric Acs? Yes, sometimes. But it is what it is, so I leave it be. I think there should be a mini celebration every time Hoke doesn't roll enchant. Edited January 25, 2013 by Zepher Quote
Brickington Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 What would make a quest master pick a newbie? Quote
Waterbrick Down Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 I am starting to see Zepher's point and agree that every class should have some sort of weakness. That's what keeps this game from becoming merely a power race. Balance, variety, versatility, these are the things I find interesting about heroica. If you want to argue about power than I should demand that a Hunter's shield roll is at least as powerful as a critical hit, but that's not the point of my class. The point of my class is to do damage often and have it focused on one opponent. Hunter's are horrible against big groups especially when they have multiple monster types, but that is my weakness and from an outside non-biased perspective, I'm glad I have it. Quote
JimBee Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 Yes, but, Badly Poisoning takes a 400 gold artifact and the accessory slot to use, and I'd take the chance to assassinate over it any day. 10 damage per round isn't that great, even if every enemy is Badly Poisoned. Weren't you saying a while back how witches were much better than assassins because OHKOs were the only thing an assassin could do? :P And that's only against weaker enemies, the big ones are usually immune. Same with the undead, at least according to Sandy. If the witch had the ability to gain gold, then getting a talisman would be no problem. On another note, dealing with scrolls, they have never been affected by the lucky effect, nor should they ever be. The same goes for any rolls with chance, like special guard and assassinations. QMs who hosted mages or clerics during the time that scrolls had a 100% success rate will know my pain. Quote
CMP Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 That's exactly why I'm explaining to you why I think it needs the buff, to show I don't just want a more powerful class. Bad example, though. Paladin's one of the best ACs.... Quote
Waterbrick Down Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 What would make a quest master pick a newbie? New players are a ton easier to balance enemies for, plus it's exciting getting to watch a character start to grow firsthand. Quote
UsernameMDM Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 I think there should be a mini celebration every time Hoke doesn't roll enchant. Huzzah! Quote
CMP Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 Weren't you saying a while back how witches were much better than assassins because OHKOs were the only thing an assassin could do? :P Witch isn't an underpowered class, its Shield is. We've got the ability to heal, but Assassins can fight from the back row. We can Badly Poison, but Assassins can OHKO. We can Hex one enemy, but Assassins get to cut a bloody swath through their opponents and gain obscene amounts of gold at the same time...that is my issue. Quote
CorneliusMurdock Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 Legonator, you need to take that buttload of gold you got and invest in some SP. Seriously. I love it when you actually assassinate things but I'd like it even better if I could keep you on your feet. Quote
Brickington Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 New players are a ton easier to balance enemies for, plus it's exciting getting to watch a character start to grow firsthand. Sorry if I am so annoying. But, how do I learn how to do a quest. Quote
UsernameMDM Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 Sorry if I am so annoying. But, how do I learn how to do a quest. By getting into one. Go and read a few quests and the rules. The rules explain pretty much everything you need to know besides role-playing. Quote
CorneliusMurdock Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 Sorry if I am so annoying. But, how do I learn how to do a quest. Read a few of the early ones. But then the best thing is doing, so you'll learn better once you get in a quest. Quote
Zepher Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 If I were with my bricks, I'd take you and the automaton on one right now. Newbie quests are the best. Quote
Brickington Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 Thanks everybody, I have a feeling that I will have a great time here. I'll be in the hall if anyone wants to chat. Quote
Pyrovisionary Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 (edited) Thanks everybody, I have a feeling that I will have a great time here. I'll be in the hall if anyone wants to chat. If I could come up with an idea so good that Sandy would forget how new I am to the game then I might host a quest that you could come on. Of course that would never happen seeing as I have no Ideas. Edited January 25, 2013 by Skyrimguy Quote
The Legonater Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 (edited) Legonator, you need to take that buttload of gold you got and invest in some SP. Seriously. I love it when you actually assassinate things but I'd like it even better if I could keep you on your feet. Totally agree. My luck doesn't exactly help matters, either. Hey, Zeph, you said we in the cemetery battle would be promised some great loot down the road... Edited January 25, 2013 by The Legonater Quote
Waterbrick Down Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 (edited) If I were with my bricks, I'd take you and the automaton on one right now. Newbie quests are the best. You don't need bricks, I've run nearly 50% of Quest 54 with old material. Edited January 25, 2013 by Waterbrick Down Quote
JimBee Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 Witch isn't an underpowered class, its Shield is. We've got the ability to heal, but Assassins can fight from the back row. We can Badly Poison, but Assassins can OHKO. We can Hex one enemy, but Assassins get to cut a bloody swath through their opponents and gain obscene amounts of gold at the same time...that is my issue. But that's exactly what I'm saying - the class is so versatile and powerful in it's other aspects that it's Shield doesn't need much of a boost. And those aren't really fair comparisons. You can fight from the back row, too. Many enemies are immune to OHKO, so Assassins are severely crippled in boss fights, and I think one enemy in the history of Heroica has been immune to poisoning so far. You can hex one enemy any time you roll shield, but by no means do assassins cut through enemies. The gold is nice, yes, but it looks like Witches will be getting that soon, too. Without OHKO, an Assassin is next to useless because they don't deal a great amount of damage, can't heal, and can't use shields. Witches can also use scrolls. Each class has its own strengths and weaknesses, and while I haven't played as a Witch, I think they can do a lot of things for all situations, even if they're not the most powerful. IMO, they trade strength for versatility, so I think maybe that's why Hex is considered underpowered. Totally agree. My luck doesn't exactly help matters, either. Hey, Zeph, you said we in the cemetary battle would be promised so great lot down the road... I was going to suggest you buy nostrums as a substitute for SP, but I forgot you had a lucky die. Even that's not helping. Quote
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