Heroica RPG General Discussion

[CorneliusMurdock]

I was going to suggest you buy nostrums as a substitute for SP, but I forgot you had a lucky die. Even that's not helping.

And the enemy is jinxed!

[Scubacarrot]

@Skyrimguy

You finished a quest, didn't you? Then you are allowed to pitch ideas for quests. I have also seen your room of Sarge, which was a great Moc and Photo. I think you'd do great in the building department for the quest. If you can't think of ideas, try following this line of thought, you don't have to have a whole story in one idea. How it mostly works is you get a raw idea for a story, and you work them out. Quests don't have to be all epic, in fact, it is most of the time better if they are not! Less "epic quests" have more potential to be funny, lighthearted and just surprising, I've found.

As soon as you know what general theme you want your quest to have, ask: Who would hire Heroica? Your questgiver, if you will. Is it one of the Houses, the town watch needing help again, a farmer in Uland, an ordinairy townsman that lives in Eubric, perhaps a far away merchant? The next question is: Why would they come to Heroica as opposed to something else. Heroica has a price, and they aren't always the only force with weapons, there should be a reason Heroica is picked. Think long and hard over who wants what of the Heroes, and why. If you are working with parties already established, which is great by the way, consistancy is awesome, you need to do two things: Ask permission to use any characters or factions made up by other QMs, and think: Is what I want my party to do really something my party would do. Example: In the Questmaster's topic there were quests proposed in which Hinckwell's would hire Heroes to kill or destroy Shadeaux assets. Why would they do that? If that was traced back to them, they might be in a lot of trouble. The houses are sneaky, and would do very little to risk their position. An example for how you possibly could work on that Hinckwell/Shadeaux rivalry, is this: The Shadeaux are having negotiations with a Shipping Company based in, say Strivvi, The Shadeaux having that shipping company in that place would be very profitable for them. The Hinckwell's would of course want that to not happen. The Heroes are hired to make sure the negotiations go sour. Deadly force on the Shipping Company dude is not encouraged, and if used will be punished with a severe cut of the reward. The Heroes could follow the Shadeaux and the Shipping Company dude around as they would negotiate, doing things that would make the Shadeaux look bad. If the Heroes are really good, perhaps if they manage to cause the Shipping Company to make the deal with the Hinckwells, there could be a bigger reward. Here is already an idea for a quest that could work, and I kinda want this to be a thing now. Your Questgiver is key.

Once you have your general theme, then think of a general flow of the quest. Where will the Heroes go, in what order, what obstacles, what battles are they going to face when. For example, a quick flow of the quest above. The Heroes start with a meeting with the quest giver. Let's assume the Shadeaux meeting Shipping Company Dude, let's call him SCD, will be in Eubric. The heroes could on their way to their first meeting, meet up with some bandits, Eubric is a dangerous place! Alternatively the quest could be somewhere else, which the heroes would need to travel to, also oppertunity for battle and obstacles. With obstacles I mean puzzles or having to use class abilities or roleplaying to continue. Then the heroes could spy on the meeting, and then follow the party around, perhaps defeating bodyguards showing that the Shadeaux are not very secure, poisoning food, destroying crates, forging numbers, that sort of thing. Think of things you want to do first, mechanics second. With chance and battles you can make a lot of things happen. For each of the things there could be either a battle or a roleplaying oppertunity. Like either battling the chef, or having the party pose as the new kitchen help! The quest would continue with having a confrontation which would pan out differently depending on how many things the party would have done succesfully. Then final meeting with the quest giver and voila.

A good quest does not come to you instantly, and it's okay to sit on an idea for a while you work out details. The order of things COULD be: Theme, Questgiver, Story ,Flow, Mechanics/Battles/Everything else.

And, I kinda like this idea. Steal it!

[CMP]

But that's exactly what I'm saying - the class is so versatile and powerful in it's other aspects that it's Shield doesn't need much of a boost. And those aren't really fair comparisons. You can fight from the back row, too. Many enemies are immune to OHKO, so Assassins are severely crippled in boss fights, and I think one enemy in the history of Heroica has been immune to poisoning so far. You can hex one enemy any time you roll shield, but by no means do assassins cut through enemies. The gold is nice, yes, but it looks like Witches will be getting that soon, too.

Without OHKO, an Assassin is next to useless because they don't deal a great amount of damage, can't heal, and can't use shields. Witches can also use scrolls. Each class has its own strengths and weaknesses, and while I haven't played as a Witch, I think they can do a lot of things for all situations, even if they're not the most powerful. IMO, they trade strength for versatility, so I think maybe that's why Hex is considered underpowered.

I meant that you can fight with full effectiveness from the back row, as Assassins are part Ranger. I know Witches are quite versatile, but they're not particularly powerful. Like I said, they're a decent class, they can do an array of things, but they do not make up for the fact that what should be their best roll is less effective than even a Miss (Poison), and indeed, Hex as it is is about on par with Confuse, Sorcerer's Miss roll. That's not versatile, that's just plain underpowered. Once again, a 50/50 chance to Hex each opponent I find reasonable and desirable to roll, even with no gold involved. Gaining gold every time Hex is rolled is great and all, but it's not solving the problem I pointed out earlier. I'd rather it be more useful than adding in any sort of gold stealing ability.

Edited January 25, 2013 by CallMePie

[JimBee]

And the enemy is jinxed!

Poor you guys. Maybe the Lucky Die has a hidden jinxed effect in it, and they're not as OP as we thought?

I meant that you can fight with full effectiveness from the back row, as Assassins are part Ranger. I know Witches are quite versatile, but they're not particularly powerful. Like I said, they're a decent class, they can do an array of things, but they do not make up for the fact that what should be their best roll is less effective than even a Miss (Poison), and indeed, Hex as it is is about on par with Confuse, Sorcerer's Miss roll. That's not versatile, that's just plain underpowered. Once again, a 50/50 chance to Hex each opponent I find reasonable and desirable to roll, even with no gold involved. Gaining gold every time Hex is rolled is great and all, but it's not solving the problem I pointed out earlier. I'd rather it be more useful than adding in any sort of gold stealing ability.

Yes, versatile but not powerful. Choose one. But yes, I see what you're saying now. The main problem I have with an AoE Hex is that it might be too powerful. Would having the Hex last three rounds be reasonable?

[CMP]

That's why I brought up the idea of a 50/50 chance. A longer lasting Hex was my first suggestion.

[Zepher]

3 rounds wouldn't be bad, if we need that.

[Sandy]

Alright, some rulings are desperately needed, it seems:

Lucky and Jinxed negate each other's effects, but they do not cancel each other out. So if one gets removed, the other stays. I've edited the FAQ to confirm this.

Lucky and Jinxed only affect the battle result roll, not any other roll (unless otherwise specified). This includes scrolls, special guard, assassination odds, etc. However, the Alchemist's "Mixture" is affected by lucky and jinxed, as stated in the rules.

Would having the Hex last three rounds be reasonable?

I actually want to avoid Shield-skills causing effects that last longer than a round, because "Shields" rolled on consecutive rounds would be pointless - and "Shield" is something everyone should want to see, at least in most cases. I already had to change "War Cry" because of that.

I'm leaning towards changing "Hex" to "Mass Illusion" where each enemy faced gets 1/2 chance of getting hexed for a round. That way the skill will be more powerful than now, but also has a chance to be less powerful. Doesn't that sound like a compromise to everyone?

[JimBee]

That's why I brought up the idea of a 50/50 chance. A longer lasting Hex was my first suggestion.

But even that seems very powerful. Originally I was going to say that doing the extra dice rolls would add more to a QM's checklist when running rounds, but then so does having Hex last three rounds.

[Endgame]

I think 1/2 is a tad much - I'd still say 1/3 or 1/6.

[CMP]

I'm leaning towards changing "Hex" to "Mass Illusion" where each enemy faced gets 1/2 chance of getting hexed for a round. That way the skill will be more powerful than now, but also has a chance to be less powerful. Doesn't that sound like a compromise to everyone?

That sounds good.

[JimBee]

I'm leaning towards changing "Hex" to "Mass Illusion" where each enemy faced gets 1/2 chance of getting hexed for a round. That way the skill will be more powerful than now, but also has a chance to be less powerful. Doesn't that sound like a compromise to everyone?

Oh, I was under the impression that there would be one guaranteed Hex (on the target enemy), and then 1/2 for all others. 1/2 for all makes things simple, and I suppose it's worth a shot.

[Sandy]

I think 1/2 is a tad much - I'd still say 1/3 or 1/6.

Why? As said, hexed isn't really that powerful an effect, and it only lasts for one round. 1/6 is a really low chance, making the whole skill nigh useless. Assassins at least get the gold gain from their Shield-skill, should all their assassination attempts fail.

[Zepher]

1/3 chance if it is a AoE sounds good to me.

[Endgame]

Perhaps 1/3 is more suitable then. Since groups of enemies of at least 3 are usually the minimum number of enemies, and groups of more then 6+ enemies are increasingly common, chances are as long as you have about 4-5 enemies you are going to have 2 of them hexed. Hexed I think is a very underestimated status effect: it is a round-long stun that not only lets the heroes beat on them without fear, but they will also automatically attack one enemy. Taking into account that enemies Witches will hex are typically level 16+ or so, and they now may have buffs such as Encouraged or Hastened, hex becomes very potent.

[CMP]

Taking into account that enemies Witches will hex are typically level 16+ or so, and they now may have buffs such as Encouraged or Hastened, hex becomes very potent.

We don't have disposable income like other Rogue classes, so the opportunity for consumables is surprisingly low. And Encouraged wouldn't affect hex at all. Hex is like a more potent Stun, I agree there, but seeing as how it's a 50/50 chance and there's a lack of gold, it's not any more powerful than, say, Magnetic Mojo. And there's the Talisman we have to buy to make Poisoned Hits worth anything, too. I think it's reasonable, but of course I would say that.

Edited January 25, 2013 by CallMePie

[Scubacarrot]

I think he means the enemies might have those effects.

[Endgame]

Excuse me, the enemies being hexed may have buffs.

I forgot a few words...

Edited January 25, 2013 by Endgame

[CMP]

If any of the enemies are buffed, there's probably less enemies to hex in the first place.

[Flipz]

Lucky and Jinxed only affect the battle result roll, not any other roll (unless otherwise specified). This includes scrolls, special guard, assassination odds, etc. However, the Alchemist's "Mixture" is affected by lucky and jinxed, as stated in the rules.

I actually want to avoid Shield-skills causing effects that last longer than a round, because "Shields" rolled on consecutive rounds would be pointless - and "Shield" is something everyone should want to see, at least in most cases. I already had to change "War Cry" because of that.

I'm leaning towards changing "Hex" to "Mass Illusion" where each enemy faced gets 1/2 chance of getting hexed for a round. That way the skill will be more powerful than now, but also has a chance to be less powerful. Doesn't that sound like a compromise to everyone?

Nerfed again...oh, well.

I like that for Witch, it's still not totally OP, but also lets the Witch's SHIELD actually help the party.

Also, my main computer is down for...the forseeable future. I MAY be able to check in once a day (if I'm lucky), but otherwise... WBD can control Arthur for the time being if I'm not around.

[Endgame]

Chimera Guards - they typically come in packs of 6 to 8, it seems. Imagine that you are against a horde of them, and you rolled Hex on the first round - if you have 6 of them, the odds are you'll hex 2 and get 4 attacks out of them.

Then again, that may just be Zeph.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Endgame

[CMP]

Chimera Guards - they typically come in packs of 6 to 8, it seems. Imagine that you are against a horde of them, and you rolled Hex on the first round - if you have 6 of them, the odds are you'll hex 2 and get 4 attacks out of them.

Because that's not an unlikely scenario at all...

[Endgame]

It is the most relatable one, and my calculations are mathematically sound. Only problem is they don't take into account the ever unquantifiable variable of bad luck...

But, to further explain my 1/3 reasoning, like you said the Witch is already quite versatile. A 50% chance to turn enemies into both summons and pincushions would maybe be more suitable if they didn't have things like Special Mirror going for them... a 33% chance in my mind seems sound.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Endgame

[Flipz]

Problem is, 50% or more of the time, Special Mirror ends up being enough to KO the Witch before they can reflect the attack...

[CMP]

We're talking about a Shield roll, it's supposed to be reasonably powerful. Special Mirror is just a devious way to get back at QMs for overpowered Special Skills making the best of a bad situation...

It's not like an instant kill, or even Badly Poisoning. Hex only lasts one round.

[Endgame]

The overall goal is to be balanced and fun to play - you can't just start discounting your abilities to get a better one!

Also, 3,000th post. Woot woot.