Heroica RPG General Discussion

[Pyrovisionary]

Sarge is in the hall. also, He is going to murder those who try to take his place on quest 59. Or in his layman's terms. You can't decline me if there aren't too many applicants!

[Sandy]

The FAQ has been updated with a question related to the Healing Rod (aka. the bane of my existence):

Q: How does the Healing Rod work, exactly?

A: In most cases, it works like when attacking someone with a normal weapon, but instead of causing damage, it heals the target instead. It does damage undead enemies like all healing, though. Because of it's unique properties, the Healing Rod sometimes overrides some battle results. If it is used on another hero, for example, the healer will not be damaged even if "DAMAGE" or "SPECIAL DAMAGE" are rolled. Those rolls are counted as a "MISS" in that case. The Healing Rod can also change some "SHIELD"-skills if you're using it on an ally. The main principle is that the Healing Rod never causes damage except to the undead. Consult your Quest Master if you are unsure how the Healing Rod works with your class.

[Zepher]

Sandy, I know I've floated this idea before, but what if all the Healing Rods just burned all of a sudden?

[Sandy]

Sandy, I know I've floated this idea before, but what if all the Healing Rods just burned all of a sudden?

I'd hate to have to deal with all the pleas for refunds.

I've already made myself swear not to sell them ever again.

[Wedge09]

Flare, I have to say, I really like your banner for quest 58 Green and Gone

[Flare]

Flare, I have to say, I really like your banner for quest 58 Green and Gone

Thanks! But I must give the credit to Sandy - he designed it for me and I do admit that he outdid himself

(and my quest is 57, not 58 )

Edited February 20, 2013 by Flare

[Zepher]

Sorry all, it's at least been rule changes that have been tripping me up recently!

[JimBee]

Sorry to keep going on about this, but if the Healing Rod overrides some Shield skills, then the same should apply for all. Particularly, the Battle Mage's. Previously, when a Battle Mage attacked with a healing staff, the rod would heal and then deal elemental damage because of the nature of the shield skill when a 1 was rolled. This was usually counter intuitive, as it KOd party members rather than heal them. Since the Mystic Knight can't deal AoE elemental damage to enemies with the healing staff, shouldn't these two cases be treated the same?

I don't remember if the Battle Mage was already changed to reflect is, though.

[Zepher]

Anyone with healing rods on my quests from now on are leaving them at the door. I have enough trouble with the rules as it is.

[CorneliusMurdock]

If Battle Mage was changed not to deal damage, it was very, very recently. We had that issue just this battle.

[Sandy]

Sorry to keep going on about this, but if the Healing Rod overrides some Shield skills, then the same should apply for all. Particularly, the Battle Mage's. Previously, when a Battle Mage attacked with a healing staff, the rod would heal and then deal elemental damage because of the nature of the shield skill when a 1 was rolled. This was usually counter intuitive, as it KOd party members rather than heal them. Since the Mystic Knight can't deal AoE elemental damage to enemies with the healing staff, shouldn't these two cases be treated the same?

I don't remember if the Battle Mage was already changed to reflect is, though.

I don't remember saying anything about Battle Mages with Healing Rods, either.

This is exactly what makes the item so difficult - it cannot be logically applied to every single situation. As the FAQ text says, I'll leave it up to each QMs jurisdiction to decide how to operate. I personally would not make healing attempts KO anyone... (unless they were undead ).

[Endgame]

(unless they were undead ).

"Wha -?! The game rules are discriminating against me now?!"

Edited February 20, 2013 by Endgame

[Pandora]

If Battle Mage was changed not to deal damage, it was very, very recently. We had that issue just this battle.

It hasn't been changed. I would really, really like it to, despite it being a constant source of stress to both Sandy and Zepher.

I really do agree with JimB's points, but I don't remember KOing anyone while trying to heal them. I don't think Jeb was BM long enough to, and maybe I've just forgotten or I've blanked it from my memory.

Specifically this point:

Since the Mystic Knight can't deal AoE elemental damage to enemies with the healing staff, shouldn't these two cases be treated the same?

[Zepher]

It has never KO'd anyone, just left them unhealed. The shield roll says that there is a physical attack first, and then an elemental attack, so I've always just had them cancel each other out. For heroes in my quest, I will continue to do it that way, sorry. The Healing Staffs are complicated, so I'm reading them as literally as possible.

[Scorpiox]

I personally would not make healing attempts KO anyone... (unless they were undead ).

Argh, don't remind me of that undead battle.

[Brickdoctor]

"Wha -?! The game rules are discriminating against me now?!"

"Wha- ?! I'm affected by the Enamored-effect just because I'm a male human?!"

[JimBee]

If Battle Mage was changed not to deal damage, it was very, very recently. We had that issue just this battle.

Yes, I think it was updated/clarified with Hoke's situation, and I missed it when the same thing happened in Quest 50.

It has never KO'd anyone, just left them unhealed. The shield roll says that there is a physical attack first, and then an elemental attack, so I've always just had them cancel each other out. For heroes in my quest, I will continue to do it that way, sorry. The Healing Staffs are complicated, so I'm reading them as literally as possible.

But they wouldn't always cancel each other out if you're doing it that way. Darkness would always deal double elemental damage, and the physical and elemental damage dealt by Spellblade are calculated differently.

I would also agree that we should just get rid of a headache of an item, if it weren't for the fact that we still need at least a pseudo-healer for the remaining half of the Pagoda.

[Flipz]

But they wouldn't always cancel each other out if you're doing it that way. Darkness would always deal double elemental damage, and the physical and elemental damage dealt by Spellblade are calculated differently.

Darkness does NOT do double damage on Heroes.

I personally think that it'd just be easier to establish what SHIELDs and Miss rolls are altered by the Healing Staff and which ones are not right now, and then the item won't be that big of a problem anymore.

Tentative list:

Unaffected by Healing Staff:

Cleric

Druid

Evoker

Paladin

Sage

Shaman

Sorcerer

Witch

Necromancer

Regulator

Prophet

Altered by Healing Staff:

Mystic Knight (heals entire party via Spellspin mechanic)

Battle Mage (???)

Mage (???)

[CorneliusMurdock]

I would also agree that we should just get rid of a headache of an item, if it weren't for the fact that we still need at least a pseudo-healer for the remaining half of the Pagoda.

They could all disintegrate when any hero carrying them returns to the hall. But I think something would have to be given to the owners of them to make up for their loss.

Oh, idea.

Replace them with a Scroll of Healing. Make it heal a base amount for maybe 2 ether? It would still be a healing item that could be used by mage classes but not bogged down by attack rules.

[Sandy]

Altered by Healing Staff:

Mystic Knight (heals entire party via Spellspin mechanic)

Battle Mage (???)

Mage (???)

Oh, I would've thought there were more unclear cases.

For Mages, it is simple. "Magic Burst" is a magic spell that deals random elemental damage to all enemies. It only uses the WP of the Healing Rod, not the healing effect, so it is unaffected by it.

For Mystic Knights, "Spellspin" is a physical elemental attack, which means that weapon effects apply. So while using the Healing Rod, the MK could accidentally end up healing the enemy party. That's why the Shield-skill will target the heroes instead, in this specific case.

For Battle Mages, the problem lies in the fact that while the physical attack of "Spellblade" would heal the target, the accompanying magic spell would cause damage. The simplest solution would be that only the healing would be counted, leaving the spell out of it.

[Pandora]

For Battle Mages, the problem lies in the fact that while the physical attack of "Spellblade" would heal the target, the accompanying magic spell would cause damage. The simplest solution would be that only the healing would be counted, leaving the spell out of it.

This is a great solution, thank you Sandy!

[Palathadric]

I agree, Sandy. It seems the simplest solution to me.

"Wha -?! The game rules are discriminating against me now?!"

Care for a fight in the arena? I've got the game rules on my side.

[Siercon and Coral]

Welcome back, Siercon! It's been a while

Yeah, welcome back!

Thanks guys, glad to be back! Sorry we've been out. Steph and I have been super busy building for the Iron builder, and it's time for some less stressful more rpg Legoing ... :cough: not that the MOCathalon is happening in a week

Looks like I've got some rule reading to catch up on

[Flipz]

So, question, would an Undead Etherial enemy take no damage from anything but healing, or would it take 1x damage from Light spells/weapons?

[Jebediahs]

Sandy, I know I've floated this idea before, but what if all the Healing Rods just burned all of a sudden?

O_o;

I don't know why but I thought for Healing Rods /rolls 1-3 healed for WP only, /rolls 4-6 Missed and vs undead the rod functioned as a normal weapon.