Heroica RPG General Discussion

[Zepher]

Oh Jebs, that would be far too easy and not complicated at all!

[Flare]

So, question, would an Undead Etherial enemy take no damage from anything but healing, or would it take 1x damage from Light spells/weapons?

Seriously how could an enemy be both undead and Etherial? They're quite different and I don't think they could overlap.

[CMP]

Seriously how could an enemy be both undead and Etherial? They're quite different and I don't think they could overlap.

Why not?

[Flare]

Why not?

Undead means once it was alive, then it died, and afterwards raised as an Undead by a necromancer.

Etherial means it is a spirit made of ether... It can't be dead like in human terms, therefore it can't be undead.

[CMP]

Undead means once it was alive, then it died, and afterwards raised as an Undead by a necromancer.

Etherial means it is a spirit made of ether... It can't be dead like in human terms, therefore it can't be undead.

You act like no QM is going to be able to come up with some way to justify it.

[Flare]

You act like no QM is going to be able to come up with some way to justify it.

But a QM has to make an enemy that your able to damage

[Zepher]

Healing can still damage them.

[Brickdoctor]

O_o;

I don't know why but I thought for Healing Rods /rolls 1-3 healed for WP only, /rolls 4-6 Missed and vs undead the rod functioned as a normal weapon.

Oh Jebs, that would be far too easy and not complicated at all!

Actually if I remember correctly, that was how I handled it in Quest 17. I'm not sure if I corrected it or not later on.

[Flipz]

But a QM has to make an enemy that your able to damage

With healing and (depending on Sandy's clarification), Light-elemental attacks. Besides, some enemies aren't meant to be beaten.

And honestly, I was mostly asking for purposes of making sure my character can handle such an enemy, I wasn't planning to make one.

Although if you'd like I could always make an exception...

Solar Flare

Level 40 Undead/Etherial *Immune to physical attacks* *Immune to elements* *Immune to Light* *Immune to Assassination* *Favors Wardens (x3 damage)*

HP: 640/640

Defense: 20

Special: Blinding Blaze - The Solar Flare radiates an aura of light and flame, causing 30 Fire-elemental damage, Blinding all opponents for 3 Rounds, and Burning the Hero who rolled Special Damage for 3 damage per Round for the rest of the Quest (Burn cannot be remedied).

Passive Special: Wrath Igniter - The Solar Flare ignites the recklessness and anger of any Hero targetting it, causing them to become Encouraged, Enraged, and Fragile for the rest of the battle or until remedied.

Passive Special II: Intangible - Attacks that do not deal damage do not transmit Effects to the Solar Flare. (Scrolls will still work.)

Drops: 5x Megabloking Worthless Accessory (does absolutely nothing, wasting the Artifact slot and counting towards the bearer's total Artifact limit. May not be sold or traded, must always be worn while owned. Breaks after 15 battles.)

Edited February 21, 2013 by Flipz

[CorneliusMurdock]

O_o;

I don't know why but I thought for Healing Rods /rolls 1-3 healed for WP only, /rolls 4-6 Missed and vs undead the rod functioned as a normal weapon.

That is much simpler but that's basically a scroll that doesn't use ether except for the damaging undead part. If it's going to be that simple, I think my idea of just making them scrolls would work better.

[Zepher]

The whole point of a healing staff is that it doesn't use ether though. It needs to be usable by Clerics, or else it's just a way to make mage classes into cleric-mage hybrids.

I DID like your suggestion until I thought of that though. Healing staffs just suck. They just do. They're very game-breaking in their use too. They basically have the same chance of a success as a healing, except that they don't cost ether.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Zepher

[Flipz]

I think that, now that Mystic Knights and Battle Mages have been clarified, the Healing Staff is fine. Those classes have specific cases made for their SHIELD rolls, and everything else is fine as stated in Sandy's new FAQ addition.

The whole point of a healing staff is that it doesn't use ether though. It needs to be usable by Clerics, or else it's just a way to make mage classes into cleric-mage hybrids.

I DID like your suggestion until I thought of that though. Healing staffs just suck. They just do. They're very game-breaking in their use too. They basically have the same chance of a success as a healing, except that they don't cost ether.

Note, however, that with the exception of Mystic Knights, the healer doesn't have a chance to heal the whole party on a SHIELD, and also Healing Staffs can't be used outside of battle. Plus there's a limited number of them, and there will likely never be any more, so...

[Zepher]

I just think they're a terrible item for literally countless reasons. I know Sandy doesn't take offense at me saying so because, considering that she's made probably over 100 great items for this game, she's allowed one bad one (I've even designed items I personally hate hosting)- but I REALLY do hate the Healing Staff, and will probably not take anyone holding one on a quest from here on in.

[CorneliusMurdock]

The whole point of a healing staff is that it doesn't use ether though. It needs to be usable by Clerics, or else it's just a way to make mage classes into cleric-mage hybrids.

How many cleric class people have them? Cronk had one for a while but there was hardly ever a logical time to use it rather than heal.

I think turning it into a scroll keeps it as a back-up for the mage classes to use but balances it because it's not an ether-less healer.

[swils]

Undead means once it was alive, then it died, and afterwards raised as an Undead by a necromancer.

Etherial means it is a spirit made of ether... It can't be dead like in human terms, therefore it can't be undead.

I'd argue that a Lich would be a valid candidate for Undead/Etherial. It has the skeletal framework of a once-living creature (generally humanoid), but through magic, bound its spirit and intelligence to its remains. The whole 'binding its conscious to its remains' implies a strong magical presence that remains with the Lich, beyond simply reanimation. Why, just about anyone can summon the dead to unlife to serve their bidding. It takes a specially trained and dedicated wizard to harness the power of the ether to keep their spirit from fleeing their body once they pass.

Basically, liches are basically bags of bones with a definite magical presence about them that preserves their spirit/intelligence/conscience within their now-undead remains.

Ta-da! Undead/Etherial

Edited February 21, 2013 by swils

[Zepher]

And it would cost ether if it failed too, making it slightly worse than healing. I'd be pretty on board with that solution, actually.

[Flipz]

How many cleric class people have them? Cronk had one for a while but there was hardly ever a logical time to use it rather than heal.

I think turning it into a scroll keeps it as a back-up for the mage classes to use but balances it because it's not an ether-less healer.

Mages already have to deal with far greater Ether shortages than Clerics, and you think it should be made worse? Having it as a weapon also lets the healing scale with level, whereas a set amount of healing won't be NEARLY as helpful--and keep in mind, most mages these days HAVE to be at absolute max health if they don't want to be OHKO'd by Damage rolls.

I say let sleeping dogs lie; it's a rare item that's a boon to those who have them. Consider it a "loyalty bonus" for playing back when they were available; those of us who saved up to obtain them (and mind you, for some of us that took a lot of effort) shouldn't be punished for making a good character optimization choice.

EDIT: Not to mention Scrolls aren't affected by Lucky. No, turning the Healing Staff into a Scroll would be a MAJOR problem, I absolutely cannot support that proposal.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Flipz

[Zepher]

That's okay. I absolutely can't take healing staffs on future quests with me, though.

[CorneliusMurdock]

Aw... pretty sleeping puppy... Poke!

I saved up for it myself, I know how that is. It's a specialty item that is broken in many ways. I think clerics should be essential and that an item like the staff should be an emergency type thing, not a replacement for choosing a cleric class.

Just thought of this: making it a scroll might actually benefit Arthur and his Lens... Okay, now I'm against it.

[PsyKater]

[...] Steph and I have been super busy building for the Iron builder, [...]

It was definitively worth it! I am still stunned....

[Palathadric]

Solar Flare

-snip-

My eyes!

They basically have the same chance of a success as a healing, except that they don't cost ether.

I thought Healing Staffs miss on rolls of 4 instead of "healing less."

[Brickdoctor]

I thought Healing Staffs miss on rolls of 4 instead of "healing less."

I'm pretty sure they have a similar effect to Heal Less if the user has Aim for the fourth roll instead of Miss.

[Flare]

Flipz, I hate you At least the most invincible enemy is named after me

[Sandy]

So, question, would an Undead Etherial enemy take no damage from anything but healing, or would it take 1x damage from Light spells/weapons?

As the rules state, elemental weakness and elemental immunity counter each other, so an Undead Ethereal enemy would take normal damage from healing and light-elemental attacks, but would be unaffected by everything else.

[Pandora]

I REALLY do hate the Healing Staff, and will probably not take anyone holding one on a quest from here on in.

That's okay. I absolutely can't take healing staffs on future quests with me, though.

I'm pretty sure they have a similar effect to Heal Less if the user has Aim for the fourth roll instead of Miss.

It was also decided a while back that my Counter (roll of 4) would also heal, much to Zeph's annoyance.