Heroica RPG General Discussion

[UsernameMDM]

Figure it out. I can promise you that it will be consistent after this. So use this round to discover how it works, and after that every time it returns, it will be the same, and you'll know what to do.

I am really not trying to be rude or poke the beast, but in a quest based on chaos with a QM that (understandable) enjoys keeping the party on their toes, it's kind of useless to 'figure it out.' What would make perfect sense to someone in the party may not fit into the dynamic/mechanic of your design.

The ONLY thing I can think of is to damage Nyx to near death, and when Wren switches back, she will inherit the damage proportionately to her HP. For example, if Nyx has a total of 10 HP and goes down to 1 HP, when Wren switches back, from the 100 max HP she has, she would be down to 10 HP. That could make sense to me and some of the party, but may not fit into the mechanic.

But, as it stands, I will just stick with my chosen actions.

[Sandy]

Referring to an earlier question about magic spells and throwing weapons, the answer is no, throwing weapons are not thrown when casting a spell through them. Remember that spells only use the WP of the weapon, not any effects they might have.

And no, throwing weapons do not double as melee weapons either. Come on, we've played this game for nearly two years now - when have you seen such a thing happen?

[Brickdoctor]

And no, throwing weapons do not double as melee weapons either. Come on, we've played this game for nearly two years now - when have you seen such a thing happen?

Well, um, actually, I let Dharkan do it in Quest 17. For one reason or another I thought that Isabella's melee dagger could be thrown, so I let her throw it from the top of a tower at an elf on some wall... and then made her walk all the way across the fort to get it back.

[Sandy]

Well, um, actually, I let Dharkan do it in Quest 17.

I forgive you. The rules about weapon categories have been clarified after that, anyway.

[Flipz]

Well, um, actually, I let Dharkan do it in Quest 17. For one reason or another I thought that Isabella's melee dagger could be thrown, so I let her throw it from the top of a tower at an elf on some wall... and then made her walk all the way across the fort to get it back.

I blame you for my confusion, then.

[Cutcobra]

Meh, if you have the personality of a child, you are a child, right?

I think orcs just can't speak exactly like humans. Do they speak their own language?

[Waterbrick Down]

I am really not trying to be rude or poke the beast, but in a quest based on chaos with a QM that (understandable) enjoys keeping the party on their toes, it's kind of useless to 'figure it out.' What would make perfect sense to someone in the party may not fit into the dynamic/mechanic of your design.

The ONLY thing I can think of is to damage Nyx to near death, and when Wren switches back, she will inherit the damage proportionately to her HP. For example, if Nyx has a total of 10 HP and goes down to 1 HP, when Wren switches back, from the 100 max HP she has, she would be down to 10 HP. That could make sense to me and some of the party, but may not fit into the mechanic.

But, as it stands, I will just stick with my chosen actions.

I think Zepher's point is valid, yes we are dealing with a situation that hasn't ever really occurred before, but if we use this round to experiment (an excellent round to do so given we have the guardian angel) we'll know exactly how to capitalize on the situation when it happens again. We are in know way in a terrible position right now, remember this is a final boss fight against Wren, did we expect it to be easy or straight forward? As long as Zepher has an exact pre-planned layout for how things will work depending upon what we do, I'm satisfied. It's when a QM is wishy washy and hasn't really planned ahead for an awkward situation like this one and just makes things up as they go along, that I'll cry foul, as their decision can easily be influenced by what is currently going on in the battle.

I think orcs just can't speak exactly like humans. Do they speak their own language?

Orcs have their own language and depending on how much education or interaction with other races they may be able to speak others. Generally in this game, most orcs have been portrayed to have a little difficulty in human, but certainly not all.

[TheBoyWonder]

For example the Feather Serpent, (can't remember his normal name) who speaks perfect human.

[UsernameMDM]

I think Zepher's point is valid, yes we are dealing with a situation that hasn't ever really occurred before, but if we use this round to experiment (an excellent round to do so given we have the guardian angel) we'll know exactly how to capitalize on the situation when it happens again. We are in know way in a terrible position right now, remember this is a final boss fight against Wren, did we expect it to be easy or straight forward?

That's one BIG if. Don't get me wrong, I am enjoying this fight and didn't expect it to go fast, but the mechanics of this game have always been hashed out really well. So, when a situation arises that is not an out of battle puzzle that is a 'figure it out' kind of thing, it's kind of irksome.

[Flipz]

That's one BIG if. Don't get me wrong, I am enjoying this fight and didn't expect it to go fast, but the mechanics of this game have always been hashed out really well. So, when a situation arises that is not an out of battle puzzle that is a 'figure it out' kind of thing, it's kind of irksome.

This is how Zepher Quests operate. There is no such thing as a "good" decision on a Zepher Quest, one way or another your choices (and battle actions, and that one minor enemy you targetted in a battle two Quests ago, and that random comment you made back in the Hall when you first joined) always come back to bite you in the @ss. Zepher Quests are the closest you can get to a "hardcore" Heroica experience, with the exception of Jebediahs' Quest 35.

The payoff, of course, is great roleplaying opportunities, but if you're not really into those already a hardcore roleplayer and/or the situation isn't specifically prompting things for your character, then things can get awkward and/or patience-trying. It's a matter of different playstyles, and it really seems that this Quest has been really, really difficult for some players' playstyles. Zeph's tried his best to keep switching things up, but with a group this large it's just not possible to keep everyone engaged, and that's what's happening here; some players, like Pie and WBD, are thriving on the mechanical difficulties, while some, like you, CM, and Pandora, (and, I have to admit, me to an extent) are getting frustrated by them. Likewise, some players (Scorpiox, Legonater, WBD, and I) are thriving on the roleplaying options available here, while others (again, you, CM, and Pandora, though correct me if I've misread you) seem to be irritated by the roleplaying and still others (Professor Flitwick and Masked Builder) are just sort of fading into the background because the roleplaying choices here are not overly interesting to them. That's the true downside of a large party, even moreso than difficult battle calculations.

TL;DR, when selecting a party the players' general playstyle matters, as it affects who will be engaged by your content and who won't be--and the larger the party, the more likely people will end up left out and/or minimized.

On a tangental note, I'm getting sick of seeing enemies that are immune to ALL effects--poison immunity in particular is very loathsome. Endgame has proved that it's more than possible to have a challenging boss fight even when the enemy is suffering a constant amount of damage each Round; said damage is a nice Anti-Frustration Feature that helps retain a sense of progress without imbalancing the fight.

[The Legonater]

I think the above is definitely true. It's one of the reasons I, personally, find the Fields boring - I'm more of an RPing sort of guy, where as the Fields are basically a meat grinder. It's also why I enjoy Heroica and Mystery games over Mafia.

Edited March 15, 2013 by The Legonater

[CMP]

You're missing the point. We're not annoyed at the Quest. We're annoyed at this one situation where we're being left in the dark about the battle's mechanics. That's not what battles are/should be. Everything should be explained clearly so we can formulate a strategy around it, we shouldn't have to guess how a battle works, especially in such an insanely difficult battle. We're having trouble enough surviving when we do know what's going on.

Well, I am, anyway, I can't speak for anyone else.

Just my thoughts.

[UsernameMDM]

I hope Zepher isn't taking any of this as more than a minor complaint. I have had a good time on this quest.

As far as role playing Flipz, I try to fit it in realistically. If I am addressed, I respond. If I see a situation that needs a boost, I provide it. What I don't do, like in real life, is just go on and on in front of people I have little to no history with. If you care to reread the quest, you can see that is my role playing style.

You're missing the point. We're not annoyed at the Quest. We're annoyed at this one situation where we're being left in the dark about the battle's mechanics. That's not what battles are/should be. Everything should be explained clearly so we can formulate a strategy around it, we shouldn't have to guess how a battle works, especially in such an insanely difficult battle. We're having trouble enough surviving when we do know what's going on.

Well, I am, anyway, I can't speak for anyone else.

Just my thoughts.

Concur.

[Brickdoctor]

I forgive you. The rules about weapon categories have been clarified after that, anyway.

I blame you for my confusion, then.

For example the Feather Serpent, (can't remember his normal name) who speaks perfect human.

Kukulkan, I think.

I think orcs just can't speak exactly like humans. Do they speak their own language?

I don't think we've ever had an orc, PC or NPC, who spoke a lot of a definite orcish language. I know we've taken a couple languages from Tolkien because of how well they're defined (Chromeknight uses Quenya, I know), but there's no real orcish language in Middle Earth, I believe. (they just use the Black Speech when not speaking Common Speech/Westron, right?)

[Dannylonglegs]

....

On a tangental note, I'm getting sick of seeing enemies that are immune to ALL effects--poison immunity in particular is very loathsome. Endgame has proved that it's more than possible to have a challenging boss fight even when the enemy is suffering a constant amount of damage each Round; said damage is a nice Anti-Frustration Feature that helps retain a sense of progress without imbalancing the fight.

Yes, Endgame. Remember this 9 rounds from now. Remember this and know that the poison slowly eating away at Ediliooon's carapace and SP allowed us to have a "challenging boss fight even when the enemy is suffering a constant amount of damage each Round"

Crumbling Poison iz Hakkzorz.

As is the fact that he can't remedy himself.

"So what are we waiting for?"

Me!

~Insectoid Arisotcrat

Edited March 15, 2013 by Dannylonglegs

[Flipz]

You're missing the point. We're not annoyed at the Quest. We're annoyed at this one situation where we're being left in the dark about the battle's mechanics. That's not what battles are/should be. Everything should be explained clearly so we can formulate a strategy around it, we shouldn't have to guess how a battle works, especially in such an insanely difficult battle. We're having trouble enough surviving when we do know what's going on.

Well, I am, anyway, I can't speak for anyone else.

Just my thoughts.

No, no, I understand you're annoyed at this particular spot in the Quest, and not the whole thing. But this is the way Zeph operates. Usually, players like you and me like the strategizing that Zeph's style requires, but I'm saying that, at this particular moment, his mechanical style (puzzles in battle) is in operation at a much higher level than normal, and at that high a level it's not very engaging for most of us. I probably should have made that clearer from the start.

And of course, it's only a minor thing, it's not really harming the Quest as a whole in any way!

Edited March 15, 2013 by Flipz

[Chromeknight]

I don't think we've ever had an orc, PC or NPC, who spoke a lot of a definite orcish language. I know we've taken a couple languages from Tolkien because of how well they're defined (Chromeknight uses Quenya, I know), but there's no real orcish language in Middle Earth, I believe. (they just use the Black Speech when not speaking Common Speech/Westron, right?)

I once used Klingon to render some orcish when Nerwen was first in the hall. But; too much work. As for Tolkien, yes, orc language is just corrupted forms of others' languages, much as the (Tolkien) orcs are corrupted elves.

[Masked Builder]

The payoff, of course, is great roleplaying opportunities, but if you're not really into those already a hardcore roleplayer and/or the situation isn't specifically prompting things for your character, then things can get awkward and/or patience-trying. It's a matter of different playstyles, and it really seems that this Quest has been really, really difficult for some players' playstyles. Zeph's tried his best to keep switching things up, but with a group this large it's just not possible to keep everyone engaged, and that's what's happening here; some players, like Pie and WBD, are thriving on the mechanical difficulties, while some, like you, CM, and Pandora, (and, I have to admit, me to an extent) are getting frustrated by them. Likewise, some players (Scorpiox, Legonater, WBD, and I) are thriving on the roleplaying options available here, while others (again, you, CM, and Pandora, though correct me if I've misread you) seem to be irritated by the roleplaying and still others (Professor Flitwick and Masked Builder) are just sort of fading into the background because the roleplaying choices here are not overly interesting to them. That's the true downside of a large party, even moreso than difficult battle calculations.

Yeah I've been hating how my roleplay has been dimishing in this quest. I think it's mostly because of my limited computer time. (Which I am now going to try to make the most of...)

[Zepher]

I understand the complaints. I'm not budging. I promise it will be consistent whenever this happens. Use this round to figure out how it works, and then EVERY OTHER ROUND, you will NOT BE IN THE DARK. Once you learn something, it will not change. Figuring out a mechanic may not be your cup of tea. But it is some people's. They will have fun this round, then you will have fun in following ones when you can strategize knowing how this particular scenario plays out. I will not comment on the mechanic again in thread or in the Quest thread. It's not changing.

I will, as always, publish my entire outline when we're done. Nothing is made up. Everything is pre-planned.

EDIT: Another busy night, but the round will be run at some point! So make you you have actions you're happy with. I'm also not trying to tick anyone off, but changing my plan for the battle now WOULD be unfair, and I have no intention of doing it. You can complain all you want (not that I view you as real complainers, I know we're all a big loving family and I do not mean that in a sarcastic way) but it's not changing, so deal.

Edited March 16, 2013 by Zepher

[The Legonater]

I don't think we've ever had an orc, PC or NPC, who spoke a lot of a definite orcish language. I know we've taken a couple languages from Tolkien because of how well they're defined (Chromeknight uses Quenya, I know), but there's no real orcish language in Middle Earth, I believe. (they just use the Black Speech when not speaking Common Speech/Westron, right?)

Not Orcish, but there was a time when I used Mando'a for ancient Duplovian. I gave up on that pretty early, though.

[UsernameMDM]

You know you want her dead!

Wren v1

[The Legonater]

It's pretty good, though I imagined her more like this:

[CorneliusMurdock]

I think orcs just can't speak exactly like humans. Do they speak their own language?

Well, Cronk may have suffered some head trauma in his past to explain how he talks as well. That's why he's so fond of helmets.

I think that any region in Heroica may have have developed it's own language just like in real life. Tolkien is a great start for fantasy concepts, but not everything has to be his way. I'm sure regions where Orcs live, like Goblonia, have their own cultures, languages and traditions just like any human territory would.

[CMP]

I've been drafting an orc-centric Quest and have a few words made up. I use Google Translate and stitch together botched words from different languages that apply to the context of the conversation.

Or if I'm lazy I just make it up.

Regional dialects also help for making separate languages of the same cultures canon, even if it is a bit of a stretch when they're entirely different.

[Zepher]

I am very sorry everyone. I'm just outrageously busy right now. The round will have to be run in about 12 hours from now. The quest might be a little touch and go until Sunday too, I have family visits to make and then a long long trek back to school. I always feel bad putting quests on pause, but I really just don't have time right now.