Heroica RPG General Discussion

[Chromeknight]

Right.

I think the artifacts have to be limited in both type and number. If you only limit someone to number, they could go around wearing four helmets, which would be rather ridiculous. I think it's a better idea to have set types of artifacts. Perhaps head, torso, legs, and arms. (Robes, Cloaks, and Armor would all fall under Torso)

Given that heroica:rpg is ostensibly a LEGO roleplaying game, perhaps we might tie artifacts back to actual lego elements.

Then the stackability of artifacts is given by the ability to physically model them sensibly.

eg. I could wear a quiver or armour, but not both at the same time. I couldn't wear a helmet and the dread hat at the same time.

I'm not suggesting that artifact owners have to go out and actually purchase the item-element, put it on their sig-fig and rephotograph. Just that the standard for artifact stacking will be minifg element based.

e.g.

Chunk of lucky table 1x6 tan tile, wood grain

Pongcanis tongue Popiscle though perhaps in trans-dark pink...

[Brickdoctor]

What about Quivers and Robes? A minifig can wear them both at the same time.

[JimBee]

I agree with all of this talk on limiting the number of artifacts a character can use at a time. Out of everyone's opinion, I think I agree with swils the most. I think two artifacts, regardless of what body part they go on, should be allotted. Right now I think Sandy has it so that it's limited to one per body part (hands, torso, head, etc.), but the most practical and least complicated way would be to limit the artifact count to two.

Just my two cents, I do think the other opinions are valid points as well.

[Masked Builder]

This one is for you Peppermint.

Mechanical Spider

Type: Mechanical

Level: 4

Health: 50/50

Special: Bite - Causes damage equal to the targets level.

Drops: Gear (WP:2) Suitable for Rouges and Rangers

[UsernameMDM]

I'd prefer just 2 as well.

What does the game define as an artifact?

[Zepher]

Yeah my other suggestion would be to give specific areas, much like Swils said. We'd just have to go back through and make sure that all our current items are labelled currently.

1x Head Gear

1x Torso

1x Arms/Hands

1x Legs/Feet

[Masked Builder]

Does any legs/feet gear exist?

[UsernameMDM]

Does any legs/feet gear exist?

Hoke has the Warrior's Treads (SP: 2, HP +1).

[Masked Builder]

Of course someone has something.

[Zepher]

Ooooooo I love that new picture Masked Builder!

ALSO: Not loving the pause in Sacred Sands, but hey, what can ya do. I'll take the time to plan my next Quest!

[Masked Builder]

Ooooooo I love that new picture Masked Builder!

The one with the Centaur? You guys did figure out the she is a young Centaur right?

[Chromeknight]

What about Quivers and Robes? A minifig can wear them both at the same time.

Since a minifig can wear a quiver and a robe at the same time (or armour and a robe)

going by the rule I proposed, a character could equip both.

I'm not dividing artifacts into 'types' and limiting to one of each, I'm suggesting a what-you-see-is-what-you-get common sense system.

[Tanma]

Right.

I think the artifacts have to be limited in both type and number. If you only limit someone to number, they could go around wearing four helmets, which would be rather ridiculous. I think it's a better idea to have set types of artifacts. Perhaps head, torso, legs, and arms. (Robes, Cloaks, and Armor would all fall under Torso)

Makes sense, but my Cloak of the Blue Assassin has a hood. So would it fill both head and torso slots?

[Bricksandparts]

Here are some ideas for Artifact equipment:

head:

Mask (head piece)

Helm/hat/hood

Torso:

wear (torso/arms)

gloves (hand pieces)

Legs:

pants (leg pieces)

boots (maybe) (extra pieces under feet)

Armour/cloak:

Shoulder cloak (shoulder pieces, leather/plastic)

capes/cloak

Armour plate

Leg cloak

How does this sound? I'll post some example pieces for each and some things that don't exactly work in a few minutes.

[UsernameMDM]

I'm not dividing artifacts into 'types' and limiting to one of each, I'm suggesting a what-you-see-is-what-you-get common sense system.

Some people don't have common sense and some will try to bend the rules when they can. That's why I strongly suggest a limited number.

[Bricksandparts]

Here are some ideas for Artifact equipment:

head:

Mask (head piece)

Helm/hat/hood

Problems:

where to put helm?

Torso:

wear (torso/arms)

gloves (hand pieces)

Legs:

pants (leg pieces)

boots (maybe) (extra pieces under feet)

Armour/cloak:

Shoulder cloak (shoulder pieces, only leather)

NOT

capes/cloak

Armour plate/back-pack/quiver/etc.

Leg cloak

Special cases:

In this example, this piece would be both a hat and amour plate.

Major problems:

If you use this head, you technically can't even have an Armour plate.

One of Sandy's items, not to Minfigure scale, cannot fit into any of this:

I'll update this list.

Edited November 19, 2011 by Bricksandparts

[Jebediahs]

Ooooooo I love that new picture Masked Builder!

Yes, I like the image as well. Cool fight and nice job on the centaur girl.

[swils]

*snip*

It's an interesting list, for sure, but I think its overly complicated for Heroica RPG, as Sandy has presented it to us (Please, correct me if I'm wrong, Sandy). And then there's the issue that was mentioned where people will try to bend the rules wherever they can. A character wearing a Ninja wrap could still fit a cape under it, it would just be a tight squeeze. And certainly, a mask-type minifigure head would fit underneath the wrap as well. So logically, you should be able to wear all three on your character, right? Similarly, while you may only be able to wear one hat, you could theoretically be wearing four necklaces/amulets at once and still be considered realistic... It gets far too nitpicky.

I really don't think it's a good idea to start giving artifacts multiple classifications. If it's *primarily* a head-piece, then it would fit the "Head" slot. If it's a cloak with a hood, then it fits the "Back" slot, and you can just imagine your character wears it with the hood down. If it's X it fits X slot, regardless of whether or not it *appears* to cover up Y slot as well. You get the picture.

If it is a truly super-powerful item and would be over the top alongside anything else, then give it an additional effect that says "May not be equipped with any other artifacts." Otherwise, use some common sense, both in equipping items, and in *designing* them. If you've got two artifact hats, then for all I care, wear 'em. It's your choice. Honestly, I don't think it will end up being that much of a broken mechanic. Of course, you could (and I'm sure would be encouraged to) act in a more realistic manner, and use only one of them at a time. But again, your artifacts, your choice.*1* On the other hand, if you're hosting a quest (and I'm looking down the road a ways here), and your entire party all has unique hats equipped, don't offer a hat as a reward.

*1* If I ever host, and I run into a player doing this, then be warned, there will likely be a completely random windstorm that blows through the area and tosses your 2nd hat somewhere far away. It won't be lost, but you'll have to go find it, or wait for it to be returned at the end of the quest. But hey, that's what you get for acting walking around with two hats on your head, looking like a fool. I mean, come on, that second one can't -possibly- be sitting very steadily... You've only yourself to blame!

Edit:

All of this, of course, is pure speculation and suggestion on my own part. It's ultimately up to you, Sandy, how to handle it, and I really don't mean to step on your toes by saying what I think is the right or wrong approach for this

Edited November 19, 2011 by swils

[Masked Builder]

Yes, I like the image as well. Cool fight and nice job on the centaur girl.

Thanks guys! I did get some inspiration from you for it.

Who wants more Centaurs from me?

[Brickdoctor]

Makes sense, but my Cloak of the Blue Assassin has a hood. So would it fill both head and torso slots?

In a normal RPG, I think you could fit a helmet or such under the hood, but in this game, I think yes, you wouldn't be able to wear anything else in head or torso areas. (though the system of determining how much you can wear has yet to be determined) I originally created the helmets, robes, and cloaks and submitted them to Sandy way back when Quest 4 was in the works as a way for other classes to have SP powers, but at a higher cost than a Knight's shield.

[Darth Nihilus]

Little.....tiny......question for the QMs out there. Can I create a new item, in a Quest that I host, that can be merged with a weapon at a shop within the Quest or at the Marketplace? I was thinking something along the lines of a Dino scale that can be merged with a weapon to cause an increase in the WP of said weapon. For instance:

Weapon WP before=3. COsts 50 G to merge. After merge weapon WP=4-7, depending on the level the beast that the scale came from was at.

Would this be acceptable?

[Zepher]

Look, if we want to do this right, we got to go back and classify, and from here on in classify each artifact we hand out. It's simple and requires a little work from past QMs, but I think it's a simple enough plan.

[CMP]

Look, if we want to do this right, we got to go back and classify, and from here on in classify each artifact we hand out. It's simple and requires a little work from past QMs, but I think it's a simple enough plan.

We could just use the one I have up in the Treasury. Fair enough so far, and it has all the artifacts already.

[Chromeknight]

In a normal RPG, I think you could fit a helmet or such under the hood, but in this game, I think yes, you wouldn't be able to wear anything else in head or torso areas. (though the system of determining how much you can wear has yet to be determined) I originally created the helmets, robes, and cloaks and submitted them to Sandy way back when Quest 4 was in the works as a way for other classes to have SP powers, but at a higher cost than a Knight's shield.

Yes. People may try and game the system. That will happen whatever system is chosen.

If people do, they will look a little ridiculous and ought be fair game for comments from other characters.

Yes. There is stuff like the amulet that has a picture out of scale and can't actually be equipped on a minifig. My feeling is those will be uncommon and not the case with most things.

Yes. There will be stuff that doesn't fit on particular characters, like Fishmen or highway Orges. I reckon that's a fair consequence of choosing to play such a characterful character and clever QMs will still be able to craft artifacts that fit onto those models. Or the artifact might not fit with your 'picture' of how you want your character to look. That generates a meaningful RPG choice. Looks or stats.

However in counter point to the above concessions.

The system I suggested is.

Simple: no item slots, no limits other than common sense, no trying stuff more information into signatures than is already there.

Stimulating: Anyone QM can come up with a shiny bit of kit with gee-whiz stats. What I have enjoyed so far (and given comments I've seen, others too) are the LEGO based pictures that go with the quests. Sure, this suggestion entails a little more work for QM masters, but I think it adds to the overall building (I use the word deliberately) of a shared world.

The system is also in keeping with Sandy's work so far. He didn't need to put in pictures for potions and remedies and so on, but he did. I think that everything wherever possible should be pictured. Pictured in LEGO. After all LEGO is what brought us here right?

[Bricksandparts]

Little.....tiny......question for the QMs out there. Can I create a new item, in a Quest that I host, that can be merged with a weapon at a shop within the Quest or at the Marketplace? I was thinking something along the lines of a Dino scale that can be merged with a weapon to cause an increase in the WP of said weapon. For instance:

Weapon WP before=3. COsts 50 G to merge. After merge weapon WP=4-7, depending on the level the beast that the scale came from was at.

Would this be acceptable?

I'm not a QM, but here's my advice. It would get complicated. I think It'd be better to award more scales for harder beasts, and the more scales you merge, the more powerful it is against certain enemies.

We could just use the one I have up in the Treasury. Fair enough so far, and it has all the artifacts already.

Not ALL of them...

Here's my list, it includes Quest items though, Which I consider Artifacts:

Currency:

Crystal Chalice - Worth 70 gold.

Crystal Ball - Worth 50 gold, except in magic shops where it’s worth 100 gold.

From quest 1:

Fang Dagger - WP: 4, suitable for mages and rogues

Dread Hat (magical artefact, lower level enemies will not directly attack the wearer)

From quest 2:

Fleuret (WP: 4, suitable to knights and rogues)

Shadeaux Shield (SP: 4, suitable to knights)

From quest 3:

Lullaby Wand (WP: 4, sleep-effect to physical attacks, suitable to mages)

Sandman’s Parasol (protects from sleep-effect)

From quest 4:

Magic Compass - Allows the hero to know the right direction.

Steel Axe - (WP: 5, suitable for Rarbarians)

Yew Longbow - (WP: 5, suitable for Rangers)

Steel Scythe - (WP: 5, suitable for Rogues)

Steel Broadsword - (WP: 5, suitable for Knights)

Glass Wand - (WP: 5, suitable for Mages)

Holy Staff - (WP: 5, suitable for Clerics)

Steel Shield - (SP: 4, suitable for Knights)

Steel Helmet - (SP: 2, suitable for Knights, Barbarians, and Rangers)

Pongcanis Club (WP: 5), suitable for Barbarians

Pongcanis Staff (WP: 5), suitable for Clerics

Pongcanis Sword (WP: 5), suitable for Knights

Pongcanis Shield (SP: 3), suitable for Knights

Pongcanis Mage's Staff (WP: 5), suitable for Mages

Pongcanis Crossbow (WP: 5), suitable for Rangers

Pongcanis Dagger (WP: 5), suitable for Rogues

Cloak of the Blue Assassin (SP: 1, suitable for Rogues) - Grants the ability to dodge attacks faster, providing a small amount of protection against attack.

Robe of Magi (SP: 1, suitable for Mages and Clerics) - Magically provides a small amount of protection against attack.

Robe of Thaumaturges (suitable for Clerics) - Grants the ability to absorb an attack should the wearer choose to do so, expending his or her Ether by the amount of Damage divided by 3.

Cloak of the Elven Spy (suitable for Rogues) - Grants the ability to spy on one's enemies, allowing the wearer to view the enemies' stats before deciding whether or not to attack, if such a choice presents itself.

Horse - Halves the travel time for up to two party members.

Robe of the Pongcanis Champion (suitable for Barbarians and Mages) - Woven for the greatest of Pongcanae warriors, increases Power by 1 when in the Front Row and provides an SP of 1 when in the Back Row.

Chunk of Lucky Table - (suitable for Thormanil Nihai) This item cannot be sold or traded to another hero or NPC. Use it to create a portion of your weapon, and all your Misses will instead deal Damage equal to your WP. (the same way a Ranger's Aim works) However, doing so will reduce your weapon's WP to 1.

Robe of Spell Resistance - (suitable for Clerics and Mages) Halves all Damage taken by the wearer from magic-based attacks. (whether or not an attack is magical is up to the QM, but it shouldn't be too hard to figure out)

From quest 5:

Ancient Longsword of Flame (WP:11) (Suitable for knights and rogues)

Great Sword of Darkness (WP: 7) (Suitable for knights and barbarians)

Dagger (WP: 4) Suitable for Mages and Rogues.

Cultist Hat- Allows regular attacks to do damage to the undead.

Battle Ax (WP: 8)

Fire Staff (WP: 9) (Suitable for Mages and Clerics)

Ancient Throwing Dagger (WP: 7) (Suitable for Rangers and Rogues)

Vintul, the Greatsword of Wind. (WP: 8) (Suitable for Knights and Barbarians)

From quest 6:

Heavy Metal Rod - WP: 5, suitable for clerics and mages.

Loaded Die - Permanent lucky-effect to the owner, allowing them to roll the battle die twice and get the better result of the two.

From quest 7:

Mockthril Club (WP: 4, suitable for barbarians)

Great Sword (WP: 5, suitable for barbarians and knights)

Mockthril Longsword (WP: 4, suitable for knights and rogues)

Bronze Longsword (WP: 3, suitable for knights and rogues)

Mockthril Crossbow (WP: 4, suitable for rangers)

Shuriken (WP: 3, suitable for rogues and rangers)

Shuriken of Mercutio (WP: 5, suitable for rouges and rangers)

Sword of Power (WP: 6, suitable for barbarians, knights, and rogues)

Hammer of Gods (WP: 4, suitable for Barbarians)

Zoot’s Play Thing

From quest 8: (so far)

Water Canteens

Signet ring

Bone Dagger (WP: 3) (Suitable for Mages)

From quest 9: (so far)

Double Chain Whip (WP: 5 Suitable for Rogues)

Robe of Magi (SP: 1, suitable for Mages and Clerics) - Magically provides a small amount of protection against attack.

From quest 10:

Red Globe - A polished red orb with a hole (quest item)

Half of a Brown Globe - a fractured half of a polished orb with some sort of a map carved on the surface (quest item)

Black Globe - A dark, polished orb that feels cold to touch (quest item).

Bottle of Glue - used for sticking two things together.

Half of a Grey Globe - a broken half of a grey orb that has a map carved on the surface. (quest item)

Golden Globe - a shiny orb covered with leaf gold (quest item)

Meteor Blade - WP: 8, light-elemental, suitable to barbarians and knights

Pulsar Sceptre (WP:10, healing effect, suitable for mages and clerics)

Wishing Star (WP:10, retrievable, suitable for rangers and rogues)

Thorny Diadem - a hair ornament that gives +3 to power, but -6 to maximum health

Snake Eye Charm - an accessory that protects from petrified-effect

From quest 12: (so far)

Piece of Oatmeal Cookie Pie (quest item) – Restores target NPC to GOOD condition. Expires upon quest completion.

Ladle of Goblin Gumbo - Provides the haste effect for one battle. Expires at the end of quest.

Quickdraw Quiver - (Permanent Haste effect, suitable for Rangers)

Jester Hat {quest item} - Improves target NPC's Condition level.

Frying Pan (WP: 1, +1 Health; suitable for all classes) - Must be equipped as primary weapon for health boost.

Training Spear (WP: 2, suitable for barbarians) - A weapon used for sparring.

Training Morning Star (WP: 2, suitable for clerics and knights) - A weapon used for sparring.