Heroica RPG General Discussion

[Chromeknight]

I'm not a QM, but here's my advice. It would get complicated. I think It'd be better to award more scales for harder beasts, and the more scales you merge, the more powerful it is against certain enemies.

My question is, how would you picture them in LEGO?

Look at the list B&P just posted.

Which items stand out? The ones with pictures.

Which quests consistently do that? The ones Sandy runs.

How do you quest like Sandy? (or to rephrase the question, propose quests Sandy will be keen to see?) Pictures for items.

[Darth Nihilus]

I'm not a QM, but here's my advice. It would get complicated. I think It'd be better to award more scales for harder beasts, and the more scales you merge, the more powerful it is against certain enemies.

Yes, but then it would be up to the Party Leader who gets more scales, and that could get even more confusing. I think tha the best solution would be to have the scale be something like this:

Scale

(WP:_, suitible for all classes, can be merged with weapon for increase in weapon's WP equal to the Scale's WP.)

Would that work? I'm really puzzling over this one, as I really want to host a Quest, but I need to figure out all the details before I begin.

[CMP]

Bricks, I have all of those but the ones in currently running quests listed, and most of those aren't Artifacts. I think those were specified as the objects with special effects in the first post of this thread.

[Bricksandparts]

Yes, but then it would be up to the Party Leader who gets more scales, and that could get even more confusing. I think tha the best solution would be to have the scale be something like this:

Scale

(WP:_, suitible for all classes, can be merged with weapon for increase in weapon's WP equal to the Scale's WP.)

Would that work? I'm really puzzling over this one, as I really want to host a Quest, but I need to figure out all the details before I begin.

Are you suggesting making an item like this? This is my equipped item for now by the way.

Meteor Blade (SCP(scale power, not SP, because that is shield power):12) (WP:8)(Light Elemental) which means I have 4 scales+8 power=12 SCP? I guess this would work, like Power against beasts is 12, but others is 8? I guess it's an Ok idea.

Here's a picture I just made that you could use:

And yes, It's an actual LEGO piece. On Bricklink: http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItemPic.asp?P=89079

[UsernameMDM]

I am 100% for keeping this game SIMPLE.

Why mess with a good thing?

[Bricksandparts]

"I'm not a QM, but here's my advice. It would get complicated. I think It'd be better to award more scales for harder beasts, and the more scales you merge, the more powerful it is against certain enemies."

My question is, how would you picture them in LEGO?

Look at the list B&P just posted.

Which items stand out? The ones with pictures.

Which quests consistently do that? The ones Sandy runs.

How do you quest like Sandy? (or to rephrase the question, propose quests Sandy will be keen to see?) Pictures for items.

How does this have to do with the first quote? Just wondering...

[CMP]

I am 100% for keeping this game SIMPLE.

Why mess with a good thing?

Agreed. I classed artifacts for simplicity. I think it's easy enough for people to use their common sense here.

[UsernameMDM]

If we do wind up with categories, I'd suggest these with limit to 1 per slot:

Head (helms, hoods, hats, etc)

Body (capes, cloaks, quivers, etc)

Legs (boots, etc)

Accessory (charms, jewelry, bracers, etc)

It would be up to the QM to categorize the artifacts with common sense.

[Bricksandparts]

Well, If this was a programmed game, the computers would do all the work for us. ...But...that's not how this game is...

Edit: Never mind. It'll take to long to crop all the images and photo-shop a completely fake image, like my Heroica avatar:

this is completely fake, I cut up a bunch of images, and put them together.

Edited November 19, 2011 by Bricksandparts

[swils]

Yes. People may try and game the system. That will happen whatever system is chosen.

If people do, they will look a little ridiculous and ought be fair game for comments from other characters.

Yes. There is stuff like the amulet that has a picture out of scale and can't actually be equipped on a minifig. My feeling is those will be uncommon and not the case with most things.

Yes. There will be stuff that doesn't fit on particular characters, like Fishmen or highway Orges. I reckon that's a fair consequence of choosing to play such a characterful character and clever QMs will still be able to craft artifacts that fit onto those models. Or the artifact might not fit with your 'picture' of how you want your character to look. That generates a meaningful RPG choice. Looks or stats.

However in counter point to the above concessions.

The system I suggested is.

Simple: no item slots, no limits other than common sense, no trying stuff more information into signatures than is already there.

Stimulating: Anyone QM can come up with a shiny bit of kit with gee-whiz stats. What I have enjoyed so far (and given comments I've seen, others too) are the LEGO based pictures that go with the quests. Sure, this suggestion entails a little more work for QM masters, but I think it adds to the overall building (I use the word deliberately) of a shared world.

The system is also in keeping with Sandy's work so far. He didn't need to put in pictures for potions and remedies and so on, but he did. I think that everything wherever possible should be pictured. Pictured in LEGO. After all LEGO is what brought us here right?

In regard to items that don't fit on certain characters, and the choice of "form or function", I wholeheartedly disagree. In lots of modern, successful MMORPGs, most armor and items in general are generic. They will scale to fit the user. It helps to keep the game accessible. In a pen and paper setting, in a tight-knit circle, such limitations are more appropriate. Let's say that the orc in your party finds a bonemail chainskirt of humanslaying. When he later finds a dragonbone plateskirt of human genociding, it is highly unlikely that the human in your group is going to want that humanslaying piece, due in large part to the alignment of that character. Heroica doesn't go that deep. When Player A is done with Item 1, it would be nice if he/she was able to easily pass it on to Player B, so that they might use it. If Player 2 were incapable of equipping it for one cosmetic reason or another, sure, there could be a lengthy and expensive modification process, but why bother? Why not just let them use it? Suspension of Disbelief

Also, I wholeheartedly agree--I *love* when the QMs include actual pictures of the items they are awarding. It helps to keep you in the LEGO mindset. But as was mentioned before, I don't think that should mean the players should have to equip it to their character in order to be considered as "wearing" it. The QM presented their interpretation of the item. The Player listed it under his equipment. At the conclusion of the quest, the item, its description, and its picture will be archived in CallMePie's thread on that matter. If the player wants to go the extra mile and acquire the item/pieces of the item, and replicate as best they can on their figure and rephotograph it, that's great! I encourage that and think the involvement in the game is wonderful. But I don't think that point has any real relevance to the matter of limitations on equipment. It is the responsibility of the QMs to provide details, plotline or otherwise (pictures, in this case) that keep people interested in the quest. But the players earned their reward. Why limit them just because the actual amulet is made of an oversized windscreen and chain, rather than just recognize that the pictured item is a scaled up version?

[Bricksandparts]

In regard to items that don't fit on certain characters, and the choice of "form or function", I wholeheartedly disagree. In lots of modern, successful MMORPGs, most armor and items in general are generic. They will scale to fit the user. It helps to keep the game accessible. In a pen and paper setting, in a tight-knit circle, such limitations are more appropriate. Let's say that the orc in your party finds a bonemail chainskirt of humanslaying. When he later finds a dragonbone plateskirt of human genociding, it is highly unlikely that the human in your group is going to want that humanslaying piece, due in large part to the alignment of that character. Heroica doesn't go that deep. When Player A is done with Item 1, it would be nice if he/she was able to easily pass it on to Player B, so that they might use it. If Player 2 were incapable of equipping it for one cosmetic reason or another, sure, there could be a lengthy and expensive modification process, but why bother? Why not just let them use it? Suspension of Disbelief

Also, I wholeheartedly agree--I *love* when the QMs include actual pictures of the items they are awarding. It helps to keep you in the LEGO mindset. But as was mentioned before, I don't think that should mean the players should have to equip it to their character in order to be considered as "wearing" it. The QM presented their interpretation of the item. The Player listed it under his equipment. At the conclusion of the quest, the item, its description, and its picture will be archived in CallMePie's thread on that matter. If the player wants to go the extra mile and acquire the item/pieces of the item, and replicate as best they can on their figure and rephotograph it, that's great! I encourage that and think the involvement in the game is wonderful. But I don't think that point has any real relevance to the matter of limitations on equipment. It is the responsibility of the QMs to provide details, plotline or otherwise (pictures, in this case) that keep people interested in the quest. But the players earned their reward. Why limit them just because the actual amulet is made of an oversized windscreen and chain, rather than just recognize that the pictured item is a scaled up version?

I very much agree with you. And it is very nice when there are pictures, it makes it not seem like the old computer game Adventure, just a text based game.

[Brickdoctor]

I do agree that images make items better. Next time I do a Quest, I'll be better prepared to do it.

[Chromeknight]

How does this have to do with the first quote? Just wondering...

I just replied to last post in thread (at the time) in order to reference conversation as a whole rather than scrolling back and quoting specific posts. I'm sorry you were confused.

[Bricksandparts]

I just replied to last post in thread (at the time) in order to reference conversation as a whole rather than scrolling back and quoting specific posts. I'm sorry you were confused.

It's Ok.

[CorneliusMurdock]

I'm of the opinion that things should be kept as simple as possible. I'd say limiting everyone to two artifacts is plenty. That's already enough for most QMs to worry about. you figure a party with six characters each with two artifacts makes 12 different effects that the QM has to take into account when tallying damage. And that doesn't include weapons or shields. The more artifacts we're allowed, the harder it will be on the QMs in the long run.

I'm all for loot, but I think it needs to be earned and I think that a hero that carries 50 items into battle is silly. Things like the crystal ball or items that are automatically sold for gold at the end of quests should be handed out more frequently than special items that boost stats. Special items should be rare. That's what makes them special.

As for what a minifig can wear, that argument just gets silly. I don't think we should argue about what a minifig could or could not wear all at the same time. Power gamers make the game itself less fun and it;s the type of arguments that those types of players have. I also don't think the character portraits are supposed to be factual representations of the equipment they have. They are fun visualizations of our characters. Arguing this way also puts limits on non-traditional minifig characters. I don't think Skrall or Bob the house elf should be penalized for their players thinking outside the box when creating them. Artifacts are magic. They're one size fits all.

[Chromeknight]

edited post to remove my addition to argument.

ceding floor to wise Cornelius.

Edited November 19, 2011 by Chromeknight

[Waterbrick Down]

I'm of the opinion that things should be kept as simple as possible. I'd say limiting everyone to two artifacts is plenty. That's already enough for most QMs to worry about. you figure a party with six characters each with two artifacts makes 12 different effects that the QM has to take into account when tallying damage. And that doesn't include weapons or shields. The more artifacts we're allowed, the harder it will be on the QMs in the long run.

I'm all for loot, but I think it needs to be earned and I think that a hero that carries 50 items into battle is silly. Things like the crystal ball or items that are automatically sold for gold at the end of quests should be handed out more frequently than special items that boost stats. Special items should be rare. That's what makes them special.

As for what a minifig can wear, that argument just gets silly. I don't think we should argue about what a minifig could or could not wear all at the same time. Power gamers make the game itself less fun and it;s the type of arguments that those types of players have. I also don't think the character portraits are supposed to be factual representations of the equipment they have. They are fun visualizations of our characters. Arguing this way also puts limits on non-traditional minifig characters. I don't think Skrall or Bob the house elf should be penalized for their players thinking outside the box when creating them. Artifacts are magic. They're one size fits all.

Couldn't have put it better myself. I second the motion.

[swils]

I'm of the opinion that things should be kept as simple as possible. I'd say limiting everyone to two artifacts is plenty. That's already enough for most QMs to worry about. you figure a party with six characters each with two artifacts makes 12 different effects that the QM has to take into account when tallying damage. And that doesn't include weapons or shields. The more artifacts we're allowed, the harder it will be on the QMs in the long run.

I'm all for loot, but I think it needs to be earned and I think that a hero that carries 50 items into battle is silly. Things like the crystal ball or items that are automatically sold for gold at the end of quests should be handed out more frequently than special items that boost stats. Special items should be rare. That's what makes them special.

As for what a minifig can wear, that argument just gets silly. I don't think we should argue about what a minifig could or could not wear all at the same time. Power gamers make the game itself less fun and it;s the type of arguments that those types of players have. I also don't think the character portraits are supposed to be factual representations of the equipment they have. They are fun visualizations of our characters. Arguing this way also puts limits on non-traditional minifig characters. I don't think Skrall or Bob the house elf should be penalized for their players thinking outside the box when creating them. Artifacts are magic. They're one size fits all.

Dangit, Cornelius, way to take everything I was trying to say and put it in a condensed, well-summated, and easy to understand format. How dare you!

[Fred Daniel Yam]

I made this little layout on photoshop:

The Helmet and the Shield only add SP or HP, the Sword is pretty much just any weapon, the cape could be special but mainly adds SP. The footwear adds SP or/and HP like the Warrior's Treads. The quiver is special. This is basically what I would follow if I hosted a quest.

Edited November 19, 2011 by volcanicpanik

[Zepher]

So after like two pages of discussion we're just going back to what I suggested when I brought up the topic... Thanks for being sensible Cornelius, I'm afraid even I got carried away in the conversation. I'm with Corny too. -able both in and out of game.

[legobodgers]

I am sorry if I missed it but I was wondering how Knifk has a WP:8 weapon?

[Sandy]

Great conversation here, guys! Too bad it always happens when I'm asleep.

I see that the matter of artifacts is bothering people, so let's make a rule out of it:

EACH PLAYER IS ONLY ABLE TO EQUIP TWO ARTIFACTS AT A TIME, AND THOSE TWO ARTIFACTS CANNOT BE OF THE SAME TYPE.

~ A player can carry more than two artifacts, but the QM will only count the first two listed in the inventory as equipped.

~ Artifacts are equipment that are not weapons, shields, gems, scrolls, consumable, tools, treasures or quest-related items.

~ The types of artifacts are headwear, bodywear, capes, handwear, footwear and accessories, as listed in CallMePie's Treasury.

I hope everyone is satisfied with this solution. I've updated the rules and the FAQ accordingly.

[swils]

Thanks for the executive ruling, Sandy

[UsernameMDM]

Thanks Sandy!

[Rumble Strike]

I am sorry if I missed it but I was wondering how Knifk has a WP:8 weapon?

Oops, no idea how that happened. It should be WP:3, I will amend. Trust me I would have spotted it once there was another battle.