Heroica RPG - Quest Masters' Lounge

[Kintobor]

Quest #134 Analysis

First off, it's good to see that you're okay, Endgame. I got worried at the end of Eternal Reaper (another quest I need to talk about. Gosh, there's a lot of those... )

Overall, the quest was pretty fun. I think you maybe had a few missteps story wise, but the battles did all flow together nicely and they felt as though they fitted within the narrative. The characters were alright. The head cultist was the standout human character, but I'll get to my favourite aspect of this quest in a minute. The plot was a little all over the place, but it was followable and I got what you were trying to do with Sylvania's Thorn and the encounters. You were showing off the destructive nature of whatever fell from the sky, and also cluing us in that it probably wasn't a meteorite. Perhaps I still just hold The Syndicate on such a high pedestal as being my favourite quest of yours. Still, plot was wonky, but overall fine.

Loot was very good. The lack of big drops was okay in my eyes, since those arefacts you dropped at the end of the quest were both balanced, and extremely useful, and well themed to boot. Big thumbs up for the loot.

Battle wise, I enjoyed the fights, but then again your whole staple has been around challenging fights. I can't fault the first two fights in any real way. They were challenging, and I like that in a battle.

Lethauros was a nice challenge, but he wasn't stupidly insanely difficult neither. He's really one of the better boss fights I've been through in awhile.

Speaking of Lethauros. I dug Lethauros a lot, mainly because you got the first thing you need to get right when dealing with dragons: they're freaking dragons! These creatures can tear apart entire continents should they so desire. They deserve respect and fear. Maybe it's my D&D way of looking at things, but I prefer my dragons to be both a scary and awe-inspiring encounter. I got both of that with Lethauros. Perhaps it's because I portrayed Annienal in a way that brought that out, but I really enjoyed this character.

I've quested with all of you except Throlar and Sylph, and I enjoyed both. I feel Throlar and Annie didn't get along at all, seeing how Throlar doesn't really deal with anyone's nonsense, while Annienal is a lot more patient, but not as quick to get into a fight and would prefer to talk her enemies down.

I also rather enjoyed Sylph. This is the first time I believe any of my characters has interacted with him, or the first time I as a player have dealt with the character, so it was fun going in somewhat blind to this curious druid's character. I liked his devotion to Sylvania a lot. I think some of his and Vind's talk of their gods is rubbing off on Annienal... but not exactly in the same way as they're expecting. Trust me, I've got some cool ideas for Annienal after this quest.

I always like Warlen's character, and it's nice to see a relatively cheeky character get emotional. It's a nice change of pace, and it wasn't overdone, which is good. Not much to say because most of the stuff I've said about Warlen I've already said and most of it's positive.

I love Vind. In all actuality, Vind and Sylph are the two characters who got me to make a Dragonborn character for Dungeons and Dragons, whose background revolves around devotion to a god. I've never played a character like that, and I thought it'd be neat to try, so kudos to you two. Vind really feels like the kind of character who's religious and whose religion has shaped his world view, and I'm glad we have some. Religion in RPGs is a hard thing to pull off, and you've done it really well. I've been contemplating throwing in some worshippers of The Wanderer in a quest of mine, actually, so I hope you're there when it happens.

I think that's all I wanted to say. It was a good, solid quest, and really, I'm glad your back, Endgame! Thanks for the fun time!

[Zepher]

Quest 127

I'll say it again. Phew. Tough quest for me over-all, not because of any one thing but lots of small things, many of which I knew about going in. So thanks for sticking with me. I was doing a semester abroad, and knew there'd simply be some times when life experience and course work took over my time, and they did indeed, and I knew too that I'd always feel guilty and stressed because I knew you guys deserved an update. So yes, this quest ran about a week or two (or maybe even three) extra, I would say, and I think it felt it too - but I also wanted to host it, and am over-all glad I did. Sometimes when I say a quest was tough it means I had a bad time, but 127 was over-all a lot of fun for me. It had ups and downs like any quest, but it was good over-all.

So, on to the quest - I'll just sort of do story and mechanics as we roll through.

The opening was good for me, I felt, and I was happy with nearly all of it. The introduction of Oko and Yu Shu felt strong and characters clearly felt strongly towards them one way or another. I'm sorry that Kiray got so taken in with Oko, but I think it was a great character beat, and I hope we see that in the future. Monk and Grimwald bonded well over Avery the Abomination as well, and I was sad to see that point dropped as a form of conflict/friendship for them. Its always nice to see Nerwen and Pretzel as well, as they're both old and set in their ways (even if Nerwen's "way" involves lots of changing, which I also really like) which is a strong character trait for both of them and brings out both good and bad. They have a real sense of history too. Grimwald, I wish you had leaned more into knowing the Order Imperial. Early on it became clear that Nerwen was going to have a lot of connections in this quest, but if you'd worked up your opinion of the Order Imperial from day one (if I recall, your last encounter with them showed them at their worse and Pala's showed them at their best - THAT right there would be a cool dynamic) I think we could have seen more from Grimwald.

And that gets us down to the docks, basically. We meet AVery - already talked about how I liked Pretzel and Grimwald on her, and as I said before this is when I realized Nerwen would have a lot of old faces in this quest. There was no confrontation between the Undead and her, which I think fit both the characters well. Pala - a little note while on the boat - you were involved with all the conversations! I know this can be fun, but it made it hard for me to place Pretzel specially, and made it so that Pretzel knew all the NPCs, whereas I always think it's more interesting if each PC finds one or two NPCs they know well, makes for more of a tangled web of devotions and understandings. But, everyone can play the game their way, just my opinion! I like that Oko and Grimwald became friends as well. I wasn't even trying that hard, and all the PCs seemed to like him.

The sea battle - needed for two reasons. 1) Needed a battle at some point in the early quest. 2) If we never saw Oko fight at your side, he'd never have been considered a friendly NPC. His betrayal would mean nothing. I feel it worked well on both these counts. It also helped me learn about balancing this party.

Then we meet the Golden Crusade. It also had the intended effect. Instant mistrust, and a sort of divide in the camp, especially with Nerwen recognizing Gocklo - these are the sort of things you can't plan, but great role play allow for them. Great to have the "hang over" of previous quests that way. I've been struggling a long time in my stories to reveal who the Golden Crusade are… they've been around for five or six quests at this point! And then finally I thought about it and realized that… well, Deborah would just tell the heroes. That simple! It was a great moment of me looking at my characters and seeing that I was making it complicated, and not them. (I also liked Pretzel mistaking Gocklo for Watsup. Nice subtle racism ). The night was spent trying to suss out different alliances, and supplies were given to Oko, which I just had to laugh at.

Inside, we get marched around. We meet Samuel, he and Nerwen and Yu Shu all have their moments. Pretzel fails to recognize Abel at a good rate. I was hoping they'd have a better chance to interact. Ah well. Then the break out battle, which I was happy with over all. Took a while, but not absurdly long, and titled in the favor of the heroes as soon as they started to recover their things. The party splits, and like i said in our PM, I would have been happy to see any combination. Love seeing Pretzel trying to manipulate Gocklo and Marcellus into killing each other. Real fun fuel for all three characters.

And then to the Bella battle. Ugh. What a toughy. That was on me. Should have made it shorter and sweeter. You did use a bit of a wimpy strategy with the bones, BUT it was a totally valid one and a tough battle to boot. I again feel it's on me, and my apologies. I should have thrown the "perma-burning" and "perma-bleeding" in earlier in the quest, and then each battle could be shorter but it could still feel like a race. Totally my fault. If you know the source material Yu Shu's name is taken from, you probably could have guessed someone would be poisoned by a coward. Originally, Oko was supposed to poison her with his blade, but the more I wrote him the more I realized he would NEVER do that. So I made Bella do it instead. Difference in cultures. I don't think Oko would ever disrespect his sister or himself that way, whereas Bella probably just saw it as a tactical choice. I think it was straight up awesome that Pretzel took all the poison. I don't really know if it was the best strategical choice (though I also don't know if it was a bad one, I genuinely can't tell what would have been smarter) but I still think it was a superb character moment - brought on not by heroism but by pragmatism, which is so incredibly Pretzel. I like too that one could mistake the two, but Pretzel even clarified.

Love that Kiray is allergic to cat fur. :thumbup: The Ser Abel encounter was totally unplanned out - he could have died, come with you, fought and then come with you, been taken prisoner (that was my original plan with him) etc. It really all depended on how you acted. I like to honor diplomacy… and did, later in the battle, but many of the things you said to him right beforehand were not the right things to say, diplomacy or not. Regardless, you figured it out eventually, and probably looking back saved Yu Shu's life with that bit of peace - she was running pretty low on that final battle, if the Abel battle had dragged on, who knows how it would have gone. I also have to absolutely commend Pala for being brave enough to stand down. It felt like a real moment and a real gamble both in and out of character - he didn't REALLY know what was going to happen.

And… that's all the time I have this morning, embarrassingly. I will complete my notes on the side quest and then the finale bit of the quest later this evening, hopefully. Maybe it will be more readable in two chunks anyway.

[Palathadric]

First off, I'd like to say thank you for hosting and apologies for not responding sooner. It completely slipped my mind.

Monk and Grimwald bonded well over Avery the Abomination as well, and I was sad to see that point dropped as a form of conflict/friendship for them.

A problem for me is that once we got into the fighting it's difficult for me to concentrate on my roleplaying and I tend to forget about a lot of it. Also, I think we talked about Avery at night before we were captured, so it didn't really seem to make any sense to talk any more after. I could be wrong on this score. More likely, I just sort of forgot about it or Pretzel did.

Pala - a little note while on the boat - you were involved with all the conversations! I know this can be fun, but it made it hard for me to place Pretzel specially, and made it so that Pretzel knew all the NPCs, whereas I always think it's more interesting if each PC finds one or two NPCs they know well, makes for more of a tangled web of devotions and understandings. But, everyone can play the game their way, just my opinion! I like that Oko and Grimwald became friends as well. I wasn't even trying that hard, and all the PCs seemed to like him.

Oh, really? I didn't notice. I must have thought it was some kind of group discussion. I will be more watchful of this in the future. As far as Oko was concerned, I think he didn't seem as fangled as Yu Shu who really appeared bloodthirsty or something and too modern for Pretzel. Why, she was the one who took the greeny (I suppose he was just there for Oko's benefit?). Pretzel certainly fit closer to Oko than his sister.

Pretzel fails to recognize Abel at a good rate. I was hoping they'd have a better chance to interact. Ah well. Then the break out battle, which I was happy with over all. Took a while, but not absurdly long, and titled in the favor of the heroes as soon as they started to recover their things. The party splits, and like i said in our PM, I would have been happy to see any combination. Love seeing Pretzel trying to manipulate Gocklo and Marcellus into killing each other. Real fun fuel for all three characters.

Yeah sorry about that. I could only get online shortly at first and then by the time I finally replied when I had more time, you had posted while I was typing. That was a little disappointing, though I think it may have made our remeeting Abel better.

Flipz had a plan for me to give the Soul Link Chain to share between Marcellus and Gocklo. That would have been hilarious! I almost found it odd that Pretzel sided with Gocklo more than Marcellus, but I suppose Marcellus was trying to rescue a witch and Gocklo kill it.

And then to the Bella battle. Ugh. What a toughy. That was on me. Should have made it shorter and sweeter. You did use a bit of a wimpy strategy with the bones, BUT it was a totally valid one and a tough battle to boot. I again feel it's on me, and my apologies. I should have thrown the "perma-burning" and "perma-bleeding" in earlier in the quest, and then each battle could be shorter but it could still feel like a race.

Yeah, I felt especially bad for KotZ because due to the nature of the battle, it was very difficult for me to come up with a battle order without knowing who Kiray would strike. I more or less dictated all actions, which I think was necessary to a certain extent, but I imagine it can't have been too much fun for KotZ. Again, I have a hard time doing serious roleplaying in battles like that and when I do come out, it takes me a long time to "get back into" roleplaying mode. i just hope I wasn't a drag.

I think it was straight up awesome that Pretzel took all the poison. I don't really know if it was the best strategical choice (though I also don't know if it was a bad one, I genuinely can't tell what would have been smarter) but I still think it was a superb character moment - brought on not by heroism but by pragmatism, which is so incredibly Pretzel. I like too that one could mistake the two, but Pretzel even clarified.

It just made a lot of sense to both me and Pretzel. I think Pretzel somehow felt guilty about his judgement on Oko, so he felt like he should pay some kind of penance. He certainly thought that he could be the only one to step out.

The Ser Abel encounter was totally unplanned out - he could have died, come with you, fought and then come with you, been taken prisoner (that was my original plan with him) etc. It really all depended on how you acted. I like to honor diplomacy… and did, later in the battle, but many of the things you said to him right beforehand were not the right things to say, diplomacy or not. Regardless, you figured it out eventually, and probably looking back saved Yu Shu's life with that bit of peace - she was running pretty low on that final battle, if the Abel battle had dragged on, who knows how it would have gone. I also have to absolutely commend Pala for being brave enough to stand down. It felt like a real moment and a real gamble both in and out of character - he didn't REALLY know what was going to happen.

Yeah, I think you handled that part really well. You did indicate that we could talk him out of attacking, but you didn't overly stress that we should. I certainly am glad that we did, because I love Abel and so does Pretzel. In truth, Pretzel would probably have been more loyal to the Order Imperial than the Paladins and I seriously contemplated switching sides at points, but there are a few things that prevented me.

For one, I just don't feel comfortable turning my back on other heroes, especially when either side could be wrong. Pretzel, also, being a long-time hero from even before, is fiercely loyal to Heroica. He's not one to abandon his "calling" unless he realizes that the veterans have been duped. Also, Pretzel had a party who he liked all around, this discouraged joining with the Imperials. Furthermore, he quickly learned that Abel was just about the only Imperial that he liked, so he was certainly glad to "rescue" him.

Overall, the roleplaying aspects of this quest were very good. Some of the battles, especially, where tedious, but there was some good loot to go along with it.

I've got more to say, but this is all the comes to mind at Present. Thanks again for hosting us!

[KotZ]

Adding on to this, thank you, Zepher, for a great quest. It was a lot of fun. Not sure if there's anything else I can add in regards to comments. The loot was amazing and I loved the interactions with the NPCs. They were all really well thought out and fun to talk to. Simon. Wow, poor Simon. Bella, not so much.

My one gripe really is the battles. A but too long but they were very interesting.

Good job overall though!

[Asphalt]

OK Qm's I have a player who has been inactive for 10 days with no word. Any suggestions?

[Kintobor]

OK Qm's I have a player who has been inactive for 10 days with no word. Any suggestions?

You have two options.

1. Boot him. You're down a PC, but it's a clear and obvious notion to other QMs to avoid this player in the future.

2. Mark him as Inactive, and allow another PC to dictate their actions in battle. I've done this before, and it worked rather well. The party still has their member, that PC simply doesn't receive their loot, or reward.

EDIT: Seeing how he was last online today (I assume you're talking about Rconn0?), it'd be wise to send him a PM, but mark him as Inactive for the time being.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Kintobor

[samurai-turtle]

OK Qm's I have a player who has been inactive for 10 days with no word. Any suggestions?

I know I am not a "QM" but I would give them a warning by PM and in the quest thread.

[Sandy]

OK Qm's I have a player who has been inactive for 10 days with no word. Any suggestions?

Send him a PM, and if he doesn't respond in a timely manner, do what Kintobor suggested.

It can't be addressed enough that players should only sign-up for quests if they know they have the time/interest to play. Otherwise you are just wasting everyone's time.

[samurai-turtle]

EDIT: Seeing how he was last online today (I assume you're talking about Rconn0?), it'd be wise to send him a PM, but mark him as Inactive for the time being.

No, he is talking about "Cryos".

[Chromeknight]

Ok.

Sorry for the delay.

I wanted to reread the whole quest and then was trying to find an easy way to post the side quest (there isn't one from a mobile device and I won't have access to a laptop for a little while yet).

First, again, Zeph, thanks! This was the third quest with you out of my last four. You've hosted Nerwen more than any other QM. I know what to expect. Agendas, betrayals, moral ambiguity and being a bit player in larger stories.

Zeph's strength is his NPCs, particularly the allied party NPCs. They always have real motivations of their own and are mostly well formed characters in their own right. This makes returning play fun as relationships and friendships develop. Having had so much (recent) history, it did feel a little like the Nerwen show at times. She's naturally a talkative character and when she knows an NPC the others don't it's a natural thing to take the conversational lead.

I'll talk more about the characters, but first a quick comment. After rereading, I think I split the party wrong. Of course it seems easier with the benefit of hindsight, but Pretzel rescuing the witch? Dealing with Gocklo's betrayal, and Mitchell, and working with Marcellus/Morta? That would've been great. And Nerwen having more time with Yu Shu, confronting Bella? More greatness. It's a bit sad to have missed out on half the plot, which is my big critique of the quest, two months in segregation wasn't the best. LotN held up well and we had some good moments, but there's a reason why bigger player parties work better, when someone is quieter there's someone else to pick up the conversational slack. Plus, what bonds players is shared experiences. The side quest bonded me to Grimwald, Marcellus, Mitchell and Morta, and three of them Nerwen won't see again.

I originally read the request to split the party as an open field, but it was pointed out you'd asked for a two-two split and the NPC's paths had been chosen already, which drastically reduced the good options for who went where. I wanted both sides to have striking and healing, but the NPC strikers (Mitchell, Marcellus Gocklo) went one way and the healers (Yu Shu, Samuel) went the other, my call for the player characters paths was an attempt to balance that even if it did result missing great possible interactions.

So. Characters.

I love Gocklo and it was great to get more of his backstory. His betrayal hit deep, it's definitely a character note that Nerwen will hit again. I expected him to make a play but thought it'd be at the end. Stupid prophet.

Marcellus felt a bit flat as a character, Nerwen and he got off on the wrong foot over his asking to swear to rescue Morta. #102 soured Nerwen/me on extra oaths binding heroes into courses of action that later prove to be problematic. I think the other part of the weakness is that Morta didn't need to be rescued anyway. I get why, it preserves her power and unfettered agency but it came at the cost of Marcellus' effectiveness as a character.

Mitchell. Poor poor Mitchell. Any other time and Nerwen would've just healed him, no questions asked. But after Gocklo's stupidity and Marcellus' blockheadedness and Morta's cryptic unhelpfulness, saving Zepher NPCs seemed more trouble that it was worth. Especially how He seemed to be 'dying' of not much, there wasn't a mechanic reason for it, so we just shrugged and read it as a pre-planned plot-note character test (even though you clarified it wasn't). The resolution was a bit soft too. On one hand little to no consequences in quest made it feel a little cheap, but Zeph quest NPCs have bigger pictures and I'm sure we'll see how the Golden Enforcer's death affects the Golden Crusade.

I could tell you enjoyed playing Avery it was good to see her again. And Samuel too.

Yu Shu went missing in the second half of the quest, which was a shame, we didn't get to see her deal much with ending her brother. But then, she'd had much longer to come to terms with that than we as PCs did.

The enemies were fun and the battles (aside from that random hallway battle) were inventive and challenging. As a minor note on the hallway battle, from our point of view, those guys just showed up. I know you rolled for them, having set yourself rules for how they'd move and wanting to keep those rules to be playing 'fair', but you ought feel freer to manipulate circumstances like that for better story outcomes, unless the mechanic is upfront and open (and we'd've never known you were rolling for movement unless you said). As it was the party wipe (against mooks!) caused us to miss solving the maze and the other half party having to double back prematurely.

Anyway. I like Zepher quests, I must, I keep signing up for them! And this one (segregation not withstanding) was a good one! Thank you for your long hard work.

Pala. I love Pretzel. He's almost always got something to say, an opinion. From where I sit though, he feels a little .... stuck though. I've previously commented that humans don't live that long, he most be something else. What is he? It seems like you're not sure. If he's been around for that long, even if he was human at the start, if he can remember most of it, his perspective on relationships and people and things ought be radically different to other humans living for 40 or 50 years. play that up.

LotN. Grimwald feels old, which is what you're shooting for which is great. He's a joking punster who can lay down the hurt, a great companion. A little more background and conversation about why he's in heroica and you're all set.

KotZ. Kiray conversely feels young, so kudos. My comment for you is a little meta, battles are hard to follow I know, but pushing beyond "I repeat" or "I follow orders" makes for better parties. When battles don't interrupt RP but fuel it, everyone gets more. Otherwise, keep going!

Apologies if Nerwen/I came across a bit bossy in battles! Perhaps sharing around the NPC battle babysitting might've helped that. Ah well, hindsight. But it was great questing with you all, and Pala, I'll see you for our third quest running together. I want to know what makes Pretzel tick! But thanks to you guys too.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Chromeknight

[Palathadric]

And… that's all the time I have this morning, embarrassingly. I will complete my notes on the side quest and then the finale bit of the quest later this evening, hopefully. Maybe it will be more readable in two chunks anyway.

[LordoftheNoobs]

I'd say something long and interesting, but I feel like I'd just be repeating everyone else.

So instead, I'll just say that I thoroughly enjoyed the Quest and all it's characters and their interactions, both PC and NPC.

Edited June 23, 2015 by LordoftheNoobs

[Asphalt]

Quest 134

My apologies for waiting so long to give my thoughts, but it has been a bit hectic.

Honestly there isn't a whole lot I can add to Kintobor's assessment. I really enjoyed the quest. Very exciting to be on a good old fashioned dragon hunt. For a sword and sorcery themed online game, there dragons are few and far between. This one had not only a dragon, but a damsel in distress, and an insane megalomaniac who thought he was bettering the world. Throw in teaming up with dire wolves and parrots and you had a fun lighthearted quest, with a lot of things to keep it interesting. It was also nice to see another puzzle, and some talk yourself out of it opportunities.

The fights,

They were fun and made sense to me. There was enough heavy hitting to keep it tense but not so much that you had no hope. Though it the dice had gone poorly we could have been wiped out pretty quick. The combination of enemy specials in the Boss fight were especially fun and impressive.

The loot:

Awesome love my armor.

The Party.

Vindsval has been traveling with Annie and Warlen for quite some time now and it has been fun to watch them grow. Annie especially. I love her more and more as she grows. I get at times she was getting steam rolled by events and Kintobor played that very well. I will send Vindsval on a quest with her again any time. I want to see her play up her book smarts more in the future. Don't go too outside knowledge on us, but throw some Hermoine in there for us. Show off what she has read in all of those books. Warlen toned down the drunken debauchery in this one and that was good. It got to be a bit much for me at times and it was nice to see another aspect of the character.

Throlar

I really wish he would have been more active. I liked his gruff no nonsense attitude, and more input from his side would have been fun to read. I look forward to seeing more of him in the future.

Slyph

Slyph was a blast. Up until now Vindsval hasn't run into any other clerics, let alone a devoutly religious character. I enjoyed seeing that a lot. And since I have had his father being a traveling druid in mind since I created him it was nice to see what that would look like. Slyph was a good guy and was written well. His conversation was smooth and believable and he staid in character. Sign Vindsval up with him any time.

Lethauros

I know he wasn't a character, but in a way he was. It wasn't a hey there is the boss lets kill it. WE got to interact and talk to him as much as we did each other. The digital build looked great, the personality was there and the presence was huge. Dragons are dragons man, and you gave us a good one.

Over all, thanks for the quest. Loved it and I can't wait to go out with you again some time.

[Zepher]

I'll get it up tomorrow - I closed shop today and open tomorrow with only a seven hour turn around time… but does mean I get off at a reasonable hour tomorrow and will be heavily caffeinated when I do, so writing the rest of my thoughts should be a breeze.

[Zepher]

Alright, let's finish this up!

Side Quest: It was over-all… good, at the beginning, at least. I'm glad you got to know more about Gocklo and Mitchell, though it felt a little forced - I had Deborah stupidly say that Gocklo didn't really say much about his past, and she's been working with him for years, and then two strange heroes come by and he spills all the beans. Weird choice on my part, but perhaps she was just being protective and didn't want to tell his story for him. I think it's a little bit of that, and I think he does genuinely really like Nerwen, and he knew that he'd be crossing her at some point (if not as early as he did) and he wanted her to understand. Mitchell likewise was fun to flesh out a little. When he appeared way back in 84 (told you the Golden Crusade has been around for a while! and heck look right there are already Warrior Priests, Golden Crusade and Witches all in the same room!) he wasn't particularly full in my mind yet. But then Sandy created the Darkland mutants and that seemed a good original home for him.

And then the witches. Yes, there were two. Nona sort of hinted that both her sisters were missing in 123, though she only mentioned Morta specifically. It was a bit of a cheap trick on my part, yes. Why would the Order Imperial need two witches (well, they tried to get all three… again evidenced by 123). But it let you fulfill your requirements while still allowing Gocklo some revenge. I was a little surprised you didn't chase after him more, I had a bit of story for that, but that was fine. Anyway, I hope his betrayal made sense in some regard, and in fairness I think Simon was making some good points. Simon and Nerwen had a nice talk, and I worked hard to paint him as a villain with a honorable if incredibly perverse and corrupted code. He genuinely believed everything he said, which I think is important for a religious fanatic. I pitied him a little. Anyway, Gocklo flips, things go downhill, Mitchell and you fight until Bernard shows up - I was happy with that mechanic, and it allowed me to weaken you and your ally before throwing you into the real fight, which I think was fun and unpredictable for me - how weak would you guys make each other? I think it also highlighted Mitchell's ideals - he was covering Gocklo's retreat, not being just nasty. There'd be no good way to make that honest without showing it.

Mitchell's death was a bit sad, to me, because I could tell you were both frustrated with the RP element of it. I should have put in a better explanation. If you HAD carried him, he could have been revived later on, but there was no real way for me to tell you that without making it an incredibly easy choice. I think it was cool that Grimwald was the one to land the killing blow… don't know why he did it, really, but we'll discuss that when we get to characters a bit more. Still liked it.

The Gustav part was… weak. I wanted to show that an Order Imperial would live to tell the tale, for Kintober's Order Imperial story, and I wanted to include someone from the first Order Imperial Quest so they weren't all my own characters, and I was happy that Grimwald would see someone he recognized, since he and Kiray didn't have the same people to latch on to as Nerwen and to a lesser extent Pretzel. But no one really talked to him - both on me and on you, I think - what would you have said to him, really? Still, disappointed, but perhaps a mis-step. That fight worked fine, I thought.

Then we get to the maze. Bleh. Sorry about this. Totally my fault, and not even with planning this portion of the quest, it's really just a direct result of Bella's fight being poorly planned - had to give you a way to kill time, and it just felt like a dungeon crawl, which I hated. I mean, it WAS a dungeon crawl. But I couldn't think of anything on the fly, since pretty much all the other characters were tied up. Totally my bad. It did let me show off some of Morta's power… and, something no one commented on, but it did allow me to show that Morta was willing to take steps to defend Marcellus for all of everyone's talk.

I'll address most notes later on, but I want to touch on one of Chrome's that I agreed with at first glance while running the quest, but felt differently towards around this point. You say Marcellus was undermined by not needing to save Morta, and I think that's slightly true, but not in a detrimental way. I think it was an interesting highlight to their relationship, which surely must be different than we can imagine. Actually, Nerwen has been some inspiration for the witches - they're old, and the way you play old is so different and powerful… I've just pushed that to the extreme. So, yes, she didn't NEED to be saved in the sense that she wasn't in danger, and she didn't mind captivity. But she has lived an eternity, so she could have spent a century in that cell without batting an eye. Marcellus, on the other hand, knows he is a mortal. He likely knew she wasn't in any danger of death, but he did know if he sat by he could potentially never see her again. So THAT's what he was fighting against. Morta, on the other hand, for all the insistences that he is her servant or pet, was happy to let him walk free and lead his own life, but did defend him once harm came to him. It's subtle, but I think it was there, and I think with that information the things that happen between them in the future will be even more interesting. It's certainly factoring into parts of my final quest. Often times after playing a character I find out that they feel differently than I thought, and I have to change future outlines. This is one of those cases.

I also discovered that Morta likes pushing buttons. Originally she and Deborah would serve as the straight people in their Order who would explain what was going on. Earlier I said how I couldn't figure out how to reveal the Golden Crusade's manifesto, and then I realized just put their straight shooting members alone and they'd just tell someone! I felt the same could be done with Morta… but then found out after putting her in the story that Nona was more the character who would do that, not Morta. But she did, eventually. I think just for fun. Sorry for having her rub Nerwen the wrong way so much. I think it was fun to see Nerwen finally interact with someone and something hauteur and older than herself. It's so rare, and she's so gentle to younger creatures it was fun to see her bristle when something threatened her authority a little. It felt in character, but still new.

The parties re-unite, we fight Simon's bodyguard and re-met Deborah, who again is important to see again because it proves that while the Golden Crusade has anterior motives, they really did intend to wipe the floor with the Order Imperial. It stands with their concept of forward movement, so I wanted to make them out to have been pretty genuine at the forefront. Glad Nerwen got to used that Essence of Sorrow, and even more glad it worked, would have been a shame if the item went to waste. 50/50 items are scary that way.

Then they meet Simon finally. Great talks from all. That battle was well crafted, I felt, though Grimwald broke it a little (to balance that he did get just awful rolls… I'm sorry about that. Like, absurdly bad rolls. Could have used that for RP, a bit, LotN). Nerwen did, in this battle and last battle, get to be a little "this is the battle list and all he actions" which I don't like personally ,and you could see other players having an easier time than ever saying "repeat" etc. The whole end of the quest felt like it lost serious steam. I think it was just fatigue on all ends, both mind and the players, from again the breaks my travel created, and from a bit of a longer quest than it should have been, especially after the Bella/Maze battles. But I think this helped allow players be lulled to sleep as opposed to step up, and its's something to watch. It's tough - Boomingham is a bossy character too so I understand it - even just giving the suggestions as "commands" by shouting at the characters gives them a little bit more to play off of.

Pretzel's ending with Simon was well-played. I enjoyed it, Pala, and was happy to offer you a final thing to do. I'll post all the side quests as soon as possible - either later today or within about 24 hours of now.

The farewells to characters were a little sad and tired… but I felt that's the way it should be. What was there to say? They'd gone in, nearly every "party" or agency had lost someone… so you go home, right? I tried to add the bit about Abel and Yu Shu, but again at the end of the day I think Yu Shu was too tired to argue, and if it came to blows she couldn't do anything. I think it will influence her future, though. I imagine her considering ordering Avery kill him on the ship, but she wouldn't. That's not honorable.

I'll edit in responses to the notes and post character thoughts in a bit! Or, in two weeks, Pala.

[Zepher]

First, again, Zeph, thanks! This was the third quest with you out of my last four. You've hosted Nerwen more than any other QM. I know what to expect. Agendas, betrayals, moral ambiguity and being a bit player in larger stories.

Glad you know what you're in for at this point. I do want to let you know - and I know you recognize this but it's always fun to let you know what you've done - Samuel, for example, exists solely because of you. If you hadn't beheaded Raguel, I would have never bothered with his apprentice. Then in 102 it became apparent to me that Samuel would play a part in this quest, because of what you were saying to him. What you said to him made the difference as to if you would face him as a foe, or as not a foe. And sure, it wouldn't have changed the quest a ton (significantly, but not a ton) but it would have changed him and Nerwen, which matters more to me then the "plotting".

LotN held up well and we had some good moments, but there's a reason why bigger player parties work better, when someone is quieter there's someone else to pick up the conversational slack. Plus, what bonds players is shared experiences. The side quest bonded me to Grimwald, Marcellus, Mitchell and Morta, and three of them Nerwen won't see again.

You better see them again. You need to come on my finale. Not need to. But you should. Nerwen will probably be the only character who knows all the parties at play in the finale at this point.

I originally read the request to split the party as an open field, but it was pointed out you'd asked for a two-two split and the NPC's paths had been chosen already, which drastically reduced the good options for who went where. I wanted both sides to have striking and healing, but the NPC strikers (Mitchell, Marcellus Gocklo) went one way and the healers (Yu Shu, Samuel) went the other, my call for the player characters paths was an attempt to balance that even if it did result missing great possible interactions.

Yes, it's not ideal. I am away from my bricks most of the time when I host, which DOES limit me in many ways I wish it didn't. The party split had to be that way. It had to be done before hand. BUT, it is what it is. I think that my next few quests will attempt to remedy situations like this, if not perfectly, at least to improve.

I love Gocklo and it was great to get more of his backstory. His betrayal hit deep, it's definitely a character note that Nerwen will hit again. I expected him to make a play but thought it'd be at the end. Stupid prophet.

Like I said of Pala before, it's always best when I can get a character and player to feel the same. I'm glad Gocklo got to you. He likes Nerwen!

I addressed your notes on Marcellus and Morta above. Mitchell as well. I will try to show better what the Golden Crusade does about his death. That's a great note!

Yu Shu went missing in the second half of the quest, which was a shame, we didn't get to see her deal much with ending her brother. But then, she'd had much longer to come to terms with that than we as PCs did.

Notes like this (and Pala's realization that Marcellus was mostly there so Oko didn't catch on to anything fishy) makes me happy to play with players like you. You understand things that aren't stated, but are informing characters. It's grew tho see people recognize that characters have had different histories leading up to the quest, and it affects their actions. Yu Shu knew she would have to kill her brother, or at least that she had lost him completely already. It's cool that you can pick up on that.

Anyway. I like Zepher quests, I must, I keep signing up for them! And this one (segregation not withstanding) was a good one! Thank you for your long hard work.

And I love hosting you! like I said, I think it's good for us to take a break, but I hope you'll be back!

So, my final act (before posting those sidequests):

Nerwen:

I have hosted Nerwen so many times, I'll just keep this short and sweet. I like how she makes friends with NPCs. I always had this issue when I hosted Nyx too… it's less dynamic if my affection for a character bleeds through and all my NPCs end up liking them too. I'm afraid that sometimes happens with Nerwen. But she's got so many attributes that my characters would admire. She's fierce and brave, a leader, determined, and principled (something Deborah AND Yu Shu ended up respecting). She's understanding and fair. She's stubborn as hell. I've said it before - I respect two strong choices with Nerwen. a) I love that her good traits are often also her bad traits, and b) I love the way you've viewed old age. I see often in fantasy ageless old characters are very "stuck in their ways". You play Nerwen as if she has eventually discovered that change is the only constant, and she's come to terms with that. Perhaps it's my fascination with Zen and Tao, but I think it's a superb and intriguing direction to go. It is certainly something I've adopted for the Witches. You're also fantastic at considering the character history, which is radically important.

Pretzel:

Lots of similar notes. Pretzel has grown a lot since we've met him. I wish, sometimes, that he retained a bit MORE of his argumentative nature and independent streak. He's gotten almost "too good" for me. But, still, I love him. He's pragmatic, and powerful, and battle hardened. I loved his interactions with Gocklo and Marcellus - his view on "inferior" races has become more playful, which makes it almost more dastardly. I love that. Him and Marcellus and Gocklo were a great weird trio. I like how he and Avery got along really well too, near the end. Or at least she liked him. I agree with Chrome a bit - pick what you want to mean "old age" to mean to you and play it up, because we've sort of lost that fun side of him.

Grimwald:

Grimwald was a bit of a toss up character for me. He faded to the back a little near the end, which was disappointing. Like I said earlier, I really loved his talks with Pretzel and Oko at the beginning, and I really loved him killing Mitchell. He's old too, but a different old than the other two characters above. He's probably near the end of his life, and it shows through with his tired practicality - I think it'd be fun to push. He also… is he the character who was a barber before joining? I LOVED that character trait. Play it up a little. Regardless of if I'm wrong about that, what was his job before hand? Working class, right? I feel like that could be a great character. It shines through in his happiness at the new and fantastic but his world-weary ways, but I'd push that even more.

Kiray:

I like Kiray. She's been on some interesting quests and we've learned a lot about her in that time. I was extremely excited to host you after reading you playing in 104. I loved her friendship with Oko, and I hope to see how it affects her in the future. Same with Abel - glad she was able to have him stand down, because you could tell it mattered to her. You've laid an appropriate amount of ground for her past, and what I think would be best would be if she started to pretty heavily react to the previous quests. We saw it a bit with her bringing up Diana at the beginning of this quest, but I'd like to see it even more. She's been through some tough situations for a "younger" hero and I'd like to see how it starts to seriously affects her.

Now my final act is to get up those side quests so people know what the hell we're talking about.

[KotZ]

Kiray:

I like Kiray. She's been on some interesting quests and we've learned a lot about her in that time. I was extremely excited to host you after reading you playing in 104. I loved her friendship with Oko, and I hope to see how it affects her in the future. Same with Abel - glad she was able to have him stand down, because you could tell it mattered to her. You've laid an appropriate amount of ground for her past, and what I think would be best would be if she started to pretty heavily react to the previous quests. We saw it a bit with her bringing up Diana at the beginning of this quest, but I'd like to see it even more. She's been through some tough situations for a "younger" hero and I'd like to see how it starts to seriously affects her.

Thanks, Zeph! I agree, Kiray's groundwork is there, now it's all about bringing it to the forefront. I think the cracks started in 127 when she had her breakdown, continued a little bit in the training room/black knight decision, and I'm expecting it to happen in her current quest and following.

Hope to have her go on one of your quests again someday!

[Flipz]

Thanks, Zeph! I agree, Kiray's groundwork is there, now it's all about bringing it to the forefront. I think the cracks started in 127 when she had her breakdown, continued a little bit in the training room/black knight decision, and I'm expecting it to happen in her current quest and following.

Hope to have her go on one of your quests again someday!

I'm really hoping I can take her on my next Diana Quest, it's coming along nicely.

[KotZ]

I'm really hoping I can take her on my next Diana Quest, it's coming along nicely.

Kiray will patiently sit in the hall waiting for the notice to put up if she has to. Either way, whether she's on it or not, I can't wait to read it.

[Palathadric]

This was just a really weird quest for Pretzel, because, despite the events of 108, Pretzel still is quite fiercely loyal to the Paladin Order. He still respects the Order Imperial immensely though, and he may have seriously considered switching sides (especially considering Avery, Marcellus, and the like) had the heroes not been there. At the end, he is also very loyal to Heroica and he really liked all the heroes he was questing with a lot. They were all too good, in his mind, for Pretzel to turn his back on them. He also didn't like Bella much, though he liked Simon until Simon said "nasty" things to him. Pretzel will probably become more argumentative again, at some point (though I find it difficult to play him like that currently), but now he's a bit disillusioned by the "greyness" of the world.

Or at least that's what I say. It might just be laziness on my part.

[JimBee]

"Are you seriously playing it dirty, grampa? You can't just admit defeat?"

"Your friends are in some steep trouble inside there with a bunch of furious goblins. Go help them instead of messing with us!"

What would Sarge decide? Battle the werelions for the gem, or rush in to help Heckz and Periwinkle against the goblins?

This quest just gets better and better. Heckz and Peri lost the race, but now they get the chance to gain even more gold and XP from the goblins, but with higher risk. Sarge is going to fight the lions for the treasure, also for an added risk. I really like that even though the party made an unexpected decision to "solve" the puzzle, the QM responded with a solution that isn't an outright punishment, but raises the stakes by offering a greater risk and a greater reward.

[Pyrovisionary]

This quest just gets better and better. Heckz and Peri lost the race, but now they get the chance to gain even more gold and XP from the goblins, but with higher risk. Sarge is going to fight the lions for the treasure, also for an added risk. I really like that even though the party made an unexpected decision to "solve" the puzzle, the QM responded with a solution that isn't an outright punishment, but raises the stakes by offering a greater risk and a greater reward.

I'm really loving #130, it's been a joy to have been in the parties of this and #100.

[Palathadric]

I'm really loving #130, it's been a joy to have been in the parties of this and #100.

It already has to be one of my favourites of all time, it may even rival 100.

[Sandy]

I'm really loving #130, it's been a joy to have been in the parties of this and #100.

It already has to be one of my favourites of all time, it may even rival 100.

Thanks, guys! Let me tell you that it hasn't been easy keeping track of everything that's going on in the quest, but it seems that this type of campaign-style quests work well in the context of this game, much more so than dungeon crawler-styled ones. Story and pacing may suffer in campaign-style, but you get a much deeper connection with the environment and the NPCs when it's not just walking from A to B to C.

[Asphalt]

Well, I just finished up my first quest. Let the critiques rip everyone.