Heroica RPG - Quest Masters' Lounge

[Darkdragon]

WBD, thanks for the review. I was and am trying to get back into it and post more. Cinna is generally quiet unless really riled up though, like you said wiating for facts. The quest ended up going through some rather turbulent IRL things that were unexpected, but hopefully I did alright. The final battle was very difficult for me to keep up with understanding what was happening but I did my best there as well.

Great quest. I'm glad I joined in. The circus idea was fun, fun is good!

[Waterbrick Down]

WBD, thanks for the review. I was and am trying to get back into it and post more. Cinna is generally quiet unless really riled up though, like you said wiating for facts. The quest ended up going through some rather turbulent IRL things that were unexpected, but hopefully I did alright. The final battle was very difficult for me to keep up with understanding what was happening but I did my best there as well.

Great quest. I'm glad I joined in. The circus idea was fun, fun is good!

That's sort of what I figured, after quest 50 I could see anyone wanting to take things a little more relaxed and low key.

[Waterbrick Down]

1. Enemy Balance

Baradock fell on his face. Alot. I'm talkin' bout being K.O.'d in a bunch of fights! And when I was up I didn't feel like I was contributing much anyway. The more experienced heroes could make the enemies look like my favorite type of cheese without me. Swiss! Still there were some that I REALLY enjoyed. Being the tentacle fight and the battle at the garrison. So + + There

Seeing as how those were 2/3 battles that I designed, I'd say I did pretty well. But yeah, I was sort of disappointed that the comrodary between heroes didn't lead to more revivals at points. I understand the whole logical point of waiting until it's necessary or using them wisely, but I think too many folks gave gotten used to always having a great supply of consumables. We really tested the limit with this quest and in the end I was satisfied between the ratio of consumables as loot and the consumables being utilized.

2. When Proposed with a Decision

I'd like it if they were both viable in their own right. Personally I made Baradock go opposite of the main course of action because he's a hipster it fit his character and I was just overall curious. Curiosity almost killed the cat in this case. And why would you want to kill cats?

Part of this ties in with what Flipz was talking about, yes there was a preferred decision that we as QM's had, but that didn't mean that the alternative was not allowed (I exaggerated when I said the quest would have failed had you declined to help the circus, you'd still need to figure out a way to help the circus accomplish it's goals, but it would have been exponentially more difficult). Part of that has to do with the medium of Heroica RPG, we can provide you with infinate options, the catch is that you'd have to be willing to wait while we built and photographed sets, came up with stats and puzzles on the fly and eventually brought some closure to the quest so you could return back. Heroica RPG is closer to a video game in that it is episodic in nature. Yes it is one big giant world, but the PC's only get to see it in predetermined chunks. Heroes can't just leave and go exploring and finding adventures due to the way the game is structured. Thus in order to stick to time constraints (and especially in these three quests) we need to allow for some choice and freedom on our players' part, but players also need to realize that they will need to make some sacrifices as far as their free-will goes in order for everyone to have an enjoyable time. It all goes back to a concept of "buy in" something I'll probably elaborate on at another time.

Now with the Baltarok Trilogy as a whole

1. Gotta go fast!

I felt at many places there was a rush to sync up with the other quests, and vice versa. I know it couldn't be helped with different levels of activity going on in each quest but it was still an issue for me.

Note that this is the second multi-quest in the game's history. I feel it went a little better than the Dastan Trilogy but still was disjointed, practice makes perfect I guess. Which parts would you have liked more time in? Not a sarcastic question, but I'd like to know for future quests so I can improve on time management.

2. No connection between Quests

Wait wait, I know I know. The quests did intersect together. But! I feel it'd be neat if there was a way to feel connected when we weren't face to face with the other party. As if something one party did affected another's story telling.

This was intentional, Baltarok and the High Kingdoms are very expansive and everything only came together in the very end and the decisions that all of the heroes had made in their respective quests finally had an impact on how things ended up on the bridge. Trust us there were multiple outcomes depending on what happened in the individual quests.

3. That bridge battle though.

I don't have much to say on the mechanics of the battle, seeing as how Baradock was knocked out for the most of it and cowering in fear folding a paper swan for the rest! (Hooray for poo-sticks) The lack of a back row was harsh too. And most notably, it felt it dragged out. I know it's hard to get it going when people aren't posting in every 24-hours...guilty...but- It was a finale so I suppose it's okay!

Overall it was a good experience to have under my belt and I will be using things I picked up from you guys for when I host a quest! WBD,CMP, and Zepher. Ya did good.

Yeh, the final battle. Again it was a learning experience. I wasn't a big fan of the lower level heroes being knocked out so many times, though it was encouraging to see some of the higher level heroes be more benevolent and revive them. The actual enemies distribution unfortunately rendered it difficult to allow the lower level heroes to always be relevant to the situation at hand. We've only had a few quests where a large disparity between levels existed, so it's definitely not the norm, but I was encouraged by the way everyone worked together and did their best to make everyone feel valued. Thanks for the input.

[Cryos]

Which parts would you have liked more time in? Not a sarcastic question, but I'd like to know for future quests so I can improve on time management.

Honestly, the only parts in which I would've liked more time is when we first met the circus troupe. Or atleast some character development on the way to the garrison. Though I do commend you for placing it after the garrison fight. And secondly, The aftermath of the battle with Mint and Hamilton. But other those are the only two incidents I could really note.

(Also, team Mint won by sheer warrior might! Hamilton needed an Essence to even stand a chance. )

Edit: Also, unrelated to Baltarok but QMing in general.

How do you guys write stats for enemies before you even know the heroes you'll be hosting? Started stats yesterday and I'm stumped.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Cryos

[Scubacarrot]

How do you guys write stats for enemies before you even know the heroes you'll be hosting? Started stats yesterday and I'm stumped.

You don't.

Of course ideas for specials, perhaps passive specials or just combination of immunities/ strong enemies vs. amount of enemies can be thought of to make interesting battle ideas beforehand, but the actual stats, you write those later.

[Flipz]

You don't.

This. I have a couple Specials written up as a general idea of what I'd like them to do, but they're riddled with blank spaces I can fill in later for things like damage amounts or specific effects. For example:

Gale Wings - [enemy name] flaps their mighty wings to increase their speed, gaining a Free Hit at the end of the Round.

Lightning Breath - [Enemy name] breathes a bolt of forked lightning, hitting the Hero and the Hero below them for [##] Lighning-elemental damage and the [effect]-effect.

This way you can figure out WHAT enemies you want and what sort of abilities you'd like them to have, but can then tailor the numbers to suit your actual party.

[Capt.JohnPaul]

Thank you CMP for yhe critique! Again, I apologize for the slight inactive parts. I can assure everyone that won't happen again. I also appreciate the suggestions you've given. :)

[Duvors]

Gale Wings - [enemy name] flaps their mighty wings to increase their speed, gaining a Free Hit at the end of the Round.

Lightning Breath - [Enemy name] breathes a bolt of forked lightning, hitting the Hero and the Hero below them for [##] Lighning-elemental damage and the [effect]-effect.

It's a Thunderbird isn't it?

[Cryos]

Thanks for the feed back. Though it may be a bit harder to apply that because of the nature of the quest. I'll start specials and stuff though for now!

[Vash the Stampede]

This review may seem a bit short but I just took an hour typing up my review, hit backspace because I typed a word wrong and instead of deleting a letter I go back to the previous page losing all my work. (And the autosave feature doesn't help here) Try to extrapolate information on what I say because I won't be going in to as much detail as the original no one else saw.

Overall I had a positive experience of the quest. Realistic NPC's, meeting up with heroes to see how they were doing and even helping them a tad as the quests intersected. The whole Baltarok trilogy was one of the biggest and heaviest quests ever had (whooho, we beat two armies) and it's not everyday we can say we decided the fate of an entire kingdom.

Out of all the great NPC's I really enjoyed the all of those in the Circus Troupe and despite being with them almost the entire quest I really wish we got to know them better. Though with trying to synchronise quests and move the plot forward I can see why they took a back seat.

The final battle was very much a learning moment. The enemies could easily take out basically any hero leaving only the most tanky to survive one hit (but not two). Considering the lack of back row to the melee fighers (who really needed it) and other normal strategies being mauled through a slight rule change this was worse than it needed to be and sent many a person into great stress (I believe that despite this some people still went overboard but hey, we eventually made it). Even though I posted suggestions on better artifact uses to get unused great artifacts to the front line I feel like this was completely ignored by EVERYONE. It wasn't until the Kingdoms were making cream out of us that the smelly hide finally got to good tanky use, despite the fact I had posted the same thing BEFORE the battle even started. Is this because I don't have as much presence as other characters and got glossed over/ignored? Did people like Guts and Nerwen steal the spotlight for their great roleplaying moments? I don't know and I hold nothing against anyone but considering how much easier the battle could've been and then considering my suggestion was eventually used anyway the whole thing does annoy me a tad. Added to this I feel like at this point a lot of players were glossed over, not just myself and we hadn't even really realised how stressful the battle would be latter. I feel like this experience is also something the player base probably needs to grow on a bit possibly more than the QMs seeing how we won't be having a giant climactic battle every quest.

At the disappearance of Nagure he took away with him much need phoenix essences and even more needed incenses (and potions really, seems that the more experienced players really could have done better). This is more a fault of the higher leveled heroes not packing well but I feel that we really needed a shop somewhere. Even with inflated prices we really needed those essences and potion. I really felt sorry for the new heroes who got hit down but we usually couldn't get back up due to how early in the quest we'd be using a rather needed important resource. (Once again more of a player issue than a QM one but I feel that we should've been able to have a shop pop up somewhere). It almost turned out being a good thing we didn't use those essences as I believe all Circus Heroes used up their essences during the final battle but we still had many a hero KO'd.

The last thing I really have to say about the quest was the railroading.

Ok sure you said we did have a choice (not saying that we didn't) but essentially it felt like there was a house on fire right in front of us. We could very well go down the road and fill up buckets from a tap but you'd be stupid to do that if there is a firetruck right there with a high pressure hose waiting to be used. We were thrown into Baltarok (with what I gather from IC conversations with other questees) with less information about what was going on than anyone else given only a brief overview. I have no problem with this, it felt real with a quick pace happening and the feeling of a time limit as the fate of the high kingdoms were at stake. There was a heavy load on our backs and this helped make the world more realistic. However with our lack of information though we had no choice but to priorities the existence of Grishnod who from our information was the only means to get Valentino back (and even then it happened a different way than originally expected). When General Mint came along wanting Grishnod, with no fall back plan to get Valentino otherwise it felt almost forced to protect him at this time. Maybe we could've used the same strategy as when we broke Grishnod out for Valentino however given the place we would do it I have the feeling it would be just about impossible (not to mention what effect this could have on political relations with Valentino broken out rather than gotten through with 'legitimate means'). We eventually tried to trade Valentino for Grishnod but that went down the toilet. At this point I believe every Quest 90er (with the exception of Baradok who didn't care in the first place [not that I blame him, really he was making more sense than anyone else but the other heroes and characters would've wanted to do the job despite not being as advertised]) was stumped. With no idea of what to do next Grishnod pulls out the trial of the three circles. This was almost too good to be true and at this point felt more of something that happened for the sake of the plot. Or Tv Troupes I could find (and luckily not closed the tab for from my last attempt), more of a But Thou Must or Follow the Plotted Line. Essentially Dreyrugr actually would've preferred Bastala as the head of the clan because her argument made a lot more sense than Grishnods but Dreyrugr supported Grishnod only to get Valentino, which as discussed earlier almost left us in the dark for what to do. Although Grishnod did grow and seems to actually be mulling the whole ordeal over in his mind trying to get the best balance between tradition and advancement which Dreyrugr would support more than Bastala but he didn't know that part originally. The rest is history.

Despite the large negative comments of my post I still came out of this feeling more positive than negative. If I had the chance to do it all again I would gladly come on this quest again and would enjoy the chance to go on perhaps a smaller WBD quest. Thanks for the amazing experience to all QMs of the Baltarok Trilogy.

Vash the Stampeed/Dreyrugr:

One of the things I wanted when selecting a party for this quest was variety. Dreyrugr the vampiric black knight fit the bill. You had some key conversations with Boris and Grishnod and along with Cinna, you provided the back bone of the party as far as making the best decision went. As with Cinna, I would have like to see a little more interaction but I've noted that Dreyrugr takes after the strong & silent type. Your bit of hiding and sneaking in the Nord's outpost was excellent and I'd encourage you to keep up that free-form style of thinking. Would love to host you again at some point and figure out the buttons to push to get him passionate about something.

Well with this quest I really pushed Dreyrugr to his limits. I'd always wanted Dreyrugr to come off as you said 'the strong, silent type' however through my experience with quests this becomes more of a holding back than development in the way of both character or to the quest itself. I believe Dreyrugr was the most talkative in this quest compared to any other quest he has been on and I'm not sure if I'm entirely happy with the result. I could post something after rereading it several times, come back the next day and think 'Really, that's not how I envisioned Dreyrugr's character at all'. But in a quest as big as this on I felt this was something I had to do to get Dreyrugr's thoughts across and hopefully the experience from this will allow me to do a better job on future quests. If I ever get to the almighty second character they will definitely be a great deal more talkative and in terms of personality hopefully a lot more normal. (At times roleplaying Dreyrugr is much harder than appears at first glance) As I said before I'd very much enjoy going on a much smaller scale quest of yours and I really enjoyed the experience. Thanks for bringing me along.

[StickFig]

I wouldn't know where to begin to post a review/critique for Quest 90 (or the Baltarok Trilogy). I would like to say thank you to all who have posted their reviews here so far; reading other players' and the QMs' thoughts about the quest has opened my eyes to a huge number of things that I had no idea were going on - and has led me to understand a lot of the things I wondered about during the quest. I do agree with Dreyrugr that the "Three Trials" bit with Grisnod and Bastala was a bit ...contrived, maybe? for the sake of the plot, but I can't say we as players didn't force WBD into it - but that just tells me once again how much I was missing (and probably still am). The only thing that I want to bring up is this: players, please be active when you're on a quest. And that doesn't mean just posting "repeat" - it means reading what the other PCs have posted and reacting when appropriate. Matthias asked questions or made suggestions several times and was completely ignored, and he wasn't the only one. I don't think it was malice on the part of the more experienced PCs, or condescension on the post of the more experienced players; I just think people didn't take the time to read.

nstickney/Matthias:

Where to begin? ... I'd really like to host you again in the future even though you are starting to assemble a build that will make a few QM's shake their heads when trying to balance for you.

I'm doing my best, and I really appreciate the encouragement (), but I have to admit that a lot of Matthias' "slowly and realistically finding out how to function in this new world of dragon slaying demigods" is actually just me (nstickney) "slowly and realistically finding out how to function" in this new world of (loosely) LEGO-based RP gaming. I'm glad that Matthias has turned out to be fun to host and interact with, and I had great fun on the quest.

Edited May 21, 2014 by nstickney

[Chromeknight]

Ok. Finally got to read all of the quests.

WOW.

Four plus months of questing from more than a dozen players and three QMs clearly working hard. Whatever criticisms may be made it still must be said you guys achieved something epic. 'Grats!

Thanks also to my quest mates for bearing with me over summer (yes I'm in the other hemisphere) and birth of new son. My roleplay wasn't its best. But still, apparently pretty good. I feel the weight of a couple of things though.

Firstly. the rebuke about not playing well with the #90 party. I didn't do a great job there and I take Vash's point above about not listening to good tactical advice too.

Second. Damn, limited information sucks! I didn't have all the threads together on the bridge, so my case was weak and I offered up Raguel thinking he'd been bad. Sure he was a jerk and his relationship with David was... unhealthy, but he was innocent as he proclaimed. It'll be interesting to see how Nerwen processes that.

I can see how talking about sixteen hundred dead at Imaestym, pictures of burning buildings and the strung up corpses of orcs propelled party#89 toward war and why they were so inflexible. If Zeph had shown more of what the Nords had done in Carn (maybe mentioned a body count too...), and then dropped that they'd been paid by Bastala to take Grishnod we'd've had a lot more remorse over Mint's death, less mourning over sore-winner Hamilton and more anger at the orcs (or at least at Miss Sparkypants) for kicking the whole thing off. As it was, fighting the orcs was a little impersonal. I didn't know who they were (other than guessing from their name and stats they were important). But then, that's just like a paladin right? an Orc is an Orc. So it's not a big deal.

Another thought was the party goals were a bit asymmetric. #88 needed to keep the bridge up, #89 needed to unite the clans (check), #90 needed to rescue Valentino (check), it felt a bit unfair that some from the other quests were pushing for solutions which would have seen us fail our quest despite theirs being in the bag. (And yes I know now both other quests could still have failed even then).

-another quibble, slave orcs? Nerwen saw one, but wasn't allowed to interact, I don't think anyone else even saw that much. Speaking to an Orc slave or two and hearing that they don't like being slaves, but the thought of going to Baltarok and living with 'wild orcs' like animals being worse would have been great twist. Here are the clans fighting and dying to rescue people who don't want rescuing. Irony.

Anyway, having to pick sides on the bridge and having that choice nebulously tied to succeeding/failing quests sucked. If it was just about getting XP at the end of the battle then that wasn't quite clear and would have taken some of the pressure off the choice. And again, the #89 heroes were pro-orcs, but #88 wasn't pro-Kingdoms (or even Anti-orcs) but a much weaker pro-not invasion. And, as pointed out there were fewer of us to voice our opinion.

If Nerwen hogged spotlight on the bridge, I'd like to apologise, that wasn't my intent. But that is the kind of situation I enjoy as a player, arguing over principles for a result, I did it at the end of Dastan too. Though as I said above, some of what came out was uninformed because I hadn't been reading the other quests.

Party wise, there was an interesting dynamic (or rather lack of)

Hoke is solid and no nonsense. Nerwen likes him, but fought against just taking over (sorry MDM for the times I did actually take over!)

Benji is now in an alien animalistic place, Nerwen doesn't quite know what to make of him. This meant not interacting with him much, which I regret. I hope to quest with him again and explore that.

Tesni is, like Hoke, solid, but made it clear that she had no truck with gods and Paladins. Normally I'd go there for RP moments but as mentioned above, I was distracted by life and I wasn't going to raise it without an opportunity, which given less participation from PepM, I didn't get.

And Jess. Nerwen could've got on well with the young elf assassin, but....

One of Zeph's great strengths is his intersting NPCs. Which paradoxically can be a drawback in a fragmented party, I feel like I had more conversation with Gocklo than with some of the PCs.

Other party wise.

Guts. Interesting as always. The Guts-Nerwen thing just happens without planning. I both like it (great character defining RP moments) and don't like it, (having my character defined in part by her relationship with another PC). We'll see where it goes now there's more tension between them over what happened on the bridge.

Cinna. You did well leading the newer players, mystic knight kick butt!

Baradock. Nerwen now has more respect for your stand with Mint. She'll tell you that in time. On a player note, sorry about the pooH sticks (damnit, left the H off in thread!), and swan folding. I owe you one, thanks for being cool about it.

Thanks to everyone else not mentioned there too. It's great playing in a big epic quest, but interacting meaningfully with everyone isn't always possible. There's always other quests. I'd love to quest with Thormanil and Alexis, and to host Matthias and Purpearl (or even quest with if a QM wants to put up with the level difference!)

That's enough rambley thoughts from me. TL;DR? It was epic. Thanks!

[UsernameMDM]

Yeah, I didn't/won't read over the other quests, but I had a suspicion that it was very political/Game of Thrones type stuff, hence Hoke wasn't all about getting into everyone's business. I honestly don't care for it. It's a bunch of half/low information, lose-lose situations and a lot of forced decisions because the plot has to move along, and you don't want to be the PC to hold stuff up trying to understand what exactly is going on. So, I just decided to play Hoke as a getting-the-job-done kind of guy.

In retrospect, fighting against Mint was a poor decision, but what guarantees did we PCs have that Mint didn't have ultier motives (back to the GoT-esque-ness/lose-lose situation)? Giving up Raguel may not have been the best choice either, but, to the 88 party, he acted pretty un-paladinish and all of the paladins seemed like whacko-hacks, especially with that mustache!

I commend Zepher, CMP & WBD for pulling this off though. Again, I just don't care for the intrigue/politics.

Can we get a break down of said relationships though? I would like to see how everything/one is connected and what decisions would have been made differently if that information was available.

As far as 88 PCs go, I had a good time with everyone, just wish Sisco & Pep would have participated more.

[CMP]

The limited perspective (having only a glimpse at the other quests) is what separates the heroes. It was one of the more interesting things about Dastan - it fueled the whole Constance battle, having only a limited angle from which to look at things.

The Kingdoms had most of the political intrigue covered. It sort of contrasts with the orcs, where the heroes pretty much just battled their way into gaining support from the clans.

Giving up Raguel may not have been the best choice either, but, to the 88 party, he acted pretty un-paladinish and all of the paladins seemed like whacko-hacks, especially with that mustache!

You should've attacked him on principle anyway. No decent person has a mustache that grandiose.

[UsernameMDM]

You should've attacked him on principle anyway. No decent person has a mustache that grandiose.

Hoke was just trying to trim his mustache!

[CMP]

Hoke was just trying to trim his mustache!

Good luck, that thing defies LEGO physics.

I am trying to create the filler battle, but am unable to take new pictures (no LEGO at college ) - is anyone willing to take TWO pictures and turn them into icons for me - the most devote followers of Ennoc in the Red Lizard army? They can be up to your design, the idea would simply be that they take their orders directly from Raguel instead of David/others. If not, that's okay, I'll just fake it and do it without icons. :blush:

Hope these work, I don't really have any Red Lizard soldiers.

Those are perfect, thanks so much!!

Would you mind taking one more, actually.

I'll be using it. :laugh: :laugh:

Edited May 21, 2014 by CallMePie

[Zepher]

You don't.

Of course ideas for specials, perhaps passive specials or just combination of immunities/ strong enemies vs. amount of enemies can be thought of to make interesting battle ideas beforehand, but the actual stats, you write those later.

Before I talk about Baltarok more, I'd actually like to comment on this, because my thoughts have changed on this significantly since I started hosting quests!

I agree with Scuba: I think you should have the specials and immunities thought out before you pick players - this allows for the heroes to benefit from their builds! If I designed enemies around Guts, for example, after I knew he was on a quest, I might slap "immune to ice" on quite a few foes so lifestealer wouldn't work, and might not have any of my enemies deal "30 lightning-damage" because Guts is immune to that. It's too tempting, I feel, to add those things once you know the heroes you'll be hosting, so I ALWAYS come up with those before hand so as not to punish the heroes for their builds.

The health/power, however, should come once you know the heroes you'll be hosting (I used to think this should come before hand too, but I have been taught that I'm totally wrong on that front).

Ok. Finally got to read all of the quests.

Second. Damn, limited information sucks! I didn't have all the threads together on the bridge, so my case was weak and I offered up Raguel thinking he'd been bad. Sure he was a jerk and his relationship with David was... unhealthy, but he was innocent as he proclaimed. It'll be interesting to see how Nerwen processes that.

Huzzah! I'm glad you read the others - and yes, this is exactly what we as the QMs were hoping for. Dastan was a true victory! So, this time around, we wanted a much more morally gray trilogy, especially the final act.

I can see how talking about sixteen hundred dead at Imaestym, pictures of burning buildings and the strung up corpses of orcs propelled party#89 toward war and why they were so inflexible. If Zeph had shown more of what the Nords had done in Carn (maybe mentioned a body count too...), and then dropped that they'd been paid by Bastala to take Grishnod we'd've had a lot more remorse over Mint's death, less mourning over sore-winner Hamilton and more anger at the orcs (or at least at Miss Sparkypants) for kicking the whole thing off. As it was, fighting the orcs was a little impersonal. I didn't know who they were (other than guessing from their name and stats they were important). But then, that's just like a paladin right? an Orc is an Orc. So it's not a big deal.

Showing the carnage of Carn probably would have served the quest better, and a body count would have been nice, but why would the Nords admit to being paid to take Grishnod? I don't know if even all the Nords were in on it - I can't imagine Belvin being aware of such a plot (and I never signed off on him being in on it) so it's possible he really just thought Grishnod was someone who had been captured normally. But yes, not knowing the Orcs - that was purposeful. No one in the High Kingdoms cares enough to know them apart, even the "good guys" Valentino and King Speros.

Another thought was the party goals were a bit asymmetric. #88 needed to keep the bridge up, #89 needed to unite the clans (check), #90 needed to rescue Valentino (check), it felt a bit unfair that some from the other quests were pushing for solutions which would have seen us fail our quest despite theirs being in the bag. (And yes I know now both other quests could still have failed even then).

This was a challenge. We actually had it so that the heroes of 90 couldn't complete their goal until after the bridge battle, but then somehow that changed.

-another quibble, slave orcs? Nerwen saw one, but wasn't allowed to interact, I don't think anyone else even saw that much. Speaking to an Orc slave or two and hearing that they don't like being slaves, but the thought of going to Baltarok and living with 'wild orcs' like animals being worse would have been great twist. Here are the clans fighting and dying to rescue people who don't want rescuing. Irony.

I didn't know Pie would be requesting that in the end, so I didn't really foreshadow it. But I agree it could have served the quest. I don't have that many Orc heads, which is why I ended up doing the Kingdom's side of things, actually.

I'm glad you liked Gocklo! As the epilogue more than heavy-handedly hints at, of all the NPCs in this quest, he and Heweyrt were the ones that have bigger roles to play!

Yeah, I didn't/won't read over the other quests, but I had a suspicion that it was very political/Game of Thrones type stuff, hence Hoke wasn't all about getting into everyone's business. I honestly don't care for it. It's a bunch of half/low information, lose-lose situations and a lot of forced decisions because the plot has to move along, and you don't want to be the PC to hold stuff up trying to understand what exactly is going on. So, I just decided to play Hoke as a getting-the-job-done kind of guy.

In retrospect, fighting against Mint was a poor decision, but what guarantees did we PCs have that Mint didn't have ultier motives (back to the GoT-esque-ness/lose-lose situation)? Giving up Raguel may not have been the best choice either, but, to the 88 party, he acted pretty un-paladinish and all of the paladins seemed like whacko-hacks, especially with that mustache!

I commend Zepher, CMP & WBD for pulling this off though. Again, I just don't care for the intrigue/politics.

Can we get a break down of said relationships though? I would like to see how everything/one is connected and what decisions would have been made differently if that information was available.

I know (and knew) upon taking you along that you didn't much care for political intrigue or politics, and I don't feel it's something you should apologize for! I actually think it helped the quest! It's the reason I made you the Party Leader - I really loved your drive to get things done, even while everyone else was trying to play their own game.

And what do you mean by a "break-down" of relationships? As in, what everyone's goals were? Or how they felt about each other? I can post that up when I do player reviews in the evening, at least on the Kingdom's side, if there's interest in that!

[UsernameMDM]

I know (and knew) upon taking you along that you didn't much care for political intrigue or politics, and I don't feel it's something you should apologize for! I actually think it helped the quest! It's the reason I made you the Party Leader - I really loved your drive to get things done, even while everyone else was trying to play their own game.

Haha! Thanks! Like I said, once I figured out the quests were getting meshed together and different factions were going to be involved, I just wanted Hoke to focus on the bridge. Raguel was offered up mainly because of the paladin 'escort.' Would those paladins have let the PCs go to the bridge without a fight? Why exactly did Raguel distrust the PCs, especially if he made one of them a paladin?

And what do you mean by a "break-down" of relationships? As in, what everyone's goals were? Or how they felt about each other? I can post that up when I do player reviews in the evening, at least on the Kingdom's side, if there's interest in that!

A who-is-connected-to-who-&why type thing. I just hope they aren't all dot-connected like Littlefinger!

[Zepher]

Would those paladins have let the PCs go to the bridge without a fight? Why exactly did Raguel distrust the PCs, especially if he made one of them a paladin?

No, they wouldn't have. But you have to remember that they don't know that you have a RPG quest to complete - just because they are "against the quest" doesn't make them "bad". Though, of course in your eyes as a player and my eyes as a QM, they probably do have to be defeated!

Raguel mistrusted the heroes because of the exact reason he said. You sparred a man (Belvin) who slaughtered a capitol city. That shattered his trust... you know, just a little. You also chose to go to help King Speros instead of protecting the Prince, which, again, was not really Raguel's cup of tea.

But yes, I'll post that political guidebook tonight!

[CMP]

Huzzah! I'm glad you read the others - and yes, this is exactly what we as the QMs were hoping for. Dastan was a true victory! So, this time around, we wanted a much more morally gray trilogy, especially the final act.

Exactly.

From a moral standpoint Dastan was easy. You had gray spots like Constance and Emeraldo, but you could pretty easily tell who the bad guys were. The dude with the red eyes and the black helmet and the Sword of Ancestral Hatred, namely. Not the case in Baltarok. Thus why everyone seems so defeated even though they succeeded.

[Waterbrick Down]

The last thing I really have to say about the quest was the railroading.

Ok sure you said we did have a choice (not saying that we didn't) but essentially it felt like there was a house on fire right in front of us. We could very well go down the road and fill up buckets from a tap but you'd be stupid to do that if there is a firetruck right there with a high pressure hose waiting to be used. We were thrown into Baltarok (with what I gather from IC conversations with other questees) with less information about what was going on than anyone else given only a brief overview. I have no problem with this, it felt real with a quick pace happening and the feeling of a time limit as the fate of the high kingdoms were at stake. There was a heavy load on our backs and this helped make the world more realistic. However with our lack of information though we had no choice but to priorities the existence of Grishnod who from our information was the only means to get Valentino back (and even then it happened a different way than originally expected). When General Mint came along wanting Grishnod, with no fall back plan to get Valentino otherwise it felt almost forced to protect him at this time. Maybe we could've used the same strategy as when we broke Grishnod out for Valentino however given the place we would do it I have the feeling it would be just about impossible (not to mention what effect this could have on political relations with Valentino broken out rather than gotten through with 'legitimate means'). We eventually tried to trade Valentino for Grishnod but that went down the toilet. At this point I believe every Quest 90er (with the exception of Baradok who didn't care in the first place [not that I blame him, really he was making more sense than anyone else but the other heroes and characters would've wanted to do the job despite not being as advertised]) was stumped. With no idea of what to do next Grishnod pulls out the trial of the three circles. This was almost too good to be true and at this point felt more of something that happened for the sake of the plot. Or Tv Troupes I could find (and luckily not closed the tab for from my last attempt), more of a But Thou Must or Follow the Plotted Line. Essentially Dreyrugr actually would've preferred Bastala as the head of the clan because her argument made a lot more sense than Grishnods but Dreyrugr supported Grishnod only to get Valentino, which as discussed earlier almost left us in the dark for what to do. Although Grishnod did grow and seems to actually be mulling the whole ordeal over in his mind trying to get the best balance between tradition and advancement which Dreyrugr would support more than Bastala but he didn't know that part originally. The rest is history.

To some degree limited information was intentional. Unlike the representatives from the Orcs or the Kingdoms, the circus worked on the same knowledge level as the common people, mostly hear say, a little rumor, some history, and a lot of assumptions. Grishnod could have provided you with more info on Baltarok if you had interrogated him, but aside from that, things were supposed to be kept in the dark. The circus's main priority was to get the job accomplished and let the armies and the politicians deal with everything else (granted they got caught in the middle of it all anyways ). Quest 90 is really the glue that ties 88 and 89 together, it triggers the events that kick everything off and provides for one of the solutions of the entire situation with the bridge (i.e. bringing the reasonable Valentino back to the Kingdoms). The trading of Valentino for Grishnod dead end was also intentional, though I'll admit you hit that wall harder than I had expected. We didn't want you trading Valentino for Grishnod and just skipping your way home across the bridge, too easy and not as climatic. Hence we laid things out as to why Bastala wasn't interested in having Grishnod back (even though she was behind getting rid of him). The heroes could have tried to break Valentino out, it would have been more difficult and would have probably added to the already growing tension, but it would have been possible. Since no one came to the realization that putting Grishnod back in power, I kind of had to force things along. The trials were also intended since apart from a coup (which was possible) there's wasn't many ways to get Grishnod back in charge unless you had done a lot of digging and could expose Bastala's treachery. Bastala has her head in the right place but her means were very anti-traditional, hence I'm glad she ended up helping to restore the other burned capitol instead. Grishnod will take some time to come around, he's still old-school but not a fanatic like some of the other clans. Again you're right that the railroading could have been a little better presented which is something I'll have to work on. I'm not a fan of it in the first place, but like I said it was somewhat of a necessity to keep everyone on schedule with the other quests. Thanks for all the input. I'll agree that Dreyrugr was much more active in this quest than his previous ones, I was just hoping to get a little more out of him. Baby steps I guess.

This was a challenge. We actually had it so that the heroes of 90 couldn't complete their goal until after the bridge battle, but then somehow that changed.

Part of that had to do with the quest 90 heroes thinking their quest was to escort the circus as opposed to bringing back Valentino, a mistake on my part for not making it more clear. The circus was hired to return Valentino, the circus hired Heroica to return Valentino, but due to the quest pitch not many people seemed to like being saddled with that responsibility, the even wanted more gold because it wasn't in the "job description". When are heroes going to understand that WBD quest pitches are never as they seem. Edited May 21, 2014 by Waterbrick Down

[JimBee]

Before I talk about Baltarok more, I'd actually like to comment on this, because my thoughts have changed on this significantly since I started hosting quests!

I agree with Scuba: I think you should have the specials and immunities thought out before you pick players - this allows for the heroes to benefit from their builds! If I designed enemies around Guts, for example, after I knew he was on a quest, I might slap "immune to ice" on quite a few foes so lifestealer wouldn't work, and might not have any of my enemies deal "30 lightning-damage" because Guts is immune to that. It's too tempting, I feel, to add those things once you know the heroes you'll be hosting, so I ALWAYS come up with those before hand so as not to punish the heroes for their builds.

The health/power, however, should come once you know the heroes you'll be hosting (I used to think this should come before hand too, but I have been taught that I'm totally wrong on that front).

I agree with this 100%. It's been a while since I hosted a quest, but if I ever get around to doing it again I'll be keeping this in mind.

[Flipz]

I actually disagree slightly. Instead of tweaking your enemy builds to make the Heroes' strategies fruitless, why not throw in a few enemies that make that particular Hero useful against them? For example, you host a Quest and know that a few of your Heroes often use Winged Sandals; when you're balancing battles, why not throw in enemy Special that uses Bound or Slowed, assuming it makes sense for that enemy? (Not a perfect example, of course, but it gets the idea across--once in a while, let the Heroes feel like the work and cash they put into their gear was a worthwhile investment.)

Speaking of effect-based Specials, those really seem to drop by the wayside at higher levels, don't they? Maybe that's just me, though.

[Zepher]

By designing enemies blindly, heroes are able to benefit from their immunities.

EDIT: A recent example - in 88, the Bolivar battle featured enemies that could confuse their foes. That was decided before I looked at my heroes' immunities. Hoke and Benji, therefore, did benefit from their build, whereas the others did not.

Edited May 22, 2014 by Zepher

[Waterbrick Down]

I actually disagree slightly. Instead of tweaking your enemy builds to make the Heroes' strategies fruitless, why not throw in a few enemies that make that particular Hero useful against them? For example, you host a Quest and know that a few of your Heroes often use Winged Sandals; when you're balancing battles, why not throw in enemy Special that uses Bound or Slowed, assuming it makes sense for that enemy? (Not a perfect example, of course, but it gets the idea across--once in a while, let the Heroes feel like the work and cash they put into their gear was a worthwhile investment.)

Speaking of effect-based Specials, those really seem to drop by the wayside at higher levels, don't they? Maybe that's just me, though.

I get what your saying Flipz and it is doable that way, but I'm with Zepher about the temptation bit. Just wait till you run a quest, part of you will want heroes' builds to be beneficial and part of you will hate how complicated they can make things and from then on you'll always be trying to balance things out. Better to design an enemy and let happen what will happen.