Heroica RPG - Quest Masters' Lounge

[Palathadric]

I think it just depends on the quest, QM, etc. Sometimes starting with a fight can be the perfect start and at other times a role-playing start is fantastic.

For instance, #127 start was quite nice. We had time to get to know the NPCs, but it would have dragged out if we would have had nothing to do but role-play between being at the temple and getting captured, so the boat battle was a great filler.

[UsernameMDM]

Enjoyed reading 125! Great job as usual Sandy. That party! HA!

[Palathadric]

Yes, somehow I didn't think it would be too great at first, but it turned out rather excellently. I like how Sandy's quests always sound like they're going to be so relatively innocent, but turn out to be rather important.

[Flipz]

My thoughts on 125:

I really enjoyed this Quest. Heroica has been missing Ziegfried exploration recently, so getting to encounter the core family again was very much needed. I loved getting to learn the history of the Ziegfried clan, reassembling the story and hearing Lilly's reaction to it being one of the highlights of the Quest. I also like that Lilly, the Ziegfried who previously had by far the least amount of characterization, got an entire Quest to herself to flesh her out and bring her up to the level of Bluto and Morgan (leaving poor Merlyn now as the Ziegfried child most in need of screen time and development). I'm also pleased to see the ongoing Abraxas storyline touched on again after so long, though I do wish that more of the Heroes previously involved in it (*cough*Nyx*cough*Sylph*cough*) were still around to feel the aftershocks.

For my part, I'm also glad I got a chance to explore Arthur's Ziegfried heritage in a way that was natural and free-flowing--one of my big goals for Arthur from the early days has been to help him find a family he could belong to and truly call his own. There were times it seemed like he was going to assemble his own family unit from among the Heroes of Heroica, but between time, conflict, and lack of contact, almost all of that has seemed to wither, so I'm pleased that Sandy gave me the opportunity to develop an alternative path via the Ziegfrieds.

I really, truly, deeply enjoyed the battles on this Quest, the first time I've consistently done so since probably Quest 70. It wasn't a cakewalk (despite and as evidenced by me overusing my buffs), but at the same time it wasn't the over-exaggerated slogfest of gloom/Counter-The-Tank archetypes I've grown used to recently. The loot was amazing, perhaps even a little too generous in some ways (though that was somewhat offset by the better loot coming shortly after a particularly slow patch pacing-wise); while not always obvious, there's a lot of real gems among our haul.

That said, the Quest wasn't without its flaws. Firstly, I want to address something that K-Nut and I had numerous conversations/arguments about: the lack of enemies to resurrect into Althior's undead army. We quickly came to the conclusion after a couple of battles that said enemies were simply not going to show up, and that he had been provided with battle control over Lilly as a sort of replacement. Unfortunately, mechanically speaking Lilly and her Puppeteer class had a lot of issues, which ultimately made it so that having her attack was a very bad idea, which is unfortunate since it had a very interesting concept. The big problem here was the break chance on the toys; while I will agree 100% that it was needed to balance out the ability to cause guaranteed effects (and some very powerful ones at that), this ultimately led to us never using the things for fear of breaking them, and also not letting Lilly attack in case she rolled a SHIELD. Equestria fixed this significantly, but making one or two more toys that were weaker but impossible to break would have done a lot to make us more comfortable with using her. (Speaking of Equestria, though, her shop was amazing in terms of balancing ultimate item availability with limited supply and substantial price, and more opportunities like that need to show up elsewhere in Heroica. )

I also was, surprisingly, underwhelmed with the sets, something I never thought I'd say about something made by you. Granted, I didn't really notice it until just now (obviously this Quest didn't rely much on the pictures at all), but literally the only pictures that I can really, clearly recall are the image of the Manor in the beginning, the scene of us getting transported into Lilly's mind, and the scenes of the rearranged dollhouse that Fahrenheit & co. were in. Like I said, in this case it didn't affect much (and in fact probably helped the environment seem less concrete and more dreamlike), but something to be aware of.

Touching back on the battles and loot, the loot was definitely weighted towards the latter half of the Quest, which was at times slightly problematic. It was a minor issue to be sure, but an issue nonetheless.

The puzzles. I loved them, but they were so damn hard. Part of it, I think, was how completely non-hand-holdy you were with us on them (which is a good thing! we're just spoiled by all the teasy hinty railroders like me ), but I think more of it was just bad luck with the players you got. K-Nut's always active with these things, but he doesn't always say anything about it in-thread; Masked was basically MIA for like two-thirds of the Quest, and I was undergoing a slow and painful process of losing interest and enjoyment in Heroica. These puzzles stopped us in our tracks when they shouldn't have, so I'd really like to see you give this approach another shot with a more active and present party (say #130 perhaps? #waroftheanagrams ).

There were also a few moments during the Quest in which I was worried whether or not Lilly would get enough characterization, though you answered them in spades by the end without me saying anything. Still, there were some times in which it would have been nice to just chat with Lilly while we did stuff, particularly when Althior and Alexis were being less than talkative.

I think ultimately, that's where most of the dissatisfaction I had on this Quest came from: our party, mostly myself. Arthur was all over the place here, in part I think because of my desire to shelf him, and in part because of my own unstable state at present. More disappointingly, though, we all signed into this with the expectation of more banter and interactions among the three of us, but aside from a teensy bit near the beginning and end, it never really materialized. Althior and Arthur had some nice moments, but for the most part they naturally sort of just stayed away from each other to prevent a fight, with all of their interactions being a bit chilled. K-Nut, you were probably the most active member of the party, but not very much of that activity translated directly into posts--I wanted to see more of Althior's reactions to the situations, and even more windows into his inner thoughts. That said, you did carry the Quest more than once when both Masked and I slipped up.

Speaking of Masked, to be blunt: Masked, your absenteeism killed big chunks of this Quest for me, and it really bums me out. Early on, Althior and Alexis sort of gravitated more toward each other than toward Arthur--which was great, actually, even though it left Arthur as the odd man out. But shortly thereafter--about the time of the bears puzzle, I'd say--Alexis just sort of faded out. When you participated, it often felt less like you were interacting with us and more like you were reacting to us, which is very much not ideal. I know you can give us more than that, which makes it all the more disappointing that we got so little out of you other than "repeat".

Of course, the statement "I know you can give us more than that" applies to me, too. I was not happy with my own level of participation throughout this Quest, and I apologize for that. Hopefully a nice, long break will help me recover and maybe regain some of my interest in the game, but if not, at least I can say that Quest 125 sent me and Arthur out on a high note, and a very, very high one at that.

[Asphalt]

I am working on building set pieces for a quest I would like to host. My problem is my brick selection is limited and many of them came from "not Lego" source. Is it acceptable to use such bricks in a build?

[Sandy]

For my part, I'm also glad I got a chance to explore Arthur's Ziegfried heritage in a way that was natural and free-flowing--one of my big goals for Arthur from the early days has been to help him find a family he could belong to and truly call his own. There were times it seemed like he was going to assemble his own family unit from among the Heroes of Heroica, but between time, conflict, and lack of contact, almost all of that has seemed to wither, so I'm pleased that Sandy gave me the opportunity to develop an alternative path via the Ziegfrieds.

I'm sad to see Arthur retire (at least for the time being), so I definitely wanted him on this quest to give him a proper send-off. While Arthur wasn't welcomed to the Ziegfried with exactly open arms, he now has at least some friends there.

I really, truly, deeply enjoyed the battles on this Quest, the first time I've consistently done so since probably Quest 70. It wasn't a cakewalk (despite and as evidenced by me overusing my buffs), but at the same time it wasn't the over-exaggerated slogfest of gloom/Counter-The-Tank archetypes I've grown used to recently. The loot was amazing, perhaps even a little too generous in some ways (though that was somewhat offset by the better loot coming shortly after a particularly slow patch pacing-wise); while not always obvious, there's a lot of real gems among our haul.

That said, the Quest wasn't without its flaws. Firstly, I want to address something that K-Nut and I had numerous conversations/arguments about: the lack of enemies to resurrect into Althior's undead army. We quickly came to the conclusion after a couple of battles that said enemies were simply not going to show up, and that he had been provided with battle control over Lilly as a sort of replacement. Unfortunately, mechanically speaking Lilly and her Puppeteer class had a lot of issues, which ultimately made it so that having her attack was a very bad idea, which is unfortunate since it had a very interesting concept. The big problem here was the break chance on the toys; while I will agree 100% that it was needed to balance out the ability to cause guaranteed effects (and some very powerful ones at that), this ultimately led to us never using the things for fear of breaking them, and also not letting Lilly attack in case she rolled a SHIELD. Equestria fixed this significantly, but making one or two more toys that were weaker but impossible to break would have done a lot to make us more comfortable with using her.

I put a lot of thought into the battles, and actually planned them as an entity. I totally abused Althior's incapability to raise undead until the last battle, so that you would be forced to use Lilly and her toys. Of course you found a way around it with Arthur's Lens, allowing you to be stingy with the toys.

I liked the Puppeteer class myself, and it really worked in the context of this quest, but it will definitely stay as NPC-exclusive. I am glad to hear you were challenged, by both the battles and the puzzles. I felt there was a good balance of both in this quest, since there wasn't much to explore.

I also was, surprisingly, underwhelmed with the sets, something I never thought I'd say about something made by you. Granted, I didn't really notice it until just now (obviously this Quest didn't rely much on the pictures at all), but literally the only pictures that I can really, clearly recall are the image of the Manor in the beginning, the scene of us getting transported into Lilly's mind, and the scenes of the rearranged dollhouse that Fahrenheit & co. were in. Like I said, in this case it didn't affect much (and in fact probably helped the environment seem less concrete and more dreamlike), but something to be aware of.

I think that stems from the fact that the Dollhouse was one, big MOC, and it proved to be really hard to photograph because of the enclosed spaces. That's why I snapped some final shots of it to show it's full glory before I tore it down for the final scene.

I think ultimately, that's where most of the dissatisfaction I had on this Quest came from: our party, mostly myself.

On the other hand I wish all of you had been more active during the quest - I got the feeling that neither Alexis nor Masked Builder really cared about being there in the first place - but on the hand there were phases I was really busy myself, so it was nice to get some breathers knowing that you three weren't breathing on my neck for an update every 24 hours.

But despite of all that, thank you for being there and allowing me to expand upon the Ziegfried storyline with the people that are tied to it the most.

I am working on building set pieces for a quest I would like to host. My problem is my brick selection is limited and many of them came from "not Lego" source. Is it acceptable to use such bricks in a build?

I would definitely discourage you from using them. Unless you want to make your players flee in shock and vomiting.

[K-Nut]

Lots of what I have to say echoes that of Flipz. I really enjoyed being on this quest. Althior has always been heavily involved with the Ziegfried story arch, and it was nice to see that story progress with him to witness it.

I think the most impressive part of the quest was the puzzles. The Tea Party was beyond difficult, but I think the rest of your puzzles were fair. I think I can speak for everyone when I say that it was clear how much work you put into them, and it's greatly appreciated. Contrary to popular belief, I did work on them behind the scenes, but didn't often get anything substantial enough to post.

I'll definitely re enforce Flipz's point: the lack of undead. The entire draw to the Necromancer is their undead army, and taking that away takes away a huge part of the playing experience. I can understand a quest with multiple non-raisable enemies, but to delete them entirely until the very end of the quest just doesn't work. There's so many parts of the class that don't work without undead: the SHIELD skill, undead sacrifice, critical hit... Trying to replace that aspect with the toys was admirable, but we were too afraid to use them, plus that it still didn't transfer to Althiors rolls.

Unlike Flipz, however, I really did enjoy the sets. They all looked basic enough to be a child's dollhouse, but they still were packed full of detail. I did like the last set, too. It may not have had the same feel of the scene you were trying to create, but it was the best you could do with LEGO bricks.

As for the party, I would say that it did have its flaws. I thoroughly enjoyed the beginning banter in the quest, but it did sizzle out after that. For me, the party dynamic never really clicked (which was problem for me in phases of 100 as well). Part of this may have been because of Masked's absence, but even between me and Arthur, the relationship never seemed concrete. If Alexis had been around more, I feel like she and Althior could have established more of a relationship with gangin up on Arthur, but it just didn't happen.

That also being said, I did enjoy playing with Athur on this quest. Arthur has always been an interesting character for Althior. He's one of the few people that the Necromancer has been truly human with. Alexis falls into that category, but she's grown so amoral it doesn't challenge Althior that much. Arthur, however, is a different case. He and Althior have been through so much of the same experiences, Althior sees him as a reflection of himself. I think that Althior hates that Arthur is "naive", but there's till parts of Arthur Althior wants to become.

Overall, the quest had flaws, but was still very good. Thanks, Sandy!

[Sandy]

I can understand a quest with multiple non-raisable enemies, but to delete them entirely until the very end of the quest just doesn't work.

From a QM's perspective it worked wonderfully! But my point wasn't to undermine your strategy, only to show everyone that the Necromancer class is not without it's weaknesses. Besides, the Puppeteer class was designed before you even signed into the quest, so it was in no way a personal agenda or anything like that.

You still steamrolled through the battles quickly enough, so was there really a problem? The Necromancer's army is designed to take on large hordes of enemies - essentially turning their numbers against them - but the constraints of this quest really didn't allow that, save for the final battle. And had I allowed you some undead minions, you wouldn't have used Lilly even the amount you did now, would you?

[Masked Builder]

I will agree that I did not participate as much as I should have. And I am sorry for that. Between school, my other hobbies, and work, most days I wouldn't want to come home and think. I did honestly try on the bear puzzle; all of us tried to work together on that. But anagrams are not my thing at all; I'd rather have an integral. When I play dungeons and dragons in person, puzzles have to be my favorite part, since I can rapid fire questions at the DM, these weren't quite the same style puzzles but I still should have participated more. I think a good bit of my personality rubs off on Alexis too, I'm mostly a quite guy who just prefers to watch from the background and make the occasional witty comment. I think it may be time for a break for me too.

I did have fun on the quest Sandy and as usual I think you did a great job telling the story. I wasn't originally sure about the party, but it ended up being rather fun, I wish I had been more active so I could have explored it more. But I'm also not great at arguing points all night.

[Asphalt]

Looking to design a possible shield. In your opinion as a QM and a Player which balances good effect with disruption to the game mechanics best.

Edit

Got it, changes made and adjusted.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Asphalt

[Sandy]

Looking to design a possible shield. In your opinion as a QM and a Player which balances good effect with disruption to the game mechanics best.

Like I replied in the PM, that sort of items are not good for the balance of this game - I've come to experience it first-hand.

[Purpearljellyblob]

Quest #122

Thank you for the quest, Kinto! I had a blast Quest wise, I thought it was good that you brought in Sorsha and a sneak peak to Hoogan and the Sheep village. It was fun interacting with the NPCs, would be better if you took someone who knew Sorsha before hand, would love to see how that turn out. Especially when the sheep mentioned the city boy, red haired Sorcerer, I felt perhaps there's some lost interaction there, since no one knew who he was. Even if Purpearl was there, there's a chance that it will be missed unless it was translated. The introduction of outer space aliens was interesting as well, an aspect that is new to all of us in Heroica. Somehow as a player I felt there's so much potential for several sequelaes, so much unexplored lore to dip into. Why the sheep? Where are they from? What's actually out there in space? Will they return in peace or revenge? Have they mingled into Olegaia itself and disguised themselves as frogmen? And lastly, is there a greater plot? Of course, I had intentions for Purpearl to sit Kaz down for a cuppa and have a chat, but that didn't happen of course. But I'm happy how the way it turned out, and if there's a sequelae to it, I will certainly be interested. Overall I thought that the battles were interesting and it certainly felt like Purpearl has taken a step forward into what she wants to do in the future. Lastly, thank you for bringing Purpearl along tö this out of this world experience and I enjoyed it.

[Asphalt]

What website or program do you guys use to make the mini icons for enemies and characters?

[KotZ]

What website or program do you guys use to make the mini icons for enemies and characters?

I use photoshop to crop and all, but GIMP is a good free program that does the same thing.

[Waterbrick Down]

Flickr resizes everything for you, paint & gimp both work as well. There's a few websites that'll do it for free as well.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Waterbrick Down

[Palathadric]

What image hosting site do most QMs use? I know quite a number of you use Flickr. Does anyone still use Brickshelf or is it too unstable?

[Asphalt]

I started a free forum with hosting capabilities to keep everything archived on.

[KotZ]

What image hosting site do most QMs use? I know quite a number of you use Flickr. Does anyone still use Brickshelf or is it too unstable?

I do. Flickr's layout confuses me for some reason and something about it hurts my eyes, not exactly sure what though.

[Sandy]

What image hosting site do most QMs use? I know quite a number of you use Flickr. Does anyone still use Brickshelf or is it too unstable?

I use Photobucket, and pay for the full version so I have all the space I need for my pictures. I have thousands of pics in Heroica folders alone... :blushed:

[Waterbrick Down]

I used Brickshelf for awhile, but I'm lazy and don't like resizing my own pictures, so I'm now on Flickr.

[CMP]

I used Brickshelf for awhile, but I'm lazy and don't like resizing my own pictures, so I'm now on Flickr.

Same here. I crop a square out of my image on paint, copy paste into MS Word to brighten it and add a border, copy paste back into paint, upload to Flickr, let them get it down to the right size.

Edited April 10, 2015 by CallMePie

[StickFig]

Quest #122

Had a great time on this one - I do appreciate a straightforward, "kill-the-bad-guys, save-the-town," adventure! I thought the sheep people were a good view of the "normal" people of Eubric - the ones not vying directly for power in the big city. The battles were quirky, and while the finale seemed difficult a first glance, it proved pretty straightforward. Honestly the whole quest proved just a little too simple, which would not have been a bad thing if we hadn't moved so slowly. To illustrate what I mean, Quest #122 generated 12 pages in 3.5 months - less than 4 pages per month. By comparison, Quest #102 (the previous quest Matthias went on) was 48 pages in 5.5 months - about 9 pages per month.

Anyway, not much else to say - thanks for a fun diversion and an escape from a fields run that was proving less than interesting.

Siercon:

I feel like Siercon is ...just a mage. I don't know anything about his motivations, or background, or thought processes, or anything. The most interesting thing about Siercon is his incorporeal form, which for some reason never seems to come up or get remarked on. He seems almost like a background NPC. Part of that could be that the quest was very straightforward and didn't demand a ton of character engagement.

Purpearl:

Purpearl seemed a lot more balanced, mentally, than in #102; taking to her role as a diplomatic knight pretty well.

Lind:

I think my comments on The Grey Foxer have already been said elsewhere and by other players; I won't belabor them here.

Thanks to Kintobor!

P.S. - As always I'm struggling with Matthias, and I'd appreciate whatever criticisms are out there!

[Asphalt]

QM question: When your quest sets are physical builds, do you photograph every possible encounter ahead of time and then retake ones that might need to be changed due to happenings in the game? Or do you photograph each encounter as the players progress?

[Sandy]

QM question: When your quest sets are physical builds, do you photograph every possible encounter ahead of time and then retake ones that might need to be changed due to happenings in the game? Or do you photograph each encounter as the players progress?

It varies for me. Sometimes I have everything built in advance, sometimes I build and take photos as the quest advances. I highly recommend the first method, since it makes hosting much less stressful.

[Khorne]

Definitely make sure you have plenty of photos of all your builds and scenarios/encounters beforehand. Can't stress this enough! It'll save you A LOT of work and maybe even stress later on, when you're actually hosting the quest.

I made the mistake of only taking a handful of photos beforehand, thinking I'd manage and just make some photos along the road, but boy, was I wrong . If there's one main lesson I learned from hosting, this is the one: plan & prepare plenty. Seriously.