Zepher Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 I know people clammer for shorter quests. The main issue is that battles are by necessity longer at higher levels, due to balancing/giving everyone something to do. You want shorter quests, you want shorter battles, you want to wear fewer artifacts. Quote
Waterbrick Down Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 Unfortunately, the more PC's the longer the quests end up being as well. It takes twice as long for a party of six to make a decision than a party of three. Quote
Lind Whisperer Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 Quest 6: 9 days. How do you even exchange introductions in only nine days, let alone set up a single battle? Anyone planning on hosting a mid-level quest anytime soon? I'm starting to get Hall-claustrophobia... I know people clammer for shorter quests. The main issue is that battles are by necessity longer at higher levels, due to balancing/giving everyone something to do. You want shorter quests, you want shorter battles, you want to wear fewer artifacts. But if we don't wear the awesome gear, we don't get awesome drops! Quote
Flipz Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 I'd say a lot also has to do with the world being more filled out, meaning more time has to be spent dealing with the repercussions of previous Heroes' actions (and/or explaining them to the Heroes who come later down the line). There's also a higher standard of quality over time, so this tends to result in more work put into the setting and a corresponding amount of time exploring that space. Quote
Emjajoas Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 I've been working on trying to tie together another low-to-mid-level quest for the past little bit, but I've been taking it real slow after what happened last time . I'll see if I can't get that wrapped up if there's demand in the Hall, though. Quote
Palathadric Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 I've been working on trying to tie together another low-to-mid-level quest for the past little bit, but I've been taking it real slow after what happened last time . I'll see if I can't get that wrapped up if there's demand in the Hall, though. Last time you got every QMs dream party. Assemble us again! Quote
Endgame Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 Last time you got every QMs dream party. Assemble us again! Bunch of murderhobos. (Thank you, Flipz, for introducing that term.) Quote
Flipz Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 Just going to throw out there that, like any QM/GM/DM, I really value the relationship between me and my players--after all, it's the collaborative creation of a story that makes an RPG different from any other form of storytelling. One of the reasons I consider 118 to be a personal failure is that, by reason of the Shyamalan Twist, I had to not only withhold information from my players (which is normal for a QM), but I ended up having to actively lie to them, thus damaging that relationship and hampering our ability to collaborate on the story together. Like I said, just something that came to mind, not just from recent events but also because 118 was brought up to me a couple times recently and I've been looking back at it to see if there were any more lessons to be learned from it. In the meantime, I'm sure this topic is about to see a lot of use. Quote
swils Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 Regarding 135, Sandy seems too happy about it for it to just be a "screw everyone but palathadric, teehee" moment. Reserving judgment/reactions til we see what happens. Quote
Zepher Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 Me too. Even if it's just screwing everyone else, if Pretzel was the traitor from day one, then maybe the answer here is that he played his hand well. It's a bit like Mafia. We probably could have put it together. After all, who awoke the Crystal Titan? Quote
swils Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 Whoever it was, I need to thank them. Glorious exp and a shiny shield to boot! Always fight. Always! Haha Quote
Endgame Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 (edited) Me too. Even if it's just screwing everyone else, if Pretzel was the traitor from day one, then maybe the answer here is that he played his hand well. It's a bit like Mafia. We probably could have put it together. After all, who awoke the Crystal Titan? Thing is, though, did the 135 party ever do anything wrong, or been given any sort of indication? In Mafia, the Town is very much aware of the Scum's presence, and actively seeks to kill them, and vice versa. The host sets the game and watches it play out. Here, it's like the 135 party was losing a game they didn't even know they were playing. Edited September 4, 2015 by Endgame Quote
K-Nut Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 Thing is, though, did the 135 party ever do anything wrong, or been given any sort of indication? Not really. It's a problem I had in Quest #100 too; one hero should not go against the rest of their party. It sounds like Pretzel was given this role from the get go by the QM, which I guess is okay for Pala. I really don't think the role should've been there at all, though. Also, does that mean all the heroes with Wolfgang rep have a secret mindflayer implant? Quote
Endgame Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 Throlar went against them by choice, though, I don't think Palathadric went into this quest wanting to be the mole. Quote
Waterbrick Down Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 At this point I see it as similar to Quest 49, I'm willing to let it play out and see how Sandy intends to resolve it. I'm not one for players being pawns to advance a plot point, but if their actions really have had impact on the overall ending of the quest, then I am not too upset about it. Quote
K-Nut Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 Throlar went against them by choice, though, I don't think Palathadric went into this quest wanting to be the mole. That's what I was trying to say. I don't really approve of it by choice, and I especially don't approve if it was forced upon him. Having a character forced to do something against their goals for the progression of a greater plot doesn't sit well with me, IMO... Quote
Endgame Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 At this point I see it as similar to Quest 49, I'm willing to let it play out and see how Sandy intends to resolve it. I'm not one for players being pawns to advance a plot point, but if their actions really have had impact on the overall ending of the quest, then I am not too upset about it. 49ers were aware there was a murdered in their midst - it was an investigation. It was a known factor; it wasn't known that it was Haldor/ a party member, true, but it was a piece in play. Quote
Quarryman Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 Thing is, though, did the 135 party ever do anything wrong, or been given any sort of indication? In Mafia, the Town is very much aware of the Scum's presence, and actively seeks to kill them, and vice versa. The host sets the game and watches it play out. Here, it's like the 135 party was losing a game they didn't even know they were playing. I dare say we didn't get any information that there could be traitors among us, and I've read through the whole quest today. Quote
Flipz Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 I really don't think the role should've been there at all, though. I wouldn't go that far. Foreshadow it, make it clear there's a traitor in the party--and give it from a credible source--and then watch your party tear itself apart from paranoia. Alternatively, better yet give all of the party members secret goals and watch them cause all kinds of problems for each other as they try to complete their mission without telling anyone else (and thus fail their personal mission). And note that the secret missions don't necessarily have to be different--imagine how awesome 135 would have been if everyone was a traitor and hsd no idea the others were, too! (...Now that I think of it, that kind of sounds like an awesome Mafia setup. ) Quote
K-Nut Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 I dare say we didn't get any information that there could be traitors among us, and I've read through the whole quest today. I think the only sign would've been the ringing of the bell, but I don't really think that was a sign... Quote
Waterbrick Down Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 I dare say we didn't get any information that there could be traitors among us, and I've read through the whole quest today. If Pala's been playing a traitor all quest then that's just good gameplay on his part. If he was doing this of his whole volition would we criticize him? Quote
K-Nut Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 I wouldn't go that far. Foreshadow it, make it clear there's a traitor in the party--and give it from a credible source--and then watch your party tear itself apart from paranoia. If it's what their character would do, then sure. But having someone be mid-controlled doesn't fly with me... (...Now that I think of it, that kind of sounds like an awesome Mafia setup. ) Wasn't there Prison Break Mafia where everyone was scum? If Pala's been playing a traitor all quest then that's just good gameplay on his part. If he was doing this of his whole volition would we criticize him? I really don't think it's Pala's fault at all. Just having that role in the first place... Quote
Endgame Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 I think the only sign would've been the ringing of the bell, but I don't really think that was a sign... Especially since Baba had gone on record that she had agents everywhere + the rocklings right near by. There was no reason to assume Pretzel did it. If Pala's been playing a traitor all quest then that's just good gameplay on his part. If he was doing this of his whole volition would we criticize him? Good gameplay that he didn't get caught, sure. No indication that it was a possibility? Potentially a design flaw. Quote
Waterbrick Down Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 If it's what their character would do, then sure. But having someone be mid-controlled doesn't fly with me... I agree, the only way I would do it is if Pala agreed to it, otherwise you totally remove agency of a player. It's understandable if you're really aiming for a mind controlled individual, but it's still someone else's time that they've invested to play in a quest. I have faith in Sandy though that he didn't go so far as to completely hijack Pretzel without permission for the whole quest. Quote
Duvors Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 I swear, it's starting to look as if Sandy is just railroading the entire game. Quote
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