And this is one think that bothers me about weapons in Heroica, but it makes balancing easier. All weapons are basically equal strength. A spear, sword, dagger, and pickaxe can all in theory do the same damage. A dagger in some cases can down a huge orge while a sword with a far lesser WP might take thousands of hits. The point is, it really doesn't matter terribly what type of weapons people can wield.

@Brickdoctor: The Skirmisher look much better and I agree that you should amp up the shield roll a bit, the expert classes are going to be somewhat over-powered in some areas, but also somewhat useless in others, if my understanding is correct from Sandy's intentions, which is why all of this may be irrelevant when we finally get a look at them, but where's the fun in that. Keep the name Skirmisher, this is a made up world not everything has to match its real world counter-part, same goes for the special. Keep the spear/halberd requirement only, maybe add great swords but I think that is enough, also where did the loyalty aspect go, that was my favorite part. I too would like to know about that blank class sheet as it would be so useful for those of us who haven't invested hundreds of dollars for photoshop.

@Flipz: The engineer is also looking much better as far as being streamlined. I know you like the "Memory Bank" skill, but it seems to me, that it makes the Construct behave like an ordinary base class that happens to have a personal cleric (sorry not too exciting to me). I would suggest either replacing "miss" with "Memory Bank" and creating a new Shield roll for the Construct, or at least replacing "miss" with something more exciting that sets iapartrt from just being a metallic version of a base class and really makes it more like a robot/machine/summon.

Edited May 30, 201212 yr by Waterbrick Down

  On 5/30/2012 at 1:28 AM, Waterbrick Down said:

@Flipz: The engineer is also looking much better as far as being streamlined. I know you like the "Memory Bank" skill, but it seems to me, that it makes the Construct behave like an ordinary base class that happens to have a personal cleric (sorry not too exciting to me). I would suggest either replacing "miss" with "Memory Bank" and creating a new Shield roll for the Construct, or at least replacing "miss" with something more exciting that sets iapartrt from just being a metallic version of a base class and really makes it more like a robot/machine/summon.

I had Memory Bank in place of Miss to start, but Shield was being a pain. I'll try and give Electromagnet another shot, tho.

EDIT: Also, @ Doc: :poke:

Edited May 30, 201212 yr by Flipz

  On 5/30/2012 at 1:28 AM, Waterbrick Down said:

@Brickdoctor: The Skirmisher look much better and I agree that you should amp up the shield roll a bit, the expert classes are going to be somewhat over-powered in some areas, but also somewhat useless in others, if my understanding is correct from Sandy's intentions, which is why all of this may be irrelevant when we finally get a look at them, but where's the fun in that. Keep the name Skirmisher, this is a made up world not everything has to match its real world counter-part, same goes for the special. Keep the spear/halberd requirement only, maybe add great swords but I think that is enough, also where did the loyalty aspect go, that was my favorite part. I too would like to know about that blank class sheet as it would be so useful for those of us who haven't invested hundreds of dollars for photoshop.

Yeah, I've spent an hour or so looking at Wikipedia, and I've come to the conclusion that this class name and Special name are the most awesome-sounding, reasonably appropriate names.

I can add Loyalty back in, but I nerfed the offensive power to make it less like Infiltrator, and that was a positive, so I had to nerf one of the negative aspects, too, to keep the class balanced. I couldn't remove the other half, since if you have to obey the Party Leader but you are the Party Leader, then the trait truly becomes pointless.

I actually do want to allow the use of swords, just to make it easier for players to switch over to the class.

I made the blank sheet from one of the existing class sheets. (Knight, I think it was) Blending options and Gaussian Blurs are my friend. I just did it for his quick pitch; Sandy probably has a better copy that doesn't have some of the detail removed as a result of all the blurring.

  On 5/30/2012 at 1:56 AM, Brickdoctor said:

Yeah, I've spent an hour or so looking at Wikipedia, and I've come to the conclusion that this class name and Special name are the most awesome-sounding, reasonably appropriate names.

I can add Loyalty back in, but I nerfed the offensive power to make it less like Infiltrator, and that was a positive, so I had to nerf one of the negative aspects, too, to keep the class balanced. I couldn't remove the other half, since if you have to obey the Party Leader but you are the Party Leader, then the trait truly becomes pointless.

I actually do want to allow the use of swords, just to make it easier for players to switch over to the class.

I made the blank sheet from one of the existing class sheets. (Knight, I think it was) Blending options and Gaussian Blurs are my friend. I just did it for his quick pitch; Sandy probably has a better copy that doesn't have some of the detail removed as a result of all the blurring.

I do like the idea of Loyalty, even though it would discourage Rogue-like characters from switching over (what Rogue would choose a class that restricts their autonomy?). I also like Pie's suggestion that you automatically become second-in-command, though.

Also: x31

  On 5/29/2012 at 11:48 PM, Flipz said:

*Big friggin' snip*

That all sounds pretty good. But what's stopping people from just trying out every advanced class and arming their Construct with any possible weapon? I still don't know about the whole 'fitting weapons' thing, maybe they could just use any weapon, but no shields?

  On 5/30/2012 at 2:44 AM, CallMePie said:

That all sounds pretty good. But what's stopping people from just trying out every advanced class and arming their Construct with any possible weapon? I still don't know about the whole 'fitting weapons' thing, maybe they could just use any weapon, but no shields?

Only your last held class counts as your "last class". That should probably be specified. Your Basic class, of course, can't be changed.

I suppose, but I still think having to have a weapon forged specifically for a construct is needlessly complicated. You'd already have to purchase dozens of Tonics for upkeep of your only means of combat, paying to arm it would be pretty annoying.

Edited May 30, 201212 yr by CallMePie

  On 5/30/2012 at 2:52 AM, CallMePie said:

I suppose, but I still think having to have a weapon forged specifically for a construct is needlessly complicated. You'd already have to purchase dozens of Tonics for upkeep of your only means of combat, paying to arm it would be pretty annoying.

Well, the first weapon would, obviously, be free.

Also keep in mind, at times, the healing wouldn't be needed, so long as the construct isn't severely damaged.

Besides, at that point the hero should have a number of weapons... at Level 30?

I like the updated Skirmisher. I would keep the name, and the name of the special sounds good too, for how it's described. Keep in mind that it is a fantasy game, so not all class-names directly fall back to their historic version, which is totally fine.

As for "using" swords, I say no: The basic idea for the class is that it uses polearms, which is in my opinion the very essence and what makes the class unique!

I would give it another Job trait, however, The infiltrator for example has three, (all positive ones), so I don't think it would be out of place to get one or two more, that could fit the class, and add to it's desirability.

Keep in mind that the level 30 classes are not supposed to be more powerful than the advanced classes, but on about the same level.

I also think the special is underpowered a bit, it is basically a weaker version of a Knight's Sentinel? Why don't you try to implement something that allows him to deal full damage from the back row or something like that. Or: make it last for more than 1 turn.

I don't have much time to comment these new suggestions right now, but I just want to add that expert classes can have up to three job traits.

Brickdoctor, a job class's "battle style" is just a summary of the six abilities listed below it. Your Skirmisher's "battle style" should be one of it's job traits, instead.

  On 5/30/2012 at 5:46 AM, Scubacarrot said:

Keep in mind that the level 30 classes are not supposed to be more powerful than the advanced classes, but on about the same level.

Well, at least my expert classes are more powerful than advanced classes, but only in a specialized field of expertise. The Minstrel is almost purely a supporting class, for example, while the Chi Monk concentrates on weaponless combat.

I think I'll post the classes up for public evaluation soon, just to give everyone a clear picture of what they're actually about.

  On 5/30/2012 at 5:55 AM, Sandy said:

Well, at least my expert classes are more powerful than advanced classes, but only in a specialized field of expertise. The Minstrel is almost purely a supporting class, for example, while the Chi Monk concentrates on weaponless combat.

Oh. I think I remember wrong, then. I thought you said they would be comparable at strength with the advanced classes, oh well.

  On 5/30/2012 at 5:55 AM, Sandy said:

Brickdoctor, a job class's "battle style" is just a summary of the six abilities listed below it. Your Skirmisher's "battle style" should be one of it's job traits, instead.

Okay, I'll change that.

Wow. You guys really bastardized the Engineer class.

Work on this one! :thumbup:

Harlot

*

Additional Health:

+X

*

Job Trait(s):

Promiscuous

- Harlots have their own form of Diplomacy.

Flee

(See Rogue)

*

Battle Style

: Seduction - Harlots prefer to play mind games with their opponents. Partial to whips & chains (Thothwick/Dyric

)

1. SHIELD:

Pleasure House

- The Harlot works her magic. All enemies receive a random negative effect from the list below.

2. KISS AND MAKE UP: The Harlot attacks the target with strength equal to two times her weapon power added to her level. Additionally, target is

enamored

with her for the next round.

3. HIT: The Harlot attacks the target with strength equal to her weapon power added to her level.

4. IT FEELS SO GOOD: The Harlot does her job so well the target’s mind goes numb. Enemy’s level is lowered by WP/2 rounded down.

5. MASOCHISM: The Harlot is struck by her opponent’s damage but revels in the pain so is

encouraged

for the next round.

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE: The Harlot is struck by its opponent’s special skill.

QM Note: Pleasure House Negative effects:

*

Poisoned

-

Don’t worry, it’ll clear up soon

.

*

Badly Poisoned

-

Better have a cleric look at that.

*

Hexed

-

I’ll do whatever you say.

*

Sealed

-

Shh, I won't tell your wife.

*

Fast Asleep

-

Another satisfied customer.

*

Weakened

-

I’m exhausted.

  On 5/30/2012 at 7:09 AM, Jebediahs said:

snip

Wow, just wow. Can't tell if you are serious, because it looks like good mechanics, actually

Monk Pretzel is so going to become a harlot.

  On 5/30/2012 at 7:09 AM, Jebediahs said:

*snip*

Hey, this will get Hinckley playing! He can reprise Harriet the Slut!

Actually, Harriet would be a PERFECT illustration image for this class--remind me tomorrow to send you the full version of the Harriet "icon" I have in the Theatre topic, so you can use it.

  On 5/30/2012 at 7:09 AM, Jebediahs said:

Wow. You guys really bastardized the Engineer class.

Work on this one! :thumbup:

Harlot

*

Additional Health:

+X

*

Job Trait(s):

Promiscuous

- Harlots have their own form of Diplomacy.

Flee

(See Rogue)

*

Battle Style

: Seduction - Harlots prefer to play mind games with their opponents. Partial to whips & chains (Thothwick/Dyric

)

1. SHIELD:

Pleasure House

- The Harlot works her magic. All enemies receive a random negative effect from the list below.

2. KISS AND MAKE UP: The Harlot attacks the target with strength equal to two times her weapon power added to her level. Additionally, target is

enamored

with her for the next round.

3. HIT: The Harlot attacks the target with strength equal to her weapon power added to her level.

4. IT FEELS SO GOOD: The Harlot does her job so well the target’s mind goes numb. Enemy’s level is lowered by WP/2 rounded down.

5. MASOCHISM: The Harlot is struck by her opponent’s damage but revels in the pain so is

encouraged

for the next round.

6. SPECIAL DAMAGE: The Harlot is struck by its opponent’s special skill.

QM Note: Pleasure House Negative effects:

*

Poisoned

-

Don’t worry, it’ll clear up soon

.

*

Badly Poisoned

-

Better have a cleric look at that.

*

Hexed

-

I’ll do whatever you say.

*

Sealed

-

Shh, I won't tell your wife.

*

Fast Asleep

-

Another satisfied customer.

*

Weakened

-

I’m exhausted.

I don't know which is more funny - the class, or the fact that it could actually work!

  On 5/30/2012 at 1:59 AM, Flipz said:

I do like the idea of Loyalty, even though it would discourage Rogue-like characters from switching over (what Rogue would choose a class that restricts their autonomy?).

Something I've wondered about: Can there be a Level 30 Class that does not require alliegence to one of the main Houses? Rogues likely wouldn't want to be tied to a House, but they would want a Level 30 Class.

  On 5/30/2012 at 7:09 AM, Jebediahs said:

*SNIP*

:roflmao: :roflmao:

This must become a real class!

  On 5/30/2012 at 4:24 PM, LEGOman273 said:

Something I've wondered about: Can there be a Level 30 Class that does not require alliegence to one of the main Houses? Rogues likely wouldn't want to be tied to a House, but they would want a Level 30 Class.

Thats the basic idea of the level 30 classes created by the QM's other than Sandy, yes.

Firstly, I would like to suggest “Principe” for Doc’s class, skirmisher just sounds like too light an infantry unit for the Lion Knights.

Now onto some classes of my own:

Beast Rider (permanently hastened):1. Tramples Target: target receives damage and is afflicted with either the stunned effect or cannot do damage for the next three turns.

2. Rear Up: beast rises up and kicks opponent, WP + (Level x2)

3. Beast Special: beast uses his special ability. Depends on the beast bought.

4. Hit: opponent is struck with normal damage e.g.: WP + Level

5. Damage: receives damage equal to the enemy’s level. There is a half chance of hitting the beast. if the beast is hit twice in a battle, it is KO’ed and the rider loses half his health.

6. Special Damage: receives enemy’s special damage. Has half chance of hitting the beast.

Unit can wield: spear, sword, shield, etc.

Beast armour can be purchased at the marketplace or won on quests (increases number of hits needed to fell beast)

Arcani:

1. Demonic Scream: Causes target to flee battle. Encourages allies (?)

2. Double Hit: Strikes target with two weapons from his inventory.

3. Hit

4. Counter Strike: leaps back, dodging opponents blow enabling him to leap forward next turn. Is very lucky next turn (or cannot take damage)

5. Damage: 1/3 chance of receiving full damage, 1/3 chance of receiving half damage, and 1/3 chance of receiving no damage.

6. Special Damage: 1/3 chance of receiving full damage, 1/3 chance of receiving half damage, and 1/3 chance of receiving no damage from enemy’s special

Unit can wield: dagger, spear, helmet, breastplate, etc

And now for my personal favourite:

Pretzelian Monk (Only available for those whose original name was “Monk Pretzel”.

1. Convert: gives target confused effect until targeted. Will pay his tithe=level in gold to you every turn.

If targeting undead - Redemption: undead is redeemed and leaves his “undead body” (dies). Pays tribute of level x 5 to pay his way there.

2. Gives Speech: puts all enemies to sleep until targeted and encourages allies.

3. Heal all: heals all allies to full health and ether.

4. Tools from Cart Special: repairs each ally’s weapon not in use adding WP1 to each of them.

5. Holy War: is struck, but next turn causes everyone, both allies and enemies, to target his attacker.

6. Holy Indignation: drives fear into the hearts of each opponent. Uses each one’s power against each one respectively.

Edited May 30, 201212 yr by Palathadric

  On 5/30/2012 at 4:27 PM, Scubacarrot said:

Thats the basic idea of the level 30 classes created by the QM's other than Sandy, yes.

Sorry. By "Houses", I was referring to all groups (e.g. Lion Lnights, Wolfgang, Town Watch, etc.)

Basicly, I want a Level 30 Class that does not require me to swear alliegence to anyone other than myself. I think that there are other Rogues that would want the same thing.

  On 5/30/2012 at 4:56 PM, LEGOman273 said:

Sorry. By "Houses", I was referring to all groups (e.g. Lion Lnights, Wolfgang, Town Watch, etc.)

Basicly, I want a Level 30 Class that does not require me to swear alliegence to anyone other than myself. I think that there are other Rogues that would want the same thing.

The whole point of the Expert Classes is to reward allegiance to a faction.

  On 5/30/2012 at 4:56 PM, LEGOman273 said:

Sorry. By "Houses", I was referring to all groups (e.g. Lion Lnights, Wolfgang, Town Watch, etc.)

Basicly, I want a Level 30 Class that does not require me to swear alliegence to anyone other than myself. I think that there are other Rogues that would want the same thing.

Alright, I can see where you are coming from with that, but the Level 30 classes are rewards from quests, and are supposed to be limited for the amount of people that can use them. So there would need to be a way to earn it, so maybe you should think a way how that would work? And I don't think taking a faction's Expert classes equals swearing allegiance to them per se, but I can still see what you mean