Heroica RPG - Quest Masters' Lounge

[Cutcobra]

The loot was a bit low... 1.000 would be fair .

[Kintobor]

The loot was a bit low... 1.000 would be fair .

Oh shush you! Be on my next quest, they'll be better loot there!

I had the same problem with my first quest, but I was grateful for what I got! Today's generation simply expects loot to be given to them!

[Brickdoctor]

I don't think the loot should have been that high, anyways. It seemed (at least to me) to be a shorter quest with the opportunity for more loot in the extra two battles. It was for lower-Level players, and since they don't face the more difficult enemies, they usually don't get much loot in their earlier quests, which should be more focused on helping them get the hang of strategizing in battle, solving puzzles, and Leveling Up.

[Brickington]

The loot was a bit low... 1.000 would be fair .

I have to agree with doc, I was jealous that you were getting paid as much as you were. Not only was the actual quest reward a bit high, but the party found some great treasures during the quest. But that was a great first quest, Kintobor! Can't wait to see your next one!

[joeshmoe554]

So just to make sure I fully understand the operation of the Handy Briefcase I thought I would describe the behavior in a post here, so I could be corrected if I have anything wrong.

• The briefcase lets the player use 2 items in a round without being hastened.
  
• The player cannot use an item and attack in that round
  
• If the player has more than 1 turn in the round, the briefcase does not allow more items to be used.
  
• Scrolls are not considered items.
  
• An Alchemist could either use 2 items, or 1 item and an attack.
  

Does that about cover it, or have I gotten something wrong and/or left something out?

EDIT: Updated item 3 to be more inclusive, updated to not affect scrolls

Edited April 25, 2013 by joeshmoe554

[Brickdoctor]

I have to agree with doc, I was jealous that you were getting paid as much as you were. Not only was the actual quest reward a bit high, but the party found some great treasures during the quest. But that was a great first quest, Kintobor! Can't wait to see your next one!

I'm not saying that the reward was too high. I can see how that could be misread; it was poorly worded. I meant that I thought the loot was just right, and that beginning quests shouldn't have more loot than that.

[Scubacarrot]

So just to make sure I fully understand the operation of the Handy Briefcase I thought I would describe the behavior in a post here, so I could be corrected if I have anything wrong.

• The briefcase lets the player use 2 items in a round without being hastened.
  
• The player cannot use an item and attack in that round
  
• If the player is already hastened, he/she can still only use 2 items.
  
• Scrolls are considered items.
  
• An Alchemist could either use 2 items, or 1 item and an attack.
  

Does that about cover it, or have I gotten something wrong and/or left something out?

I think you should make it less complex. Also, you should definitely not consider scrolls as items in this capacity, as they are not consumed and would very much increase the power of scrolls. Perhaps you should either just say: 2 items, one turn, max one use per round, or make it on par with an Alchemist's Instant Items or an Infiltrator's Quick Fingers.

Oh sorry, I thought it was you who made the item that was clarifying it, nevermind.

[Palathadric]

I followed your Quest for the most part as well, Kintobor, and I really enjoyed reading it through it. Your characters are really fun. The players definitely were great as well. I'd say you did an awesome job. I think the loot was fine, and I disagree with Flare said. I don't think many people sign up for quests based on the expectations for loot they are going to get anyways. Cool!

Sums up everything I wanted to say quite well. Great job, Kintobor! The three skellies were awesome.

[Kintobor]

So just to make sure I fully understand the operation of the Handy Briefcase I thought I would describe the behavior in a post here, so I could be corrected if I have anything wrong.

• The briefcase lets the player use 2 items in a round without being hastened.
  
• The player cannot use an item and attack in that round
  
• If the player has more than 1 turn in the round, the briefcase does not allow more items to be used.
  
• Scrolls are considered items.
  
• An Alchemist could either use 2 items, or 1 item and an attack.
  

Does that about cover it, or have I gotten something wrong and/or left something out?

EDIT: Updated item 3 to be more inclusive

The only hiccup is that scrolls aren't considered items, their scrolls: a whole different can of worms. Other than that, everything looks right!

[JimBee]

Alright, so Quest 50, here it goes. Let me just preface this by saying it's all in the name of constructive criticism, even if I sound harsh it's nothing personal or meant to be offensive (although I can't stop you from being offended anyway ).

We (myself, Peppermint, Quarryman, Rumble Strike, and Darkdragon) ultimately decided to give up for several reasons. I speak mainly for myself, but we all had similar sentiments, and any other player of Quest 50 is welcome to say if they disagree with what I'm going to say in this post.

- First and foremost, we were bored, to put it bluntly. Five months fighting enemies in a systematic process really became a chore after a while. Even though the enemies were creative and well-designed, and the dungeon-like pagoda offered some choices with searching for loot and puzzles, what it ultimately came down to was fighting off enemy after enemy. It was sometimes fun to strategize against them, but even that got to be a pain, for other reasons which I'll state later. Sandy, I think that this was the biggest issue with Quest 50. Quest 15 had a similar dungeon-crawler concept and I think I (and perhaps others) mentioned that while creative and fun, a setting like Heroica (where people can only participate when they're online, unlike a video game where it's done all at once) doesn't allow for very extensive dungeon-crawlers.

- Building off of the last point, I felt that updates were too slow. I totally understand that you have a life outside of Heroica and EB Sandy, as we do, and I respect that. However, there were many periods in which there were no updates (sometimes three or four days at a time), and over the period of five months those delays really add up. I know you tried your best to update as much as possible, but if your planning on a very long quest like this one, make sure that you can update often. And even when there were regular updates, things moved slow because we could only do one thing at a time, usually. Overall, the long periods waiting really killed the fun. And I'll return to my point about dungeon-crawlers being unrealistic in this game for a moment - where in a video game it would take only a couple of minutes to fight a battle or search a room, it could take days or sometimes more than a week in this setting.

- Probably the least important point I have (and the one you had least control over) is about how realistic it was to continue. We had a total of five Phoenix Essences left between us at the end of the quest, and there were still all five difficult enemies standing in a room where we had a chance to miss our turn every round. That allowed for no mistakes, and I believe that the Essences would have been wasted. Even if we had beat the enemies in the White Room, how long could we expect to go on with only a few Essences? We still had about 35 enemies to go, and obviously they would've been even harder as we progressed. We also were out of ether and restorative consumables. I don't know how many enemies you would want dropping tonics and essences, but I thought that there should've been some sort of rest mechanism in the game, a way to succeed without relying on how many Essences we had left.

- One last point I have is about the story and the general set up. Again, it was boring because it just became battle after battle, with little story progression or opportunities to do anything but follow battle tactics. As Quarryman said in the R&D thread, it just took way too long to get to the point. Keep in mind that this is over the course of five plus months, so that's a very long time to wait for a quest to become something fun rather than just to complete it for the sake of reaching that goal (see the video that Flipz posted about extrinsic vs. intrinsic rewards).

That said, if we compare this quest to the Fields of Glory, we can also see how the structure was faulty (IMO). The Fields is purely for XP and loot in my eyes, which leaves little room for roleplaying or any sort of story to take place. That's how I felt the pagoda was, except unlike the Fields we could not rest or leave at anytime (except, you know, by failing). We missed out on a lot of things going on elsewhere in Heroica with new quests, characters, and interactions. Where other players have been developing their characters and gaining experience and reputation on their quests, we were stuck in a roleplay-less continuous battle. I felt that it was unfair that we had to miss out on that, and unfortunate that we never even finished.

Trust me, none of us liked the idea of giving up after so long, but it seemed like the best option to just call it quits.

So, those were the negatives that I saw in this quest. They're a lot, but I needed to let you know about them and hope we can all learn from it. There were some good positive aspects to the quest as well, with the challenging and creative enemies (I had a really good time trying to figure out the best way possible to take each battle on), awesome puzzles, and really nice loot. I'm really glad that we at least gained that even though we failed the quest. And all the pictures and MOCs were lovely as always.

So that's about it for now, I think. A good concept with an okay execution, it just doesn't work in the setting that we have. I'm sure that I missed a few things that I wanted to talk about, but maybe they'll come back to me as more people give their input.

[Zepher]

An outsider opinion, now that the floor has been opened up (I've been waiting for Sandy or a player).

Five months is too long for ANY quest, even if it has a huge story. It should be divided into littler pieces. Most of your quests are so short, this one was so long. I know for a fact I would have been bored. Besides the length, there wasn't really a story. Maybe they were getting to it, but like JimBee and Quarry said, just too long of a wait.

I actually kept up exceedingly well with Quest 50, as opposed to a some other quests. The rooms were beautiful, the enemies inventive. If there had been a story, it would have been superb.

I think too much loot was dropped. And too many unique items. Even over 5 months... that list they have in the Hall... no one else gets that many unique items in five months, not even with 5 one month long quests. I know the temptation, especially as the Game Master, but I just think it was too much. More "common" drops (consumables/gold) and less unique ones would have made me happy.

Those figures in the last shot looked awesome. And I wasn't kidding about being there next time if possible. It would be a lot of fun, especially after you restructure a bit.

The continuous battle was cool, just too long. Endgame kidnapped it and shortened it, and I think it paid off for him.

Cheers, Sandy! Live and learn! It was still a good quest, just far from YOUR BEST quest. :wub: As JimBee also said, I'm sure you know that any and all critiques come from a place of love.

And seriously, those character combos... I mean, for 108 of them, they looked awesome. I'd say I liked about 90% of the ones we saw, which is a ton all considered. The figures were awesome, and specials awesome, and challenges awesome.

[Flipz]

Well, I liked watching Q50, Sandy. I think in a lot of ways, it had many of the same advantages and disadvantages of Quest 53, the main difference being that Q50 was MUCH more open with its mechanics, meaning that it's a lot easier to analyze them.

Five months is too long for ANY quest, even if it has a huge story. It should be divided into littler pieces. Most of your quests are so short, this one was so long. I know for a fact I would have been bored. Besides the length, there wasn't really a story. Maybe they were getting to it, but like JimBee and Quarry said, just too long of a wait.

I actually kept up exceedingly well with Quest 50, as opposed to a some other quests. The rooms were beautiful, the enemies inventive. If there had been a story, it would have been superb.

I think too much loot was dropped. And too many unique items. Even over 5 months... that list they have in the Hall... no one else gets that many unique items in five months, not even with 5 one month long quests. I know the temptation, especially as the Game Master, but I just think it was too much. More "common" drops (consumables/gold) and less unique ones would have made me happy.

In short, yes, yes, no, and I'll tell you why.

- First and foremost, we were bored, to put it bluntly. Five months fighting enemies in a systematic process really became a chore after a while. Even though the enemies were creative and well-designed, and the dungeon-like pagoda offered some choices with searching for loot and puzzles, what it ultimately came down to was fighting off enemy after enemy. It was sometimes fun to strategize against them, but even that got to be a pain, for other reasons which I'll state later. Sandy, I think that this was the biggest issue with Quest 50. Quest 15 had a similar dungeon-crawler concept and I think I (and perhaps others) mentioned that while creative and fun, a setting like Heroica (where people can only participate when they're online, unlike a video game where it's done all at once) doesn't allow for very extensive dungeon-crawlers.

- Building off of the last point, I felt that updates were too slow. I totally understand that you have a life outside of Heroica and EB Sandy, as we do, and I respect that. However, there were many periods in which there were no updates (sometimes three or four days at a time), and over the period of five months those delays really add up. I know you tried your best to update as much as possible, but if your planning on a very long quest like this one, make sure that you can update often. And even when there were regular updates, things moved slow because we could only do one thing at a time, usually. Overall, the long periods waiting really killed the fun. And I'll return to my point about dungeon-crawlers being unrealistic in this game for a moment - where in a video game it would take only a couple of minutes to fight a battle or search a room, it could take days or sometimes more than a week in this setting.

I think this is an important notion; different QMs work with different Quests. QMs like Endgame and Brickdoctor do well with fairly long, sweeping Quests that take characters through significant portions of leveling and development, while QMs like you and Zepher do better with shorter Quests that are nonetheless tied in to a larger story. And of course, these are not the only types; CallMePie does extremely quick-moving Quests that nonetheless pack a lot of activity into a reasonably short time period, WBD does Quests that are light on mechanical content but offer a TON of room for roleplaying, etc. etc. etc.

Zeph, I hate to admit this, but some of the same things JimB pointed out here applied to 53 at times. Just something to think about as you plan your next Quests.

- Probably the least important point I have (and the one you had least control over) is about how realistic it was to continue. We had a total of five Phoenix Essences left between us at the end of the quest, and there were still all five difficult enemies standing in a room where we had a chance to miss our turn every round. That allowed for no mistakes, and I believe that the Essences would have been wasted. Even if we had beat the enemies in the White Room, how long could we expect to go on with only a few Essences? We still had about 35 enemies to go, and obviously they would've been even harder as we progressed. We also were out of ether and restorative consumables. I don't know how many enemies you would want dropping tonics and essences, but I thought that there should've been some sort of rest mechanism in the game, a way to succeed without relying on how many Essences we had left.

Not to single you out, but Zeph: This. So this on 53.

- One last point I have is about the story and the general set up. Again, it was boring because it just became battle after battle, with little story progression or opportunities to do anything but follow battle tactics. As Quarryman said in the R&D thread, it just took way too long to get to the point. Keep in mind that this is over the course of five plus months, so that's a very long time to wait for a quest to become something fun rather than just to complete it for the sake of reaching that goal (see the video that Flipz posted about extrinsic vs. intrinsic rewards).

That said, if we compare this quest to the Fields of Glory, we can also see how the structure was faulty (IMO). The Fields is purely for XP and loot in my eyes, which leaves little room for roleplaying or any sort of story to take place. That's how I felt the pagoda was, except unlike the Fields we could not rest or leave at anytime (except, you know, by failing). We missed out on a lot of things going on elsewhere in Heroica with new quests, characters, and interactions. Where other players have been developing their characters and gaining experience and reputation on their quests, we were stuck in a roleplay-less continuous battle. I felt that it was unfair that we had to miss out on that, and unfortunate that we never even finished.

This is why I disagree with you, Zeph, along with the point about the Essences. The players were not having fun after the first couple of months, and the loot serves as a way of easing that pain just a little bit. Would more consumables (and Essences) have made things better? Yes, but only to a degree; it would have made continuing realistic, but would not have fixed the bigger problem. Would more consumables instead of gear have made things better? No. I think that innovative battles and awesome loot were SUPPOSED to be the main draws of the Quest.

The ultimate problem, I think, was that the players were not on the Quest they thought they'd be going on when they signed up, and that created a tension between players and QM that would have to be resolved in one way or another. In Q53, the Quest ended right at the point where that tension might have forced the issue; here we see what would have happened if there was another set of Spires, or if there had been content past Wren. Additionally, I also think Q50 suffered the problem of being somewhat too rigid. Things like the icy floor and the foggy room were interesting, but it would have been nice for the mages to be able to melt the floor or blow away the fog for a reasonable amount of Ether; likewise, once those Continuous Battle rules were laid down, the Heroes knew they wouldn't be doing anything BUT Continuous Battle for the rest of the Quest. There was no hope for a change of pace, which meant that fatigue set in a lot quicker than perhaps it would have. Additionally, the few changes of pace that WERE there seemed forced upon the Heroes, rather than being options that Heroes could go back to for a nice change of pace, though to be fair that was partly due to the way JimB decided to lead (fight, loot, move, as opposed to fighting until bored of fighting and then taking some time to loot, or some other method).

Q50 also revisited another problem 53 had (albeit on a much smaller scale): NPC babysitting. Tao Warrior is one of the weaker NPC classes we've seen (ESPECIALLY in terms of damage absorbtion), and there wasn't a whole lot of strategy available for poor Jun. Additionally, the whole point of the Quest was to keep poor Jun safe: this meant that, rather than being an interesting character who fought alongside the Heroes, he became a little glass trinket the party had to watch out for. Really, Hybros had the right idea right at the beginning: first time he's knocked out, revive him and then come back for him after most of the place is cleared.

OK, I'm done with Q53 comparisons (mostly ), now on to the Q50 specific criticisms:

The VAST MAJORITY of the ideas in here were brilliant; I do think, however, that there was too much at once. Continuous battle! Enemies running between rooms! Enemies that have to be beaten in a certain order! Enemies hidden in scenery! Hidden loot! Scenery affecting battles! Hidden enemy stats! A currency based on how many enemies you've killed! (I can say for a fact that I'm stealing that last one, if you'll allow me to. ) There were a LOT of new ideas, but I feel that a.) they got to be a little confusing/tiring after a while and, more importantly, b.) these innovative mechanics didn't get enough of a chance to shine.

There were only two mechanics that I really didn't like: the big mandatory puzzle, and the ice (both of which occurred in rapid succession). The mandatory puzzle was clearly not most of the players' cup of tea, and the fact that the ENTIRE party had to do it and they could only get an update on it once every 24 hours meant that a lot of players were standing around bored with nothing to do (they couldn't even loot or trade while the puzzle-solvers worked on the puzzle). The ice...to tell the truth, I don't think it's fair that there was slipping for exiting the room. I understand it was an attempt to keep it fair to the rules of "movement=Free Hits", but honestly, I think that would have been a good place to make an exception to the rules/preset Quest structure for the sake of fun.

Additionally, I got the sense that a lot of things in the pagoda were supposed to be tied together, but with the quest running so long those connections kind of faded past the point of obscurity into straight-up invisibility. I'm going to be giving this same note to Dannylonglegs, but: players hate when they have to remember all sorts of obscure details that they were casually told weekd or months ago. It's the same reason students hate cumulative exams in class: our short-term memory only lasts about 4-6 weeks, maybe 8 at most, before all that information gets distilled into general ideas rather than specific information. If people find that sort of hard for "important" things like school, how much harder is it to find space in memory to remember little details about a game they're playing for fun? I don't go around repeating details about Arthur's backstory and philosophy and in-game history because I particularly enjoy the act of reiterating those things; I do it because it helps me to not forget what he's been through--and even then, it's nowhere near perfect. Same thing for his stuff with Wren and Chaos. Memory of in-game details might last 2 weeks, or 3 if you're lucky. Beyond that, we only remember the big moments.

That said, I LOVE LOVE LOVE the idea and the location you've built. I look forward to revisits--MULTIPLE revisits, if possible. The Ji Pei are still one of the top Houses that need the Sandy treatment, in my book, and I want to see more.

OH! I forgot to mention:

If ANY QM finds themselves slower to update than they would like, I am MORE THAN HAPPY to help. Sandy, I really think something like this--even just someone to help with the crunch of rolling and running the battles--would have helped you out a LOT. Obviously, I can't help much with Quests I'm on or with building/photographing new sets, but if you ever need (or even just want) the help, PLEASE don't hesitate to ask.

[Dannylonglegs]

Additionally, I got the sense that a lot of things in the pagoda were supposed to be tied together, but with the quest running so long those connections kind of faded past the point of obscurity into straight-up invisibility. I'm going to be giving this same note to Dannylonglegs, but: players hate when they have to remember all sorts of obscure details that they were casually told weekd or months ago. It's the same reason students hate cumulative exams in class: our short-term memory only lasts about 4-6 weeks, maybe 8 at most, before all that information gets distilled into general ideas rather than specific information. If people find that sort of hard for "important" things like school, how much harder is it to find space in memory to remember little details about a game they're playing for fun? I don't go around repeating details about Arthur's backstory and philosophy and in-game history because I particularly enjoy the act of reiterating those things; I do it because it helps me to not forget what he's been through--and even then, it's nowhere near perfect. Same thing for his stuff with Wren and Chaos. Memory of in-game details might last 2 weeks, or 3 if you're lucky. Beyond that, we only remember the big moments.

You're totally right, Flipz. Thanks! This is a great criticism, and that may actually be why the plot is confusing some.

Note to self: Provide an all-inclusive summary of important plot points and NPCs for the players and spectators once they get out of the Maze.

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[Zepher]

Not to single you out, but Zeph: This. So this on 53.

This is why I disagree with you, Zeph, along with the point about the Essences. The players were not having fun after the first couple of months, and the loot serves as a way of easing that pain just a little bit. Would more consumables (and Essences) have made things better? Yes, but only to a degree; it would have made continuing realistic, but would not have fixed the bigger problem. Would more consumables instead of gear have made things better? No. I think that innovative battles and awesome loot were SUPPOSED to be the main draws of the Quest.

like the icy floor and the foggy room were interesting, but it would have been nice for the mages to be able to melt the floor or blow away the fog for a reasonable amount of Ether

I get it. You wanted more consumables because you guys didn't think you'd win battles. Only, you did win, with the exception of one when you expressly ignored the advice given to you, so you need to stop bringing it up. If you don't enjoy quests that challenge you, don't sign up for my future quests.

There is too much unique gear in this game. I think many players feel this way, and MANY QMs do. This quest simply had too much unique stuff. They probably got double the amount of stuff they can wear, and triple the amount of weapons they can use, MANY of which are new and unique and powerful. Tell me other quests where this is true.

I didn't see any heroes try to clear the fog or melt the ice. QMs don't need to hand you those on a platter, its a job trait, try it out.

[PsyKater]

Good idea, DLL. I have no idea what your quest is all about.

[The Legonater]

I think there's definitely two sides to this. It really comes to QM and player preferences. Some will prefer intrigue quests, or large battle quests, or puzzle quests, some will prefer to RP or to fight challenging battles or to just min-max your way through the game while giving no thought to RPing.

I think the amount of loot is a pretty fine line. I admit that so far I've been pretty lenient with my loot in Quest 64, but thus far there haven't been a whole lot of brand-new loot. Cool new loot is nice, but too much of it gets excessive. Also, I personally would say that this cool loot should be relatively simple. Introducing brand new features into weapons can be interesting, but it can also get very confusing (take Sarge's Dual Strike for one). This is largely personal preference, though.

[Flipz]

I get it. You wanted more consumables because you guys didn't think you'd win battles. Only, you did win, with the exception of one when you expressly ignored the advice given to you, so you need to stop bringing it up. If you don't enjoy quests that challenge you, don't sign up for my future quests.

There is too much unique gear in this game. I think many players feel this way, and MANY QMs do. This quest simply had too much unique stuff. They probably got double the amount of stuff they can wear, and triple the amount of weapons they can use, MANY of which are new and unique and powerful. Tell me other quests where this is true.

I didn't see any heroes try to clear the fog or melt the ice. QMs don't need to hand you those on a platter, its a job trait, try it out.

Whoa, hey, I said I wasn't trying to single you out. I'm just offering my opinion, if it bugs you so much, I won't bring it up again.

Let's agree to disagree on that. In my view, it's apples and oranges--is +6 HP better than Power +3 and immunity to Wood? There's no objective way to tell. See

.

As I recall, Cinna DID try to blow away the fog, to no effect. I'll double check. Yep, here.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Flipz

[Zepher]

It doesn't bug me when you do it once. A lot of your points were valid. But you did it three times during the quest itself in PM, countless times in thread, and now again a month or so after its concluded after you already gave your thoughts. You know your stuff, and I DO value your input, but you're beating a very dead horse right now. It's the same when you keep telling me that I killed off all the NPCs you liked. Its fine to have that opinion and share it, but doing it over and over again is just offensive to the NPCs that I have left and like. You understand game design better than most people, but it doesn't mean you have to be mean about it. Offer advice, and then let it rest.

And yes, agreed, neither of those are objectively better. That wasn't what I was saying, I was saying over all there were too many unique drops. I know that I personally won't be taking hard to balance for heroes on future quests. That's not people like Docken with his SP or Guts with his attacks, Hybros with his armor or you with your scrolls. Those are easy to manage and you all worked for it. But too many unique drops makes it simply too hard to keep track of. Sandy himself has stated a similar thing, which is why I was so surprised by the drops on this quest (Sandy in previous quests has also been relatively conservative and fair, it is only this quest I took issue with).

I apologize, apparently you're right about the fog. I personally agree with you, that should have worked in my opinion. :thumbup:

[Pyrovisionary]

I would prefer at least another 2 battles after this one Legonater! I rewally want to get an advanced class!

Quest 50 was just a matter of preference in my opinion.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Skyrimguy

[Darkdragon]

I didn't see any heroes try to clear the fog or melt the ice. QMs don't need to hand you those on a platter, its a job trait, try it out.

I don't know why you seem so angry here. Yes we did try to clear the fog.

Also, one of the things that JB didn't mention is that we started out with one more hero than we ended up with. So the game was created for a certain number of high level folks but we were one less. That includes any consumables he might have had, etc. It just made it that much more difficult and ultimately, in our opinion, impossible for us.

[Zepher]

Yes, my mistake was pointed out to me! I think it was a good strategy, wish it would have worked!

[Darkdragon]

Yes, my mistake was pointed out to me! I think it was a good strategy, wish it would have worked!

Ok cool. I didn't read that part until after I posted, gotta love those quick reactions without finishing reading the rest of the thread.

[Scubacarrot]

I really liked the concept of the Continuous Battle, but I think most problems with it boil down to the fact that it went on for too long. Even without delays, 108 enemies spread over battles of 3 to 7 enemies is going to take a long, long time anyway you turn it. I disagree that there would be less potential for roleplay with this concept. If there were more friendly NPC's like Sham Poo to interact with, or other ways to take out enemies. (Perhaps convince a portion to leave after a certain number had fallen, fill the steam room with poison gas instead, that sort of thing). As it was, I think (keep in mind this is from an outsider's point of view), it was a lot of battles, and little else. I especially liked the electrical current puzzle, really fun (to me). I was also not sure about the concept working in the way that it did when not fighting. It didn't really seem to serve much of a purpose to keep doing things in rounds. Perhaps if you would make sure there were always enemies coming or something, that would have been better, and possibly sped up the quest. As always, the pictures and everything were amazing. I think it was definitely cool, and I hope someone reuses the Continuous Battle concept. It would work well in other settings as well.

[Peppermint_M]

It was an interesting idea and we berserkers got one major reward from it all, an effective shield roll! I am glad Tesni and Tarn managed to illustrate why War Cry is great unless you roll it in succession!

On to stuffs:

- I felt a little at disadvantage because of the loss of my job trait. Now, it may just be my personal strategy and method of play, but when my character has regenerating health I do not see reasons to purchase a potion. The ones I had were drops I kept hold of because they are useful for other party members... The loss of that trait without warning was hard to work with.

-I know this genre well, the tower battle is a classic of many an anime, manga and game but even the most intense have space to patch up and heal. I do realise we probably broke our chance of healing (the spring right?) through poor communication. The one time it would have been good if you weren't so quick to act!

-My next issue was level progression. Yes, it would have probably worked out as unfair if we won our XP after every skirmish instead of every six enemies but it was sometimes a little vexing to beat a group of high level or tough enemies and still need to wait for an increase.

However: I appreciate we were the lab-rats here, if the lessons learned are applied then I really want to go back and fight some more. The enemies were awesome and what I could gather of the story was good. It jsut took us all a long time.

[Rumble Strike]

I very much agree with the points raised by my fellow Questmates and other interested observers. The main one is obviously we discussed it as a group (but individually we had all come to realize) that we were not going to be able to beat the Quest. The continuous battle meant that the greatest thing we needed in there were Phoenix Essences as heroes did not simply "get up" after a KO as in regular battles, and with the few we had remaining, it was a futile task. The difficulty of the ice battle was the tipping point, but really, even if we'd've beaten that one, I'm sure the next one would have been as devious.

Other thoughts from my own perspective: Tarn was woefully underprepared for something like this. He didn't take a single consumable in with him. His Barbarian nature was then stripped away, and I genuinely felt at a disadvantage all Quest. I have mentioned before that the battles are the part of Heroica I enjoy least (as player, observer and QM), so I fully admit that I probably shouldn't have signed up for it, but I did so want to go on a Sandy Quest. The pictures and enemies were very good and as inventive as always, but for me, it was definitely taking too long. If it had said at the start it was a 5, 6 month Quest, I would probably have signed up for something a bit shorter after the length of the Dastan quest Tarn had been on previously.

I hope that you will see much constructive criticism here, Sandy, and that it is not the last we see of the concept, or of Jun. A follow-up Quest utilising some of the knowledge gained here with what worked and what didn't would be an interesting prospect. The loss of Jun is great roleplay fodder and something that will no doubt weigh on the minds of us Quest#50ers for a long time.