Heroica RPG - Quest Masters' Lounge

[Zepher]

Read the side quests, very interesting stuff! Arthur and Boomingham had almost exactly the same interaction. Spooky.

I'll also note, as a final thing, that while Boomingham handled it poorly, I agree with him in his conviction that Masson is one evil dude. Both Boomingham and I believe in second chances... but sometimes it takes a while to win trust. Masson can't just say "you know what, you guys are right, sorry." That means nothing. If someone showed up at your house with... heck, even someone you hated, and told you that they'd erased their memory of YOU but they were still the same person, you'd be pissed. Even if they said sorry. So I don't think Boomingham is evil now, just that he handled a righteous cause poorly, or even pettily.

Two more notes I forgot: Boomingham did not fight the Stealer because he was afraid to. He is an intelligent man in many ways (if not all ways) and he knew that he would not win without his party's backing, and they had taught him to not trust them. This is another dark moment for Boomingham - seeing something evil and not being able to stop it because your friends have abandoned you is a dark place. Finally, if you picked up a moodiness in Boomingham between Karie's kidnapping and her reveal, it was because he was pretty sure he would have to kill her if her memories got screwed up, as an act of kindness (if Boomingham's memories were perverted, he'd want someone to kill him because he'd only be an echo of what he was).

That's it, I think. Lots of things arose from the quest, clearly, so another huge , Endgame.

[Brickdoctor]

That was a really quick boss battle.

In regards to LDD, it is possible to make the sets look really good in LDD. I've done several for Flipz, and I daresay they look almost as good as my physical ones, and are more impressive because of the size of sets I can build. Most architecture techniques translate well into LDD. (Even the legs and hands; you can separate those from the rest of the body by editing the LXFML.)

[Palathadric]

LDraw rocks! Period.

Okay. It's not that great and I wish trans-pieces wouldn't be such a megablock to render...

[Tachyon]

Is it easier to make a quest with LDD or LDraw ?

[Endgame]

Read the side quests, very interesting stuff! Arthur and Boomingham had almost exactly the same interaction. Spooky.

Well, minus the stripping, of course.

Masson is in Kintobor's hands now, so I'm interested to see where that all ends up.

That was a really quick boss battle.

Briar wasn't meant to be a boss fight - in fact, he was meant to be a curb stomp battle. He was supposed to be easily dispatched.

If the paty wanted a hard boss fight (or in this case, absolutely brutal) one, all they had to do was challenge The Stealer. I've posted his first phase stats, and he wouldn't even be alone.

Unfortunately, it takes me 2 hours to render 7 pieces, even on my best computer, so

[Brickdoctor]

Is it easier to make a quest with LDD or LDraw ?

LDD is easier to learn how to use and easier to position bricks. LDraw is more flexible and can handle more bricks. But LDD will do the majority of techniques you want to use once you know what tricks need to be employed. (floating, scaffolding, editing the LXFML, etc.)

[joeshmoe554]

LDD is easier to learn how to use and easier to position bricks. LDraw is more flexible and can handle more bricks. But LDD will do the majority of techniques you want to use once you know what tricks need to be employed. (floating, scaffolding, editing the LXFML, etc.)

I often find LDD harder to position bricks since there seems to be no way to fine tune a bricks position or lock it on one of the 3 axes. It just guesses where I want the brick to go, and computers still aren't that good at guessing.

[Brickdoctor]

I often find LDD harder to position bricks since there seems to be no way to fine tune a bricks position or lock it on one of the 3 axes. It just guesses where I want the brick to go, and computers still aren't that good at guessing.

It can be frustrating. I think getting a brick where you want it in LDD is a matter of using the program often enough that you get a feel for exactly where to put the mouse and orient the camera to get the brick to go where you want it to. And there's always scaffolding.

[Peppermint_M]

Sorry for the log delay, Zeph, thanks for the awesome quest and I love being able to play Tesni in anything you QM.

And yes, I drop the roleplay as mostly Tesni is supposed to be focused in battle.

Anywho, onto whatever is left of those stars!

[Palathadric]

My computer can't seem to take LDD. SR 3D Builder is a lot kinder in that respect. I started out with MLCad, and then jumped at the chance to use LDD, but I quickly found that my computer was just not suited for it and the amount of parts is also not what I'd like it to be. SR 3D Builder is the sweetest for now. Although, of course, they all have their issues.

And Endgame, I thought my computer was an ancient of days, how old is yours? Or is it just filled up with all your boss battles notes that you didn't have space to write up on paper?

[Brickdoctor]

And Endgame, I thought my computer was an ancient of days, how old is yours? Or is it just filled up with all your boss battles notes that you didn't have space to write up on paper?

Maybe he's using up all his computing power trying to run handwriting recognition on his Heroica notes.

As long as you have the building skill, I don't think the program you use to make the set is as important as how it's rendered. LDD sets already look pretty good in LDD -- after all, the quality of the build matters more than the rendering -- but if you've got a quality build, it'll look a lot better rendered in something like POV-Ray.

[Palathadric]

Maybe he's using up all his computing power trying to run handwriting recognition on his Heroica notes.

As long as you have the building skill, I don't think the program you use to make the set is as important as how it's rendered. LDD sets already look pretty good in LDD -- after all, the quality of the build matters more than the rendering -- but if you've got a quality build, it'll look a lot better rendered in something like POV-Ray.

Ah, that's it!

Well, some programmes are more difficult to use. Also, LDD doesn't seem to take well at all to large models. Furthermore, LDraw has more available pieces than LDD from my last count.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Palathadric

[Kintobor]

Alright, before Endgame thinks I forgot him, let me write out my thoughts on 70. I've been catching up on my anime, and I'm almost through Madoka Magica. First of all, I gotta plug this in: go watch it if you haven't already. Now. Sorry, just really getting into a show that really deserves to be shouted out. Now, my feelings on this quest.

I adore it. I think it's quite possibly one of my favorite quests to date. Just everything about this quest: yes.

First of all, as I stated before, I had no clue what you were doing from the beginning, and although I feel honored to have a quest that was slightly centered around Karie, me nor Endy planned any of it. Unfortunately Zepher has already stated everything I wanted to, so if you want to know what I thought, go read that. However, I'll talk a little bit on the quest.

I'm not one for battles, so I don't dwell on them, but still, they were good, and like Zepher said, the loot was excellent. They were tough, but winnable. Not much else to say, because that's not why I play Heroica.

Plot. Well, it was awesome. Really. You tied everything nicely with a red ribbon after all was said and done, the characters I thought were great, and I was constantly on the edge of my seat. Once again, I'd say more, but it's already been said. The characters were great, and I'm more than intrigued now looking at what happened with everyone else in the inn. You showed an inkling of Masson's love for Karie really early on, and I loved that. It was a rough ride for everyone, not just Karie, so I'm glad that in the end, everyone's character has chnaged in some way.

You really out did yourself Endgame. Consider this my personal gratitude for what you're partially responsible for: Karie.

If those dice didn't get Karie hexed back in 56, I don't think she'd be the same weirdo we all know today, and this quest solidified her even more. She's a traitorous little weasel apparently, so congrats Endgame, you deserve a cookie.

As well,

.

[JimBee]

Just thought I'd pop in here and ask if Scubacarrot is planning on hosting any time soon? I would love to go on one of your quests (especially if it means access to Infiltrator ).

[Flipz]

Just popping in for a short bit to check up, then I'm off again.

RE: Zeph (battle mechanics): Agreed. Though personally, I prefer Level ?? enemies that scale to the Hero's level--I really, really enjoyed them in the first fight. I know that some people don't like them, but I love them. In my opinion, they are better for mixed-level parties than Lust, by a WHOLE lot.

Overall, I think the first half of the Quest was just about perfect. I actually would have been pretty happy with the Quest ending there, both thematically and mechanically. That said, it settled down pretty well for the end (though you did miss a fine opportunity to poke fun at me and Arthur at the end--if I had been in your shoes, I would have written something like: "Arthur began a long speech that lasted for nearly fifteen minutes that basically amounted to 'yeah, I trust him'." ), and, of course, I'm very happy I was able to participate.

RE: Boomingham as antagonist: YES. I'd been waiting to say that from the moment you mentioned the gleam in Boomers' eye when the party was searching for Masson, and I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who saw it that way.

I'm going to disagree with you about Masson's actions. While I agree that Nevron's characterization and development was a little stilted...well, let me just address one of Endgame's comments first so I can explain.

Masson:

Masson was a bit different from my normal cast of villains. Like I have said, all of my big-bads are simply broken-hearted people forced to evil; Masson was no exception. However, almost every other enemy I've made lashed outward from their issues, and hurt tons of people in the process: Masson lashed inward, and it led to some serious issues. he became obsessive over his studies, developed irrational phobias, hardly ate or sleep. Ultimately his sanity just decayed, and a legitimately good person was driven to trying to achieve a fair goal with awful means. He was immaculate, yes - but it was just his last-ditch attempt at trying to deal with all of the guilt and sadness he internalized. He became aloof and detached, trying to bury his own emotions and self to complete his goal; Karie was the only one who could bring Masson back down to Earth, and thus was the only one to convince him to give up The Harvester. Note how not all of his flaws are fixed: the Harvester is destroyed, but he is still essentially a vigilante. He isn't above using Exterlate, either. And although he is much happier now that he has Karie, his psychological problems are simply less apparent, not gone. This quest worked wonders for Masson and pretty much saved him; however, he still has a long road of recovery to walk.

Endgame pulled this off really, really well. He picked up the way the mind works when it's lashing out against itself immaculately. On a deep, subconscious level, the Stealer wanted to be caught, wanted to be saved the whole time. He may not have planned it consciously, but he put himself in the situation to be redeemed. The method he developed is also a great fit for his brand of hurt--he wants to be loved, and he doesn't want to hurt anymore, so he builds himself something that can do both in one stroke. That is genius villain design.

Maybe it's just because I understand that mindset, having lived with it for so long, but I feel that Masson's decision to do the right thing was built up to well in advance, particularly with Karie's side-quest and the journal entries. In this case, some of that development happened offscreen, but if you account for that offscreen time, it was perfectly paced for what was started back in Quest...56, was it? (It's been a while. )

Nevron, however, I agree with. I'm not sure if he was intended to interact with me more (sorry! ) or what, but he kinda felt rushed and stilted. To a certain extent, I think he might have been better suited as an Early Bird Cameo of things to come, rather than trying to shoehorn in his entire past with Briar into this one Quest. Let us see the rivalry and the hatred, but leave the actual development and explanation of it to the future.

Boomingham: I liked what I saw of Boomingham this Quest, for the most part. That wasn't to say I like him as a person so much, but it was very interesting (and, at times, legitimately frightening!) to watch. My only negative moment came with that big "work with me or kill me" moment after the warehouse--it somehow seemed too grand and out of character for Boomingham, like he was somehow channeling Arthur for a moment. Like we discussed later, we were both sort of off our games for a couple of days, and it showed--particularly as regards Arthur's response to the moment (seriously, what the hell was I even trying to do there?! Even I have no clue. ).

As regards your list of "characters I love to watch but can't Quest with", I think Boomers has managed to join mine, joining Haldor and Atramor, and even Cronk. (If Arthur ever met Pretzel, he'd probably form an Anti-Paladin league--at this point the only Paladin he's met that he hasn't hated is Alexandre, and I don't think they crossed paths while he was a Paladin. )

Karie: You shined here. This Quest was made for you, as was eminently evident when you joined the Syndicate. You made a lot of interesting choices, and I leaned heavily on you to keep my own posts from turning into disjointed nonsense. I'm not really sure what Arthur thinks of Karie at this point--she kept seducing him, but his mind opposed what his body felt. He's protective of her, but at the same a little repulsed in his own way. She hates the Town Watch, but she forgave Arthur. I don't know what sort of dynamic I'd describe them as having, but clearly it'll only get more complicated now that she's become a Witch like his worst enemy, Atramor, did.

Arnulf: You started off the Quest really well; you managed to act as a great counter to Karie with hiding and then revealing the past you both shared. But then you sort of disappeared after we entered the base! (I can't really complain much, there, given my own absences, though. ) If it was Arthur's statement to you and Boomingham to shut up that made you talk less, I apologize--I meant it only in-character, I by no means wished to stifle your voice or contributions. I really do hope you can Quest more with Boomingham--you have a great dynamic going, and it deserves more time to develop.

Em: Wow. I'm doubly impressed--not only did you manage to maintain a quiet character without just tagging along and checking in for battles, but you also managed to develop him with the few words he said. I'm totally blown away, particularly by the PM interaction with Masson. Great, great job.

Self-analysis: This was probably my second least favorite Quest to date in terms of my own performance. I was far less active than I wanted to be, kept having to take breaks (and thus foisting responsibility for my own character onto other people who already had a lot to deal with), and the roleplaying material I put out was pretty much garbage. I'm glad I managed to get to talk to Guts before we left, allowing me to play up Arthur's suspicion of Karie at the beginning--I feel it was the only thing I really managed to succeed at during the Quest. Again, I heavily relied on Karie--if it wasn't for her, I really would have looked even stupider than I did. This becomes immediately apparent after Karie is kidnapped; I can't find a single post of mine after the Octavian battle that I really like, and there isn't much before that point that's not utter bollocks either.

I also wasn't as generous as I would have liked to have been. In retrospect, I probably should have given out more Gold, and I should have handed out the Smelling Salts to everyone else instead of using them as well.

Finally: the stripping: I find it interesting that both Zeph and I came up with the idea of our characters not being ready for battle the moment the Stealer walked in. The stripping, however, was a combination of "well, logically, he won't put his uniform on OVER his pajamas" and "I wonder if I can out-Dannylonglegs Dannylonglegs". Well, that and realizing that those legs work disturbingly well as undergarments. So yes, I admit, shirtless Arthur is fanservice for the ladies, the rest is fanservice for DLL. (Also, most people missed it, but I actually changed Arthur's pic in my sig to match when he changed in the PM--a nice touch, I thought, hinting at what was going on without giving too much away.)

Just thought I'd pop in here and ask if Scubacarrot is planning on hosting any time soon? I would love to go on one of your quests (especially if it means access to Infiltrator ).

I'll second this.

[Dannylonglegs]

I really want to talk about this Quest, because I loved watching it, but I just haven't had the time. My personal laptop is getting fixed on friday (or the weekend), so I'll post then.

Finally: the stripping: I find it interesting that both Zeph and I came up with the idea of our characters not being ready for battle the moment the Stealer walked in. The stripping, however, was a combination of "well, logically, he won't put his uniform on OVER his pajamas" and "I wonder if I can out-Dannylonglegs Dannylonglegs". Well, that and realizing that those legs work disturbingly well as undergarments. So yes, I admit, shirtless Arthur is fanservice for the ladies, the rest is fanservice for DLL. (Also, most people missed it, but I actually changed Arthur's pic in my sig to match when he changed in the PM--a nice touch, I thought, hinting at what was going on without giving too much away.)

I can't wait to read those side-quests to see sexy!nekked!Arthur!

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[Zepher]

The side-quests were quoted on the previous page.

RE: Boomingham as antagonist: YES. I'd been waiting to say that from the moment you mentioned the gleam in Boomers' eye when the party was searching for Masson, and I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who saw it that way.

Boomingham: I liked what I saw of Boomingham this Quest, for the most part. That wasn't to say I like him as a person so much, but it was very interesting (and, at times, legitimately frightening!) to watch. My only negative moment came with that big "work with me or kill me" moment after the warehouse--it somehow seemed too grand and out of character for Boomingham, like he was somehow channeling Arthur for a moment. Like we discussed later, we were both sort of off our games for a couple of days, and it showed--particularly as regards Arthur's response to the moment (seriously, what the hell was I even trying to do there?! Even I have no clue. ).

As regards your list of "characters I love to watch but can't Quest with", I think Boomers has managed to join mine, joining Haldor and Atramor, and even Cronk. (If Arthur ever met Pretzel, he'd probably form an Anti-Paladin league--at this point the only Paladin he's met that he hasn't hated is Alexandre, and I don't think they crossed paths while he was a Paladin. )

I don't think Boomingham was an evil antagonist. Just if we view Karie as the antagonist, I think he was her biggest obstacle. I also forgot to say that Boomingham actually really liked and felt protective of Karie, which (along with everything else I've mentioned) made her betrayal even WORSE for him.

As for liking him - I gotta say, edit out a few traits and I LOVE Boomingham, as a person. I agree with many of his sentiments... but certainly not all of them. And grand gestures are totally in Boomingham's wheelhouse. Just imagine them too grand.

[Palathadric]

(Also, most people missed it, but I actually changed Arthur's pic in my sig to match when he changed in the PM--a nice touch, I thought, hinting at what was going on without giving too much away.)

I'll second this.

I called Arthur out as looking freaky.

And I'll third the latter part.

I don't think Boomingham was an evil antagonist. Just if we view Karie as the antagonist, I think he was her biggest obstacle. I also forgot to say that Boomingham actually really liked and felt protective of Karie, which (along with everything else I've mentioned) made her betrayal even WORSE for him.

As for liking him - I gotta say, edit out a few traits and I LOVE Boomingham, as a person. I agree with many of his sentiments... but certainly not all of them. And grand gestures are totally in Boomingham's wheelhouse. Just imagine them too grand.

Boomingham really went through a lot this quest. I love Boomingham and really want for Pretzel to quest with him sometime. I'm not really sure if they'd get along or not. I guess it depends on the circumstances, but Boomingham does seem like one of the more likely heroes to get along with Pretzel.

[Shoker86]

Arnulf: You started off the Quest really well; you managed to act as a great counter to Karie with hiding and then revealing the past you both shared. But then you sort of disappeared after we entered the base! (I can't really complain much, there, given my own absences, though. ) If it was Arthur's statement to you and Boomingham to shut up that made you talk less, I apologize--I meant it only in-character, I by no means wished to stifle your voice or contributions. I really do hope you can Quest more with Boomingham--you have a great dynamic going, and it deserves more time to develop.

I know you meant in character. The betrayal and decision left mark on Arnulf. He felt isolated, only support he had was from Boomingham, and it seems it affected him to. I wanted Arnulf to talk less, to characterize his isolation. Maybe it wasn't the best way to do it, but I thought the contrast beetween usually pasionate and erratic Arnulf could picture that.

[Duvors]

How do I download LDraw to a Mac?

[Brickdoctor]

LDraw is just the parts library; you need to download an editor. For Mac that's Bricksmith. They have a complete package there, but that LDraw library in the Bricksmith package hasn't been updated since February 2012. Depending on the parts you need, you might have to download a new library from LDraw to update the Bricksmith one...and I don't remember how to do that.

[CMP]

I'm liking this healing enemies thing. I'm hoping it gets the heroes trying to figure our their priorities without dragging the battle out too much.

[TheBoyWonder]

Thanks for the quest Joe, it was brilliant fun, well laid out and a nice break from massive quests. Well done!

[Palathadric]

I'm liking this healing enemies thing. I'm hoping it gets the heroes trying to figure our their priorities without dragging the battle out too much.

I think we'll just ignore Big Red at some point and hit the others. I still have a secret weapon, but I don't like wasting consumables when not absolutely necessary.

[The Legonater]

Thanks for the fantastic quest, WB!

More comments later, but I deeply apologize if I turned this into a Rone-quest. That wasn't my intention, but it feels like it turned out that way. Again, I'm really sorry if this feels the case for anyone else.