Heroica RPG - Quest Masters' Lounge

[Kadabra]

Was this planned? All of these figs and plot bunnies look amazing, and Aras would love to get in on any of them (Zepher or CMP probably fit better with something he'd actually want to do, but WBD's looks like a superb and original concept!)

[Zepher]

Was this planned? All of these figs and plot bunnies look amazing, and Aras would love to get in on any of them (Zepher or CMP probably fit better with something he'd actually want to do, but WBD's looks like a superb and original concept!)

Who knows. It's been a long time since Dastan, and people seemed to like a triple hosted trilogy.

[Sandy]

Thank you so much for playing, everyone on Quest#75! It wasn't quite as short a quest as I planned, since the battles were so drawn out due to the amount of combatants, but I hope it was fun despite of that.

I know everyone else must be grumbling about the excessive loot, but most of it was planned already for Quest #50 as a reward for winning the arduous "continuous battle", so this second party just got to reap the benefits.

The Ji Pei storyline was significantly elaborated and advanced in this quest, so I hope you liked that as well! I tried to challenge you with some moral choices at the end, but for once the party stayed true to their original mission and just did what they were told to do in the beginning.

My opinion was that it was a successful quest, despite the long battles. I wanted to test out the maximum power that I could give to the enemies when faced with fully-buffed heroes, and found out that there was practically nothing a high-powered party could not face (especially when equipped with the Pheles Rod and artifacts that give a multitude of immunities). It really helps me plan for the "big battles" coming in the distant future, so thanks for experimenting with me.

[Endgame]

Lovely quest, Sandy! The battles were indeed well-balanced, though I felt the first one was harder then the second. (This is merely my opinion as an outsider, though, and should be taken with a grain of salt. )

My only real suggestion would've been to put the Thumb, or mention/rumors of him, in the beginning - that way, the party could've really been split when confronted by Kai Tsi.

[Rumble Strike]

Sandy, I felt that the second bite of the cherry was more successful than the first go. You know my reasons for the issues around teh Continuous Battle, but here you threw a lot at us at once which made it a lot more exciting. Having the automata and Lee along made us a bit overpowered, I can see you tried to tinker with that as it went on. I guess the one thing you couldn't plan for was the Duplovian Helmet + Pheles Rod combination which really was our win button.

I felt I contributed a lot more in battles as a Raider than a Bezerker, and I really hope everyone is OK with loot distribution.

Not a great deal of role-playing chances, but I think I made the most of tying it in with Tarn's regrets about the pagoda mission and Ella's prediction we would find Jun. The moral choice at the end was good, though.

Sets and pictures were awesome, as always. Very beautiful, and the rest of the Stars were just as inventive and colourful as the first lot.

Many, many thanks to CMP who really was the de facto Party Leader with his tactical nous. We may have got there without his fine battle plans and strategies, but we would have taken much longer about it!

Thanks to Sandy and my fellow Questers, this was great fun.

[CMP]

Fantastic Quest, Sandy. :thumbup: The setting and characters were amazing, and the battles were rightfully grueling and rewarding. We had to resort to some pretty insane strategies to take down some of the deadlier enemies, and in the end I think these will be looked back on as some of the most difficult and creative battles in Heroica - I will, at least.

I really hope this isn't the last we've seen of Xu. It's definitely one of the most interesting settings I've seen thus far.

I felt I contributed a lot more in battles as a Raider than a Bezerker, and I really hope everyone is OK with loot distribution.

Not a great deal of role-playing chances, but I think I made the most of tying it in with Tarn's regrets about the pagoda mission and Ella's prediction we would find Jun. The moral choice at the end was good, though.

I thought Tarn made a great party leader. You were certainly fair as far as loot went, and I don't think he's had the chance to be leader as nearly as much as he should.

[Flare]

It was a really fantastic quest, the battles and characters were awesome, as was everything else I was hoping to get to use my reptilian abilities some more but thats alright

[Kadabra]

It was a really fantastic quest, the battles and characters were awesome, as was everything else I was hoping to get to use my reptilian abilities some more but thats alright

I was just glancing through Beast Warrior's Job Traits and I noticed that you could assume Beast Form outside of comba as an actual play mechanic. That's wicked, can't wit to see how Benji uses it not just for roleplaying but also for game-breaking shenanigans. I really like how you've played BW!Benji, he feels very 'real' in the sense that if people had a hard-to-control ability to turn into a reptile that is exactly how I'd imagine they'd feel.

Edited September 5, 2013 by Kadabra

[-obelix-]

Sandy, it was an amazing quest! Characters, scenes, battles, I liked them all but I especially liked the story; the moral choice in the end reminded me of #44's one. It would be a shame not to see more quests taking place in Xu.

To my fellow questees, I share Thalion sentiment, I am really glad to have had the opportunity to quest with you (again in Benji's and Nagure's case).

I thought Tarn made a great party leader. You were certainly fair as far as loot went, and I don't think he's had the chance to be leader as nearly as much as he should.

I agree on this completely, Tarn made a great party leader, and was really fair about the loot distribution.

All in all, amazing work!

[Sandy]

I really hope this isn't the last we've seen of Xu. It's definitely one of the most interesting settings I've seen thus far.

It would be a shame not to see more quests taking place in Xu.

I'd actually like to throw the ball back to you guys on this. The Ji Pei storyline will continue in Eubric from here on out, so Xu is free for grabbing, if someone wants to expand the technologically advanced society run by people with blue skin.

For the record, the councellors of the Blue Hand are called the Thumb, the Forefinger, the Middlefinger, the Ringfinger and the Littlefinger (GoT reference!).

[Kintobor]

Excellent quest, Sandy! Definitely had a lot going on, but it all came through in the end! That and you did a rather good twist ending that didn't feel out of place.

As for Lee, if the party opted out of having him tag along, what would have happened?

[Sandy]

As for Lee, if the party opted out of having him tag along, what would have happened?

Shanxian would have kept her legs, but Lee would have died. So there was a big choice right at the beginning as well.

[Flare]

Shanxian would have kept her legs, but Lee would have died. So there was a big choice right at the beginning as well.

Wow, a bit drastic huh

[Scubacarrot]

So instead of the inevitable robot legs we would have gotten robot Lee?

[Kintobor]

It was hinted at in the ending too that had Lee been there he probably would have died. I'm really curious to see where this goes! Now if only C.A.T. could end, we can continue the story!

[Zepher]

Sandy, another good quest, but I have to admit that from an outsider's perspective at least, it was not my favorite from you. I'll tell you why, but of course, first give you the compliments that are due. The sets were beautiful. The fig barfs were some of my favorites ever. The battles were, actually, pretty grueling, though I'll echo CMP in saying the second one seemed relatively underwhelming. I'm glad to hear you are viewing these as testing, and that someone else can complain that all these power ups are insane. I don't think its fair to balance for heroes being totally powered-up, but I equally feel that it isn't fair to balance for them as if they didn't have those tools. I liked the G.E.M.s too, they were fun and had pretty decent personalities, and I like how you dealt with their deaths.

Now, my complaints. Again, you know I respect you greatly as a story-teller: this allows me to be candid with you. I think story-wise, this quest did little. Especially if you are not returning to Xu... I don't know what we were supposed to gain out of it. Jun's character seems mildly developed to me, and Lee did very little in general. The Matriarch of the Ji Pei family equally seems sort of "wedged in". I feel that we know little about the Ji Pei, and I don't think that they have real concrete personalities yet. I think you could do more with them. They don't strike me, yet, as fully fleshed out and realized characters. I'm sorry to be blunt, but they are the house that needs the most work. That's not saying you don't have stuff there, I just want to see more of it. Jun has daddy issues... but that's surface. I want more. Lee is loyal, sure... but that's surface. I want more. You're more than capable of complexity, so show it off.

I look forward to your next installment. :wub:

[Sandy]

Now, my complaints. Again, you know I respect you greatly as a story-teller: this allows me to be candid with you. I think story-wise, this quest did little. Especially if you are not returning to Xu... I don't know what we were supposed to gain out of it. Jun's character seems mildly developed to me, and Lee did very little in general. The Matriarch of the Ji Pei family equally seems sort of "wedged in". I feel that we know little about the Ji Pei, and I don't think that they have real concrete personalities yet. I think you could do more with them. They don't strike me, yet, as fully fleshed out and realized characters. I'm sorry to be blunt, but they are the house that needs the most work. That's not saying you don't have stuff there, I just want to see more of it. Jun has daddy issues... but that's surface. I want more. Lee is loyal, sure... but that's surface. I want more. You're more than capable of complexity, so show it off.

Thank you for your honest feedback, it's always appreciated!

However, you are forgetting that this quest was actually the second part of #50, which was the very first Ji Pei quest from me. So the two quests were just setting the stage for the Ji Pei storyline, even though some details had been shown in other quests (like #15 with the Tritech Company). Before the two quests, you knew practically nothing about Shanxian, Jun and Lee, but now you know where they come from, what's their position in the family and what they think about each other. I think I already made the characters go through some pretty dramatic stuff despite this being their introduction, with Jun losing his first love, Shanxian losing her legs, and Lee feeling like he failed the woman that once saved her. Isn't that plenty enough for what's practically one quest?

[Waterbrick Down]

So as I mentioned in the general discussion thread, I've been doing quite a bit of reading on game design and RPG's and such and thought I'd open up the discussion on the role of QM's, styles, and role-playing. A quick question for QM's/players to get us going.

How many times have you fudged something/or suspected your QM of fudging something in order for a story to go a certain way?

Now right off the bat I'm not going to denounce fudging but I think it speaks to a deeper issue and that is story telling and plot lines. Why does fudging or twisting occur? I think for QM's we probably do it for two main purposes. One, in order for our story to continue, and two in order to make the game seem more "fair" to our players. Let's face it, none of us really want to have a TPK to our names, right? But should we really be worried as QM's about that? I mean what makes decisions meaningful? Consequences. Whether good or bad, when our decisions only have one outcome associated with them then that removes all meaning from the decision in the first place. If I don't have to really care about my character succeeding because I know the QM will just save the story in the end either through twisting/fudging or by some Deus Ex Machina then why should I really invest in my character?

Now related to the idea of meaningful choices comes the idea of player freedom and story independence. Here is the main split between how folks perceive role-playing and role-playing games. One camp defines role-playing and role-playing games as an artistic medium in which a story is told (as the goal) and in which the players are merely acting out the roles of the heroes in the story. The story has a logical beginning and end and the players fill in the details but there are a limited number of possible options that the players can choose because after all, the story is the thing that must be kept intact and striven after. This is generally what is known as story-driven gaming

The second camp defines role-playing and role-playing games as a the taking on of a character in as it were a second "life". This character has goals of it's own outside of any plot or story. The world itself is a parallel to our own world in which there is no defined "plot" or "story" and in which characters make meaningful choices that affect their world and in which a story develops concurrently of the players playing much like real life. This point of view is generally referred to as sandbox gaming.

I think this comic might explain the idea a little better, as a precursor I don't completely agree with the labels for each of the drawings.

Now like I said, I don't think one is necessarily better than the other. The trick is how do we define what we are playing and is that what the players are expecting? I highly doubt we could ever produce a "good" game on this forum due to the structure of the system and how we have multiple QM's with rotating players. But in the meantime, how do you folks define an RPG or role-playing and how do you see QM's affecting that in one way or another?

[Kadabra]

When I DM for my DnD group we almost universally use the Open Concept Barn. I personally think that it strikes a great balance between telling a story, as you know the general idea of where things are going and can plan ahead, and playing a game, as the player'snchoices often make things easier or harder on themselves and they can experience different things depending in what they do. We never fudge dice rolls, though. All dice are rolled in plain sight on the table to prevent fudging, as we feel that it takes the sense of risk out of the game. In Heroica, I think that Free Range Organic is a lot more feasible simply due to the number of players and the scale of the game. Failing a Quest can be accounted for by changes in the game world easily due to the large number of QMs working together on the game, with .sandy making sure things are moving in the proper direction. But the fact that the Wanted! Quests even exist is a testament to how Heroica works, as we could have been rid of two major recurring villains much earlier than we actually were. And a choice made by the players in Falling .stars directly affected the lives of two major characters. It's not often you see that in DnD, and I love it.

[Palathadric]

What's TPK?

[Kintobor]

What's TPK?

Total Party Knockout.

It's when all party members have been knocked out, and have officially failed the quest. I think it's only happened once.

[Kadabra]

Total Party Knockout.

It's when all party members have been knocked out, and have officially failed the quest. I think it's only happened once.

Total Party Kill, more commonly, but yeah. When did we have a TPK?

[K-Nut]

It's when all party members have been knocked out, and have officially failed the quest. I think it's only happened once.

And it only happened when Endgame forbade us from using Smoke Bombs. A year later and I'm still bitter about that.

[Endgame]

46. It was my second quest, and my first time hosting Advanced Classes.

Needless to say it did not end well.

And it only happened when Endgame forbade us from using Smoke Bombs. A year later and I'm still bitter about that.

I'm hoping you're enjoying 79 more than 46.

Edited September 8, 2013 by Endgame

[K-Nut]

Total Party Kill, more commonly, but yeah. When did we have a TPK?

Quest #42 I think it was. Like I said, we were restricted from our smoke bombs.