Baritones 3: Day Two

[Brickdoctor]

Hmm Im really stuck here, we just seem to be going around in circles with the info we have. Its really nothing to base a conviction off of. I think Stanislav really summed it up quite well for me to be honest.

Agreed. That puts us back at square one, though, and minus two Townies, unless someone comes forth with new, more concrete information. Lynch someone based on ambiguously suspicious behavior, or lynch no one and hope for the best?

[Rick]

Can anyone think of a way we can determine if there is a double-voter to counteract a non-voter or who the double voter could be?

From an intermediate vote tally of course. If the double-voter voted for person X and the voteless Samuel did not vote yet or voted for person Y, it should be one of the people voting for X. But so far, the voice in the sky has been sparse with tallies, so it may not become all that obvious.

But as Stanislav indicated, Samuel does not seem to be aware, so I too assume it's likely some outside influence.

Even if I hadn't been arguing with him, there's no reason to give another person that sort of info unless you trust them very much. And being the first day, no one can have that kind of trust.

Am I the only one still wondering what there is to know? Eugene's message to Petr, which Petr quoted very early this morning, also suggests Eugene had some more information...

[RileyC]

Lynch someone based on ambiguously suspicious behavior, or lynch no one and hope for the best?

After our loss of 2 townies, I would rather lynch no one at this stage. We lynched yesterday off a whim and it brought us right back to where we were. Did anyone not vote yesterday? Was there a penalty at all?

[Rick]

Did anyone not vote yesterday? Was there a penalty at all?

The penalty would be for not reaching a conviction. And after a (majority) conviction was reached, voting was closed.

[badboytje88]

Maybe there wasn't some motive to the killing of Eugene like everyone seems to think. Maybe the scum or the vigilante just made a bad decision, or what would seem to be a bad decision in our eyes.

And... Who are you?

[Shadows]

Am I the only one still wondering what there is to know? Eugene's message to Petr, which Petr quoted very early this morning, also suggests Eugene had some more information...

No, you're not the only one. He "had information" on day 1, unlikely. He determined he could trust someone enough to tell them that. On day 1. Really unlikely. He died and can't speak for himself. Hints are given that all of this occurred, knowing he can't confirm or deny it.

When you look at it that way, it seems awfully suspicious, doesn't it?

[Zepher]

I can just not figure out what could have possibly happened in the night! Every way I slice it, it makes no sense. Why was there only one death?! With a group of 28 it seems certain that there would be more killers. So what the heck happened to them?! Did we just have an extremely lucky first night? And who the hell targeted Eugene? He was stirring up distractions, aiding the scum, but was an agreed upon townie by most people. So why would either side kill him. I really just can't fathom it.

As for Eugene's final message. He asked me to pass it on. I do not stand by it, Nika particularly I think is clear for the same reasons I thought Eugene seemed town. Timur has not struck me as odd. But a dying man asked me to pass along his message, and I thought it rude to not do so.

Next, this talk of Samuel's vote will not be sorted out until we vote again. I think there's a vote stealer out there who can steal anyone's vote they want, but that's just me. We must observe today's voting carefully. The vote stealer, however, must be one of the people who voted for Benji yesterday. Which leaves us with this list: (Waterbrick Down, Captain Tamamono, Brickdoctor, Cornelius Murdock, Rick, Quarryman, CallMePieOrDie, Fugazi, Zepher, JimButcher, [Kartoffel Viking], Pandora, Masked Builder, Roncanator, Shadows). 15 people, one of which is a vote stealer, who I don't trust.

Samuel, on the other hand, I think that getting your vote stolen is a very nice way of proving you town. Congratulations, I now "trust" you more than others. Hopefully my saying that won't get either of us killed.

[Dragonator]

We're not off to a good start, are we? Two dead, and both town, and it doesn't seem like we are any closer to finding the mobsters hiding amoung us.

Things we know

Eugene was killed either by a vigilante or the scum. Let's just leave out any possibility of a serial killer, it doesn't look like that at all. If it was a vigilante, I'd ask that they be more careful in the future. If it was the scum, I'd ask that they make it a murder suicide and go first next time.

Samuel can't vote, but god didn't tell him this in advance. That seems to make me suspect that it's an outside influence that chooses who to block, as opposed to a flaw in Samuel that causes it.

I can agree with that summary of what I've heard so far today. Fact is, we haven't discovered a hell of a lot. And we're probably not likely to either at this stage. The voting problem is an interesting one, and from my readings I would be inclined to conclude that another amoung us has control of Samuel's vote. I will be interested to see if samuel can vote today, or if it is something that can effect different people.

[KartoffelViking]

No, you're not the only one. He "had information" on day 1, unlikely. He determined he could trust someone enough to tell them that. On day 1. Really unlikely. He died and can't speak for himself. Hints are given that all of this occurred, knowing he can't confirm or deny it.

When you look at it that way, it seems awfully suspicious, doesn't it?

It's hard to argue against those arguments, although it almost seems too convenient. I find Eugene's death very puzzling, as surely he was not killed for his public behavior of yesterday. Which leads me to believe that he was killed for what he knew or claimed to know. Timur; can you shed some more light on this "evidence" issue Eugene was talking about?

[def]

I just realized that the vodka I was drinking last night was purple, and came in a family size cough syrup bottle. Why would the store sell vodka like that Anyway, the hangover is mostly over, and I've given thought to today's claims and facts.

I agree with a lot that was said about Sammy's voting, and that the culprit would have to be on that very long list. It sounds like the only logical answer.

I also believe Petr's story. Though it was the first night, it doesn't sound like a one off ability, so it should surface again, probably tonight. It seems like too dangerous a lie to make.

I don't think it clears either of them, since they could be bluffing us. Neither were fatal actions, especially Sam's, which had no effect on the vote in the end, so why not use that on them day one?

I'm leaning to believe both are town. Both were outspoken on Day One, and in my estimation, town tends to be more vocal up front. I'm suffering from Cough Syrup induced paranoia, so I can't make that call with any confidence though.

[Fugazi]

I'm leaning to believe both are town. Both were outspoken on Day One, and in my estimation, town tends to be more vocal up front. I'm suffering from Cough Syrup induced paranoia, so I can't make that call with any confidence though.

I haven't finished analysing today's conversations, but I think a word of advice is required here. Since it's possible there has been a conversion last night, I wouldn't consider yesterday's behaviour alone in declaring someone townie. It's yesterday's most 'towniest of townies' who were the ones most likely to be converted, so constant vigilance is paramount.

Also, a word of caution on those stolen votes -- not all those who are denied their right to vote may be townies. If this power is within Mafia hands, they may use it to clear some of their own, once the town establishes that the victims are likely townies. On the other hand I too believe that Samuel is a townie. It's just that we can't assume this for every other victim, until we establish who exactly this vote thief is.

[Hinckley]

It is now afternoon and everyone is walking about town, discussing the situation at hand. Sarah and Samuel go for a stroll to avoid the tension for a while and try to enjoy each other's company.

"Samuel, can we stop in the movie theater?" Sarah asks, "I'm feeling parched."

"Sarah honey, the theater has been closed for months," Samuel says, "There aren't enough people left in town to do business."

"We need to stop somewhere," Sarah protests, "Sorry, I'm not feeling well all of a sudden. I'm so thirsty."

"Well, we can go back to Ivan's deli or down the street to the bakery..." Samuel is suggesting, however Sarah doesn't hear him. She is collapsing to the sidewalk.

Others see Sarah and Samuel's trouble and rush to their aid.

"Sarah!" Samuel cries as he falls to his knees. "Sarah, honey. What's wrong? Somebody help!!"

Petra pushes her way through the crowd.

"I'm right here. Please let me through. I can help, Samuel," she says.

"Sarah, honey, are you OK?" Petra says as she kneels next to her and checks for a pulse, "Oh dear. Sarah's dead."

"No!" Samuel cries, "No. Please no!! Not my beautiful Sarah!"

Sarah (Sirius Black) was a member of the Town.

You may now vote. You have 48 hours to reach a conviction. With 25 players left it takes 13 votes to lynch.

The Deceased

Benji, a businessman, married to Irene, played by Big Cam - convicted on Day One (Town)

Eugene, a manager of The Green Door Tavern, played by Eskallon - murdered on Night One (Town)

Sarah, a retired piano teacher, married to Samuel, played by Sirius Black - died mysteriously during Day Two (Town)

[Peanuts]

Oh no, what a horror! What a shame I wasn't able to help her.

That's pretty strange, but I suppose, she was poisoned during the night. I'm no doctor so I have no proof of this. But since I didn't believe in your vigilante-with-Tommy-gun-theory I'd say we got our vigilante, or a third party member, who's able to poison people so that they die lateron. Though, I'm just speculating. I have no evidence to back this up and I'm as puzzled as most of us.

Again I must ask why I am a suspect. I'm baffled as to how people still consider me to be scum.

Well, we don't have any proof and you may very well be town. What I said is just that I find you more likely to be scum than everyone else we had suspected yesterday.

I doubt the scum have only one kill among them all. It's possible, but if they could only take out one of us per Night, I think this situation would drag on longer than we, the scum, or god wants. I'd think at the very least, a killer was blocked or a target protected, and/or a conversion took place.

It would be highly unusual and most propably unbalanced if the scum could both kill and convert in one night, unless the converting is a 1-3 shot ability. And in this case, I don't think they would waste it on day one. So I doubt a conversion, unless this is a bit like a film named Eurodina I watched once.

I think our numbers would go down nevertheless quite fast, as most games...of life of this size have a vigilante and a serial killer as well...and obviously, there is one who poisons.

Am I the only one still wondering what there is to know? Eugene's message to Petr, which Petr quoted very early this morning, also suggests Eugene had some more information...

Yeah, I also wonder. I though of the scenario, that Petr who worked for the mob, has killed Eugene in order to make Timur and Nika be suspected. But I don't think that's true, but it's kinda plausible.

[Bob]

What the hell? I'm assuming that this is one of the night killers, and that he or she has the ability to poison someone and have them die during the daytime. Another option is that Sarah didn't vote yesterday. Perhaps this is a sort of penalty for nonvoters, and she was randomly picked.

The conundrum is who to vote for. If we don't reach a conviction, then we'll have a penalty. At the same time, there is the risk that we vote off another townie. Then again, if nobody votes then we'll have a penalty for not reaching a conviction and a penalty for not voting. I'm at a loss, what do other people think?

[Tamamono]

Oh no! Someone must've poisoned Sarah! I think it's obvious that two killers struck last night; one shot Eugene, and one poisoned Sarah. But who's who? Is the vigilante the gun killer, or the poisoner? Or was the vigilante blocked last night, and the poisoner is the serial killer? I'm confused!

Timur; can you shed some more light on this "evidence" issue Eugene was talking about?

Of course:

Eugene sent me a message asking if I was vanilla, saying that it 'lead to some evidence' because he believed that 'the lord is playing with us'. Naturally, I took this that he is either: A. scum and wants to know if I'm worth killing, or B. scum and wants to know if I can be converted (as it is usually just vanillas who can be). I responded with extreme caution, asking him what evidence it might bring about as well as why he was over-role-playing. Then he responded back with more role-playing and avoided the vanilla question entirely. I asked him again why he had contacted me, but he just ignored my message and went about with his daily life.

I don't think that makes me suspicious, does anyone else?

[Fugazi]

I'm sorry for your loss Samuel, and I'm sorry for another loss to this town.

It would be highly unusual and most propably unbalanced if the scum could both kill and convert in one night, unless the converting is a 1-3 shot ability. And in this case, I don't think they would waste it on day one. So I doubt a conversion, unless this is a bit like a film named Eurodina I watched once.

Yeah, I guess the possibility of a conversion last night seems less likely now that we have another death on our hands.

The conundrum is who to vote for. If we don't reach a conviction, then we'll have a penalty. At the same time, there is the risk that we vote off another townie. Then again, if nobody votes then we'll have a penalty for not reaching a conviction and a penalty for not voting. I'm at a loss, what do other people think?

I'm all for voting, but I don't believe in double penalties. I don't think this poison is the work of god.

[CorneliusMurdock]

I have to agree that Sarah's death is likely not the work of god. I think god would have made her death more strange and random. That said poisoning sounds more like a serial killer or mafia kill rather than a vigilante.

If we are to believe Timur's story, and Eugene pressed others for information like he did Timur, that might make explain his death if it was the vigilante that did it. The other thing to think about is if someone had approached me like Eugene allegedly did Timur, I would have brought it up in the discussion that day. This was suspicious behavior.

[Fugazi]

Of course:

Eugene sent me a message asking if I was vanilla, saying that it 'lead to some evidence' because he believed that 'the lord is playing with us'. Naturally, I took this that he is either: A. scum and wants to know if I'm worth killing, or B. scum and wants to know if I can be converted (as it is usually just vanillas who can be). I responded with extreme caution, asking him what evidence it might bring about as well as why he was over-role-playing. Then he responded back with more role-playing and avoided the vanilla question entirely. I asked him again why he had contacted me, but he just ignored my message and went about with his daily life.

I don't think that makes me suspicious, does anyone else?

Not specially, no. However Eugene appeared to know something about you, something that god himself told him, and only Petr seems to know the full story. It may be important, or completely irrelevant. But Eugene won't be coming back to tell us.

[Tamamono]

Not specially, no. However Eugene appeared to know something about you, something that god himself told him, and only Petr seems to know the full story. It may be important, or completely irrelevant. But Eugene won't be coming back to tell us.

He did say that this post (post #48) made me sound like a vanilla, but I was really just using deduction when I made that post (even though I am vanilla).

[Rick]

I have to agree that Sarah's death is likely not the work of god. I think god would have made her death more strange and random. That said poisoning sounds more like a serial killer or mafia kill rather than a vigilante.

I agree, however I doubt the MO is going to be conclusive. The tommy gun used to kill Eugene would be a typical mafia weapon, yet many seem to think his death is the work of our vigilante.

Not specially, no. However Eugene appeared to know something about you, something that god himself told him, and only Petr seems to know the full story. It may be important, or completely irrelevant. But Eugene won't be coming back to tell us.

Eugene clearly knew something that he didn't share with Timur or anyone who contacted him besides Petr. But, if anyone, only Petr can shed some more light on this issue, now that Eugene is no longer with us.

[Sandy]

No, not my Sarah! First my precious daughters, now my wife! Why, oh Big Voice, why?!

This is almost too much to bear. I can't just helplessly watch as my loved ones die all around me. I've got to know whether I can help our Town or not, that's why I...

Vote: Barbara (BobtheConstructionMan)

The reasons are that I already voted for her yesterday, and she has been flying under the radar today as well. I will change my vote if a more suspicious name comes up - that is, if I can vote at all.

You scumbags, I'm going to get you all for what you did to my wife!

[badboytje88]

Oh dear Samuel, I'm so sorry for your loss.

I say we avenge Sarahs untimely death!

[Brickdoctor]

Great. Another Townie dead. Well, this certainly explains why only Eugene was killed last Night. Other than the improbability of a conversion, we learn basically nothing from this, either, though.

I have to agree that Sarah's death is likely not the work of god. I think god would have made her death more strange and random. That said poisoning sounds more like a serial killer or mafia kill rather than a vigilante.

In addition, god said the penalties for not participating would only be effected if one didn't speak the whole Day, not if one didn't vote.

[Masked Builder]

Oh my. Another dead townie. I'm so sorry for your loss Samuel. I need to consider this awhile before I can vote for someone today.

[Peanuts]

What the hell? I'm assuming that this is one of the night killers, and that he or she has the ability to poison someone and have them die during the daytime. Another option is that Sarah didn't vote yesterday. Perhaps this is a sort of penalty for nonvoters, and she was randomly picked.

I can't believe you actually think about that as an option. There are some reasons why this makes no sence:

1. God hasn't said anything about voting, just about conviction. Why would he warn us about a penalty and not warn us about another?

2. What is the sence of a penalty if you don't make clear it is a penalty? People will just do the same mistakes, as they don't know they can be punished for it.

3. Someone would be punished every day following your theory, as the day ends when a conviction is reached. Well, unless the vote is too split to reach a conviction before everyone voted, but in this case, you wouldn't lynch anyone so there would be another penalty. Your idea is just strange.

Eugene clearly knew something that he didn't share with Timur or anyone who contacted him besides Petr. But, if anyone, only Petr can shed some more light on this issue, now that Eugene is no longer with us.

Maybe, but I wonder what he could have known on day one? If it had been stronger than your reason to convict Benji, why wouldn't he have shared it? If it hadn't been stronger than your reason to convict Benji, what worth did it have at all? And why shall we be suspicious of Timur and Nika only if he dies? The only possibility I see, was, that he told them something which would make him a target if one of those were scum. But what could he have told them? Since he couldn't have evidence against someone, it would have been something about his night actions, but assuming that is the case, why would he tell excatly somebody (Nika) who accused him and somebody (Timur) who wasn't quite on his side during that accusation? That makes no sence. Last possibility is, since it is most likely neither evidence nor a role, that he based his posthumous accusation on the fact he had been charged by Nika and Timur in the day thread, which doesn't make them look suspect in my opinion, or even, that the story was made up (once again, no accusation, just being thorough).

I don't see any other possible scenario, do you?