Extras with train sets

[Vindicare]

I was just curious what the die hard train fans think about this? (I did search, but if I missed it and this has been asked once or a thousand times before, my apologies. Do what you will with this.)

Now, I, for one don't really like the fact that they come with the extras. Main reason is because it really drives up the price. Being a casual train fan(own g only 10194 & 10219. I've skipped out on buying both 3677 Red Cargo Train and 7939 Cargo Train. I still may get them, but not entirely sure. I would like it to be the way it is with the above trains I've purchased and if you want tracks and PF, then buy them separately.

So, what say you, train gurus?

[Brickdoctor]

I'm not a Train guru (yet), but I know that the two most important words in LEGO set design come into play here once again: Target Audience. The Maersk Train and Emerald Night are designed for older collectors. The others are designed for kids who probably want a train that's ready to run right out of the box using only the things in the box.

I personally wish that trains were sold separately from track so you could just buy the track by itself if you so wished, but TLG's decision makes sense.

[LegoSjaak]

I do like that the trainsets come wíth track and PF. Here in the Netherlands it is easy to sell stuff you don't need (except for curved track... ) and it could even be profitable to buy complete sets and sell the cars, PF stuf and track separate. Personally i haven sold anything yet... but if i would have not always enough money, i would consider selling those parts or cars/sets which i do not like so much.

So, let the sets come with track (especially straight track) and PF stuff!

Greetz, LegoSjaak

[Hrw-Amen]

I can see a place for both. When you are getting your first train it is good to be able to buy a bundle and set it and it is all there.

However it would be good also to be able to buy extra trains / coaches ect on there own.

A bit like with actual model railways. You can buy a starter set, then get other bits to add as you want, be that track, rolling stock engines, or trtackside structures.

[22kane]

Either way it doesn't bother me. I have bought extra track packs and I like the large sets that supply it as well. I could see it being an issue if let's say a complete circle of track was included with the Emerald Night. For someone that just wants to display it and doesn't have other trains they would be wasting the track that they paid for. It's probably better to only include it in large sets for that reason.

[medib]

I run 100% 9V so I have no desire to get any of the newer track. The Powerfunctions components aren't too bad,

because I can still run them (independently) on the 9v track that I already own.

[dr_spock]

I don't mind the extras. It makes it easier for gift giving and for those starting out. Sometimes it seems a complete set is cheaper than buying individual components.

[LEGO Guy Bri]

I personally don't care whether or not the I get tracks with PF trains. My main system is 9V and has 9-10 times the track pieces as the PF tracks I have. I only plan make a smaller inner city loop for my motor-less 8404 Trams. I have no plans to make a full line for a train... yet

[1980-Something-Space-Guy]

I agree, these pieces add up to the price, and not all of us have the need to build 10 train loops! Just like normal trains, I think they should be sold separately.

[AndyC]

I'm not convinced that taking the track or PF away would lower the price. Remember TLG designers are given a cost price and then design the set to fit that. Removing track would probably therefore lead to more detailed builds (as seen with EN and the Maersk), but it'd be much harder to sell them to kids. I think the current arrangement with AFOL trains coming track and power-less and more kid friendly starter sets containing all the bits is probably the best strategy overall.

[Piranha]

One of the main reasons I rarely buy on BL anymore for parts is I get the sets that have them in them because I get all the other goodies that come with it.

The same applies for trains although I appreciate the option to buy separate track, PF and locos.

[Pet-Lego]

It seems that price wise the sets that include the PF and Track are a better deal then all the parts separate.

I bought an extra red passenger train set to motorize the Maersk train and add more carriages to my first passenger train.

I can never have enough track, the only thing that was in the set that is still unused in the box is my third PF train controller.

[lightningtiger]

There is an old saying, the more the merrier.....more track the better, especially straight track pieces !

I only have weeks now to wait to get my hands on 3677 and it's track will help this tiger when he does another train show.

Plus PF has to be better than RC anyway !

[Mr Benn]

If it weren't for these 'all in one' sets being sold, it's likely that aside from the odd adult exclusive we would barely have any train sets at all.

In just the same way as it's annoying to have to buy batteries for a toy separately, if you're an average adult who knows they'd like to buy their kid some Lego, but doesn't know all that much about what's available, the last thing they want to do is to have to pick up all the things they need for their kid to enjoy it separately. As far as I know, the only time this really happened with the powered trains is when you had to buy the 12V transformer/controller separately from the sets themselves, but since then they've been very parent friendly 'train sets in a box' which appeal more to the buyer. Nothing would be more disappointing for a kid on Christmas day to receive a train set - only to find you haven't got track to run on/a motor/a controller because it wasn't completely clear they were also needed.

Also remember that for the 'standard' trains, AFOLs are NOT the target audience! These are toys, for kids, in order to generate the Lego train fans of the future! 25 years from now PF stuff might be worth plenty on ebay as kids who receive a nice big Lego train set this Christmas ride the wave of nostalgia, just like with me and my 12V days!

[Duq]

I understand why the train sets are sold the way they are, with track and PF elements. A ridiculous part of their turnover (forgot the exact figure but I think it's over 50%) is made in the run up to christmas. What you want under the tree is a set that has it all.

However, I do wonder if they'd sell more trains if they were cheaper and came without the PF parts. They'd need to sell PF upgrade packs in the same toy shops then to keep things simple. The upgrade pack would contain battery box, train motor, receiver, controller and lights. That way you could buy a push train or, with only one extra purchase, a remote controlled train.

[Sokratesz]

If they were to release a PF 'small' motor I could see a glorious future for motorized track-side accessories.

[Piranha]

I understand why the train sets are sold the way they are, with track and PF elements. A ridiculous part of their turnover (forgot the exact figure but I think it's over 50%) is made in the run up to christmas. What you want under the tree is a set that has it all.

However, I do wonder if they'd sell more trains if they were cheaper and came without the PF parts. They'd need to sell PF upgrade packs in the same toy shops then to keep things simple. The upgrade pack would contain battery box, train motor, receiver, controller and lights. That way you could buy a push train or, with only one extra purchase, a remote controlled train.

Yeah I agree in the brand stores they should carry a PF Train bundle.

[peterab]

However, I do wonder if they'd sell more trains if they were cheaper and came without the PF parts. They'd need to sell PF upgrade packs in the same toy shops then to keep things simple. The upgrade pack would contain battery box, train motor, receiver, controller and lights. That way you could buy a push train or, with only one extra purchase, a remote controlled train.

I think part of the problem is most large retailers don't want to stock the 'extras' packs. They'd rather have an all in one set. And the large retailers are the ones TLG are interested in. I've read company statements from TLG that have basically said 'the large retailers are our only customers'. Those statements were from the bad old days of <insert that tiresome argument> city sets when TLG were being criticised for being out of touch with their end users, so things may have changed a bit, but it does give a bit of an idea of the scale at which management of TLG operates.

I'm pretty sure many of the alternatives for train sales were suggested and even tested during Jacob McKee's time at TLG and the fact we are getting complete trains probably reflects the findings of those experiments (Santa Fe and My Own Train would be close to the right time period I think).

I'm surprised the Toy Story and Hogwarts push trains don't have an easy upgrade path with a link to the Lego website though. I would have thought TLG would like to bolster their direct channels like their website and brand stores with exactly the stuff the big retailers won't touch.

Another suggestion along the same lines; Many HO train retailers in Germany have standard expansion sets to their starter trains. There are a series of track plans, each slightly more complex than the last, using the standard expansion sets. As an example each starter set is an oval, expansions might be a) sidings b) curved passing siding c) straight track d) extra oval for double mainline etc. It might be worthwhile for TLG to show various track plans using the current track packs expanding each of the train sets.

If they were to release a PF 'small' motor I could see a glorious future for motorized track-side accessories.

While I'm not sure how to do this profitably for TLG as an AFOL I'd love it. I guess we need to lobby for the replacement of all the push button lights like in the Winter Toy shop, and the sound bricks like the doorbell in the hillside house to be replaced with a new PF motor and maybe another coloured 6xAAA battery box :-) Actually I don't care how it is powered in the sets, just as long as it has a PF connector, so it could be useful for track-side accessories.

[Sokratesz]

A small motor, 2x2x2 like the old 9v micromotor would be extremely useful for things like cranes, small vehicles, conveyor belts etc, basically everything minifig scale.

[Duq]

And then beside that nice tiny 2x2x2 motor all you need to hide are a 4x4x4 receiver and 4x8x4 battery pack...

Still, I'm hopeful we'll see new PF motors in the not too distant future.

[peterab]

And then beside that nice tiny 2x2x2 motor all you need to hide are a 4x4x4 receiver and 4x8x4 battery pack...

Still, I'm hopeful we'll see new PF motors in the not too distant future.

I'm not sure if it's new, but I've seen photos of a PF motor that is between the sizes of the M and XL and is a little more square from the educational range. I don't keep up with technic much so this could be old news, and I can't even remember where I saw the photo.

At least with a small motor we could run wires around a layout from a transformer. Not totaly purist but it would be a step closer to purist remote control points.

Are you just hopeful, or is there a reasonable source for hope?

[pinioncorp]

I'm not sure if it's new, but I've seen photos of a PF motor that is between the sizes of the M and XL and is a little more square from the educational range. I don't keep up with technic much so this could be old news, and I can't even remember where I saw the photo.

That would be the E Motor.

A smaller motor would be well received, as having some wiring underneath the layout wouldn't be a problem. Having gearing under the layout to hide a huge motor would be a hassle.

[gifinim]

I'm happy with the PF being included with the sets, but I'd really like to see less of the flex tracks and more 'normal' track. I can't understand why TLG are pushing the flex track so much as it must cost so much more to produce than standard straight or curved track, and we need a hell of a lot of it to create any sort of useful length.