Tamamono Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 Less guts, more logic. Roncanator was your vigilante. He only killed once. Remember Zepher being killed? You lead the vote against your vigilante. I'll explain more about Roncanator's role later. Shadows was technically a killer on your side. You also had two (maybe three) watchers, two inventors, a protector, a bodyguard, a blocker and an investigator. Shadows could only kill twice. He would've killed scum anyway, so I don't see where you're not counting him as beefing up the Town kill power. The hijacker could kill you if he hijacked a killing role, but that would stop the vigilante for one night, having an equal amount of kills. With 28 people, there better be some way to make some deaths happen at night. There was a possibility of 5 deaths a night at the beginning (if Shadows gave a grenade and someone used it, Rick Poisoned, and Masked Builder, Fugazi and Roncanator all killed), but that never happened because of blockers, conversions, kills and bulletproof players. After the conversion of Pandora, the false inventor and the inventor opposed each other, so there was a specifically even balance there. Pandora gave gifts on odd nights, iamded on even nights. They couldn't give the same inventions two nights in a row, so that would only have given each side one kill a piece. Still think that's unbalanced? Then so be it. You've got a point, the game was pretty well balanced at the beginning. However, we lost our bodyguard on Day 2, our blocker and our investigator on Night 2, and our first inventor on Night 3. I suppose it's just the way things turned out. I think the worst move on the town's part was lynching Ron; he had possibly the most useful action of all, but why did he never use it!? He claimed to have tracked Bob on Night 1, WBD on Night 2, and when he finally killed, he killed Zepher!? I suppose his conviction was partly my fault, because he and I were planning for him to follow Doc or Panda, and I told Sandy all about it. I think the only thing the town could have used would have been another protector (like a 50% bodyguard from The Forest or a Paranoid Doctor), but overall it was pretty even. I kept hoping that the scum would try to kill a PGO or a Bomb, but nothing happened to either of them throughout the entire game. I guess luck just wasn't on out side. What items could Shadows give? Iamded claimed that he could give guns, shackles, magnifying classes, and vests, but apparently Shadows could give rigged grenades as well.
Hinckley Posted September 6, 2011 Author Posted September 6, 2011 You've got a point, the game was pretty well balanced at the beginning. However, we lost our bodyguard on Day 2, our blocker and our investigator on Night 2, and our first inventor on Night 3. I suppose it's just the way things turned out. I think the worst move on the town's part was lynching Ron; he had possibly the most useful action of all, but why did he never use it!? He claimed to have tracked Bob on Night 1, WBD on Night 2, and when he finally killed, he killed Zepher!? I suppose his conviction was partly my fault, because he and I were planning for him to follow Doc or Panda, and I told Sandy all about it. I would say most of that was Ron not knowing how to properly defend himself. He asked my advice and I've talked to him about a potentially better strategy. I'll post all of that in the notes tonight. I think the only thing the town could have used would have been another protector (like a 50% bodyguard from The Forest or a Paranoid Doctor), but overall it was pretty even. Well, let's see... You had Sirius Black who could protect, badboytje88 who could be a bodygaurd, Shadows could hand out inventions that protected and WhiteFang could protect people from the poisoner. For some reason, when I was putting the roles together 5 forms of protection seemed a bit much. That being said the three people who could protect against night kills never chose to protect and Fangy never chose the same target Rick did. What items could Shadows give? Iamded claimed that he could give guns, shackles, magnifying classes, and vests, but apparently Shadows could give rigged grenades as well. Read the role descriptions, skippy.
Tamamono Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 Well, let's see... You had Sirius Black who could protect, badboytje88 who could be a bodygaurd, Shadows could hand out inventions that protected and WhiteFang could protect people from the poisoner. For some reason, when I was putting the roles together 5 forms of protection seemed a bit much. That being said the three people who could protect against night kills never chose to protect and Fangy never chose the same target Rick did. Well, it's not all the same type of protection, but I guess you're right. You really did set the game up pretty equally, it just seems like it was in favor of the scum because we lost all our night actions early on. Read the role descriptions, skippy. Ah, sorry.
Hinckley Posted September 6, 2011 Author Posted September 6, 2011 Well, it's not all the same type of protection, but I guess you're right. You really did set the game up pretty equally, it just seems like it was in favor of the scum because we lost all our night actions early on. Yes, the Town's performance was coupled with a bit of bad luck. Not sure how far I could really go to adjust for that. However, the reason they were losing some of the roles they were is because the Russians were trying to eliminate other scum, so they were targeting "careful" players. It was lucky they took out the Town roles, but they were proceeding with a good strategy, so I could hardly penalize them for that by beefing the Town back up. The vote is a powerful tool and so is being a knowledgeable and focused Townie. I don't think people realize how much a vanilla townie can accomplish. Ah, sorry. No worries.
CMP Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 No worries. :resentful_glare: He didn't read something, and you say 'no worries'?! Gah.
Hinckley Posted September 6, 2011 Author Posted September 6, 2011 They also earned the right to make the rule changes that hampered the town after fool moons, if I understand correctly. Yes! I forgot about that. "Vote or die," and "No affiliation reveal," were rules changes the scum chose. They were allowed to change one game rule on each Full Moon night. What happened to the players who received Dream Whispers during the first full moon, Peanuts and Tammo, I believe? That was also the scum and a brilliant plan by Foog, but nothing ever came of it in thread. How did it affect your game play, if at all? What did you do with the info behind the scenes? Foog, brilliant plan, but it didn't seem to work. I don't think Peanuts follows my games enough to know to look for an anagram. I'm not sure he ever found the hidden meaning... Or did someone else get the crotch dream? I don't even remember at this point. It's in my notes at home. I can check after work. Freakin' brilliant and hilarious though. Fooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooog!!! :resentful_glare: He didn't read something, and you say 'no worries'?! Gah. He didn't read one thing. Pie, the scum would go through an elaborate plot on the writeboard and you would pop up at the end and ask the question that had been cleared up a day ago. Followed by every other question that had already answered. Then you'd say "Oh sorry, I've read it all now," and then immediately ask another question that had already been answered.
Pandora Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 Hinckles, this was a wonderfully made game, which you clearly put loooads of time and effort into - totally hilarious and always running ahead of time, so thank you for all of your hard work and dedication and for making this sooo much fun for all of us! And I'm glad I (sort of) managed to make someone blow up in the end for you! Congratulations fellow scummers! It was hard work at times, but well worth it and I enjoyed our discussions immensely. I did feel like we made a great team and that we worked very well together, it was also clear that that had been the case before I joined; I was outraged that Rick killed off Kart and def! The writeboard was business-like when it needed to be and hilarious the rest of the time. Thanks for converting me! I have to say Rick, I think you played a stunning game here, clearly neutral retrospectively but not so obvious at the time at all. Your strategies were sound and you made good choices - a very well deserved win (and survival!) Plus, you were the one who unwittingly merged the two mafia factions, thus allowing my conversion. I'm very glad you teamed up with us eventually and that we all won together. Commiserations town, and sorry to anyone who I may have offended, it was all part of the game, as were my reactions to events (mostly) too. A couple of responses from me... The only stress I really had was around day four when the vote on Shadows started. Four people voted for him, and a few others stated that they were tempted, but Shadows, Draggie, and Pandora made it out that I had some axe to grind with him. I'd just like to say that in the vote for Shadows, I had no grudge to bear against you as you think, I even said so on the WB. I laid into you in the thread because I believed you were scum trying to find anyway you could to convict Shadows whom I believed to be town, not because I thought you didn't like him - my last comment about "maybe you just don't like him" or whatever it was, was actually a get-out clause for me. The title of the PM thread I started with Shadows was actually called "Denis the Menace". It's very interesting to read about how sure people were that I was scum, I admit that it was pretty obvious at the end and the last day I was mostly having a little fun (yeah, why hadn't Draggy been lynched?? ), however people seem to have forgotten that I was actually town for half the game. For instance: Convicting Draggy proved to be impossible, and there really was nobody else to clearly accuse (although we were onto Pandora very early on, hence my attempts to make her slip something). You said you were onto me early on... very early in fact - before I was converted. Everything you based your suspicions off were things that had happened or I had done as a townie, so I admire your prescience in knowing before anyone else I would be converted. I defended myself exactly the same way I would have had I not been converted and remained town, and pretty much everything I said to you was true. If it's any consolation, I spent most of the time up until my conversion convinced you were scum and I was planning to launch a vote for either you or def Day 5 anyway. I knew CMP, Draggy, Foog, and Panda were scum! I knew it! (although I figured they were on two different teams) I was only converted on Night 4!! I didn't post in Day 5 until about halfway into the whole "Day" so if you thought I was scum at that point you were basing it off my town game! I'm kicking myself for dismissing my sense that Pandora was scum as an instinctive one, because in all the games she's played she always looks like scum to me. Well, in all of the games (three) you've played with me I've been town 50% of the time (remember I was Town in The Coming Darkness until I was lynched). 50%, that's about as good as guessing, really. EDIT: Just to rub it in real quick, for those of you saying how easy it was to spot Pandora as scum, you actually didn't start suspecting her, in thread, until the first day she was scum. So, you were all basing your suspicions on her behavior as a townie. It was all a very odd mix of strange judgement. I'll be more specific later. So I guess I'm now a player assumed to be scum until lynched otherwise? And also interestingly, my instincts prior to conversion were mostly proved right; I might have been useful to the town. If I'd not been converted, that is...
CMP Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 He didn't read one thing. Pie, the scum would go through an elaborate plot on the writeboard and you would pop up at the end and ask the question that had been cleared up a day ago. Followed by every other question that had already answered. Then you'd say "Oh sorry, I've read it all now," and then immediately ask another question that had already been answered. Point out everywhere this happened on the writeboard. I want to see this. I know about the binoculars and the ratio thing. And don't make a joke about how long it's gonna take, I just want it done.
Brickdoctor Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 What happened to the players who received Dream Whispers during the first full moon, Peanuts and Tammo, I believe? That was also the scum and a brilliant plan by Foog, but nothing ever came of it in thread. How did it affect your game play, if at all? What did you do with the info behind the scenes? Tamamono contacted me about it, and we speculated that it was given by a similar role to the one Shadows had in Bloodbrick, but we never figured it out since at that time he thought and I knew that the note, saying to trust me, was correct.
Hinckley Posted September 6, 2011 Author Posted September 6, 2011 Point out everywhere this happened on the writeboard. I want to see this. I know about the binoculars and the ratio thing. And don't make a joke about how long it's gonna take, I just want it done. Every fifth line. You mean you didn't read all the times I called you out on it? :hmpf: Go find it yourself, Pie! Moron. Tamamono contacted me about it, and we speculated that it was given by a similar role to the one Shadows had in Bloodbrick, but we never figured it out since at that time he thought and I knew that the note, saying to trust me, was correct. Well, yours wasn't an anagram. It literally said you can trust the married guy with the crazy hair. I'm pretty sure Foog meant for it to cause the opposite effect due to how poorly worded and blatant it was. Trying to get you to double think caused a backfire.
CMP Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 Every fifth line. You mean you didn't read all the times I called you out on it? :hmpf: Go find it yourself, Pie! Moron. I tried to read it on my phone half the time (don't try that...) and would constantly miss things, considering I can fit like 1.5 writeboard posts into my screen at once. Blame BlackBerry.
Zepher Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 One thing that I think may have impaired this game is Heroica. I know that you made a joke about it, but I was honestly thinking it as I watched the game progress. God Hincks. You make me want to do two things. 1) Host again, because your games are always so awesome, and they make me creative, and 2) LIVE PAST LIKE FRICKIN' DAY 4 again. I haven't been around for the end game forever. I wish I could have stood with the other warriors of the town because there were just some things that were so obvious that I wish I could have called people out on.
Masked Builder Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 My first four (attempted) kills were random draws. It just turned out they were quiet players. First Sirius Black, then jack pot with Masked Builder, followed by BobTCM, and on night 4 I targeted CorneliusM, who had already blown himself up. I then felt I had to start working on getting the scum numbers down as well, because at that point I thought there were two separate families and that one of the main threats was the number of conversions (I even considered that was one of the family's 'weapon', because there was only one consistent kill ). Because I got both track and watch results on my own targets, I saw KartoffelViking target BobTCM the night I poisoned him, and thought he could be a scum blocker or framer. So, I decided to poison him on night 5. Oh so I was poisoned. Thanks Rick.
def Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 Point out everywhere this happened on the writeboard. I want to see this. I know about the binoculars and the ratio thing. And don't make a joke about how long it's gonna take, I just want it done. I had to PM you to not vote for Dragonator when a lynch was down to the wire... Reading the Writeboard before voting would be sound advice in the next game...
CMP Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 I had to PM you to not vote for Dragonator when a lynch was down to the wire... I didn't need a PM for that. I voted for him so I could unvote later, and seem like a wavering townie rather than a scum for not voting at all. I didn't want to be accused on jumping on the bandwagon if he turned up lynched, but nobody I've seen so far finds it scummy to jump off a bandwagon.
badboytje88 Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 Wow, what a brilliant conclusion to a brilliant game. Thanks for having me Hinck. I'm looking forward to your feedback. I hate getting killed so early in a game! Thanks everyone for playing and congrats to the winners.
The Crazy One Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 Okay, I was pretty embarrassing to the town and was a very large liability, but you know, not great timing for me. I couldn't really do much more to be honest, and I tried my best. Anyway, it was very well hosted by the marvellous Hinckley, and I hope that when things recover for me, I can bounce back into Mafia games, and actually try to win one for once.
Rufus Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 Awesome game, Hinck! Fantastic to watch from the sidelines, and to have reason to cheer on both sides at various times Great work Scummies - you were one hell of a team Even if you were completely transparent at times But who am I to talk?
badboytje88 Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 ^You can blame me for that. My bad. Well I kinda blame myself for it But blaming you sounds very tempting!
Tamamono Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 What happened to the players who received Dream Whispers during the first full moon, Peanuts and Tammo, I believe? That was also the scum and a brilliant plan by Foog, but nothing ever came of it in thread. How did it affect your game play, if at all? What did you do with the info behind the scenes? I contacted Doc telling him about what was in the dream, and while I was suspicious of it, I knew better than to look a gift horse in the mouth. Doc and I got a pretty solid line of communication set up, but after a few days he seemed very reluctant to post anymore, and that's one of the main reasons I was suspicious of him. Foog, brilliant plan, but it didn't seem to work. I don't think Peanuts follows my games enough to know to look for an anagram. I'm not sure he ever found the hidden meaning... Or did someone else get the crotch dream? Peanuts told Sandy and Sandy told me, but I didn't get it. I kept on looking for a hidden message, but I couldn't find one (but I did find one in the Day 7 Conclusion! When Doc was explaining the rules of the gameshow, he said that one teammate would give the other clues about the word. iamded was giving Quarry clues, but Pie and I just kept buzzing and shouting out random answers, so I figured that iamded would be on Quarry's team while Pie would be scum). Hinck, were there any 'red herrings' in the pictures in this game? He didn't read one thing. Pie, the scum would go through an elaborate plot on the writeboard and you would pop up at the end and ask the question that had been cleared up a day ago. Followed by every other question that had already answered. Then you'd say "Oh sorry, I've read it all now," and then immediately ask another question that had already been answered. I was wondering why you kept bringing that up in the Day 7 Conclusion. I was only converted on Night 4!! I didn't post in Day 5 until about halfway into the whole "Day" so if you thought I was scum at that point you were basing it off my town game! And I thought you were scum in FABULAND Housewives too. I'd like to ask everyone; were any of you ever suspicious of me in this game?
Fugazi Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 Ah what a game! Thank you Hinckley for another thrilling experience -- you have had us going through the whole range of emotions once again! And the false Rick conclusion was extremely mean! You almost had me going! I certainly didn't trust Rick to honour our deal, because I couldn't understand why the town didn't have a vigilante. As it turns out, they did have one -- though Roncanator didn't manage to use his powers very often! I'm not very happy with my performance, as I realise that so many people had me nailed as scum. I guess I was saved by Dragonator who was in the spotlight for the major part of the game. On the other hand, our success as a team hinged on Draggy not being convicted, and we were lucky that he brilliantly escaped conviction so many times! It's too bad the dreams we sent Peanuts and Tammo didn't generate any discussion as we had hoped. Taken together, they were designed to have two townies convicted. But Peanuts apparently decided not to share his with anyone, which was the right decision of course! So congratulations to all the players for a fun game, I'm looking forward to playing with you folks again! And thanks to my fellow Russians and Baritones for great team work and lots of laughs!
Brickdoctor Posted September 6, 2011 Posted September 6, 2011 I'd like to ask everyone; were any of you ever suspicious of me in this game? I was. When you first told me about the message, I thought you were scum trying to get me to trust you, trying a novel approach on the old 'fake being Cop and tell 'em what they know is true' thing.
Fugazi Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 Peanuts told Sandy and Sandy told me, but I didn't get it. I kept on looking for a hidden message, but I couldn't find one Oops, I made the enigma too difficult! It was meant to be solved as 'Beware of Timur'
Pandora Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 I was on to Pie and Pandora by Day 5, and I was pretty suspicious of Draggy by that point as well. Sorry, this was the quote I meant to refer to earlier, about you suspecting me at the point I'd barely become scum. And I thought you were scum in FABULAND Housewives too. Then you're... you'd be gravely mistaken, and if you'd thought that back then, when I'd later been shown to be an active Townie, why on earth make the same (wrong) assumption now? I do find it somewhat amusing that the entire time I was Town you "were on to me" being scum, and after I was converted we had some useful conversations where you trusted me enough to provide me with some pertinent information that I was able to verify with my team-mates and subsequently use in my defence.
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