Baritones 3: The Conclusion

[Quarryman]

Yeah, but we still needed at least one townie to vote with us.

Doesn't matter, even if there hadn't been a conviction you would have just killed (at least) one townie the coming Night, taking us down to 4-4 (plus Rick the serial killer) and then with a poisoning of yet another townie voting would have started with 4-3, and you could have voted off whoever you wanted. The End.

[Masked Builder]

Great game Hinckley! I really had fun even if I did die in the third day. I had loads of fun being scum in this game.

Yeah Sandy he told me on the second day. I didn't know that till then.

So why did I die they Hinck? Was it because I didn't post?

[CMP]

Doesn't matter, even if there hadn't been a conviction you would have just killed (at least) one townie the coming Night, taking us down to 4-4 (plus Rick the serial killer) and then with a poisoning of yet another townie voting would have started with 4-3, and you could have voted off whoever you wanted. The End.

No conviction just would have made anyone who split the votes even more suspicious, but I suppose you have a point.

You got poisoned, Mask. And I don't read...

Edited September 6, 2011 by CallMePieOrDie

[Hinckley]

Doesn't matter, even if there hadn't been a conviction you would have just killed (at least) one townie the coming Night, taking us down to 4-4 (plus Rick the serial killer) and then with a poisoning of yet another townie voting would have started with 4-3, and you could have voted off whoever you wanted. The End.

This is correct, so stop arguing with him, Pie. However, it was all up to Rick. He could've won on his own and all he would have to do is vote with the Town and whittle down the remaining scum. The Town believed the poisoner was a vigilante since he took out so many scum. I think it would've been easy for Rick to win this alone. I almost always title one game day "Endgame" because I see that an individual or group has the potential to set in motion a good strategy to the end. This time it was "Endgame?" because Rick could decide to go either way. The "kill everyone" route would have been agonizingly slow, but entertaining. The scum would've outed Rick and he would've outed them claiming vigilante and none of the scum had the best track record for trust at that point. Most fitting "Endgame" title I've ever given to a day thread.

That is one more thing I will say right now, and elaborate later. It was interesting to watch the scum get more and more brazen the more they realized they could manipulate the Town. They were ridiculously transparent towards the end. Noob players study their action in those last couple of days so you can spot it in the future! Please.

[Quarryman]

That is one more thing I will say right now, and elaborate later. It was interesting to watch the scum get more and more brazen the more they realized they could manipulate the Town. They were ridiculously transparent towards the end. Noob players study their action in those last couple of days so you can spot it in the future! Please.

That's always interesting to see. Not quite as obvious as we were near the end of Imperial Soldiers Mafia, but still.

[Sandy]

Well, you can talk about the scum being transparent all you want, Hinck, but the fact is you knew who they were. We Townies didn't, and that fact alone makes it much more difficult to tell who is behaving like a scum and who is not. And even when you suspect someone, you can't really convince others unless you have some kind of proof. Just saying "look at that scummy choice of words!" doesn't cut it, unfortunately.

That's why it was so hard for us to convict def and Draggy, even though I had little reason to doubt Shadows. If he would've just said why he was so sure those two were scum, it would've been much easier. Can you even tell me that now, Shadows?

[Brickdoctor]

Wow. Evidently the Town did deserve to lose that. I'm kicking myself for dismissing my sense that Pandora was scum as an instinctive one, because in all the games she's played she always looks like scum to me.

One question: Was the Paranoid Gun Owner, or was that just in there for the sake of the conclusion?

[Hinckley]

Well, you can talk about the scum being transparent all you want, Hinck, but the fact is you knew who they were. We Townies didn't, and that fact alone makes it much more difficult to tell who is behaving like a scum and who is not.

Ok ok. I'm not saying it's easy. I'm just pointing out that now anyone can go back and look at some of the tactics that make it a little more obvious. Of course it's harder when you're in there and trying to figure it out. I'm just pointing out it's a good reference now for anyone to look back at the behavior.

Don't get me wrong, anybody. I'm not saying the Town was stupid. I'm simply saying that this Town's game was lost and it's all Sandy's fault for being such a moron. No. Sorry, I couldn't help myself. Sandy was one of the more logical townies throughout. The Town had some bad luck and some inexperience and some apathetic players. I wish nobody would've taken the game so lightly as to only halfway check-in once a day. I thought the players would be committed. It's unfortunate the Town couldn't rally the numbers to follow the best leads. That's not for lack of trying on Sandy and iamded's part...and a couple of others.

I have more constructive criticism for people's game play but that will have to wait until after work. Such a fun game, I can't say it enough. Thanks to everyone who played. It's going to be a source of entertainment for me for quite some time to come.

One question: Was the Paranoid Gun Owner, or was that just in there for the sake of the conclusion?

You were and nobody targeted you throughout the entire game. Very disappointing. You were technically the last poison victim, but Rick was bulletproof and he used the strongarm and the Town was lost after the Falicia killed Irene anyway, so it didn't really matter. Yes, neither land mine (bomb or PGO) went off in this game. At least CorneliusMurdock blew up! And I couldn't help but explode Sandy in the conclusion.

[Tamamono]

That is one more thing I will say right now, and elaborate later. It was interesting to watch the scum get more and more brazen the more they realized they could manipulate the Town. They were ridiculously transparent towards the end. Noob players study their action in those last couple of days so you can spot it in the future! Please.

I was on to Pie and Pandora by Day 5, and I was pretty suspicious of Draggy by that point as well. The only one I didn't see through until the end was Foog, and only because he lived so long for seemingly no reason. Also, let's not forget Rick. I honestly thought he was a member of the Town until it was revealed that he was the poisoner. I was under the impression that Quarryman was the poisoner because he didn't die even though he was the quietest one of all! Great job Rick, you are one scary serial killer.

Ok ok. I'm not saying it's easy. I'm just pointing out that now anyone can go back and look at some of the tactics that make it a little more obvious. Of course it's harder when you're in there and trying to figure it out. I'm just pointing out it's a good reference now for anyone to look back at the behavior.

I agree. The Forest was pretty good for reference, but that game was played almost entirely by PM, while this one was a bit more out in the open. I'll have to read through it a few more times before Bloodbrick II (I assume that's the next game?).

Don't get me wrong, anybody. I'm not saying the Town was stupid. I'm simply saying that this Town's game was lost and it's all Sandy's fault for being such a moron. No. Sorry, I couldn't help myself. Sandy was one of the more logical townies throughout. The Town had some bad luck and some inexperience and some apathetic players. I wish nobody would've taken the game so lightly as to only halfway check-in once a day. I thought the players would be committed. It's unfortunate the Town couldn't rally the numbers to follow the best leads. That's not for lack of trying on Sandy and iamded's part...and a couple of others.

I was on obsessively throughout the entire game, but I unfortunately wasn't much help to the Town. And I didn't even go with my gut!

Edited September 6, 2011 by Captain Tamamono

[Rick]

Great game Hinck. You're a brilliant host and as I've said many times already, your enthusiasm really shows. I'm glad to finally have been part of a legendary Baritones game and even survive it.

I think it would've been easy for Rick to win this alone.

Thanks , but you're ignoring the fact that I didn't know I was bulletproof (for all I knew, the scum could take me out at night after Draggy found me targeting def on night 6) and that I had no idea I was facing just one scum family until Draggy and I got in touch.

My first four (attempted) kills were random draws. It just turned out they were quiet players. First Sirius Black, then jack pot with Masked Builder, followed by BobTCM, and on night 4 I targeted CorneliusM, who had already blown himself up. I then felt I had to start working on getting the scum numbers down as well, because at that point I thought there were two separate families and that one of the main threats was the number of conversions (I even considered that was one of the family's 'weapon', because there was only one consistent kill ). Because I got both track and watch results on my own targets, I saw KartoffelViking target BobTCM the night I poisoned him, and thought he could be a scum blocker or framer. So, I decided to poison him on night 5.

Then on day 6, Draggy shared his 'result' on Fangy. I wasn't certain that Draggy was scum (although my best bet was that he was a member of the Baritones because he came out with a 'Baritones' result on Fangy), but I knew if he was scum, they had to be close to winning because of the 'end game' scenario also discussed in the thread. So, I had to make sure the game lasted at least another day and took out someone clearly not allied with Sandy/Fangy/iamded as 'insurance'. I basically had to make a choice between Draggy and def. Because I targeted CorneliusM the night he blew up, I knew he targeted Draggy. I couldn't rule out the possibility that Draggy was bulletproof, so I decided to poison def. After learning Fangy was Town, I planned to contact Draggy immediately after being sure about def's alignment. By that time, Draggy had already contacted me. The rest is the pretty transparent Day 7.

Looking back at the game, the town was really unlucky to lose a few important night actions really early on. Sandy, you honestly tried your best, even though I had strong doubts on the results of JimB you reported. I can't believe the scum got away with causing two Full Moon festivals and avoiding the lynch of Draggy twice. I think the town really failed to advance the game by getting closure on Draggy's (or def's for that matter) alignment. That way the issue just kept lingering.

Well played, scummies. Draggy for avoiding the lynch twice and getting away with those ridiculous claims. def for managing to avoid further suspicion after being 'outed' by Shadows. Pandora for being such a good player to be chosen for conversion and for getting Sandy of your back. CMP and Foog for looking potentially scummy, but never really becoming a serious lynch candidate for the town. KartoffelViking, I wouldn't have suspected you if I hadn't seen you target BobTCM. And Waterbrick Down and Masked Builder just got unlucky early in the game. Congratulations scum! We should have teamed up earlier.

[Sandy]

So the two Mafias could kill us, the poisoner could kill us, the hijacker could kill us, the false inventor could kill us, and I could have killed myself. And we didn't even have a vigilante, just a paranoid gun owner.

Now tell me, how on earth could the Town have won this game?

[CMP]

So the two Mafias could kill us, the poisoner could kill us, the hijacker could kill us, the false inventor could kill us, and I could have killed myself. And we didn't even have a vigilante, just a paranoid gun owner.

Now tell me, how on earth could the Town have won this game?

Hey, the hijacker could only steal a kill, and the false inventor could only make you kill yourself. And you would've killed the killer, which means less kills. And we lost ours when we merged with the Baritones. We're not that murderous.

[CorneliusMurdock]

Now tell me, how on earth could the Town have won this game?

By throwing grenades at the scum of course... oh, wait.

[Hinckley]

Now tell me, how on earth could the Town have won this game?

Less guts, more logic. Roncanator was your vigilante. He only killed once. Remember Zepher being killed? You lead the vote against your vigilante. I'll explain more about Roncanator's role later. Shadows was technically a killer on your side. You also had two (maybe three) watchers, two inventors, a protector, a bodyguard, a blocker and an investigator. Shadows could only kill twice. He would've killed scum anyway, so I don't see where you're not counting him as beefing up the Town kill power. The hijacker could kill you if he hijacked a killing role, but that would stop the vigilante for one night, having an equal amount of kills. With 28 people, there better be some way to make some deaths happen at night. There was a possibility of 5 deaths a night at the beginning (if Shadows gave a grenade and someone used it, Rick Poisoned, and Masked Builder, Fugazi and Roncanator all killed), but that never happened because of blockers, conversions, kills and bulletproof players. After the conversion of Pandora, the false inventor and the inventor opposed each other, so there was a specifically even balance there. Pandora gave gifts on odd nights, iamded on even nights. They couldn't give the same inventions two nights in a row, so that would only have given each side one kill a piece.

Still think that's unbalanced? Then so be it.

[Sandy]

Roncanator was your vigilante.

Then I blame Roncanator for not even once coming out to say "hey, I'm your vigilante, don't vote me out". Shadows was smart enough to do so when votes started piling on him, which led to me unvoting him. Anyway, I was under the impression Roncanator was a tracker like he said, since he knew about Waterbrick Down.

And WhiteFang, "this Town sucks" isn't much of a defense when you still have a chance to get people to unvote you.

[Hinckley]

Hey, the hijacker could only steal a kill, and the false inventor could only make you kill yourself. And you would've killed the killer, which means less kills. And we lost ours when we merged with the Baritones. We're not that murderous.

Good point, thank you. The PGO and bomb are kind of cheap shots against the scum. It doesn't take any skill on the Town's part to have them and they take out a scummy and this Town had both. Neither was used, but that's life... And yes, after Day Three there was only a possibility of two deaths a night until Day 5 when the inventor roles were re-introduced, which never produced a killing. CorneliusMurdock was double killed on the night that the scum converted Pandora and, all things considered, the balance of the roles shows in the fact that it wasn't an awful bloodbath every night despite how many opportunities there were to kill. And it's not my fault Catya is a heroin addict.

By throwing grenades at the scum of course... oh, wait.

I am so sorry. Poor Cornelius always works so hard for the Town. He PMed me to make sure the grenade wasn't rigged. What was I going to tell him? The host can't answer that. So, I said something like "It works the way it says." And he didn't like that so I assured him that it would kill his target. There's not point in making a false grenade in a game if I'm not going to let it be used the way it was intended, and therefore the way the hijacker role was intended to work. I had to tell him it was perfectly normal. He wanted me to make him a robot to deliver it to Dragonator. He even named the robot "The Kaboominator." It was so adorable...and then he exploded. Sorry...

Sorry...

[CMP]

Also, is there a reason I was seemingly the only scum without 10 different night actions to choose from? I felt so useless once Elena was dead.

[CorneliusMurdock]

Also, is there a reason I was seemingly the only scum without 10 different night actions to choose from? I felt so useless once Elena was dead.

Hear that? World's smallest violin. Playing just for you.

And Hinck, I'm not complaining. Except about the Kaboominator. Was a robot too much to ask for a dead fire-woman walking?

I think I did my best and if that means blowing myself up for no apparent reason, so be it.

[CMP]

Hear that? World's smallest violin. Playing just for you.

Hey, you were useful! You were gullible enough to use the grenade for us scum. Thanks!

[Hinckley]

Then I blame Roncanator for not even once coming out to say "hey, I'm your vigilante, don't vote me out". Shadows was smart enough to do so when votes started piling on him, which led to me unvoting him. Anyway, I was under the impression Roncanator was a tracker like he said, since he knew about Waterbrick Down.

He can do either. And he had a two-shot strong-arm, which he used to follow, which I found odd. But, his role PM does say he can strong-arm follow. I think it was inexperience on his part not saying "I'm the Vigiante!" And he could track because I wanted to give him something to help decide who to kill. Vigialntes don't kill on the first night some times. And some (like Foog) don't kill at all, so I wanted to give him the possibility of investigating who the best targets would be. I doubled up a few Town roles. I wanted there to be more vanilla townies because in the last couple games I played, it was easy to peg down who was doing what because there were so many players with roles. I also thought more vanilla townies would lead to more discussion as those without powers would be trying to figure out stuff in thread. Two vanilla townies very rarely showed up to the game, so that didn't work the way I thought it would. Although you and Amy worked on your megablocks even though you didn't have night actions. Well, you were a voteless bomb, but you didn't have any control over that.

Speaking of roles, JimButcher did a great job as Peeping Tom, but I'll get into that during individual feedback. I think the Town had a solid block of four people trying to work it all out behind the scenes. The scum outnumbered that the whole time which made it difficult to sway people to reason. If just two more people would've invested as much as Samuel, Yan and Irene, I think it would've been a different game. I did try to swing the balance when I realized the Town was sinking. But, this scum team was so organized they were always one step ahead and I couldn't take away their gains for no reason. The Town, for the most part, floundered, yes, but the Scum really did work on their megablocks for this win.

Also, is there a reason I was seemingly the only scum without 10 different night actions to choose from? I felt so useless once Elena was dead.

Thank God you were, you would've ducked everything up. Sorry Eurobricks isn't available in braille, you blind shit. But, yes, you were somewhat useless after Elena was dead and completely useless after Stansilav was killed until iamded became the inventor, which he never used. Why does every inventor want to give Sandy a magnifying glass? I got three requests for that, all blocked.

Hear that? World's smallest violin. Playing just for you.

And Hinck, I'm not complaining. Except about the Kaboominator. Was a robot too much to ask for a dead fire-woman walking?

I think I did my best and if that means blowing myself up for no apparent reason, so be it.

I know you're not complaining. It was a job really well done, suicidal or not. I think we'll see a robot in the next version. How else will I ever get people to use inventions again? I'm afraid I've ruined the role for future mafia games.

Hey, you were useful! You were gullible enough to use the grenade for us scum. Thanks!

Hey, leave him alone. It was a really brave move to use that grenade and he did it with the Town's best interest at heart. Way to play with balls, Murdock.

[CMP]

Thank God you were, you would've ducked everything up. Sorry Eurobricks isn't available in braille, you blind shit.

Oh come on, you kept saying Rick couldn't ally with the scum, so I was confused about the numbers, and a death-ray-shooting-pair of binoculars is complicated enough to the point where I didn't know it had small print.

Edited September 6, 2011 by CallMePieOrDie

[CorneliusMurdock]

Way to play with balls, Murdock.

I thought it was a grenade... Or some kind of exploding apple.

[Hinckley]

Oh come on, you kept saying Rick couldn't ally with the scum, so I was confused about the numbers, and a death-ray-shooting-pair of binoculars is complicated enough to the point where I didn't know it had small print.

Even if you knew there was small print, you wouldn't have read it.

I thought it was a grenade... Or some kind of exploding apple.

Kaboominator says, "I have an apple for you."

"But I didn't order any apples!" Draggy replies.

I should've given you your robot and then have you inexplicably blow up despite not being anywhere in the proximity of the death-apple.

[CorneliusMurdock]

Kaboominator says, "I have an apple for you."

"But I didn't order any apples!" Draggy replies.

I should've given you your robot and then have you inexplicably blow up despite not being anywhere in the proximity of the death-apple.

Or Kaboominator has learned how to play fetch.

Kaboominator says, "I have retrieved your apple, Master Nika."

Nika says, "" and Kaboominator lives up to its name.

[Hinckley]

Or Kaboominator has learned how to play fetch.

Kaboominator says, "I have retrieved your apple, Master Nika."

Nika says, "" and Kaboominator lives up to its name.

That would've been adorable with a wagging tail. However, it would've left the town utterly confused. I try to avoid that whenever possible...