Baritones 3: The Conclusion

[KartoffelViking]

Thanks, Hinckley, for a truly epic and entertaining game (some of those interludes would have made Johnny Bode blush)! And I know it takes more than one person to tango, so thanks heaps to all the players as well, especially my scummy partners!

If I could do something differently, I would have been more active in the day threads, writeboard and other channels. I hope to redeem myself in future games. I can't complain about the end result, though, as scum won

[Professor Flitwick]

This was a great game to watch! Some of the funniest day thread openings and conclusions (even though the Petra one was a bit... ). It's a shame I wasn't around to play, but in hindsight, only two of my suspicions were correct.

I don't suppose you would post a 'who was who', concerning the costumes in the Full Moon nights?

Also, how come all of the kills took place in city area of Moonlight, but the Suburban house (present in the first and second games) were absent? I'm aware it's a strange question, but it's just something I started thinking about on the penultimate day.

[Hinckley]

I don't suppose you would post a 'who was who', concerning the costumes in the Full Moon nights?

That's definitely coming. I have some deleted scenes from the Full Moon Festival as well. Don't worry. They're nothing as crazy as Petra's R2 fetish.

Also, how come all of the kills took place in city area of Moonlight, but the Suburban house (present in the first and second games) were absent? I'm aware it's a strange question, but it's just something I started thinking about on the penultimate day.

It's a good question. I wanted to use that house, but I was very busy. I didn't have time to re-build it. I considered it. I suppose if Samuel would've blown up I would've liked it to be in his house, but time didn't allow me to build that new this time. I spent a ton of time drumming up the parts to reconstruct those trucks. I also had an elevated train track ready to take place of the park that used to be across the street. Ultimately, time didn't allow for me to set that up. I was really busy during this game and re-building some things (The park and the house) would've just delayed new day threads.

[Rick]

Why did you need to know our most embarrassing moment? I'm not even sure I want to know the answer to that, actually

[Shadows]

I do find it interesting that you realised I was scum but still followed my advice and told Roncanator to kill Zepher.

Actually made perfect sense, I was already certain of the two families and just figured you were on different ones.

[Hinckley]

Why did you need to know our most embarrassing moment? I'm not even sure I want to know the answer to that, actually

Your role was originally going to be based off of it. You would decide how to kill each person based on their embarassing moments. I discarded it at the last minute because I like the poisoner better.

One of these days, I'll use the poisoner the way it's intended. The person dies the following night. Harder to track that way.

[def]

I like the poison kill as it is now. It's a little shocking at first, but it's a nice dangling sword over the day thread. I'd use it myself, but I'm not a copy-catter. It could be twisted to a death in the 48th hour, but letting any vote made stick... That would encourage voting.

[Hinckley]

I like the poison kill as it is now. It's a little shocking at first, but it's a nice dangling sword over the day thread. I'd use it myself, but I'm not a copy-catter. It could be twisted to a death in the 48th hour, but letting any vote made stick... That would encourage voting.

I thought of that. What I like about the delayed death is that the Night Action of the victim still works. Action roles work anyway if a player is killed, but in my games informative roles won't. With the poisoner, if the person poisoned has an informative role, they will still get their results and have 24 hours to relay them to someone else.

I don't mind copying other roles from other games. If it fits with your game mechanics, go for it.

[TheBoyWonder]

Brilliant Game Hinckley! I read the whole way through! Every piece of scenery, every bit of story I loved.

Just one question, will your next Mafia School be a sequel to Fabuland Housewives?

[Hinckley]

Brilliant Game Hinckley! I read the whole way through! Every piece of scenery, every bit of story I loved.

Just one question, will your next Mafia School be a sequel to Fabuland Housewives?

Thank you. I'm not sure what my next game will be. I'll probably take a little break from hosting. It's been a while since I've been able to really play a game.

[JimBee]

[snip, talking about the SK Role]

Ah, I see now. It's true, I feel like the SK without these special advantages would be sending a neutral player into an unwinnable game (which is how I felt after Werewolf... sorry Rick and TinyP!). Like you said, the tracking/watching ability was a little too much, but then he needed it to find scum.

I just thought the whole relationship with the two families and the SK was too complicated.

Maybe the last thing to mention: JimB, we knew you were the tracker early on. Telling WBD the watcher was contacting you I enjoyed asking Sandy repeatedly why the watcher wasn't tracking Dragonator. Good times, good times...

Ha, to be honest with you I hadn't considered that. I figured that WBD would've told you guys, but I thought he believed my story anyway. I never realized the scum would put two and two together and know that it was me.

I remember blowing up in the Sandy-Tammo-JimB PM about you. "Def is really getting on my nerves, he keeps asking about me!".

Your role was originally going to be based off of it. You would decide how to kill each person based on their embarassing moments. I discarded it at the last minute because I like the poisoner better.

That's what I figured when I signed up, it's a shame that wasn't used. It probably would've been hilarious, but also somewhat confusing, I can imagine.

[Hinckley]

That's what I figured when I signed up, it's a shame that wasn't used. It probably would've been hilarious, but also somewhat confusing, I can imagine.

I snuck a couple references to the embarassing moments in the plays, but only for Big Cam and Waterbrick Down. I gave up after that.

[badboytje88]

Thank you. I'm not sure what my next game will be. I'll probably take a little break from hosting. It's been a while since I've been able to really play a game.

I'm looking forward to playing another game with you. I always enjoy having you around in a Mafia Game.

[Hinckley]

Second post has now been update with player analysis, game analysis, out-takes and clues in pictures...

For the last time, Thank you everybody! Great game!

I'm looking forward to playing another game with you. I always enjoy having you around in a Mafia Game.

Thanks, buddy! I'm looking forward to it, too.

[Brickdoctor]

Boris

Host feedback: Well, you survived the whole game, that's definitely something. In this case, I believe it was more because you weren't a threat to either side. The scum didn't fear you, and the Town didn't seem to rely on you for any major theories. You seemed to be a pawn at times and that's probably due to you still being somewhat in noob mode. I hope you are developing your own strategies as you play more and more. You did hammer Quarryman which pretty much ended the game. I can see why, but you have to work on those instincts and watching the voting pattern. Usually the scum split up their votes, but the pattern was blatant in this one because they just needed on more death to win it.

Completely agreed. I'm not happy with my performance, though this was the first time I've played a true, full-fledged game, and I've learned a lot from it.

[JimBee]

To reply to some of the new additions:

Yan follows/tracks Raya. Result: Unsuccessful (He is murdered)

What made you target Rick here. I found that interesting. Only one other person suspected him at the time...

I had actually planned to watch Rick on Night One, because I had the role that I gave him in Werewolf. Call it metagaming, call it random, whatever, it's just too bad I didn't. I blame Zepher for painting a target on himself.

I targeted him Night Five for quietness and overall suspicion. Going along with the crowd, but having independent thoughts as well, made him puzzling to me.

- My favorite language is Fanglish.

I think I mentioned this in Day 3, but I did notice the dynamite and wondered if it meant anything. I still don't get how we would know Sandy was a bomb.

In Werewolf everyone seemed to have a role, so it was easy to verify people.

I know, which is a lesson learned. I actually found a game with no night actions (Belville) to be a nice break from games like that with a bunch of power roles. I think you found a nice balance with the half-power, half-vanilla coffee/energy drink blend town.

Thanks for the feedback, by the way. I suppose you're right, it's frustrating to lose no matter what, but I'm glad I survived long enough to use my role to some extent. I really did enjoy using it.

[Hinckley]

I still don't get how we would know Sandy was a bomb.

I guess that is because only the Scum could catch it, but they didn't. Since Vera is seen blocking Samuel, and Samuel had the dynamite at his feet the previous Full Moon, they could infer that he is the bomb...but I guess that's a bit of a stretch.

Nobody saw the syringe!!! In all fairness, you can't see it at all in the second Full Moon Night...

[WhiteFang]

Hinck, once again, thank you! You are truly dedicated and committed to bring this latest mafia installment with great fun and enjoyment. Appreciate it very much, especially for you to take your time to update the posts with our profiles, game and players' analysis all in one place in an organised structure.

Host feedback: It would be nice to see you be as passionate and fight for the Town before you are convicted. Never give up, either. You gave up on the Town towards the end instead of giving them everything they needed to know once you were convicted. You said everything you needed to probably, but it's harder for people to find wrapped in insults and death wishes. Well, I know you are very busy, but I do wish to see you lead the Town. You've played a lot and you usually have a good idea of what is going on. You can really lead the Town if you tried, I think.

You are very right. I gave up on them, because they are not taking me seriously as I thought I would like. People are doubting me, and I got no qualms of them doubting me, of course, but if everything is shared in the light (public) and if my assumptions are wrong, then more will go down.

I didn't have concrete evidence, even though I can cook my assumptions up and I wasn't sure or completely certain when I first received the information by Shadows before he is dead and after he is dead, I don't have much clarification. I had to work from the inside to establish contact on my own, with Sandy, Cornelious, iamded, Tammy, Jimbee, and even maintain in touch with scums like def and Fugazi. I suspected Fugazi a little, is mainly because he was very caution by responding to me short and sweet, which is one of the scum's trait. I can't confirm, but it was only a gut feeling.

I had my diffculties as I shared my known intel in private, hoping to gain their trust, but appartently, not all trusted me with open arms and I can't fault them on this. At the same time, these people are also unwilling to share more of their personal information too and that's sucks since I know it can't be as fun as trusty like Cornelious who tells me everything. But, when I am dead, I will expect them to work on my lead and start hunting them, even I got the grenade interpretation wrong, but I can at least hope to explain it in a logical manner.

Geez, it's extremely agnoy to feel that my death had gone to waste and at that stage, I knew the townies are beyond hope right after the minute they convicted me. I did insist that they are no 2 scum familes, because I believed ultimately, they will merge into one victor. I had to believe in this manner, thinking that it will be disadvantage to our cause, plus the fact that the SK always work together with the scum. With all of that factors in place, the scums will secure their win. The powerhouse roles for townies are dead in the earlier days, so we can only depend on one another to drive our cause. Of course, I am partly to blame for being inactive during the earlier days.

Plus the fact, that none of my protection works, except protecting Cornelious. But still, I should have stopped and insisted him not to use, even after verifying with Hinck. I knew Hinck always wanted a "BOOM" in his game, and our dear Cornelious granted his wish.

I also remembered the last time that I start talking actively, I was almost burnt alive. Geez, that was a nasty experience. Still, I will try my best to contribute to any mafia games as much as I can, whenever possible, because it's always fun to be part of it. Will try my best to be a leading townie next time!

[Waterbrick Down]

Host feedback: You are one to watch, my friend. The guy with the cool and obscure movie reference screen name. (That movie is awesome, but so bizarre for a cartoon!!) In Fabuland Housewives, you were brought in on a sting operation and played your part in it very well. You then, unfortunately failed to convict MacK but otherwise, played an awesome game. In this one your strategy continues to prove sound. I know you played down your involvement, but what you did as scum was pretty good. I especially appreciated that your proxied CorneliusMurdock. It was a good way to earn his trust. It was a risk, but a smart one. OK, advice for the future: when you're caught targeting a player that was night killed, don't claim tracker. That's a scummy role. Claim something ridiculous, thief, Vampire Hunter^TM, anything as long as it's not Tracker. Scum usually have the weaker tracker role to see who has a night action. With three other trackers running around, your claim was doomed. When caught, make a bold claim. You defended yourself really well. Getting in there and fighting is a very Townie move. If you find yourself in that position again, take it a little further with "I want what's best for this town and you'll learn from my death but I have better ways to help than to just be lynched." I think you did an excellent job in this game.

Thanks Hinckley for the feedback, I'll have to work on my scum line a little more though I'm a true townie at heart and miss the in the dark collaborative feel that only vanilla's get to enjoy Now that I know more about trackers a change of role claims would have made sense, I just felt I could pull of a reporter's night actions if I had survived the lynch rather than a role I couldn't follow through with I'm not sure if you may be confusing Cornelius's proxy with someone else, but he did vote Ruxana instead of me on Day 3.

I do want to say a congratulations to def for running our Russian Mafia, there were some pretty hard times especially on Day 3, but up until then you lead us pretty strong.

Jim B, good game to you as well, even though I had to trail you out on a line. Hopefully next time we can work on the same side.

Out of curiousity Tamamono, what were your thoughts on my last statements about Pandora? I sent that message to 3 other people with different conclusions hoping it may cause some suspicions to be drummed up against her. Then I found out about our opportunity to merge with the Baritones and then she was converted Thank goodness most of the people I had contacted were pretty much dead by that point or that could have really backfired

[CorneliusMurdock]

At the same time, these people are also unwilling to share more of their personal information too and that's sucks since I know it can't be as fun as trusty like Cornelious who tells me everything.

I contacted you because you mentioned in thread you'd been in contact with Shadows and I wanted to try to figure out if the grenade was from him. It was really you or Sandy at that point and since we'd been in contact before in previous games, I figured I'd be able to better gauge if you were scum or not. A few messages back and forth only seemed to tell how guarded we both were and time was running out for that day.. So I decided, screw it, and just told you all about the grenade. I was really glad that my instinct to trust you turned out to be right. Unfortunately you couldn't tell me where the grenade came from either, so I had to make a judgment call.

Plus the fact, that none of my protection works, except protecting Cornelious. But still, I should have stopped and insisted him not to use, even after verifying with Hinck. I knew Hinck always wanted a "BOOM" in his game, and our dear Cornelious granted his wish.

I was probably too gung ho about using it anyway for you to talk me out of it. I blame being vanilla too often. In the Forest it wasn't until really the very last day that I was a trusted Monk and in the Asylum all I had to do after I was converted was try to act the same as I had before. I thought if I could take out Draggy, that I would make a serous contribution to the town. And how stupid would I have felt if I never used the grenade and at the end of the game it was perfectly safe?

Thanks for the feedback, Hinck. I'm a big fun of you, too.

I guess the thing I don't understand from what everyone's said is why everyone was talking to Captain Tamamano. I was the pretty one out of the siblings.

[Rick]

Thanks Hinck for the feedback. I really appreciate all the time you put into evaluating a game and making sure everyone has at least one take-away from the game.

Ah, I see now. It's true, I feel like the SK without these special advantages would be sending a neutral player into an unwinnable game (which is how I felt after Werewolf... sorry Rick and TinyP!). Like you said, the tracking/watching ability was a little too much, but then he needed it to find scum.

It was not unwinnable at all. It was just a totally weird mix thrown together in one role: neutral voteless watcher. So, I just played Town with Hinck and Arjay. The neutral alignment didn't really hurt. The Stupid Rouge with the pickaxe did.

I had actually planned to watch Rick on Night One, because I had the role that I gave him in Werewolf. Call it metagaming, call it random, whatever, it's just too bad I didn't. I blame Zepher for painting a target on himself.

I love Zepher. Looks like I got pretty lucky on night 1 and it looks like I flew under the radar long enough after that.

I targeted him Night Five for quietness and overall suspicion. Going along with the crowd, but having independent thoughts as well, made him puzzling to me.

Well-spotted.

[RileyC]

Thanks for the feedback Hinckley!

Im definitely taking all this on board for the next time I get selected for a mafia game. I agree that I didnt fight at all. I just thought what ever I said wouldnt change it at all and there really was no point of trying to argue against Sandy because I really had no support at all cause all my allies had pretty much been killed. I shouldve unloaded all my crap on the table but all I had was suspicions and mine are as good as the next guys. I had no idea that the people who were scum were actually scum. They all threw me.

Anyone else have a little comment about my game? Did I seem like I did the right things in the game thread? Was the way I PMed fine? Anything to tweak or develop to make it a bit better at all?

[iamded]

Kudos to Hinck for not only putting so much effort in to give us a great game, but for putting so much effort into the post-game, commenting on everyone's performance, and revealing every detail we could possibly want to know. It's like the Special Features part of the DVD. That's dedication! Excellent work Hinck.

[Tamamono]

Out of curiousity Tamamono, what were your thoughts on my last statements about Pandora? I sent that message to 3 other people with different conclusions hoping it may cause some suspicions to be drummed up against her. Then I found out about our opportunity to merge with the Baritones and then she was converted Thank goodness most of the people I had contacted were pretty much dead by that point or that could have really backfired

At first I was very suspicious of her, and even tried to get Ron to follow her that night, but once you were revealed as scum I pretty much left it alone. Then when I got into contact with JimB, he told me that you told him that Pandora didn't have a night action, I started to think about it. You did a pretty good job causing confusion at the end there, WBD.

Host feedback: Will you please change your name to Gutsy McGutson? I can't tell you how many times you used that term in this game and were wrong. I rolled my eyes every time. But, remember, Baritones 3 - Day 7 - post 24, your instincts were dead on! You casually guessed the entire strategy of the scum and the wrench that had been thrown in their works. It never went anywhere but you had it exactly. Keep honing those gut instincts and hopefully it won't be a joke in the future. Maybe Tammo's gut instincts will be something Mafia players will fear.

Thanks, Hinck! I tried not to use my guts too much, and even used my head a bit this time, but I suppose I'll never be able to stop the crazy theories. But I'm glad to see that I was finally right! I hope to be able to play with you in the next game.

Thanks again for letting me play! I had an incredible time playing with everyone, and I hope to be able to play in a game with you all again soon!

[def]

Thanks for the feedback Hinck. About me getting called scum the first day, it did piss me off, because the reasons were equally stupid as those that got Big Cam and all the others who were town called scum. Let's review: there is an ambiguous penalty that people were afraid of. I say we should find out what it is, and that a worst case scenario is a vanilla townie gets killed off. Then five people say I want a townie voted off

So, what was the real penalty? A little one-day rule change and a dream message That versus voting off a townie day one.... I will keep my opinion that the townie move is to know what the penalty is rather than shit your pants over it and start killing each other. Remember that people, when I get labeled scum for thinking about things in future.

then Sandy proposes the crackhead theory that my vote for Zepher was based on saving Bob.

I was convinced I was on a retard farm for the first few days there. Not a pretty sight. Take a deep breath, count to 10....

Anyway, I also want to commend Watrbrick Down for his great play. He was backed into a corner, and didn't stand down. He sent conflicting statements about Pandora to people that worked to Pandora's advantage days later in the game for establishing her vanilla creds. And he very nearly wasn't convicted. Unfortunately, there was still a few sensible players. It was painfully obvious Roncanator was town to me, but WBD had a number of people giving him their trust. Very, very impressive job.

And thanks to WF for seeing my town play day one! One of the few who recognized it! And be sure, I was playing it as town, making sure any accusations were based on something, and not random shit flinging, which scum could get away with in the late days.