Hero Factory 2012

[CabooseBM]

No, they stopped Bionicle because it stopped selling well.

[Darth Nihilus]

Hero Factory Breakout ?

Why would they choose this when there are so many great ideas out there. Wild West and flying heroes come to mind, but there are many others. I have been skeptical about this theme since the start, and was actually starting to like it with 3.0, but now this....

I hate 1.0 heads!

Why did they have to reuse those awful designs? The only sets I'm getting are Rocka (for the Bionicle-like mask) and Toxic Reapa (for the lime green.) I may also get Evo, but the rest of the heroes are

[Tanma]

Hero Factory Breakout ?

Why would they choose this when there are so many great ideas out there. Wild West and flying heroes come to mind, but there are many others. I have been skeptical about this theme since the start, and was actually starting to like it with 3.0, but now this....

I hate 1.0 heads!

Why did they have to reuse those awful designs? The only sets I'm getting are Rocka (for the Bionicle-like mask) and Toxic Reapa (for the lime green.) I may also get Evo, but the rest of the heroes are

Well as police figures they had to do a prison break arc sometime.

There are other plots that Lego can consider though, given the science fiction nature of the theme. I hope one day a group of Heroes travel to a mirror universe, where a Dark Lord Furno rules their reality with fear.

[Vinyl Scratch]

Well as police figures they had to do a prison break arc sometime.

There are other plots that Lego can consider though, given the science fiction nature of the theme. I hope one day a group of Heroes travel to a mirror universe, where a Dark Lord Furno rules their reality with fear.

Do not want.

Somethings are best kept in place.

But I do wish we see a saga of Time-travel. Imagine Stormer with a top hat and a monocle

[The Iron Knight]

All I'm hoping for is that Breakout will continue into the summer, having Stormer, Bulk, Stringer, Nex, and maybe a new hero (wouldn't mind a Thresher set) as the protagonists. Maybe a villain with a build similar to the Witch Doctor will be amongst the summer wave's sets.

Edited September 25, 2011 by The Iron Knight

[Mesonak]

Hero Factory Breakout ?

Why would they choose this when there are so many great ideas out there. Wild West and flying heroes come to mind, but there are many others. I have been skeptical about this theme since the start, and was actually starting to like it with 3.0, but now this....

I hate 1.0 heads!

Why did they have to reuse those awful designs? The only sets I'm getting are Rocka (for the Bionicle-like mask) and Toxic Reapa (for the lime green.) I may also get Evo, but the rest of the heroes are

I see no problem with the 1.0 heads; they breathe a lot of the sets original characters back into their designs; the designs of most of the sets (bar BP and Splitface) are solid. I see no problem with this wave, and gladly prefer a prision break arc to some of the more ridiculous theme ideas (wild west, carnival, etc.)

[Aethersprite]

I do hope Lego fixes Black Phantom, he has quite the potential to be a great set, given the plethora of parts he has. Also, I just noticed that bug shooter is actually handheld, and not part of his hand. If you look closely you'll notice that it might actually be a real bug, with the Savage Planet claws as tiny legs. Pretty interesting.

[Aanchir]

True, but when has a system like this worked for Lego? When have they constantly repeated the same basic story for more than say, 3 years? Themes like Exo-Force and Alpha Team have only lasted a few years.

But when you think of it, BIONICLE is the only theme to have lasted longer than three years based on a more complex story than those themes. The other long-running LEGO themes-- City, Castle, etc.-- had even less complex stories than Hero Factory, lacking even named characters. And meanwhile, the Hero Factory story is a bit more complex than you seem to give it credit for. True, they need new Hero upgrades and new villains every year; that's a given giving the release pattern the sets follow. But in the meantime, the theme does seem to have some character development, as seen in the television episodes.

Yeah, well the reason Lego ended Bionicle was because it was becoming too dark, story-wise. This must mean atleast SOME kids pay attention to the story.

The problem was that the sets were no longer selling as well as they once had, as Caboose said. And if the story was a factor in the change in sales, it was probably more a matter of the story becoming too large and complex for new fans to jump in easily than a matter of it becoming too dark. If the problem were something as simple as the story becoming too dark, then the next year of story could simply have been written with a lighter tone.

[Tanma]

But when you think of it, BIONICLE is the only theme to have lasted longer than three years based on a more complex story than those themes. The other long-running LEGO themes-- City, Castle, etc.-- had even less complex stories than Hero Factory, lacking even named characters. And meanwhile, the Hero Factory story is a bit more complex than you seem to give it credit for. True, they need new Hero upgrades and new villains every year; that's a given giving the release pattern the sets follow. But in the meantime, the theme does seem to have some character development, as seen in the television episodes.

The problem was that the sets were no longer selling as well as they once had, as Caboose said. And if the story was a factor in the change in sales, it was probably more a matter of the story becoming too large and complex for new fans to jump in easily than a matter of it becoming too dark. If the problem were something as simple as the story becoming too dark, then the next year of story could simply have been written with a lighter tone.

Personally I think Bionicle ended because it had grown to powerful, and the other themes betrayed it out of jealousy. But I also believed that Ninjas would kidnap me in my sleep for many years, so I clearly have loose ties to reality.

On the matter of castle, it depends on your point of view if it lasted very long. The different fractions changed frequently, and rarely did one single fraction last long. To me the castle series, along with space; was really just a bunch of reboots. Classic space did last a long time though. City was the same theme for ages with no reboots, but keep in mind city has no plot whatsoever.

Edited September 26, 2011 by Tanma

[Aanchir]

Personally I think Bionicle ended because it had grown to powerful, and the other themes betrayed it out of jealousy. But I also believed that Ninjas would kidnap me in my sleep for many years, so I clearly have loose ties to reality.

On the matter of castle, it depends on your point of view if it lasted very long. The different fractions changed frequently, and rarely did one single fraction last long. To me the castle series, along with space; was really just a bunch of reboots. Classic space did last a long time though. City was the same theme for ages with no reboots, but keep in mind city has no plot whatsoever.

Yeah, Classic Space was what I was talking about in that particular case. Classic Castle, too, but I guess you have a point about the frequent changing of factions. Pirates is another theme that lasted for several years, and it had plentiful named characters, but still not as deep a story as BIONICLE.

My main point, though, was that a toy line doesn't necessarily need an epic story with multi-year mysteries to keep selling strongly. Hero Factory may be heavily character-driven like BIONICLE, but that doesn't mean that BIONICLE represents the only way for a character-driven story to be successful. Note that unlike BIONICLE, which had 2001 as a very obvious "starting point" for the story (and many subsequent "jumping-on" points like in 2006 and 2009), Hero Factory's first story arc in 2010 doesn't start with some prophetic change in the status quo like the arrival of the Toa. Rather, the main characters are either full-fledged and well-established Heroes or moderately experienced rookies.

So really, 2010 is a "starting point" for the story, but any other wave can be just as valid a starting point for new fans-- unlike BIONICLE's attempts at rebooting the story in 2006 and 2009, which tended to begin with fresh characters but quickly wind up making references to older story that would be completely lost on newer fans. BIONICLE attempted to alleviate this in 2008 with BIONICLEstory.com's updated design, which included character blurbs on all past sets, location information, and story year summaries. But, having not met anyone who first became a BIONICLE fan in 2008 onward, I can't say for certain whether this was enough for new fans to follow the story with the same dedication as long-time fans. But I have a feeling Hero Factory's less backstory-dependent storyline might have more of a chance of getting new fans involved each wave than BIONICLE's.

The newest wave of Hero Factory may eliminate the "version numbers" of the Heroes for this very reason. A glaring "2.0" will automatically get people asking what came before. But these newer set names don't even suggest that these are new versions of the characters.

[Tanma]

To me the backstory and in-depth stories are much more enjoyable, as they force the reader into a deeper connection with the story. For example in one Bionicle, Zaktan has found a wall detailing Makuta's plan. Not only is the plan extremely detailed, but it is said tohavedire consequences for the universe. The fact that this, written ages ago, had plansin case a To a of Lightever existed showed that Makutawas ready for everything. And so the fans began to dig, looking for clues in the years of the past. It was like an Encyclopedia brown novel, the clues were there, you just had to look for them. With a detailed story, you can lay clues years ahead of their culmination point, if scone right.

[Vinyl Scratch]

asdf wall of text.

I do hope Lego fixes Black Phantom, he has quite the potential to be a great set, given the plethora of parts he has. Also, I just noticed that bug shooter is actually handheld, and not part of his hand. If you look closely you'll notice that it might actually be a real bug, with the Savage Planet claws as tiny legs. Pretty interesting.

...

Holy.

It looks like a cuteish evil beetle of doom <3

Do want.

[vexorian]

Well, regardless of anything, I prefer HF. The story was never my objective. But HF 2.0 are definitely a superior toy. The new system is great and the pieces have amazing quality, they just don't break. It got ridiculous with Bionicle (including the first HF wave) how bad the plastic looks in some pieces and how incredibly easy it is for joints to break, it is not even funny. Of all the HF 1.0 heroes I bought, everyone has at least one broken joint, and we didn't really get to use them that much. And that's something they inherited from Bionicle , because Glatorians and mystika were just as resistant.

Edited September 26, 2011 by vexorian

[Bfahome]

I wonder if the buggy thing will stay silver or if it'll be black/gunmetal like Thornraxx's head.

[Aanchir]

To me the backstory and in-depth stories are much more enjoyable, as they force the reader into a deeper connection with the story. For example in one Bionicle, Zaktan has found a wall detailing Makuta's plan. Not only is the plan extremely detailed, but it is said tohavedire consequences for the universe. The fact that this, written ages ago, had plansin case a To a of Lightever existed showed that Makutawas ready for everything. And so the fans began to dig, looking for clues in the years of the past. It was like an Encyclopedia brown novel, the clues were there, you just had to look for them. With a detailed story, you can lay clues years ahead of their culmination point, if scone right.

Well, on one hand, I agree. That was also something I loved about A Series of Unfortunate Events by Lemony Snicket (when BZPower gets back, you might come across my embarrassingly-shallow ASOUE-themed blog, The Sugar Bowl). Today, I get the same sort of enjoyment from the Golden Sun video games (I don't play them, but my twin brother does) and Avatar: The Last Airbender, both incredibly deep and rich pieces of storytelling.

But on the other hand, while the clues were there from the beginning, dragging the mysteries out like BIONICLE did took a lot of patience even for people who were fans from the beginning, and I'm sure it was outright exhaustive for new fans. They would have to first get situated with the current story, which with BIONICLE's huge lexicon and complex science-fantasy universe would be hard enough, and then dig around for the story materials from years past. Someone who could not afford to buy the entire BIONICLE Adventures series would have a lot of difficulty understanding all that happened in those books, I'd wager.

And incidentally, I think the reason BIONICLE couldn't do as well as franchises like A:TLA, ASOUE, or Star Wars is the fact that it was, at its roots, a toy line. TLG couldn't afford to promote story materials from years and years ago; BIONICLEstory.com was the closest they ever came to making that sort of knowledge available to everyone. With franchises that are by nature based on story media like books, movies, and TV shows, it's a lot easier to promote the older story, because it's still one of the main things making the company money. In contrast, BIONICLE's books, comics, and movies never became more than a side-venture for TLG (many AFOLs would consider this a good thing, feeling non-building-toy products stray from TLG's "core values").

asdf wall of text.

...

Holy.

It looks like a cuteish evil beetle of doom <3

Do want.

Protip: the body is the same part as Thornraxx's head, so if Black Phantom is a big disappointment you could easily make your own "beetle-blaster" from the parts of smaller sets.

Sorry for continuing to build the Great Wall of Text with this post. I promise there is no slave labor going towards its construction!

Well, regardless of anything, I prefer HF. The story was never my objective. But HF 2.0 are definitely a superior toy. The new system is great and the pieces have amazing quality, they just don't break. It got ridiculous with Bionicle (including the first HF wave) how bad the plastic looks in some pieces and how incredibly easy it is for joints to break, it is not even funny. Of all the HF 1.0 heroes I bought, everyone has at least one broken joint, and we didn't really get to use them that much. And that's something they inherited from Bionicle , because Glatorians and mystika were just as resistant.

This is a fair point, but it should be considered that some of Hero Factory's changes in the 2.0 sets are largely continuing the same trends BIONICLE started as it became less of a Technic theme and more of an independent building system. One criticism HF 1.0 got a lot was that it was "just BIONICLE with a different name", and while there were some obvious aesthetic differences between the two themes, the core building experience didn't change too significantly. From there it would have been just a hop, a skip, and a jump for BIONICLE to follow the same path towards a ball joint-based build.

It might be a mercy for me that BIONICLE didn't continue in this way, because it's a lot easier to ignore whining about Hero Factory replacing BIONICLE than to ignore loud, outspoken complaints about BIONICLE, heaven forbid, changing in any way. The Inika obviously didn't do as much for action figure themes as HF 2.0, but they and every wave of sets that followed would be criticized for being "too different" from classic BIONICLE or "not different enough" from the sets that came immediately before them.

[Darth Nihilus]

Well, regardless of anything, I prefer HF. The story was never my objective. But HF 2.0 are definitely a superior toy. The new system is great and the pieces have amazing quality, they just don't break. It got ridiculous with Bionicle (including the first HF wave) how bad the plastic looks in some pieces and how incredibly easy it is for joints to break, it is not even funny. Of all the HF 1.0 heroes I bought, everyone has at least one broken joint, and we didn't really get to use them that much. And that's something they inherited from Bionicle , because Glatorians and mystika were just as resistant.

This is exactly why I hate 1.0 heroes. Don't get me wrong, I loved Bionicle, despite it's obvious flaws in posability and plastic strength. But my Bionicle's joints have lasted many years with constant rebuilding and posing. From what I remember, since 2008, only one of my Bionicle pieces has cracked. But I got Mark Surge from the first wave of Hero Factory, and in two weeks of the same treatment as my Bionicles get, lo and behold, an arm and a leg are cracked. Also, Furno's mask looks....wierd with that microphone thing. Surge's mask is okay, but I prefer 2.0 greatly. To prove the strength issue further, I bought Surge 2.0 when I first saw him in the store (somewhere around January 15th), and his joints haven't cracked yet. But now, with "Breakout", they are switching back, more or less, to the old joint system.

[Tanma]

This is a fair point, but it should be considered that some of Hero Factory's changes in the 2.0 sets are largely continuing the same trends BIONICLE started as it became less of a Technic theme and more of an independent building system. One criticism HF 1.0 got a lot was that it was "just BIONICLE with a different name", and while there were some obvious aesthetic differences between the two themes, the core building experience didn't change too significantly. From there it would have been just a hop, a skip, and a jump for BIONICLE to follow the same path towards a ball joint-based build.

It might be a mercy for me that BIONICLE didn't continue in this way, because it's a lot easier to ignore whining about Hero Factory replacing BIONICLE than to ignore loud, outspoken complaints about BIONICLE, heaven forbid, changing in any way. The Inika obviously didn't do as much for action figure themes as HF 2.0, but they and every wave of sets that followed would be criticized for being "too different" from classic BIONICLE or "not different enough" from the sets that came immediately before them.

The complaints I heard the most was about the Inika build and "ape-arms." Everyone seemed to hate them, or at least from what I gathered. All in all, you don't know what you got till it's gone...

When will we get the next chapter of Yesterday's Quest and the Powers that Be anyway?

[Bfahome]

But now, with "Breakout", they are switching back, more or less, to the old joint system.

No they aren't. Where'd you get that impression? :|

[Darth Nihilus]

No they aren't. Where'd you get that impression? :|

Because they are using the old masks, thus the old heads, the old feet on Breez, and this all leads to the ineviteable. One or more of those pieces that uses the old joint system is going to crack or break

[Bfahome]

Because they are using the old masks, thus the old heads, the old feet on Breez, and this all leads to the ineviteable. One or more of those pieces that uses the old joint system is going to crack or break

1.0 feet don't have a built-in socket, so she'll have the new-style single socket piece, and I'd be surprised if the head wasn't remolded.

And that doesn't mean they're "switching back", it just means that some of the pieces may be old-style. A vast majority of them will still be new.

[Tanma]

1.0 feet don't have a built-in socket, so she'll have the new-style single socket piece, and I'd be surprised if the head wasn't remolded.

And that doesn't mean they're "switching back", it just means that some of the pieces may be old-style. A vast majority of them will still be new.

Agreed. Odds are Lego would have learned their message last time. Hopefully.

[Aanchir]

The complaints I heard the most was about the Inika build and "ape-arms." Everyone seemed to hate them, or at least from what I gathered. All in all, you don't know what you got till it's gone...

When will we get the next chapter of Yesterday's Quest and the Powers that Be anyway?

The complaints that I heard most often about the Inika were about the rubber masks, personally. Later sets with Inika builds got endlessly critiqued for the ape arms, of course, but many of them deserved it even more than the Inika did (Kiina with her petite torso and huge arms and legs is a good example), and I'm glad we've gotten to a better place with Hero Factory designs. Other critiques of Inika builds that bothered me were complaints about wide shoulders (same as the Toa Metru, for the most part) and thin chests (better than the Toa Metru in this case). But again, I'm glad we're in a better place with Hero Factory. As an artist it means I don't have to skew proportions as much to make human poses look realistic.

I haven't followed BIONICLE serials in months. I keep telling myself I need to catch up, but I never work up the motivation and the criticisms of the serials (ironically, the criticisms I used to happily debate) keep me from working up the courage to see what's happened since I've been away.

Meanwhile, as for going back to the "old joints", don't criticize that-- criticize that we never left them behind. After all, Waspix and Fangz both used Shadow Matoran feet, and before that the Fire Villains were using Glatorian heads. And in non-Hero Factory sets, 89650 has not been redesigned for the old joints, and as of this year has still used them in three of the four Ninjago dragons. I'm hoping that the Glatorian heads get a redesign, if not during the first wave next year then soon after.

[The Crazy One]

I have to say, looking at the Heros, Furno, Breeze an Rocka really are great designs. I can't deny that Breeze looks like a must buy, and yet again her mask almost single handedly makes her look feminine, but the high heel effect given buy the 1.0 feet also helps. I believe that's why they were used to be honest.

[Tanma]

I usually check Bioniclesector01 when curious for a Bionicle serial update, as they not only feature the serial chapters word for word(which is useful if you have trouble listening to the spoken serials), but it also has helpful links in the text. So if you have forgotten who Mavrah is(which isn't too hard), the Powers that Be has the link to his page, allowing you to read up on this very...special Onu-Matoran.

[The Mugbearer]

Here's a few of my thoughts about new sets:

1) Heroes are awesome. I hope they will look better from back than their precursors.

2) Black Phantom is look too Firelord-ish. And I can't say "I like him" about any of villains. Though, it's good that Lego Group has at last made some bad guys that have no legs at all (Thornraxx, Jawblade).

3) Shoulder pads of Natalie Breez/Split-face are ideal for making Space Marine Action Figure. :3

4) Toxic Reapa looks like the fusion of Corroder and Meltdown, it's confusing and getting me upset.

5) Evo's helmet is just yay! Perfect alloy of 1.0 style and 2.0 head-gear.