Hero Factory 2012

[vexorian]

This is a fair point, but it should be considered that some of Hero Factory's changes in the 2.0 sets are largely continuing the same trends BIONICLE started as it became less of a Technic theme and more of an independent building system.

HF started a different new trend. Not only to become an independent building system but to be more system-compatible than technic compatible.

One criticism HF 1.0 got a lot was that it was "just BIONICLE with a different name", and while there were some obvious aesthetic differences between the two themes, the core building experience didn't change too significantly. From there it would have been just a hop, a skip, and a jump for BIONICLE to follow the same path towards a ball joint-based build.

I consider HF 1.0 to be Bionicle. Both in positive and negative ways. Rotor was the best Bionicle titan as it was really the last polish on all the evolution in titans. But the 1.0 Heroes and villains inherited way a lot of Bionicle's weaknesses, including the low quality joints from 2007+.

I really hope "4.0" is not reusing old pieces. I have no reason to believe they are. It would be great to get the old masks adapted to the new heads. The 1.0 feet were never much of an issue, and it is very likely they will use the new socket on them, they fit well.

[Bfahome]

I really hope "4.0" is not reusing old pieces. I have no reason to believe they are. It would be great to get the old masks adapted to the new heads.

As nice as new helmets or masks are, I prefer a Glatorian or similarly-styled head over the 2.0 head (except for the socket aspect), since it doesn't look unfinished when bare.

[Tanma]

HF started a different new trend. Not only to become an independent building system but to be more system-compatible than technic compatible.

I am a little confused by this statement. Unless I am horribly mistaken about lingo, system is the tradition Lego bricks. As far as I can see the pieces actually connect worse than Bionicle to system.

[Mesonak]

The pieces' overall aesthetic, being smoother and more streamlined than BIONICLE's detailed pieces, works much better when used in combination with the traditional lego bricks. The attachment points also work much better; unlike BIONICLE, which had attachments firmly rooted in technic (rods and axles), HF has the double-pin connection system, the scale of which is mainly used by sets from System, as well as minifigures.

[Dorek]

As nice as new helmets or masks are, I prefer a Glatorian or similarly-styled head over the 2.0 head (except for the socket aspect), since it doesn't look unfinished when bare.

Much as I love the Iron Man heads too, I'm hoping these old masks/helmets are remodeled in the new style; provides much more possibilities in terms of already existing pieces. Since Black Phantom appears to have an Iron Man head, though, it's not out of the question for the helmets to be the same molds. We'll see.

As for BIONICLE, there's plenty of time to get caught up =P. It's mostly good stuff when you read it as a whole, but when you consider the wait time between each chapter, it becomes horribly depressing.

[Bfahome]

Much as I love the Iron Man heads too, I'm hoping these old masks/helmets are remodeled in the new style; provides much more possibilities in terms of already existing pieces. Since Black Phantom appears to have an Iron Man head, though, it's not out of the question for the helmets to be the same molds. We'll see.

I'd give a new head mold a higher probability of happening than remodeled helmets.

And I wouldn't use BP as a baseline for what to expect. The guy's more prototyped than the troll session Black King.

[The Dor]

The guy's more prototyped than the troll session Black King.

ha ha homestuck jokes

My main problem with the possible return to the Glatorian heads is the fact that it will render the last two wave's helmets incompatible. I was okay with the new heads because I figured they'd be around for a while (also the jawline was so good, oh man). The inconsistency is starting to irk me. Maybe I'm just too picky, though.

[Aethersprite]

...

Holy.

It looks like a cuteish evil beetle of doom <3

Do want.

I do hope TLG recolours the Thornax launcher white, then it'd be perfect!

[Tanma]

The pieces' overall aesthetic, being smoother and more streamlined than BIONICLE's detailed pieces, works much better when used in combination with the traditional lego bricks. The attachment points also work much better; unlike BIONICLE, which had attachments firmly rooted in technic (rods and axles), HF has the double-pin connection system, the scale of which is mainly used by sets from System, as well as minifigures.

I can see the streamline, but as far as I have observed only the armor pierces and the head have spaces for double pins. Their limbs son't even have the rod holes of yesteryear, making them impossible to attach to bricks. And their hands have the same issues of Glatorian hands.

[vexorian]

If you are going to attach a non-HF piece to a HF piece, the most likely outcome is that you will attach something from system. Specially in case of armor pieces. Only exceptions would be those titan pieces which seem designed to allow technic conenctions, but they are rare in comparison to the pieces that come with the heroes.

I am a little confused by this statement. Unless I am horribly mistaken about lingo, system is the tradition Lego bricks. As far as I can see the pieces actually connect worse than Bionicle to system.

Visual compatibility and rods instead of crosses.

The hands themselves are a good example. A HF hand piece will look better on a system moc than a glatorian hand. Try white HF hands on Buzz lightyear.

When I think of the glatorians I can only think of pieces that are so very detailed that only work with each other and are very hard to fit in system.

On the other hand , the HF heroes seem to bring more and more system pieces with time. It started with the light sabers and some lances. Then exo force arms started appearing...

Edited September 27, 2011 by vexorian

[Tanma]

If you are going to attach a non-HF piece to a HF piece, the most likely outcome is that you will attach something from system. Specially in case of armor pieces. Only exceptions would be those titan pieces which seem designed to allow technic conenctions, but they are rare in comparison to the pieces that come with the heroes.

Visual compatibility and rods instead of crosses.

The hands themselves are a good example. A HF hand piece will look better on a system moc than a glatorian hand. Try white HF hands on Buzz lightyear.

When I think of the glatorians I can only think of pieces that are so very detailed that only work with each other and are very hard to fit in system.

On the other hand , the HF heroes seem to bring more and more system pieces with time. It started with the light sabers and some lances. Then exo force arms started appearing...

But what about their joints and skeletons, those connect worse than Bionicle limbs and bodies. The legs and arms don't even have rod holes, they can only be attached to sphere pieces. I know they have those sphere bricks like in that Power Miners mech, but the fusion of Bionicle joint and brick looks really unnatural to me, thus bring back bad asthetics.

Remember, Bionicle has been acceptable of system pieces before, Keetongu's eye, the eyes and squid holders of the Barraki, and Hakann's gun all used pins in their designs, as can be seen on Carapar's armor. Bionicle also was pin friendly, but their pieces that connected to pins were used far less than Hero Factory. In truth the factory doesn't have a ton of pin connecting pieces, they just reuse them in many sets.

[Vinyl Scratch]

I do hope TLG recolours the Thornax launcher white, then it'd be perfect!

White Thornrax Launcher

But if it's truly a bug on Black Phantom's hand, then I hope that it shows up in the upcoming TV series.

Something like an Insecticon or like Soundwave's Minions.

[Cap'tanZarWolf]

Finally got around to look at the new images for 2012, a little late I know, but still ahead of most. Not sure I like the Prison Break story idea, but it has potential, so I'll withhold too much judgement until the story starts.

As for the sets, I must say they are looking pretty good. I'm glad with how far Hero Factory has come from its Bionicle origins, and this new system seems to be working well. I am most definitely going to be picking up the original three rookies, as in my opinion they look the best out of the line up. Especially Furno, which isn't something I ever expected to say since he's been one of my least favorite heroes thus far. There's a lot more detail in these new sets, and they look very dynamic and much more action figure-y; plus more pieces is never a bad thing. Interesting to see a return to the launchers in the smaller sets though, I'm kind of getting sick of the Thornrax launcher. The new hand-cuffs piece(s) looks very interesting though, I wonder how well it will work on the older villains (hopefully just as good as on the new ones, I see no reason for it not to). The new packaging style is a definite plus in my book, the canisters were unnecessary for the smaller sets.

Villain wise, they look good and are pretty detailed, but I don't think I'll be getting any of them (maybe Thornraxx). I'll definitely wait for reviews on them, but they just don't appeal to me like the previous villains do. They seem to be missing something, I just can't put my finger on it. And Black Phantom is a disappoint. Even my younger brother (7), who wants all the new sets since I showed him the pictures, pointed out the horrible leg design and his general thin-ness with doubt. It bothers me too, Witch Doctor was by far one of my favorite sets in awhile, and a step far forward in titan design, I don't see why Lego is taking steps back even further than Fire Lord. Those legs are super thin and need way more armor, even Fire Lord looked better with his questionable legs. I just don't see how its so hard to design a decent large villain, hopefully this is something the design team can figure out and fix quickly in future waves. :/

All in all, I'm very interested in where this wave could potentially go, though I'm on the fence at the moment. Furno, Breez and Surge are guaranteed buys in my book though, and I love the return to the 1.0 helmets. Here's to hoping the summer sets end up amazing.

[Dorek]

I'd give a new head mold a higher probability of happening than remodeled helmets.

And I wouldn't use BP as a baseline for what to expect. The guy's more prototyped than the troll session Black King.

I dunno, similar prototype images (I'm thinking 2.0; didn't see much 3.0 prototype stuff, if any) haven't changed terribly drastically, so I can't imagine BP ending up looking that different. The armor will be smoother, obviously (when do final products ever have that sandpaper quality you see in prototype pics? Never that's when.) and there might be a few armor and/or tweaks, but overall, I don't think it'll end up being terribly different.

[Tanma]

I dunno, similar prototype images (I'm thinking 2.0; didn't see much 3.0 prototype stuff, if any) haven't changed terribly drastically, so I can't imagine BP ending up looking that different. The armor will be smoother, obviously (when do final products ever have that sandpaper quality you see in prototype pics? Never that's when.) and there might be a few armor and/or tweaks, but overall, I don't think it'll end up being terribly different.

Oh good, I wasn't sure if they were trying to make Plantom look like he was battle damaged with those rough parts. I remember back in my day I would pound extra Kanohi to give them a damaged battle worn look, so I wasn't sure if that was their goal here.

[Vinyl Scratch]

I remember back in my day

Grampa Tanma.

Well, I wouldn't mind seeing some of those rough sandpaper pieces for once. Just to see something else.

[Aethersprite]

Well, I wouldn't mind seeing some of those rough sandpaper pieces for once. Just to see something else.

They look cool, but I doubt it. Those shoulderpads are probably same as the Hero's, and I'm guessing the chest piece is from the Superheroes line.

I don't get what's the point of the 2 blades on his back with the tubes sticking out, though. To add bulk?

[Tanma]

They look cool, but I doubt it. Those shoulderpads are probably same as the Hero's, and I'm guessing the chest piece is from the Superheroes line.

I don't get what's the point of the 2 blades on his back with the tubes sticking out, though. To add bulk?

I would assume that they were stingers, based on their joints, green(venom) tubes, and possibility, but they are too stubby. Maybe he has them so that ifhe is dueling with a foe and they are fighting in close combat, he can stab them while they fight his main limbs? On another note, while does he have that ridiculous helmet? Those horns have to make it hard to move his head around.

[Aanchir]

Finally got around to look at the new images for 2012, a little late I know, but still ahead of most. Not sure I like the Prison Break story idea, but it has potential, so I'll withhold too much judgement until the story starts.

As for the sets, I must say they are looking pretty good. I'm glad with how far Hero Factory has come from its Bionicle origins, and this new system seems to be working well. I am most definitely going to be picking up the original three rookies, as in my opinion they look the best out of the line up. Especially Furno, which isn't something I ever expected to say since he's been one of my least favorite heroes thus far. There's a lot more detail in these new sets, and they look very dynamic and much more action figure-y; plus more pieces is never a bad thing. Interesting to see a return to the launchers in the smaller sets though, I'm kind of getting sick of the Thornrax launcher. The new hand-cuffs piece(s) looks very interesting though, I wonder how well it will work on the older villains (hopefully just as good as on the new ones, I see no reason for it not to). The new packaging style is a definite plus in my book, the canisters were unnecessary for the smaller sets.

To be fair, 2.0 and 3.0 canister sets were extremely similar in size (both in figure size and number of parts) to some of the Toa Mata. Even more so in piece count to the Vahki. And some of these sets, from the looks of things, will be slightly bigger in size and piece count than the 2.0 and 3.0 heroes were, so it's not really reasonable to call them "smaller sets" any more. Note that there are two sizes of hero and villain sets, so there are now smaller heroes and villains as well as larger heroes and villains (not including Black Phantom, who looks to be the largest set in the wave and the only one in a box).

Villain wise, they look good and are pretty detailed, but I don't think I'll be getting any of them (maybe Thornraxx). I'll definitely wait for reviews on them, but they just don't appeal to me like the previous villains do. They seem to be missing something, I just can't put my finger on it. And Black Phantom is a disappoint. Even my younger brother (7), who wants all the new sets since I showed him the pictures, pointed out the horrible leg design and his general thin-ness with doubt. It bothers me too, Witch Doctor was by far one of my favorite sets in awhile, and a step far forward in titan design, I don't see why Lego is taking steps back even further than Fire Lord. Those legs are super thin and need way more armor, even Fire Lord looked better with his questionable legs. I just don't see how its so hard to design a decent large villain, hopefully this is something the design team can figure out and fix quickly in future waves. :/

I don't see how Black Phantom is a step backward from Fire Lord, even if he's not very imaginative. His legs are almost exactly the same as in Fire Lord, and any additional spindliness may be a consequence of the image's awful posing and cropping (many of the holes on the individual components are bigger than they would be on the actual pieces).

All in all, I'm very interested in where this wave could potentially go, though I'm on the fence at the moment. Furno, Breez and Surge are guaranteed buys in my book though, and I love the return to the 1.0 helmets. Here's to hoping the summer sets end up amazing.

I'm also wondering what the summer wave might have in store... perhaps the Alpha Team heroes will return? It would have been wishful thinking in BIONICLE to make that sort of cognitive leap, but so far in Hero Factory there seems to be a conscious effort not to eliminate any characters entirely even if they have to be absent for a line of canister sets. Might still be a bit of a cognitive leap though considering Hero Factory hasn't been around quite long enough to tell what is an intentional, lasting trend and what are just casual design decisions.

[Dorek]

I dunno, at this point I've reached the "why buy William Furno AGAIN?" point; as long as he looks damn fine, I'll keep buying him (I skipped 3.0 because it'd be cheaper just to order the spare parts and modify the 2.0 set), but every line (excluding the first one) so far there I have held off buying the Heroes until we see next wave's models, just so I know what to get and what will re-appear in an improved form. Obviously "4.0" uses an improved style, so I'll be getting quite a few of those (and I tend to get most of the villains, obviously) but I imagine a parent has similar thoughts:

"Mommy, I want the William Furno set!"

"Sure Timmy, let mWaitaminute... this sounds familiar..."

Familiarity can only go so far.

I like that we see the same characters all the time (helps keep the show grounded) but at six month intervals, that doesn't leave much time for set expression, so it's a little tiring to see the same character appear over and over. Adding in new characters doesn't really help, because all that does is give you mix and matchability with your set waves. Personally, I'd like to see a new set of Heroes, a new team, new dynamics, which can leave the door open for the current team to come back; if we have this one rotating team of nine dudes for another year or two, that's gonna get kinda boring.

As I've said since the beginning: I'll buy Hero Factory if I like the sets, but repeating the same characters over and over is going to get pretty old pretty quick.

[Zeon]

As I've said since the beginning: I'll buy Hero Factory if I like the sets, but repeating the same characters over and over is going to get pretty old pretty quick.

And that is your AFOL opinion. My son is all excited to see his long time known heroes getting new and new upgrades (he is making his own tweaks/mocs of course). Maybe this is the way they can get attached emotionally to the heroes. If they were shifting them twice a year, a 4 (or whatever the real age range is supposed to be) year old could get confused with names, powers etc.

(Following that line, I wouldn't be too surprised if they dug up old time heroes like Trasher (?))

[Tanma]

And that is your AFOL opinion. My son is all excited to see his long time known heroes getting new and new upgrades (he is making his own tweaks/mocs of course). Maybe this is the way they can get attached emotionally to the heroes. If they were shifting them twice a year, a 4 (or whatever the real age range is supposed to be) year old could get confused with names, powers etc.

(Following that line, I wouldn't be too surprised if they dug up old time heroes like Trasher (?))

I take the balanced road. I do enjoy getting multiple sets of characters, seeing their personal evolution. I freaked out when I learned wise Vakama used to be a doubting Toa, and it helped give more depth to his character. Now we see that he earned that wisdom, and we learn a great deal more about the Matoran. And as a Jaller-holic from 2001, imagine my joy at his return in 2003 and much farther along in 2006 and 2007. It allows characters to stay longer in the spotlight, which in turn let's us learn more about the character.

But at the same time, I think getting the same character twice a year for two years is a bad idea. It gets repetitive, and kind of dull. Worse, it stops new blood from entering the limelight. Hero factory thus far has avoided that by adding Evo, Nex, and Rocka; but keep in mind that in Winter we would have had every hero at least twice. And in truth the stats for the heroes change each time-Surge didn't have electric weapons as a 2.0, and Breez didn't have wind powers. Personally I will never understand why Breez wasn't a 3.0, since she could speak to creatures and it took place on a jungle planet.

On a similar note, is anyone else annoyed by the lack of civilian sets? All we get are criminals and heroes, what about the citizens? How can a kid have the hero rescue a hostage, if there are no hostages? I know kids can make their own civilians, but all the civilians in the show have very different bodies than heroes- how could they make a citizen that is show accurate?

[Lyichir]

I take the balanced road. I do enjoy getting multiple sets of characters, seeing their personal evolution. I freaked out when I learned wise Vakama used to be a doubting Toa, and it helped give more depth to his character. Now we see that he earned that wisdom, and we learn a great deal more about the Matoran. And as a Jaller-holic from 2001, imagine my joy at his return in 2003 and much farther along in 2006 and 2007. It allows characters to stay longer in the spotlight, which in turn let's us learn more about the character.

But at the same time, I think getting the same character twice a year for two years is a bad idea. It gets repetitive, and kind of dull. Worse, it stops new blood from entering the limelight. Hero factory thus far has avoided that by adding Evo, Nex, and Rocka; but keep in mind that in Winter we would have had every hero at least twice. And in truth the stats for the heroes change each time-Surge didn't have electric weapons as a 2.0, and Breez didn't have wind powers. Personally I will never understand why Breez wasn't a 3.0, since she could speak to creatures and it took place on a jungle planet.

On a similar note, is anyone else annoyed by the lack of civilian sets? All we get are criminals and heroes, what about the citizens? How can a kid have the hero rescue a hostage, if there are no hostages? I know kids can make their own civilians, but all the civilians in the show have very different bodies than heroes- how could they make a citizen that is show accurate?

The lack of civilians/minor characters is something that plagues a lot of action figure lines. Not just Lego -- I remember when my little brother was into Rescue Heroes, he was usually at a loss for who they had to rescue. Some action figure lines revel in making figures of minor characters, of course, such as Star Wars; but these figures are usually intended for collectors rather than Hero Factory's target audience of boys ages 9 to 16. As buildable action figures, it's not impossible to custom make your own civilian characters (although they won't match the ones in the show, of course). And I expect that's going to continue to be the only solution to populating your own personal Makuhero City.

[Aanchir]

I dunno, at this point I've reached the "why buy William Furno AGAIN?" point; as long as he looks damn fine, I'll keep buying him (I skipped 3.0 because it'd be cheaper just to order the spare parts and modify the 2.0 set), but every line (excluding the first one) so far there I have held off buying the Heroes until we see next wave's models, just so I know what to get and what will re-appear in an improved form. Obviously "4.0" uses an improved style, so I'll be getting quite a few of those (and I tend to get most of the villains, obviously) but I imagine a parent has similar thoughts:

"Mommy, I want the William Furno set!"

"Sure Timmy, let mWaitaminute... this sounds familiar..."

Familiarity can only go so far.

I like that we see the same characters all the time (helps keep the show grounded) but at six month intervals, that doesn't leave much time for set expression, so it's a little tiring to see the same character appear over and over. Adding in new characters doesn't really help, because all that does is give you mix and matchability with your set waves. Personally, I'd like to see a new set of Heroes, a new team, new dynamics, which can leave the door open for the current team to come back; if we have this one rotating team of nine dudes for another year or two, that's gonna get kinda boring.

As I've said since the beginning: I'll buy Hero Factory if I like the sets, but repeating the same characters over and over is going to get pretty old pretty quick.

Well, keep in mind that if a brand-new team is added, the theme could end up with BIONICLE-itis, where you have to be familiar with characters who haven't been on store shelves for a year or more in order to follow the story. And I think that's part of what Hero Factory is aiming to avoid by keeping the cast of characters in one largely close-knit group.

While Hero Factory doesn't have many ongoing mysteries or conflicts lasting more than one wave, what it does have is ongoing character development. Perhaps Furno could afford to be left out of the sets for a wave, like so many Heroes have been. But for a full year, or more? Then you run the risk of the character being forgotten and having to be "re-introduced" in story when he's re-introduced in sets.

I'm not saying it couldn't be done, or that TLG won't do that. In fact, it seems to me like they might be heading in that direction, since this latest batch of Heroes have left all qualifiers behind save for their surnames. William Furno isn't "Furno 4.0" this time; he's just "Furno". So unless new qualifiers get added next wave (Furno Nuva lol) then there's not likely to be another Furno set.

I wouldn't be surprised if the summer 2012 wave included sets like "STORMER", "BULK", "NEX", and "STRINGER", all similarly without qualifiers. Maybe even some new characters to fill out the group. If that were to happen, then we could truly have two full, alternating teams. However, I don't expect a BIONICLE-like scenario where characters will be reintroduced as sets after six years of entirely different characters.

[The Crazy One]

I would prefer if the team were dominated by new characters with only one or two familiars. I am fine with it either way but my preference would be to have far more character variety than we are being given.