Hero Factory 2012

[Toa Mark Surge]

Y'know, if Black Phantom truly is a past villain coming back, VN is the best choice. We just had Doc, and Fire Lord (according to the TV show) is in rehab. So, bets should be on Von Nebula being Phantom (if Phantom is a past villain, that it). But if he were Nebula, I would have liked some similarities between the two.

Here's an idea, what if the Breakout storyline goes on for a few waves? That way, we can have a mix of old and new villains. As for Heroes, seperate teams can be made with some of the older characters and include a few new ones.

Kalhiki

The Breakout theme is great, and more major villains would be awesome. They also need a underwater theme, I loved the Toa Mahri.

[BrotherDog]

Heh, well color me surprised. I just found out about these this morning. Didn't think we would have pics already.

Well, opinions, opinions, opinions...

Breez: First of all, THAT SWORD! I love those new katana/blade elements. And I've thought of launchers like that before, and am very glad to see that Lego finally thought of it also. Also love that shield. At the same time, I feel her head looks rather small compared to her body.

Furno: Turbines! :D I'm not to sure about that shield arm, though. And yeah... this is what, our fifth Furno?

Rocka: That helmet... It feels familiar. I also love his crossbow arm. Trans green? Yes please.

Surge: Stupid glare in the photo... But I like that Electrical Shield... Bolt Launcher... Thing... y...

Evo: Lack of an actual weapon is disappointing, but I have plenty of stuff lying about. The launcher arm is great.

Overall: I like where they are going with the Heroes. The handcuffs are nifty and the launchers are excellent.

Black Phantom: ... Honestly? Why? This is rather... Horribly built. The spider gun is cute, and the weapon is interesting... But otherwise, this guy is just parts to me.

Thornraxx: The name is unwieldily. The set itself is excellent. Teal, light-blue, either way it is color we haven't had yet in the new building style. And Gorast's Wings, yay! One question: How should you handcuff this if it has a stinger as well as arms?

Splitface: I must admit, that does look an awful lot like Thunder's head. But I like how they did this. Only thing I don't like is how difficult his head will be for using in MOCs.

Toxic Reapa: I LOVE THAT HEAD! This has to be my favorite Villain. His style, the transparent cladding.

Jawblade: Shark! Shark! Shark! Hah, this guy is great. I love his head. And I guess he has arms so he can be handcuffed.

Overall: Other than Black Phantom, these are great. No other way to say it.

Now, as for the new bags they come it, it remains to be seen. But I think it will work.

Welcome Evex, seen you around on the Darkspore forums.

Back on subject. I only really care about all the lovely new parts, especial BlackPhantom. ;;D

I just wish they'd make Toxic's feet in Lime or any variant of Green. Tired of Green always getting shorted on the claw feet.

[Toa Mark Surge]

Welcome Evex, seen you around on the Darkspore forums.

Back on subject. I only really care about all the lovely new parts, especial BlackPhantom. ;;D

I just wish they'd make Toxic's feet in Lime or any variant of Green. Tired of Green always getting shorted on the claw feet.

I like it that they have finally made smaller Villains. Splitface is awesome, so is Toxic Repa. I think Surge is the best 4.0 Hero, Rocka coming second. But I'm getting tired of Furno now. Please let this be the past of him. Do an Bionicle and wait six years before releasing the next version of him or something.

Do you guys think the sets will come with the chains, that would be awesome!

[Dorek]

Pretty sure that kind of thing is what slowly killed BIONICLE =P. I don't forsee these Heroes going away any time soon, but we'll see.

I'm really liking Rocka and Furno the most; even with an added joint, the crossbow idea is too cool not to love, and I'm looking forward to finding out what those chains around him are (as well as that weird hexagonal shield piece); they remind me of a uniform tentacle piece. And Furno's turbines are awesome. The cuff piece, though, is something that has me really excited. It uses the BIONICLE style chain links, so you can add more as necessary, which is super cool.

[Toa Mark Surge]

Pretty sure that kind of thing is what slowly killed BIONICLE =P. I don't forsee these Heroes going away any time soon, but we'll see.

I'm really liking Rocka and Furno the most; even with an added joint, the crossbow idea is too cool not to love, and I'm looking forward to finding out what those chains around him are (as well as that weird hexagonal shield piece); they remind me of a uniform tentacle piece. And Furno's turbines are awesome. The cuff piece, though, is something that has me really excited. It uses the BIONICLE style chain links, so you can add more as necessary, which is super cool.

Agreed. I just want to see Furno grow up a bit, become a but more like Stormer in a way. The titan Rocka XL is awesome, massive Heroes are awesome!

[Bfahome]

I'm really liking Rocka and Furno the most; even with an added joint, the crossbow idea is too cool not to love, and I'm looking forward to finding out what those chains around him are (as well as that weird hexagonal shield piece); they remind me of a uniform tentacle piece.

An ammo belt, probably. There are other spears on it, and it's the same piece used on Iron Man's gun.

So yeah, automatic belt-fed crossbow.

[Toa Mark Surge]

Is that a gun Surge is holding, and if so is there anything equipped to it, I can't really make it out.

[Dorek]

An ammo belt, probably. There are other spears on it, and it's the same piece used on Iron Man's gun.

So yeah, automatic belt-fed crossbow.

Thought I had seen it somewhere else, that's right. I did see the spears, but it seemed counter-intuitive because it appears to be feeding into a sphere launcher =P. But he also has a spear piece on top of that, so I guess it makes sense somehow. Fun concept.

Is that a gun Surge is holding, and if so is there anything equipped to it, I can't really make it out.

He has a launcher, as do all the Heroes (kinda funny how the first two waves have the villains with standardized launchers, then the third wave has launchers on only the large sets, and now the Heroes all have them), and his other weapon is an awesome recolored version of his old one, with a tube attached to it.

[Toa Mark Surge]

Thought I had seen it somewhere else, that's right. I did see the spears, but it seemed counter-intuitive because it appears to be feeding into a sphere launcher =P. But he also has a spear piece on top of that, so I guess it makes sense somehow. Fun concept.

He has a launcher, as do all the Heroes (kinda funny how the first two waves have the villains with standardized launchers, then the third wave has launchers on only the large sets, and now the Heroes all have them), and his other weapon is an awesome recolored version of his old one, with a tube attached to it.

Oh, cool. I'm guessing he doesn't have another weapon on him as he is a smaller set. So, let me get this straight. Evo and Surge are smaller sets then Breez, Rocka and Furno? Surge is the best, why not make him bigger? :)

[Dorek]

Surge actually gets a secondary weapon, as opposed to Evo =P. Heck, Furno and Rocka don't really get secondary weapons either, so Surge comes off looking pretty fly. It's all just for the sake of variety, which I love.

[Toa Mark Surge]

Surge actually gets a secondary weapon, as opposed to Evo =P. Heck, Furno and Rocka don't really get secondary weapons either, so Surge comes off looking pretty fly. It's all just for the sake of variety, which I love.

Good point, the Blue Electric Weapon looks way better then the Yellow ones. I hope that he has two, not one, but I guess it's too late for that now :(

[Dorek]

Well, I'm hearing talk that everything here is extremely preliminary, and that the final results will look radically different, but sounds like a typical misinformation campaign. And honestly, how on earth could anything different than these things be BETTER? I know we always fall in love with prelim images, but still; I'm liking everything I see here, and I can't imagine it being terribly different in the end.

[Toa Mark Surge]

Well, I'm hearing talk that everything here is extremely preliminary, and that the final results will look radically different, but sounds like a typical misinformation campaign. And honestly, how on earth could anything different than these things be BETTER? I know we always fall in love with prelim images, but still; I'm liking everything I see here, and I can't imagine it being terribly different in the end.

Well let's hope they don't stuff it up. How can they after all :P

[Aethersprite]

Is that a gun Surge is holding, and if so is there anything equipped to it, I can't really make it out.

Speaking of that, can anyone tell if Surge has a second hand holding his gun?

[Tanma]

Speaking of that, can anyone tell if Surge has a second hand holding his gun?

I can't tell, I think I see a hand, but that mean that Surge holds his gun upside down.

[Aanchir]

I can't tell, I think I see a hand, but that mean that Surge holds his gun upside down.

Why? Breez holds her gun with a regular hand just fine. The only one of the heroes that seems to need a Y-joint instead of a hand piece is Rocka, due to the way his crossbow assembles-- and even that requires us to assume a few things about the internal structure.

By the way, while I don't mind Surge's lime-intensive color scheme in and of itself, it kinda bothers me that blue pieces are still so sparse in this upcoming wave. But I guess if you really need bright blue parts there's always the "ultrabuild" Batman, who has some quite useful ones such as blue torso shells. Captain America and Hulk also (so far) seem like they'll use bright blue, but neither has enough of it to make a really worthwhile parts pack for that color.

[Tanma]

Why? Breez holds her gun with a regular hand just fine. The only one of the heroes that seems to need a Y-joint instead of a hand piece is Rocka, due to the way his crossbow assembles-- and even that requires us to assume a few things about the internal structure.

By the way, while I don't mind Surge's lime-intensive color scheme in and of itself, it kinda bothers me that blue pieces are still so sparse in this upcoming wave. But I guess if you really need bright blue parts there's always the "ultrabuild" Batman, who has some quite useful ones such as blue torso shells. Captain America and Hulk also (so far) seem like they'll use bright blue, but neither has enough of it to make a really worthwhile parts pack for that color.

I know, but if what I saw was Surge's hand, it was on top of the gun. Its not that he has to hold it upside down, but judging by the picture that is how he holds it.

[Bfahome]

I know, but if what I saw was Surge's hand, it was on top of the gun.

Then I don't think what you saw was Surge's hand.

[CabooseBM]

Well, I'm hearing talk that everything here is extremely preliminary, and that the final results will look radically different, but sounds like a typical misinformation campaign. And honestly, how on earth could anything different than these things be BETTER? I know we always fall in love with prelim images, but still; I'm liking everything I see here, and I can't imagine it being terribly different in the end.

I think those rumors only started in hopes that the "final" version of Black Phantom will be less terrible. =P

[Geki Brick]

They're starting to do 9" heroes again. Why would Hero Factory end here? Bionicle didn't have their 9" figures until Inika and that was 4 rotations into the line itself. Hopefully Hero Factory is just reaching it's climax at the moment, but Lego has learned their lesson about extending lines into the double-digits. Bionicle's story was more intricate and thus harder for beginners to get into. Maybe that's the problem and not "time" itself. Anywho, I'm pretty excited about 4.0 although there doesn't seem to be much of a motif. It's similar to 1.0 with a Piraka feel.

[Tanma]

They're starting to do 9" heroes again. Why would Hero Factory end here? Bionicle didn't have their 9" figures until Inika and that was 4 rotations into the line itself. Hopefully Hero Factory is just reaching it's climax at the moment, but Lego has learned their lesson about extending lines into the double-digits. Bionicle's story was more intricate and thus harder for beginners to get into. Maybe that's the problem and not "time" itself. Anywho, I'm pretty excited about 4.0 although there doesn't seem to be much of a motif. It's similar to 1.0 with a Piraka feel.

The Inika sets were in 2006, but the first Bionicle sets were in 2001. And in some areas Bionicle started in 2000. Not to mention that unlike Hero Factory, one sage was a year long, not six months. In short the Inika were at least five years into Bionicle, not four hero factory rotations, though these Toa had all appeared previously to this as Matoran.

[Aanchir]

Where's the thing about "9-inch heroes" coming from? I haven't seen anything about how tall the new Hero sets are. They look taller in pictures, but that's partly because they seem to have smaller Hero Cores than previous waves. Surge in particular seems to be no taller than a 3.0 Hero set, while Rocka seems at most an inch taller-- around 8 inches tall, closer to a Toa Metru in size than a Toa Inika.

I'm basing my measurements on what I can see in the catalog images. Rocka seems to have regular 3M feet, 7M lower leg beams, 6M upper leg beams, and a regular 9M torso beam. His total height would thus be around 25 studs-- about 20 centimeters or just under 8 inches. Surge, in contrast, seems to have 5M upper leg beams and 5M lower leg beams, for an overall height of around 22 studs (17.6 cm or just under 7 inches).

The only thing that I find Inika-ish about the height of these new heroes is how long their legs are compared to their torsos, which is IMO a much bigger problem than height alone would be. It's still somewhat reasonable, and not much different than Toa Metru proportions, but at the same time I hope it's not a slippery slope to Kiina-style proportions. Although at least now there exist beams in suitable sizes to prevent the "gorilla arms" that so many post-2006 BIONICLE sets were criticized for-- rather than having to use leg joints for the arms, the arms can now be proportioned according to the torsos, at least to an extent.

I think those rumors only started in hopes that the "final" version of Black Phantom will be less terrible. =P

I dunno; someone on Flickr had been in contact with someone who works in a LEGO store who was able to confirm that Black Phantom would change. And I don't think this was just hopeful ignorance since even the changes they were told to expect (differently-built feet and armor shells on the wing/blade things on his back) didn't seem to have this person convinced that the final version of Black Phantom could be much better.

Anyway, given the stage of prototype Black Phantom seems to be at, I expect somewhat significant changes by the final version-- it's just unclear whether the changes will make the model any better. Fire Lord and Witch Doctor both changed significantly between the early prototypes and the final sets. Notably, Fire Lord's color scheme was even more jumbled than the final set, with copious transparent shells on the legs and arms and yellow Technic parts on the feet. Witch Doctor originally had a more complex staff, as seen on his preliminary box art at ToyFair. Considering these changes, slight changes in Black Phantom's weird arm-things and his feet sound pretty believable. The same can't be said for the smaller sets, which I don't expect to change too drastically. Maybe a few color or decoration changes like we saw in some of the 2.0 Heroes (early pics of Evo gave him a blue head and Hero Core), but that's it.

The Inika sets were in 2006, but the first Bionicle sets were in 2001. And in some areas Bionicle started in 2000. Not to mention that unlike Hero Factory, one sage was a year long, not six months. In short the Inika were at least five years into Bionicle, not four hero factory rotations, though these Toa had all appeared previously to this as Matoran.

I don't think BIONICLE started in 2000 anywhere in the world, unless you mean that's when sets started appearing in stores (the same way 2011 sets started appearing in stores in November-December 2010). In some parts of the world, the sets did start appearing at the beginning of 2001, so some stores would have had them on shelves slightly earlier, but they were still 2001 sets. The difference was whether or not they were Summer 2001 sets (they were in the US).

Also, BIONICLE did sometimes have half-year sagas. Although the Bohrok-Kal and the Rahkshi arcs are often lumped together, the two were pretty much distinct storylines from one another.

[Tanma]

I don't think BIONICLE started in 2000 anywhere in the world, unless you mean that's when sets started appearing in stores (the same way 2011 sets started appearing in stores in November-December 2010). In some parts of the world, the sets did start appearing at the beginning of 2001, so some stores would have had them on shelves slightly earlier, but they were still 2001 sets. The difference was whether or not they were Summer 2001 sets (they were in the US).

Also, BIONICLE did sometimes have half-year sagas. Although the Bohrok-Kal and the Rahkshi arcs are often lumped together, the two were pretty much distinct storylines from one another.

true enough on the half year sages, but by 2004 those were replaced by year long arcs, the exception being 2008 depending on your persepective. I count 2000 because I have heard tales of either sets coming out in certain regions in that year, or the site first coming up then. The latter example won't work for most themese, but since Bionicle is highly story related the dawn of the official site could work as its start.

I don't know where nine inch came from, since I don't measure my Lego sets.

Edited October 4, 2011 by Tanma

[Aanchir]

true enough on the half year sages, but by 2004 those were replaced by year long arcs, the exception being 2008 depending on your persepective. I count 2000 because I have heard tales of either sets coming out in certain regions in that year, or the site first coming up then. The latter example won't work for most themese, but since Bionicle is highly story related the dawn of the official site could work as its start.

I don't know where nine inch came from, since I don't measure my Lego sets.

Usually I don't either. At least, I don't measure in inches or centimeters in action figure themes. I sometimes pay closer attention to measurements when creating City or Star Wars MOCs because, for instance, if I wanted to create a podracer to scale with Anakin's and Sebulba's Podracers, then I'd need to measure them to know what scale they're at. A pretty reliable rule of thumb is that one stud/module is equal to 8 mm.

In action figure themes, I tend to measure only in modules, usually to figure out comparative size (if I want to build or draw a Matoran, I generally want them to be to scale with other Matoran and Toa from the year of sets I'm replicating). But I was curious about the "9 inches" statement because that is something that's often included in catalogs and retail websites. So I was unsure if info about these sets had emerged which I had overlooked. But since the measurement doesn't seem to match my observations, I'm thinking it might have just been an assumption because the proportions looked Inika-ish.

[Dorek]

I dunno; someone on Flickr had been in contact with someone who works in a LEGO store who was able to confirm that Black Phantom would change. And I don't think this was just hopeful ignorance since even the changes they were told to expect (differently-built feet and armor shells on the wing/blade things on his back) didn't seem to have this person convinced that the final version of Black Phantom could be much better.

Anyway, given the stage of prototype Black Phantom seems to be at, I expect somewhat significant changes by the final version-- it's just unclear whether the changes will make the model any better. Fire Lord and Witch Doctor both changed significantly between the early prototypes and the final sets. Notably, Fire Lord's color scheme was even more jumbled than the final set, with copious transparent shells on the legs and arms and yellow Technic parts on the feet. Witch Doctor originally had a more complex staff, as seen on his preliminary box art at ToyFair. Considering these changes, slight changes in Black Phantom's weird arm-things and his feet sound pretty believable. The same can't be said for the smaller sets, which I don't expect to change too drastically. Maybe a few color or decoration changes like we saw in some of the 2.0 Heroes (early pics of Evo gave him a blue head and Hero Core), but that's it.

Yeah, the scuttlebutt about the Heroes being heavily prototyped was from BrickCon, and the officials there; as I say, probably just a general misinformation campaign. Considering the overall designs, and the similarly unchanged prototypes from years past, I don't expect the Heroes to change, nor do I want them to.

Anyway, I'd probably be okay with BP either way; as with BIONICLE, titan designs are often rehashed, but in this case, it's not a completely horrible design; hopefully it actually improves upon what was there before, as opposed to simply re-armoring at, a la Rocka XL.

Also, BIONICLE did sometimes have half-year sagas. Although the Bohrok-Kal and the Rahkshi arcs are often lumped together, the two were pretty much distinct storylines from one another.

That and 2009 were pretty much the only ones (and 2008, to an extent) =P. It's because 2003 was contingent on owning previous sets, which they soon realized was unfeasible, so all subsequent years were made to have both villains and good guys.