Kingdoms 2012?

[Nagyzee]

I agree that the blue in the Fantasy line looked much better than the red in the Kingdoms line. But on the other hand, I think the dragon colours were the best in a Castle theme EVER. And the crownie shields were pretty boring and bland compared to either shield in Kingdoms (though I'd love to have seen the lion shield with dark blue instead of red, that would have been truly something special!).

Structurally in terms of the sets, I definately don't agree with you that Fantasy had it better - and certainly not more diverse. I think that especially the last line in Kingdoms was incredibly diverse. I mean, look at MVR, King's Carriage and Blacksmith Attack... is that not diverse?

But yeah, the dragon faction lacked a really good structure. Still, I actually rate Kingdoms as the best LEGO Castle subtheme ever, all in all. And I think it's really too bad we never got to see a dragon castle and a ship or two of some kind (which Fantasy at least did).

The dragon colour scheme is indeed nice. They have a bit too many chains on some of their torsos for my tastes though. And their bases were pretty badly designed and also the story of yet another evil faction lead by a wizard has become kind of overused by now.

We certainly don't agree on the diversity. For me Fantasy was a lot more diverse though it's not surprising taking into account that that theme had a longer life, more sets and more factions. And some of those factions were very unique providing great opportunities for unique sets. We have never had a mine before, nor ships of proper size in Castle (if we don't count Vikings). For me these were the high points. And MMV of course. Various carts (including royal carts), castles, towers, gatehouses we get in every subtheme. From Kingdoms only VMR has this special novelty factor for me. And Fantasy Era was somewhat better in small sets, too. You can't beat The Knight (with the armour and extra weapon pieces) and especially The Final Joust. That was a little gem because of the horse barding in such a cheap set. As a plus for Kingdoms the new helm type is very nice but unlike the barding is not valuable enough to carry a whole small set.

[Hive]

We certainly don't agree on the diversity. For me Fantasy was a lot more diverse though it's not surprising taking into account that that theme had a longer life, more sets and more factions. And some of those factions were very unique providing great opportunities for unique sets. We have never had a mine before, nor ships of proper size in Castle (if we don't count Vikings). For me these were the high points. And MMV of course. Various carts (including royal carts), castles, towers, gatehouses we get in every subtheme. From Kingdoms only VMR has this special novelty factor for me. And Fantasy Era was somewhat better in small sets, too. You can't beat The Knight (with the armour and extra weapon pieces) and especially The Final Joust. That was a little gem because of the horse barding in such a cheap set. As a plus for Kingdoms the new helm type is very nice but unlike the barding is not valuable enough to carry a whole small set.

The MMV is the greatest Castle set ever made, in my opinion. Hell, maybe even the greatest LEGO set of all time. And yes, the smaller sets - the impulse sets in particular - were much better in the Fantasy line, as they were useable for army builders. But who wants more than one (if even that) of the jester and green wizard (I love the green wizard, but only one)? And yes, the fantasy line had more factions... but as you say yourself, it also had a longer life. Kingdoms would probably have gotten a couple more factions itself this year, had it not been discontinued (Forestmen and Black Falcons perhaps?). And the Fantasy boats, while not perfect, were indeed welcome rareities and are on top of my Castle wanted list. Hmm you know what? Come to think of it, I'll agree that Fantasy was more diverse, in spite of lacking civilian sets apart from the exclusive (and awesome) MMV.

I still like Kingdoms better as a whole though, and would have liked 1-2 more years worth of sets.

[Tyrant]

Certainly, but I think that when brainstorming ideas some ideas for minifigures get knocked around and end up as a CMF. For example, the beach themed CMFs (Surfer girl) could go with the recent Marina set. The Lumberjack from Series 5 might have been thought up when creating the City Forest sub-theme. Perhaps they didn't want to make an entire set involving the lumberjack, but thought it a good idea and threw it into the mix of CMFs. I have a similar feeling towards the Haz Mat guy and Classic Alien. Maybe they were ideas thrown around during brainstorming of Alien Conquest but never made it into the sub-theme for whatever reason. Seems logical.

Actually, you're right on this. At least for the alien and the haz mat guy. According to a post by Draykov about half way down this page on FBTB, there is a Brickjournal interview with Mark Stafford about Alien Conquest that makes it seem as if the Haz Mat guy, the Generic Gray Alien, and the upcoming Dark Blue Space Marine type guy all spun out of concepts that were initially proposed for Alien Conquest. I figure is this is the case with those figures, it isn't a stretch to think it happened with some other themes as well. I never would've thought of the lumberjack, but it makes sense now that you mention it. It would explain why we have a Mummy, a Pharoah, and a Cleopatra-type. Though the Mummy, along with the Vampire, the Zombie, the Mad Scientist, Frankenstein, and the Werewolf all spun out of Monster Fighter ideas. Or they might not have been sure they were going to go forward with that and decided to use the figure concepts.

[salty tbone]

Not sure why I originally replied to a four-month old post.

Anyway, I was surprised to see Kingdom sets disappear so quickly. I just put together my Mill Village Raid that I was lucky enough to find on clearance. It's such a fun set.

I'm at least glad that the MMV is separate from the Kingdom purge.

Edited January 13, 2012 by salty tbone

[Aanchir]

First welcome to Eurobricks

I also thought of the bear like Zeya (Polar bear had just a moveable head like the horse does now) while the Grizzly you can move the legs. I would say that is a partial indication because they have done it with other large animal type molds.

I don't spot many new bricks either and as we know each license theme gets quite a few new parts, POTC brought over 10 I think besides the figs themselves. So that is another good indication.

Finally TLG has never done this before if it is just simply a CGI manipulated image, that would be unfair to portray a horse charging only to get a standard horse in the set, something I think they wouldn't dare to do.

But at least one thing is certain a new color being tan for a horse

Saying "TLG has never done this before if it is just simply a CGI manipulated image" is a bit inaccurate-- in fact, if you count certain themes, they have done this often. Even in the first BIONICLE sets in 2001, rigid leg pieces were shown with bending knee joints and waist joints, and while this was reduced as the posability of the sets increased, CGI BIONICLE images continued to show things like glowing eyes and "battle damage" (scratches and things most visible in the high-resolution posters you could download from the website). Minifigures being shown with more flexibility than in real life is common in various themes (although rarely on the front of the box in CGI-- the Ninjago and Super Heroes themes use non-CGI illustrations, and these are kept separate from the main product image).

While I haven't gotten a good look at the preliminary images, I would be very happy for either a more posable horse mold or a rigid one in a less static-looking pose. It'd be great for minifigure chess sets!

[LEGOman273]

Actually, you're right on this. At least for the alien and the haz mat guy. According to a post by Draykov about half way down this page on FBTB, there is a Brickjournal interview with Mark Stafford about Alien Conquest that makes it seem as if the Haz Mat guy, the Generic Gray Alien, and the upcoming Dark Blue Space Marine type guy all spun out of concepts that were initially proposed for Alien Conquest. I figure is this is the case with those figures, it isn't a stretch to think it happened with some other themes as well. I never would've thought of the lumberjack, but it makes sense now that you mention it. It would explain why we have a Mummy, a Pharoah, and a Cleopatra-type. Though the Mummy, along with the Vampire, the Zombie, the Mad Scientist, Frankenstein, and the Werewolf all spun out of Monster Fighter ideas. Or they might not have been sure they were going to go forward with that and decided to use the figure concepts.

It also stated that AC beat out 4 other concepts that were more developed. This might explain why TLG did not make any more sets. It also means that we might get a new space/sci-fi theme in 2013.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Legoman273

[Piranha]

Saying "TLG has never done this before if it is just simply a CGI manipulated image" is a bit inaccurate-- in fact, if you count certain themes, they have done this often. Even in the first BIONICLE sets in 2001, rigid leg pieces were shown with bending knee joints and waist joints, and while this was reduced as the posability of the sets increased, CGI BIONICLE images continued to show things like glowing eyes and "battle damage" (scratches and things most visible in the high-resolution posters you could download from the website). Minifigures being shown with more flexibility than in real life is common in various themes (although rarely on the front of the box in CGI-- the Ninjago and Super Heroes themes use non-CGI illustrations, and these are kept separate from the main product image).

While I haven't gotten a good look at the preliminary images, I would be very happy for either a more posable horse mold or a rigid one in a less static-looking pose. It'd be great for minifigure chess sets!

Well I never followed Bionicle that is why But yes AFAIK. But usually those you mentioned are not major articulation like the horse is shown, I think it is very credible it will be a new horse mold.

[Piranha]

sad double post but since TLG confirmed no Kingdoms other than Joust in 2012 it looks like it is over.

Now to search for parts from LOTR to compliment Kingdoms. Also a good time to collect past great Castle sets and also do some MOCing.

[Zeya]

Now to search for parts from LOTR to compliment Kingdoms. Also a good time to collect past great Castle sets and also do some MOCing.

There's also a large castle set in the Monster Fighters theme. A lot of gray bricks, but the rooftops look like special "<insert that tiresome argument>" pieces, kind of like they did with the Harry Potter castles.

[Brig. Brick]

today I visit shop@home, and it's very disappointed to see only the Joust an a key chain , since I remember, Lego always made castles sets. Its disapointed that lego kills kindoms for the Lord of the Rings, and Lego did it before with the new pirates wave, sunk it to give space for Pirates of the Caribbean.

What about If I don´t want to pay extra for licenced themes?

[Vindicare]

today I visit shop@home, and it's very disappointed to see only the Joust an a key chain , since I remember, Lego always made castles sets. Its disapointed that lego kills kindoms for the Lord of the Rings, and Lego did it before with the new pirates wave, sunk it to give space for Pirates of the Caribbean.

What about If I don´t want to pay extra for licenced themes?

Then, we Castle fans have to go without...I've seen the video, is Helms Deep actually an entire castle, or just a wall and a few towers? To me, it looks like just that.

[The_Cook]

Then, we Castle fans have to go without...I've seen the video, is Helms Deep actually an entire castle, or just a wall and a few towers? To me, it looks like just that.

I'd concur with the later analysis.

If you're a minifig collector then LOTR is going to be a great theme for you, if you're a castle builder then LOTR is probably doing to be a bit of a dry patch.

In the past twenty years most of us can probably point to theme that they weren't that enamoured with and you just had to sit through it until something new came out. This might just be another one of those themes for you.

[Cwetqo]

I was in my favorite toy shop few days ago and deciding whether to buy MVR. After new year I was pretty low on cash, but since I saw that there is just one set left i asked if will get another shipment. Nice lady there let me look in 2012 trade catalogue (1H and 2H version) and there was no kongdom sets at all (exclusives are usully not in those catalogues). So, sadly, there will really be no no new Kingdoms set in 2012.

Im glad I finnaly got my MRV though (last box in that store and most likely in whole town, because I searched for it a lot). Whats interesting is that they still got several pieces of MMV (10193). So, at least in that store, Castle outlived Kingdoms.

[gosthrider]

I recently began to be interested into castle & kingdoms LEGO, and I was wondering why it's so hard to find some good set...

As a lots of people I hope that it won't be replaced by the LOTR theme.

So far I've bought a lots of missing bricks on bricklink, but I really want to find some good looking castle's set! I'm not so gOod to create them by my own...

Hope TLG will release some kingdoms set in 2012!

[Ardelon]

I recently began to be interested into castle & kingdoms LEGO, and I was wondering why it's so hard to find some good set...

As a lots of people I hope that it won't be replaced by the LOTR theme.

So far I've bought a lots of missing bricks on bricklink, but I really want to find some good looking castle's set! I'm not so gOod to create them by my own...

Hope TLG will release some kingdoms set in 2012!

Sorry, Kingdoms is gone (or so says the general consensus here). See the first post on page 34 of this thread, Artifex posted a confirmation of no new sets in 2012.

[Zeya]

I'm not a mint collector or very much of a reseller. But I can't help but think that the short run given to the second Kingdoms wave is going to mean that these sets will command a high price on the aftermarket, especially a few years down the road. The MVR in particular should fetch quite a pretty penny in a couple years or so.

At the same time, I'm kind of surprised that TLG is continuing with selling MMV. I heard as part of the LotR licensing deal, that TLG can't sell competing products. But I've been thinking, maybe that just applies to general retail stores - no medieval/fantasy stuff sitting on shelves next to LotR (looking cheaper and more imaginative, stealing sales). I guess TLG can still sell exclusive sets and not break that contract somehow, and so they can continue to sell MMV and the Kingdoms joust set. But it just feels so odd as an observer that MMV is going on, what, year three of sales (?) when the second wave of Kingdoms just flew by. They hit shelves back in March/April and now they're gone. I guess I'm glad that they managed to squeeze out the joust set before LotR hits the streets.

[Tyrant]

I'm not a mint collector or very much of a reseller. But I can't help but think that the short run given to the second Kingdoms wave is going to mean that these sets will command a high price on the aftermarket, especially a few years down the road. The MVR in particular should fetch quite a pretty penny in a couple years or so.

I believe you might be right on the MVR (and maybe the others purely based on short shelf life) because it is one of the rare few civilian sets and has 3 unique figures. Also, for all we know, we might not see the gray horse or some of those animals elsewhere. I think (and hope) we will see them elsewhere, but you never know.

At the same time, I'm kind of surprised that TLG is continuing with selling MMV. I heard as part of the LotR licensing deal, that TLG can't sell competing products. But I've been thinking, maybe that just applies to general retail stores - no medieval/fantasy stuff sitting on shelves next to LotR (looking cheaper and more imaginative, stealing sales). I guess TLG can still sell exclusive sets and not break that contract somehow, and so they can continue to sell MMV and the Kingdoms joust set. But it just feels so odd as an observer that MMV is going on, what, year three of sales (?) when the second wave of Kingdoms just flew by. They hit shelves back in March/April and now they're gone. I guess I'm glad that they managed to squeeze out the joust set before LotR hits the streets.

I'm not meaning to sound like I doubt what you are saying, because I honestly don't doubt it, but where did you hear that they have that kind of clause? I know that they did in SW, but I had heard that they were able to renegotiate around 2003 or so to remove that clause. If that is true, I could see where they would try to avoid putting themselves in that situation again. Anyway, I was just curious about that point as I had not heard that that was the case before now.

As for the exclusives, I have been wondering how the MMV is still hanging in there. I wonder if that means that they made a lot of them and are still working through their supply, or if it means that the set is selling like hotcakes and they just keep pumping them out? That aside, perhaps the meaning of the cryptic answer we got earlier saying Castle would continue means that they are going to keep making exclusives? Not just meaning to keep manufacturing the existing ones, I mean to keep making new, exclusive sets. Purely optimistic speculation on my part obviously, but it would explain what they meant and explain why they are keeping MMV.

[Piranha]

I think it was confirmed awhile ago MMV was not being produced anymore and anything that is left is the remaining stock.

[Zeya]

I'm not meaning to sound like I doubt what you are saying, because I honestly don't doubt it, but where did you hear that they have that kind of clause? I

Perfectly reasonable to doubt, considering the circumstances. I heard it 3rd-hand anyway. I was told by a well-respected EB member in a PM. I don't want to "out" the person because I don't know if it was meant to be semi-confidential. And I also don't know where they learned about it from either, although I suspect this person has some friends in high places in the Lego community.

They told me that part of the Warner Bros. / LotR license was a non-compete clause pertaining to similar Lego themes. But they also told me that castle would be back one day, which sounded encouraging. They also stated in the PM that once the current supply of Kingdoms is gone, it's gone (except the exclusives as we know). They told me that at a time when people were still throwing back and forth whether Kingdoms was possibly continuing with new sets into 2012, so that tells me they have some solid knowledge there.

All in all, I wouldn't doubt what they say, especially since people have said the same non-compete thing was true with Star Wars for quite some time. I think that's just how these contracts are written. There's probably a similar thing in place with the DC/Marvel contract, making sure that TLG won't hold a concurrent contract with some other comic book maker, and also won't make some generic Lego superheroes line.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Zeya

[Artanis I]

Here's a funny thing, around here the MMV was snapped up from shelves within a day or 2 of its original release and has never reappeared. I never saw it. No one even got a second shipment.

[Fredulus]

I just recently got back into LEGO, and was really sad to hear Kingdoms might be leaving (though I am a big LotR fan). I did some looking around and found this post on a blog. Basically, in a conversation on Twitter, LEGO says Kingdoms is not ending, and there will be more sets in addition to Joust. I looked at LEGO's twitter myself and found this, also:

So if I'm understanding all this correctly, it's most likely we'll see Joust plus a few other exclusives this year. Am I right?

[Piranha]

why must we go in circles

[Nicker]

I just recently got back into LEGO, and was really sad to hear Kingdoms might be leaving (though I am a big LotR fan). I did some looking around and found this post on a blog. Basically, in a conversation on Twitter, LEGO says Kingdoms is not ending, and there will be more sets in addition to Joust. I looked at LEGO's twitter myself and found this, also:

So if I'm understanding all this correctly, it's most likely we'll see Joust plus a few other exclusives this year. Am I right?

I doubt we will see anymore Kingdoms sets this year but it's very possible we may see another Kingdoms exclusive set next year if they want to continue Kingdoms on some level until they are done with LOTR sets. My guess as to why we aren't seeing Kingdoms sets alongside the LOTR sets is because they have limited shelf space in stores that needs to be freed up to make room for LOTR and Hobbit sets and TLG only has so many designers and may simply not have the resources needed to keep Kingdoms going at full force while designing LOTR and Hobbit sets.

[Fredulus]

I doubt we will see anymore Kingdoms sets this year but it's very possible we may see another Kingdoms exclusive set next year if they want to continue Kingdoms on some level until they are done with LOTR sets. My guess as to why we aren't seeing Kingdoms sets alongside the LOTR sets is because they have limited shelf space in stores that needs to be freed up to make room for LOTR and Hobbit sets and TLG only has so many designers and may simply not have the resources needed to keep Kingdoms going at full force while designing LOTR and Hobbit sets.

Oh yes I agree, that makes sense, but if it's the case why is LEGO telling us there will be more sets? I don't get it.

[David Thomsen]

'round and 'round and 'round we go...

This whole topic is an infinite loop.

why must we go in circles