New Lego 10223 Kingdoms Joust Exclusive

[metalandi]

The blacksmith building from MMV didn't have stairs either. They're not so important to me, since they would take away a lot of space also.

Edited October 6, 2011 by metalandi

[Algernon]

This is a fabulous set, I particularly love the detail and attention provided for the huge gate. Great minifigs too. The whole set just screams "renaissance fair".

LEGO's really knocking it out of the park with these exclusives!

[Scorpiox]

This seems quite neat, though obviously not in my price range. It's nice to see a more civilian side to kingdoms and the Black Falcon is . It could do with a Falcon squire or easily replace one of the Lion guards with him. The mounted Dragon knight from Escape from Dragon Prison is perfect for a Dragon knight champion!

[Klaus-Dieter]

Thank you very much for this information and for these pics, I Scream Clone!

It's great that we finally get a decent joust set which has been overdue since decades!

This set does look absolutely :wub: !

Although I don't like some things (only a falcon knight but no falcon soldier to assist him, supposably no interior in the light blue cottage, no seats for the king and the queen, no place for minifigs inside the tents, only very few accessory) and imo the price is 20 Euros too much, I must say that it's a perfect addition to MMV.

Klaus-Dieter

Edited October 7, 2011 by Klaus-Dieter

[LandShark]

Why have I not commented on this yet?!

I guess I was just staring at the pictures for too long.

Anyway, I think this is a worthy successor to the MMV. Everything looks great, the walls, the roofs, better than I could have ever imagined.

I can't tell you how much my heart sank when I realized that the picture I had fallen in love with was of 2 sets.

Why?

The single model just looks incomplete, and I'm not sure if 2 is within my price range.

I just hope this set has a long production run. I might have to get one when it comes out, then another the next year.

But the Falcon Knight () pretty much ensures a continuation of Kingdoms. I'm not too sure about the dark-green plume and tent. Too similar to Dragon Knights, in my opinion.

Overall, a very good set. The 'buy 2!' thing is kind of a scam, but it's still irresistible.

[Aanchir]

Why have I not commented on this yet?!

I guess I was just staring at the pictures for too long.

Anyway, I think this is a worthy successor to the MMV. Everything looks great, the walls, the roofs, better than I could have ever imagined.

I can't tell you how much my heart sank when I realized that the picture I had fallen in love with was of 2 sets.

Why?

The single model just looks incomplete, and I'm not sure if 2 is within my price range.

I just hope this set has a long production run. I might have to get one when it comes out, then another the next year.

But the Falcon Knight () pretty much ensures a continuation of Kingdoms. I'm not too sure about the dark-green plume and tent. Too similar to Dragon Knights, in my opinion.

Overall, a very good set. The 'buy 2!' thing is kind of a scam, but it's still irresistible.

I wouldn't get so excited about the Falcon Knight being evidence for Kingdoms returning. The Imperial Flagship has the exclusive Governor's Daughter fig, who similarly had two new decorations: a skirt and a blouse which together made a full gown. However, neither of these parts has been seen since that set in any theme. The only thing the Falcon Knight has that the governor's daughter didn't is one piece in a new color-- his black helmet.

Not saying I believe Kingdoms is over for certain. But it's too early to say it's continuing for certain, either.

[lego tripper]

Well I for one am definitely hoping for a new Black Falcon wave, but even if that's not the case, the knight is a perect addition to this set.

[LandShark]

I wouldn't get so excited about the Falcon Knight being evidence for Kingdoms returning. The Imperial Flagship has the exclusive Governor's Daughter fig, who similarly had two new decorations: a skirt and a blouse which together made a full gown. However, neither of these parts has been seen since that set in any theme. The only thing the Falcon Knight has that the governor's daughter didn't is one piece in a new color-- his black helmet.

Not saying I believe Kingdoms is over for certain. But it's too early to say it's continuing for certain, either.

It was wishful thinking, I admit. But I think it would be a bit of a tease for Lego to essentially create a new faction only to end the theme right after.

And I don't think the Governor's Daughter is really a valid argument, we rarely see a dress piece used more than once.

I might be being too defensive, so I'm sorry if I sound rude.

[Haltiamieli]

But I think it would be a bit of a tease for Lego to essentially create a new faction only to end the theme right after.

I think it would be a perfect tease, as I commented on another thread. Not to say that I would exactly complain if they do indeed release a Black Falcon faction next year, that would be awesome too (not least because it would mean Kingdoms continuing), but still it would seriously reduce the awesomeness of Kingdoms Joust in my view.

[David Thomsen]

I have one main reason for doubting that the Black Falcons will return - they are too similar to the Dragon Knights. If they go to the effort of introducing a new faction, why would it just be another group of 'evil dark knights with green plumes'? They have so many other options, like Forestmen and Wolfpack, with very different aesthetics.

[ziljin]

They could just make a new Horse barding and new black falcon knights/soldiers for new sets and leave the medieval joust one unique and only available at this set or 20 dollars at bricklink!!!

[LandShark]

I think it would be a perfect tease, as I commented on another thread. Not to say that I would exactly complain if they do indeed release a Black Falcon faction next year, that would be awesome too (not least because it would mean Kingdoms continuing), but still it would seriously reduce the awesomeness of Kingdoms Joust in my view.

I have one main reason for doubting that the Black Falcons will return - they are too similar to the Dragon Knights. If they go to the effort of introducing a new faction, why would it just be another group of 'evil dark knights with green plumes'? They have so many other options, like Forestmen and Wolfpack, with very different aesthetics.

Why do all of my arguments have flaws.

Maybe they could keep the Falcon Champion exclusive, and have more basic Falcon Knights, without the dark green.

But this is a subject for the Kingdoms 2012? topic, so lets move there before we get in trouble.

[billythreechins]

that looks great I really want to buy it!!!

[LEGO Train 12 Volts]

Awesome!

Fantastic colors and lot of pieces!

[Ogre]

I think that this new 'Joust' set signals the end of Kingdoms, unfortunately.

It smacks of that "last big hurrah" like MMV, Imperial Flagship, etc.

Plus...if you look at the whole range of pics available, it's not a "new Falcon knight figure"...it's a DRAGON knight figure DISGUISED as a 'Falcon' in black armour...which is exactly the sort of thing you get with "black knight" tales (King Richard as the Black Knight in Ivanhoe, for example).

As much as I hope and pray that I'm wrong, I'm quite convinced that this beautiful set is the harbinger of doom for the Kingdoms line.

[Fives]

I believe that some one brought it up before, but the MMV came out before the last wave of Castle. That could be the case with this set. Maybe they will release three or four final sets with some Falcons as the bad guys.

[Ardelon]

I think it would be a perfect tease, as I commented on another thread. Not to say that I would exactly complain if they do indeed release a Black Falcon faction next year, that would be awesome too (not least because it would mean Kingdoms continuing), but still it would seriously reduce the awesomeness of Kingdoms Joust in my view.

If TLG did introduce a falcon faction, the awesomeness of this first one would still be preserved for a few months, as long as we didnt know whether there actually would be a followup faction. So TLG would cash in on those buying the set ofr the uniqueness factor of the falcon knight at first, and follow up with a full-fledged faction later. It might seem a bit unsporting, but it would make sense from a business POV.

I have one main reason for doubting that the Black Falcons will return - they are too similar to the Dragon Knights. If they go to the effort of introducing a new faction, why would it just be another group of 'evil dark knights with green plumes'? They have so many other options, like Forestmen and Wolfpack, with very different aesthetics.

Maybe any following falcon faction isnt fully fleshed out yet, so TLG went with the dragon torso for this set. I don't know whether there is any precedent for this, though.

My points are just for the sake of argument, though. I would prefer the black falcon to be a one-off, as I don't like that his shield doesn't match the orginal falcon shields, so I would have a hard time with the (in)compatibility of new and old falcons.

[Piranha]

I wouldn't get so excited about the Falcon Knight being evidence for Kingdoms returning. The Imperial Flagship has the exclusive Governor's Daughter fig, who similarly had two new decorations: a skirt and a blouse which together made a full gown. However, neither of these parts has been seen since that set in any theme. The only thing the Falcon Knight has that the governor's daughter didn't is one piece in a new color-- his black helmet.

Not saying I believe Kingdoms is over for certain. But it's too early to say it's continuing for certain, either.

true but the Governors Daughter is more comparable to the Princess than the Falcon Knight because a whole new faction couldn't have been hinted at from the Governor's Daughter that was just a new fig thrown in to sweeten the deal. The Falcon Knight while possibly just thrown in so we wouldn't get two of the same knights with bardings but also has a new coat of arms and would be a good way to introduce a new rival faction to the Lion Knights.

So in the end this could swing either way but I was caustically optimistic when I saw they had put in a new Black Falcon. Teaser or not.

I think that this new 'Joust' set signals the end of Kingdoms, unfortunately.

It smacks of that "last big hurrah" like MMV, Imperial Flagship, etc.

Plus...if you look at the whole range of pics available, it's not a "new Falcon knight figure"...it's a DRAGON knight figure DISGUISED as a 'Falcon' in black armour...which is exactly the sort of thing you get with "black knight" tales (King Richard as the Black Knight in Ivanhoe, for example).

As much as I hope and pray that I'm wrong, I'm quite convinced that this beautiful set is the harbinger of doom for the Kingdoms line.

No where is it mentioned that the Falcon Knight is a Dragon Knight disguised but it is possible there is an alliance or so. I actually think they designed this set for a mounted Dragon Knight but scraped it at the last minute for a new Black Falcon not to outrage fans for getting two same old mounted knights

Edited October 9, 2011 by Macoco

[Ogre]

No where is it mentioned that the Falcon Knight is a Dragon Knight disguised but it is possible there is an alliance or so. I actually think they designed this set for a mounted Dragon Knight but scraped it at the last minute for a new Black Falcon not to outrage fans for getting two same old mounted knights

No, it's not STATED flat-out, I'll give you that...but, look at the pics...Dragon knight's body...dark green plume...dark green and black tent. The Dragons colours are dark green and black. Coincidence? Doubtful.

In addition...I really don't think that TLG would be so lazy as to create all new barding, breastplate and shield for an exclusive set and then 'cheap out' on the body under that breastplate. I mean, c'mon...they threw in a brand new noblewoman and they're going to take the easy way out on the arguably 'more important' Jousting Knight figure? I don't think so.

The LEGO Group may have stumbled on products here and there but, they're not dumb. In fact, they're usually quite smart when it comes to storylines, unexpected twists, etc. and including a Dragon knight "in disguise", effectively co-opting the "Black Knight" myth, is EXACTLY the sort of thing I would expect them to do.

No way did they just suddenly "change their minds" on the fig that they were going to include in the set. Not a chance.

First of all: they put a LOT of time and effort into designing sets...even the ones that fail miserably. A change of figure design would not be a 'last minute' thing and it wouldn't be done in such an obvious manner.

Secondly: they're quite aware that the Dragon knight is available in a VERY inexpensive set already (minus a lance...big deal) and there is no way on God's green earth that they are going to toss a 'cheap' fig into an EXCLUSIVE set that has a $120-150 (North American) price point. Not going to happen. The howls of outrage would be heard clear across the Atlantic. Re-using the Lion knight makes a lot more sense, because he only appears in one other set, which costs significantly more than the one that the Dragon knight appears in.

Thirdly: 'Kingdoms' has been a two-faction theme from the get-go. It's TOTALLY in keeping with the way LEGO does things to include one of those factions 'in disguise' in furtherance of their conflict storyline.

In the end, it's all speculation, for sure...until we hear something 'official' on the matter.

[TheLegoDr]

Ogre

My thoughts exactly. I highly doubt a company that wants to make money would make such a huge mistake and switch a figure at the last second. It takes time to design anything, let alone produce it.

[Haltiamieli]

No, it's not STATED flat-out, I'll give you that...but, look at the pics...Dragon knight's body...dark green plume...dark green and black tent. The Dragons colours are dark green and black. Coincidence? Doubtful.

Wouldn't that make it a pretty darn bad disguise?

In addition...I really don't think that TLG would be so lazy as to create all new barding, breastplate and shield for an exclusive set and then 'cheap out' on the body under that breastplate. I mean, c'mon...they threw in a brand new noblewoman and they're going to take the easy way out on the arguably 'more important' Jousting Knight figure? I don't think so.

Dunno. When every new design rises the costs, why waste money on a piece that is hidden anyway? TLC has done that before, at least with the Crownie King who had an old viking torso under his armour. A noblewoman wouldn't be a (big) sell-point if it wasn't for her new design, while the Black Falcon knight will sell regardless of his torso print, because of his armour, shield etc. Personally I think "a disguised Dragon knight" would be much more lame excuse for not doing a new torso design than simple budgetary reasons.

Whatever the reasons, I wish they had designed a new torso for the knight, because then those of us who are going to buy two sets for the completed tower gate structure could have made the second knight, stripped of his armour, a squire for the first one.

[Piranha]

No, it's not STATED flat-out, I'll give you that...but, look at the pics...Dragon knight's body...dark green plume...dark green and black tent. The Dragons colours are dark green and black. Coincidence? Doubtful.

True but they could be an alliance of some sort.

In addition...I really don't think that TLG would be so lazy as to create all new barding, breastplate and shield for an exclusive set and then 'cheap out' on the body under that breastplate. I mean, c'mon...they threw in a brand new noblewoman and they're going to take the easy way out on the arguably 'more important' Jousting Knight figure? I don't think so.

Emm I don't know about that, they might have reasoned he has a new breastplate, who is going to look underneath? or ever have the Knight not mounted in armor? Saves money for them and makes sense to not give both a new torso print and armor plate. The Princess and Nobleman do have new prints because their torsos are always open and not hidden like a knights. On the Lion Knights side all the Knights have the same torsos too.

The LEGO Group may have stumbled on products here and there but, they're not dumb. In fact, they're usually quite smart when it comes to storylines, unexpected twists, etc. and including a Dragon knight "in disguise", effectively co-opting the "Black Knight" myth, is EXACTLY the sort of thing I would expect them to do.

They would have mentioned that in the product description, don't you think? Because after all that is where they put the ideas and play opportunities and story-lines about the set at always.

No way did they just suddenly "change their minds" on the fig that they were going to include in the set. Not a chance.

First of all: they put a LOT of time and effort into designing sets...even the ones that fail miserably. A change of figure design would not be a 'last minute' thing and it wouldn't be done in such an obvious manner.

TLG does things for no apparent reasons it seems like sometimes.

Secondly: they're quite aware that the Dragon knight is available in a VERY inexpensive set already (minus a lance...big deal) and there is no way on God's green earth that they are going to toss a 'cheap' fig into an EXCLUSIVE set that has a $120-150 (North American) price point. Not going to happen. The howls of outrage would be heard clear across the Atlantic. Re-using the Lion knight makes a lot more sense, because he only appears in one other set, which costs significantly more than the one that the Dragon knight appears in.

That is why they recycled the torso and leg print because it is minimal and gave us the good stuff like the armor, helmet and shield.

Thirdly: 'Kingdoms' has been a two-faction theme from the get-go. It's TOTALLY in keeping with the way LEGO does things to include one of those factions 'in disguise' in furtherance of their conflict storyline.

Actually the title of the theme "Kingdoms" is alluding to more than one or two. Thus I always found it appropriate for different and more Kingdoms to enter the picture.

In the end however it is whatever you want it to be

[Jack Bricker]

I doubt this would happen but, I wonder if Lego would ever continue Kingdoms for a third or fourth year and come out with woodland and black falcon factions with castles, fortresses and forrest keeps. That would be just too awesome.

Edited October 11, 2011 by Jack Bricker

[David Thomsen]

I don't understand why everyone is so fixated on whether or not the Black Falcon is 'officially' a Dragon Knight in disguise. Probably they just had a lot of green plumes that needed using up.

[Zeya]

I don't understand why everyone is so fixated on whether or not the Black Falcon is 'officially' a Dragon Knight in disguise. Probably they just had a lot of green plumes that needed using up.

Mainly because it's fun to speculate. I like to sometimes figure out if Lego has a story arc going on among their sets. It goes without saying that using your imagination is part of the fun and it can really be whatever you want it to be.

More concretely, the figure has the same legs-torso-head combination as the figure from Blacksmith Attack. So it's a reasonable possibility that he is a dragon knight in disguise. Add in the green plume to that too, I suppose.

But all the fuss is in wondering what future sets will be. Will kingdoms continue? If it does, will there be a falcon faction? We can "look forward" to these discussions for the next few months until we see the summer lineup.