LEGO® CUUSOO 空想 - Turn your model wishes into reality

[Faefrost]

I personal think legends of Zelda and Portal would out sell that exo suit and you guys keep saying why video games wouldn't work, but are you guys forgetting about Minecraft which lego has now made 3 sets of.

Maybe they would. But Gamers often do exist in a bubble, and do not realize both the size or the limits of their hobby. Legend of Zelda has roughly 8-10 million truly rabid fans. But as soon as you cross outside of the base of Nintendo players the knowlege drop off is sharp. They know the name Zelda. They know links hat etc. But that's about it. Portal is actually a little more mass market and pop culture. I think that they gave serious consideration to making it. I am also sure that the short shelf life of video games and the fads of support and memes that surround them can scare the actual level headed production planing people. They took a risk in Minecraft and it paid off. But they are not quite there yet to jump on the video game bandwagon. Some numbers and some core rules will have to change before that will become an easy decision.

[Paul Boratko]

Minecraft translated well to Lego because the entire point in Minecraft is beased upon the same thing in Lego, which is building... Minecraft actually made sense as a Lego project from the start... And really, it's not like those sets required any advanced developement...

Minecraft also being an independent company rather than a huge one like Nintendo most likely also made things a bit easier to work with...

[Faefrost]

Minecraft translated well to Lego because the entire point in Minecraft is beased upon the same thing in Lego, which is building... Minecraft actually made sense as a Lego project from the start... And really, it's not like those sets required any advanced developement...

Minecraft also being an independent company rather than a huge one like Nintendo most likely also made things a bit easier to work with...

Minecraft also had 10 million paying customers while still in "Beta", at the time that the decision for the Lego Minecraft set was made. The game had not yet achieved full release or full market penetration. Its user base was and still is climbing. Whereas Portal 2 had 4 million units sold, and hit its peak penetration in 2011. Zelda has roughly 8-10 million fans worldwide across all of the released games. That number will remain stable without some new game that sells a buttload of WiiU's. The IP is artificially restricted by the platform that it runs on. (which is yet another issue with video game properties.)

[Faefrost]

There is a little bit more info on this most recent review process, some comments regarding rejected projects, and how that impacts going forward in a Q&A post on CuuSoo

https://legocuusoo.uservoice.com/knowledgebase/articles/272853-questions-related-to-the-winter-2012-spring-and

A lot of very generic answers without a lot of takeaways, but still you can figure a few things out reading between the lines.

- Projects are evaluated independently of each other, and not in competition. They pass or fail review based on the individual merits of their business case.

- it looks like they did a very deep review of the portal project, and went the extra mile to try and make it viable. I strongly suspect that the ultimate decision regarding the project fell on whether they felt they needed those new structural pieces, and what it would take to make them.

- they say that each project is evaluated independently, and that the failure of 2 Zelda projects does not mean that a third will not succeed at review. I would caution that it is clear that they have nothing against the IP of Legend of Zelda, nor do they have an automatic rejection of Zelda themed projects. But let's be honest. If the next Zelda set presents with the same barrier to production, namely the needed new hairpieces, it will in all likelihood face the same results. The problem with the LoZ sets isn't the IP. It's the new tooling.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Faefrost

[Infernum]

Too bad about portal. That would've been a great set. LoZ is a weird case, seems like the mold is keeping them from producing it. The active LoZ project's creator came up with an idea about that. He said he'd put his 1% towards a new molding machine. Sadly, if every one of the 10,000 CUUSOO sets sold and each was priced at $39.99, that 1% would only be $4,000, roughly a tenth of what a new molding machine would (at least) cost.

[Faefrost]

Too bad about portal. That would've been a great set. LoZ is a weird case, seems like the mold is keeping them from producing it. The active LoZ project's creator came up with an idea about that. He said he'd put his 1% towards a new molding machine. Sadly, if every one of the 10,000 CUUSOO sets sold and each was priced at $39.99, that 1% would only be $4,000, roughly a tenth of what a new molding machine would (at least) cost.

A tenth? I think tooling starts around $80,000 and goes rapidly upwards from there. The reason CuuSoo does not allow for new tooling is a new part can easily be 25% or more of the retail price of the set, given the low limited production numbers. New tooling is 1% of a sets retail price for regular mass distribution production sets, where the typical production runs are hundreds of thousands if not a million sets. For CuuSoo's production runs of 20,000 it just isn't viable to amortize tooling costs. And this isn't limited to CuuSoo. Ever notice how we don't see new unique tooling in Exclusive sets like Modulars? Same reason. Almost all new tooling is designed to be used in the regular retail sets. The stuff you see on the shelves at WalMart or TRU.

[Infernum]

A tenth? I think tooling starts around $80,000 and goes rapidly upwards from there. The reason CuuSoo does not allow for new tooling is a new part can easily be 25% or more of the retail price of the set, given the low limited production numbers. New tooling is 1% of a sets retail price for regular mass distribution production sets, where the typical production runs are hundreds of thousands if not a million sets. For CuuSoo's production runs of 20,000 it just isn't viable to amortize tooling costs. And this isn't limited to CuuSoo. Ever notice how we don't see new unique tooling in Exclusive sets like Modulars? Same reason. Almost all new tooling is designed to be used in the regular retail sets. The stuff you see on the shelves at WalMart or TRU.

I've heard the cheapest molds were around 40,000 but 80,000 sounds much more realistic. Honestly, I can't blame TLG for not making new molds. It just isn't worth it for CUUSOO sets.

[Faefrost]

I've heard the cheapest molds were around 40,000 but 80,000 sounds much more realistic. Honestly, I can't blame TLG for not making new molds. It just isn't worth it for CUUSOO sets.

It's not that it isn't worth it, or isn't desirable. It's simply that the numbers don't make it feasible. It's pure business math. Nothing more nothing less. And it is expected not just of CuuSoo, but any smaller more experimental programs. Heck CuuSoo actually has more flexibility and production resources than the first few Modular buildings, which were limited not just by no new parts, but had to use existing parts and colors that were already in stock the warehouse. No color changes, no printing, no making another batch of something that wasn't in stock. As the products popularity grew and sales increased the restrictions faded. This will eventually happen with CuuSoo as well. But new unique tooling will be the big barrier that will not be crossed for a very very long time.

Perhaps the best hope for those wishing for Zelda stuff might be the recent interest the CMF line has in licensed properties. CMF's because of their nature, and their high margin, have a very high new tooling budget. If Lego would ever seek a license to do a Nintendo based CMF series then the tooling would be a given.

[Piranha]

There is a little bit more info on this most recent review process, some comments regarding rejected projects, and how that impacts going forward in a Q&A post on CuuSoo

https://legocuusoo.u...2012-spring-and

The most interesting part of that:

Q: Does the fact that three review periods happened at once mean there was only one production slot to make a LEGO set, and only one set had a chance to be produced?

A: We’re not going to discuss our production capacity, as this is internal information related to our business operations.

That is a really good question, and I would have liked to have gotten a real answer. Because, since when did CUUSOO become a competition with a "winner" as portrayed in the YouTube video? Even though they may say it isn't a competition, if they can only release one CUUSOO set at a time, when reviewing a group they are theoretically picking a "winner" from the group i.e the best fit with the LEGO brand as a real product.

The next part, where it gets really interesting, is what if the Exo suit wasn't in review (not making it to 10k)? Then what would CUUSOO have done? Would they have picked another project? Do they view it is as bad PR when all projects get rejected and none pass? I think it is pretty safe to draw the conclusion, yes. That is the only reason they grouped all those previous reviews together, even if they try and say otherwise.

[Infernum]

The next part, where it gets really interesting, is what if the Exo suit wasn't in review (not making it to 10k)? Then what would CUUSOO have done? Would they have picked another project? Do they view it is as bad PR when all projects get rejected and none pass? I think it is pretty safe to draw the conclusion, yes. That is the only reason they grouped all those previous reviews together, even if they try and say otherwise.

Interesting point. It would have looked REALLY bad if they took all that time just to eliminate all the concepts. I wish they would release two sets from one review, just to show that they can produce more than one.

[Faefrost]

The most interesting part of that:

That is a really good question, and I would have liked to have gotten a real answer. Because, since when did CUUSOO become a competition with a "winner" as portrayed in the YouTube video? Even though they may say it isn't a competition, if they can only release one CUUSOO set at a time, when reviewing a group they are theoretically picking a "winner" from the group i.e the best fit with the LEGO brand as a real product.

The next part, where it gets really interesting, is what if the Exo suit wasn't in review (not making it to 10k)? Then what would CUUSOO have done? Would they have picked another project? Do they view it is as bad PR when all projects get rejected and none pass? I think it is pretty safe to draw the conclusion, yes. That is the only reason they grouped all those previous reviews together, even if they try and say otherwise.

The implication we have always had (although hard to prove) is that CuuSoo theoretically has 3 or 4 production slots per year, roughly corresponding to the quarterly review periods. Although in hindsight this might be overestimating it, and actual production might be more akin to 2 effective slots. Remember we also don't know how repops, like making more Minecraft or BttF sets impact the schedule? Are those additional two new Minecraft sets considered part of CuuSoo's production budget? Etc?

Also "in theory" all sets are reviewed independently on their merits and those that pass go into a queue to wait for one of those production slots. So reviews that have no winners are balanced by reviews that have 2 or more, with the possibility for some production backlog. In actual practice I don't think the review team can really avoid comparing one to the other, and selecting those they like best of the lot. The fact that they have selected at best 1 per review (less now) seems to imply that they are facing a stringent review and trying hard not to generate a production backlog.

I think the vagueness of the answers is more to avoid making any promises that they may not be able to keep. They don't want to say "we can do 4 sets a year" because people get outraged when they only then do 2. They wish to leave their production options open and not subject to public review or flame throwing. Sad but understandable.

Interesting point. It would have looked REALLY bad if they took all that time just to eliminate all the concepts. I wish they would release two sets from one review, just to show that they can produce more than one.

This next review, with 7 sets, will probably be the best test of whether it really is one per, or if they will pass multiple sets at once?

[Infernum]

Faefrost, I love how sensible and clear your posts are. I always learn something or look at something in a new light.

This next review, with 7 sets, will probably be the best test of whether it really is one per, or if they will pass multiple sets at once?

Good point! Really only six though, as I doubt they'll produce two Ghostbusters sets. How will they split it up though? Will both designers be credited? I think it depends on how TLG approaches the concept.

[AndyC]

That is a really good question, and I would have liked to have gotten a real answer. Because, since when did CUUSOO become a competition with a "winner" as portrayed in the YouTube video? Even though they may say it isn't a competition, if they can only release one CUUSOO set at a time, when reviewing a group they are theoretically picking a "winner" from the group i.e the best fit with the LEGO brand as a real product.

From the very beginning they've said that it's possible for multiple sets to pass review, in which case they'd be queued up and produced in subsequent available slots (which would be interesting from the PoV of guesstimating how frequent such slots might be) and they've also always said that there is no guarantee that any set would pass in a given review. The idea that each review period is some sort of competition seems to have been very much a community thing, possibly driven by the fact only one set from each passed the first few reviews (and compounded by the results of multiple review periods being announced this time with a single set outcome)

[Faefrost]

From the very beginning they've said that it's possible for multiple sets to pass review, in which case they'd be queued up and produced in subsequent available slots (which would be interesting from the PoV of guesstimating how frequent such slots might be) and they've also always said that there is no guarantee that any set would pass in a given review. The idea that each review period is some sort of competition seems to have been very much a community thing, possibly driven by the fact only one set from each passed the first few reviews (and compounded by the results of multiple review periods being announced this time with a single set outcome)

I know they say that each is reviewed independently and on it's own merits. But there are also a few statements that may imply some degree of direct comparison, and an ideal goal of 1 per quarter. Granted these way be subject to evolving internal processes at Lego that we know nothing about.

As an example, this from the Review Results for the Eve Grifter project." The supporters we received for the EVE Online Ships – Rifter project allowed us to examine the feasibility of another niche gaming-related product. However the Rifter presented a more challenging business case when considered alongside other potential products in this Review period. Therefore, the LEGO Review Board has decided that this project does not meet the requirements for the business case."

Also of interest from the CuuSoo post on the review process.

"We queue for production models that pass the LEGO Review

At the end of the review, projects will either be approved or not approved based on how they fit our review criteria. When we announce the review results, we’ll also reveal the final production models for each approved project. We can then potentially pick one project per quarter to put into immediate production as the next LEGO CUUSOO set. This potential set is chosen based on strategic fit and the business case from the review.

The remaining projects that pass Review will be placed in a queue where they will await an open production slot and may be chosen for production at a later date. The order in which they are produced is also dependent on strategy and the business case for each. As the LEGO Group alone takes on the cost of production and associated risk, we will choose LEGO CUUSOO sets for production at our discretion."

Which while indicating that queuing projects is possible, does seem to imply a 1 per quarter limit.

[BrickG]

Portal bigger than LoZ? I'm not sure about that. They're both big but Zelda has a history. And the argument that outside of the fans Portal is more recognizable... I think is completely wrong :P.

Anyways LoZ passed yet another one and it'll fail the review yet again. New molds! Maybe if a new game was coming they could coincide and actually be worth the risk to Lego but... I'm thinking a larger ranged "Nintendo" theme would be more realistic (Zelda, Mario, Pokemon, etc). Also not as a Cuusoo. But I'd say that has a 1% chance of happening.

[LiamM32]

I was just horrified when they said that they will no-longer tell us why the projects failed the review. This is something that people are curious about. It is very dissappointing after such a long wait for the 3-season review results. The amount of information that they gave before was quite minimal, so it couldn't give-away too much secret information that they would want to keep. It just makes us feel farther from the company.

Portal bigger than LoZ? I'm not sure about that. They're both big but Zelda has a history. And the argument that outside of the fans Portal is more recognizable... I think is completely wrong :P.

Anyways LoZ passed yet another one and it'll fail the review yet again. New molds! Maybe if a new game was coming they could coincide and actually be worth the risk to Lego but... I'm thinking a larger ranged "Nintendo" theme would be more realistic (Zelda, Mario, Pokemon, etc). Also not as a Cuusoo. But I'd say that has a 1% chance of happening.

I agree with the first part. Of course Legend of Zelda is more recognizable to non-fans. It is also arguably easier to understand for those who aren't familiar with either game franchise.

I would say no to the idea of the "Nintendo" theme. Knex already has the Mario license. Pokemon has too much collectibility of it's own to be mashed with anything else. Even outside of those points; Even Lord of the Rings is separated from the Hobbit more than consumers would expect it to be, so they wouldn't separate Mario and Zelda more.

[Faefrost]

I was just horrified when they said that they will no-longer tell us why the projects failed the review. This is something that people are curious about. It is very dissappointing after such a long wait for the 3-season review results. The amount of information that they gave before was quite minimal, so it couldn't give-away too much secret information that they would want to keep. It just makes us feel farther from the company.

In thinking on that development, I kind of understand why they put that policy in place. They have danced closely with unintentionally dragging a few license holders into this project a few times as it's gone along. The main examples being the MWT, The Sandcrawler, And this reviews Tumbler and in particular the Space Troopers. The one thing that TLG cannot do is make it seem that a third party (that they have a contract with) is the cause of a projects rejection. They are very limited in how they can talk about existing license deals. The license holders certainly don't want fan rage being turned back on them. The Sandcrawler was basically shot down as a result of the LucasArts Star Wars license. The IP holder would feel that the project was already covered under the terms of the existing contract with no third party participation. (same deal with Tumbler) The MWT was rejected because of a non compete clause in the LP contract. The deal with Disney just shut it down. And finally there is some chance that the Space Troopers was turned down at least in part because of c&d notices received from a non contracted third party, Games Workshop. Chances are TLG did not want to get involved in any licensing fight with GW. But they really can't say that publicly without facing a legal challenge.

TLG's best, and really only, option to dealing with some of these complexities is to simply shut up. Just give out generic pass fail reports for the review projects. Don't go into detail about why it passed or failed. Their legal department probably forced this change. It sucks for us, who like to analyze every clue to what they look for. But you can see their concerns.

[Bobskink]

Cool that they will make a set which is not based on an existing theme. I somethimes have the impression adult fans buy everything which features their favorite liscense, no mather what it looks like.

Maybe the exo suit won't sell that great, but it's cool Lego choose for something that goes goes back to it's basics: Using you own imagination, with an air which reminds us of the old space sets.

[Lego Otaku]

So TL;DR you'd have a better chance of getting a pass if it doesn't need licensing, won't violate any copyright, doesn't need new part, new color, or weird connection, and is not too convoluted to assemble.

Time to go back to copying satellites and submarines.

[Blondie-Wan]

So TL;DR you'd have a better chance of getting a pass if it doesn't need licensing, won't violate any copyright, doesn't need new part, new color, or weird connection, and is not too convoluted to assemble.

Time to go back to copying satellites and submarines.

Actually, the stuff I've bolded here probably isn't much of a concern. All proposal models are expected to be revised, and may even be revised quite heavily (as has happened with all four CUUSOO proposals turned into released sets so far), so models with weird connections or convoluted assemblies aren't an issue; if a model passes the other review criteria, TLG's designer(s) will simply find an alternative build, if necessary. And new colors don't appear to have been a problem so far - the existing CUUSOO releases among them feature a number of parts in colors in which they appear nowhere else so far, and there have even been a number of custom, set-specific prints.

The only real parts issues for CUUSOO are actual new parts, requiring new molds (or reissues of older, discontinued elements, which may also require new molds), and even then it might be possible, so long as the parts can be used elsewhere and not just in the CUUSOO project (but yes, a set has a much much better chance of getting through if it just doesn't need new molds at all).

[dvsntt]

I tend to cast my votes for the non-licensed projects. I love the DC-10 model and the blimp.

[Lego Otaku]

Hmmm so no chance of monorail reissue. Supposedly they lost a mold or something, and since monorail wasn't selling well back then I doubt they'd consider a reissue with new molds.

[Faefrost]

Hmmm so no chance of monorail reissue. Supposedly they lost a mold or something, and since monorail wasn't selling well back then I doubt they'd consider a reissue with new molds.

Probably not as CuuSoo. I would think the best hope for a new Monorail would be as a "City" / "Trains" set, ala the Airport Monorail. Hey! Maybe TLG's ongoing partnerships with Disney will prompt them to do one of those? (I can dream).

So TL;DR you'd have a better chance of getting a pass if it doesn't need licensing, won't violate any copyright, doesn't need new part, new color, or weird connection, and is not too convoluted to assemble.

Time to go back to copying satellites and submarines.

You are probably reading a little too much into it. The best piece of advice in any CuuSoo proposal will be "be reasonable in what you are asking for".

- The CuuSoo project at Lego has a limited budget. It does not support new tooling. (To keep this in perspective most "exclusive" D2C sets do not support new exclusive tooling.)

- Keep your projects size and scope limited. Figure a parts budget at 10-12 cents per part, $2-$3 per minifig with a goal to keep the set under $99. (I personally would limit exceptions to the $99 rule to stuff TLG is well established with. Technic, Modular Buildings, Trains, and maybe a non licensed UCS type model. And even then I would try and keep any of those except Technic under $199). Skew your estimates more towards the 12 cents per part if you are expecting to use existing parts in new colors or custom printing.

- Honestly ask yourself if your project or license is not just cool, but is kid friendly, and appropriate for a minimum 6-12 age?

- Give some careful thought to licensed projects. Do the benefits outweigh the negatives? Is the license really needed to accomplish what the goal of your project is? Remember a license increases your chances of getting 10k votes, but it can actually reduce the chances of your project passing review as it adds another layer of complexity.

[BrickG]

For all we know Knex has a non-compete thingy in their contract prohibiting Nintendo from even considering LEGO (despite that Knex hasn't done anything with Zelda).

I'm sure a Zelda set would sell like hotcakes. Not as much as Minecraft but probably at least as much as the Delorean which seems to be selling quite well so far.

But again, the main thing is molds. They'd need several.

The only way they'd do new molds is if they had a whole line of 6-7, probably around the time a new Zelda game came out. But that won't likely happen. And while I'm sure ONE Zelda set would sell well based mostly on nerd nostalgia like with BttF I'm not sure it's got enough modern power (due to the lack of a TV show, Movie or even a new game coming out for years) to support a whole wave. Even though Skyward Sword was an amazing game the Zelda series isn't selling as well as it used to.

Edited November 5, 2013 by BrickG

[The Real Indiana Jones]

Here's a technical Cuusoo question:

Is there any way to get it to open a link to a Flickr slideshow in a new window or a new tab, rather than leaving the Cuusoo page?

They can always come right back to Cuusoo by pressing the back button, but naturally I'd rather have it open in a new window or tab.

Does anyone know how?

Edited November 8, 2013 by The Real Indiana Jones