LEGO® CUUSOO 空想 - Turn your model wishes into reality

[BrickG]

I've gotta wonder if that 1% really influences what will be picked.

I mean, if I got in a review and said "yeah, gimmie that 1% I have bills." would they be like "nope, not going to pick you then.

Honestly I'd want to take the 1% myself. I'm not well off enough to give to charity currently :P.

[MstrOfPppts]

I wont quote (a bit late response) but ...

Some say CUUSOO is not about effort and nice MOCs but idea. And that people voted for the Modular town. NO! I bet more than half of people, especially after AFOL sites advertising the project voted for the fact it was a Western MOC. And that is the whole idea about this project. A modular western house with some nice renewed 1996 figures would be just what people expected. Anyway TLG clearly stated that they will change the idea as they see fit. This was clearly a vote for any nice model with western theme and Lone Ranger should not conflict with it, since the modular could clarly be oriented more to the AFOL comunity and would not be licensed. In my opinion that was the IDEA of the project, since everyone understands that a 2000€ CUUSOO would hardly sell. I too found it a bit odd (regarding the state about effort) that it was actually a MOC for the competition just put on the CUUSOO. That is another thing why I voted more for the theme and idea than the actual model, which I think, the majority of voters did too!

Also TLG should realize there is a big difference about this project, getting the voters slowly - every voter knew why they voted for it - and a stupid mascot project, that has a big fan base a fast spread on Twitter or FB at a particular event and reaches the goal in a week or two. Yeah really good project ... but the mascot fans voted for it, not LEGO fans. And that is a big difference - the majority of the fans will forget they ever voted for anything in a week, let alone buy the actual product in a month - or 10 regarding the long review times ... THAT is a big difference. Really wonder how many minecraft sets were solt even regarding it was quite a nice parts pack. And how many of these were the non LEGO but game fans who just woted for the project?!

Regarding the review process, I understand the license stuff takes ages, but everything was known in a month if not a week. They could just simply say: No to everyone but yes to BTF if we get the license ... and everyone would be at leas sattisfied with their process if not hte results.

Thinking with Portals - another nice project and the creator did a good job for not using too many new molds, but sadly it will likely follow the Zelda route :(

[Faefrost]

I wont quote (a bit late response) but ...

Some say CUUSOO is not about effort and nice MOCs but idea. And that people voted for the Modular town. NO! I bet more than half of people, especially after AFOL sites advertising the project voted for the fact it was a Western MOC. And that is the whole idea about this project. A modular western house with some nice renewed 1996 figures would be just what people expected. Anyway TLG clearly stated that they will change the idea as they see fit. This was clearly a vote for any nice model with western theme and Lone Ranger should not conflict with it, since the modular could clarly be oriented more to the AFOL comunity and would not be licensed. In my opinion that was the IDEA of the project, since everyone understands that a 2000€ CUUSOO would hardly sell. I too found it a bit odd (regarding the state about effort) that it was actually a MOC for the competition just put on the CUUSOO. That is another thing why I voted more for the theme and idea than the actual model, which I think, the majority of voters did too!

It doesn't matter if we think it is far enough from specifics of LR. Even TLG's opinion doesn't matter. It was clearly a Western themed set. If the LR license contract precludes other Western sets, that's it. No further discussion or debate.

The huge problem with the portal project is not just that it needs new molds. But that some of them would require building parts, not simply minifig accessories or hair. That type of mold requires far more precision and uses a much more expensive types of tooling. As in add another zero to the cost.

Edited December 21, 2012 by Faefrost

[def]

Also, you can't discount the adults that think Westerns are boring. Honestly, this isn't a new thing. I'm 27 and I can safely say the vast majority of people my age (that don't live in Texas or something ;p) also don't care about Westerns. Westerns have been practically dead for a long while now. So any western set won't be aiming at adults, they'll be aiming at really, really old adults ;p.

Did someone say Westerns were popular? I didn't.

[BrickG]

Did someone say Westerns were popular? I didn't.

The point is, Lego Cuusoo is still a business. You choose the things that will sell. A modular western town would probably have the LEAST sale potential out of all 4 of those projects by a long shot.

[Another Brick In The Wall]

Sadcrawler - As much as I love this model, there is no way they could make this thing as is. It's just too huge, to detailed and too expensive to ever make into a set. I don't think CuuSoo projects ever really cross over into the mainline themes such as a UCS Star Wars set? Do they? Theres an off chance that they may do something spectacular on the scale of the UCS MF or the Carousel or the Eiffel Tower. But more likely it will be rejected. I don't think Lego will make it's new largest set ever under the CuuSoo banner.

It's clearly stated that Cuusoo will make changes to a project to make it more economically feasible. If wouldn't take much to change the Cuusoo Sandcrawler -- remove the lighting and innards -- it can easily be reduced to a 3K piece project. Other than that:

- no licensing issues

- iconic model

- if it includes minifigs, they're all currently available.

|

The point is, Lego Cuusoo is still a business. You choose the things that will sell. A modular western town would probably have the LEAST sale potential out of all 4 of those projects by a long shot.

You are the one who fails to see the point, I'm afraid: beautifully designed sets will always sell no matter the subject matter.

Puh-leaze. Are you telling me that MWT would be less popular than Eve Online and its 400k worldwide subscribers? You have absolutely no evidence back up your claims apart from an irrational hatred of Westerns.

Edited December 22, 2012 by Another Brick In The Wall

[Faefrost]

It's clearly stated that Cuusoo will make changes to a project to make it more economically feasible. If wouldn't take much to change the Cuusoo Sandcrawler -- remove the lighting and innards -- it can easily be reduced to a 3K piece project. Other than that:

- no licensing issues

- iconic model

- if it includes minifigs, they're all currently available.

I'm not going to say no licensing issues. In the case of any licensed product the licensor has absolute veto rights over sets. One of the hidden dangers with the Sandcrawler may be how CuuSoo works and it's stated reward mechanism. That 1% royalty. Lucasfilm may have an issue with that, as it is a contractual implication that the recipient has some ownership of the design. While some IP holders may be ambivalent to this (Note BTTF. They really can't complain too much as their design is a DeLorean.) Lucasfilms has always been rabid about protecting not just the core IP of Star Wars. But every single element of it. Each ship design etc. (No really the trail of C&D letters and lawyer calls is spectacular). I can easily imagine them taking a stand that the Sandcrawler design is not Lego's to assign royalties to. (Granted this is also a problem that can be worked around with a lump payment for "design services" should the CuuSoo mechanisms permit it.)

Really all I am saying is don't forget there are a lot of hidden nuances that we do not always realize. Especially when dealing with the licensed subjects. It is a very strange world where the rules of normalcy do not always apply. The simple argument of "If they make it we will buy it" Will often not win the day, and at times the obscure business reasons to not make something may be stronger than those to make it. We saw a little bit of this this time. Expect more in the future.

Part of the problem is we, the fans do not really appreciate what CuuSoo is. We assume that our vote is a vote for what projects we wish to see made. It isn't. What it really is is a vote for which projects will get to make a real pitch to Lego in order to sell themselves. That's all. A chance to make the presentation to the big leagues. 10k does not get you on the team. It gets you an invite to try outs.

[Another Brick In The Wall]

I doubt very much from a IP law perspective, the 1% will be interpreted as an ownership right of the design (or otherwise). It will be drafted as a contingency service fee. I'm 100% certain of this.

Edited December 22, 2012 by Another Brick In The Wall

[Sir Walter Maugham]

Any idea how huge the gaming internet community is anno 2012? Video games are becoming as mainstream as books and movies, especially at Lego's main target market - children.

While true that the Portal is quite popular with the internet crowd, the Zelda series transcends that and then some.

Zelda nears Mario's level of recognition. A level that Portal has not reached. (Heh, that works as a pun.)

However, I agree that Portal requires a lot less molds. That might work in it's favor, but I doubt it. Though, I can also see Valve being a lot more willing to do something like this. That might be the big factor that could get this project passed.

Also, I don't know much about Portal's content. (Never played it) But from what I've heard, it might be a tad dark for Lego.

[Faefrost]

I doubt very much from a IP law perspective, the 1% will be interpreted as an ownership right of the design (or otherwise). It will be drafted as a contingency service fee. I'm 100% certain of this.

You're probably right. I am just a tad paranoid after seeing how over the top agressive LF seems to be on this type of subject over in the plastic modeling world.

While true that the Portal is quite popular with the internet crowd, the Zelda series transcends that and then some.

Zelda nears Mario's level of recognition. A level that Portal has not reached. (Heh, that works as a pun.)

However, I agree that Portal requires a lot less molds. That might work in it's favor, but I doubt it. Though, I can also see Valve being a lot more willing to do something like this. That might be the big factor that could get this project passed.

Also, I don't know much about Portal's content. (Never played it) But from what I've heard, it might be a tad dark for Lego.

I think they are both doomed for similar reasons. The Zelda set used more molds, and really only spread them over a few minifigs in a set that would have a production run measured in 10's of thousands. The problem with it was those molds would be very Zelda specific. And that each mold will run at a minimum $50,000 and in many cases far more than that. (Assuming these are just the softer less precise minifig head/hair parts or minifig accesories. Actual part molds are much more expensive), you can kinda see where the math worked against this set.

Portal will be worse. Because some of those new parts would need to be made of ABS, not the more rubbery stuff, and be designed to interconnect with far more precision. While it needs fewer new parts, in at least one or two they would require far more expensive tooling ($200,000 or more?). Now that might not be bad if they were a new element that they could find a good use for in a good number of regular retail production sets going forward. But if they would be portal specific, once again the math looks very bad.

Plus what is the design and validation time involved in creating a new element? I would assume a custom rubbery hairpiece might not be bad, but a real building part has got to be months or more all by itself?

[Chuk1972]

Shame about the Old West Town. Looked like a nice set. I just hope that they produce enough of the BTTF sets so t isn't a feeding fenzy on Ebay.

[BrickG]

It's clearly stated that Cuusoo will make changes to a project to make it more economically feasible. If wouldn't take much to change the Cuusoo Sandcrawler -- remove the lighting and innards -- it can easily be reduced to a 3K piece project. Other than that:

- no licensing issues

- iconic model

- if it includes minifigs, they're all currently available.

|

You are the one who fails to see the point, I'm afraid: beautifully designed sets will always sell no matter the subject matter.

Puh-leaze. Are you telling me that MWT would be less popular than Eve Online and its 400k worldwide subscribers? You have absolutely no evidence back up your claims apart from an irrational hatred of Westerns.

]

If you want data from a scientific study I don't have that. I'm just saying, and you don't have to believe it, MWT would be less popular than those. You don't have to believe me. But in my experience and in my opinion it's just fact.

Westerns are a dying genera regulated to a small corner of media. It used to be literally like half the movies and TV. It was the biggest. Then it shrank. I recently saw a figure that showed the generas and their portion of the entertainment industry (on reddit, don't have the link) and Westerns went from kind to a basically invisible sliver. The amount of western in popular culture with anyone 30 and younger is ridiculously small. You can deny it all you want and demand empirical evidence. It's just true. There's no way a western set would sell as well as a BttF set or a Zelda set. No way, now how. If you think otherwise I think you're a bit out of touch with the modern world and what's what.

The demand just isn't there. I don't mean to insult westerns. My grandfather is basically a cowboy and loves that stuff and has his house decorated with anything Cowboy and Indian. But that's just it. My grandfather. Westerns influence on people is limited to almost entirely old people. This of course, naturally, would limit it's sales as compared to say Ninjas or other things which are on kid's minds 1000x more than Western things. And in the end even Cuusoo is about that, sales.

(I'm too lazy to make a full report with links and all, take it how you want)

[Aanchir]

I wont quote (a bit late response) but ...

Some say CUUSOO is not about effort and nice MOCs but idea. And that people voted for the Modular town. NO! I bet more than half of people, especially after AFOL sites advertising the project voted for the fact it was a Western MOC. And that is the whole idea about this project. A modular western house with some nice renewed 1996 figures would be just what people expected. Anyway TLG clearly stated that they will change the idea as they see fit. This was clearly a vote for any nice model with western theme and Lone Ranger should not conflict with it, since the modular could clarly be oriented more to the AFOL comunity and would not be licensed. In my opinion that was the IDEA of the project, since everyone understands that a 2000€ CUUSOO would hardly sell. I too found it a bit odd (regarding the state about effort) that it was actually a MOC for the competition just put on the CUUSOO. That is another thing why I voted more for the theme and idea than the actual model, which I think, the majority of voters did too!

This was not "clearly a vote for any nice model with a western theme", don't be silly. People who voted this clearly wanted a Western town or town-style building. A simple house would not have been true to the project at all.

"Changing the model as we see fit" essentially means "making sure it uses stable building techniques and is within the price point and building level the supporters expect", not "creating a totally different model vaguely related to the concept". If TLG were to make a totally different type of western building, then how would the creator of the project even deserve his 1% royalties? His project was not the idea of "LEGO set in a western setting", it was the idea of a "modular western town", later revised to just "modular western building" in accordance with LEGO Cuusoo standards. Anything else completely ceases to be the project creator's idea.

Also TLG should realize there is a big difference about this project, getting the voters slowly - every voter knew why they voted for it - and a stupid mascot project, that has a big fan base a fast spread on Twitter or FB at a particular event and reaches the goal in a week or two. Yeah really good project ... but the mascot fans voted for it, not LEGO fans. And that is a big difference - the majority of the fans will forget they ever voted for anything in a week, let alone buy the actual product in a month - or 10 regarding the long review times ... THAT is a big difference. Really wonder how many minecraft sets were solt even regarding it was quite a nice parts pack. And how many of these were the non LEGO but game fans who just woted for the project?!

For the record, the Minecraft set has been in extremely high demand and there has been a shortage of sets in many places as far as I have read. And I'm almost certain a great number of the people buying those sets were Minecraft fans, considering that LEGO Minecraft is an idea that had been floating around the Minecraft community since early in the game's existence, and many of the Minecraft sets

The idea that LEGO fans are more deserving of Cuusoo sets and are more likely to buy the sets than non-LEGO fans who see them as novelties is pure hokum. There are a lot of LEGO sets aimed outside the existing LEGO fanbase, such as the Architecture series (with which LEGO Cuusoo projects released so far have had a lot in common). To these people, LEGO sets like this are more or less expensive souvenirs, and thus they have more or less the same chance of success as any other expensive souvenirs that these people are likely to buy.

Regarding the review process, I understand the license stuff takes ages, but everything was known in a month if not a week. They could just simply say: No to everyone but yes to BTF if we get the license ... and everyone would be at leas sattisfied with their process if not hte results.

That's just an assumption. Who's to say that LEGO didn't spend months analyzing their options for, say, the EVE Online project or the Zelda project? Moreover, there's no reason to think the process is so streamlined that the concepts are shown to one group of TLG's employees and they give it a straight "yes" or "no". Projects have to be analyzed for brand fit, building complexity, cost of new parts, cost and terms of a new license, terms of existing licenses, and probably other factors we don't even know about. This will require consulting more than just one group of designers that knows all the ins and outs of the company. It's likely a huge bureaucratic process. And while obviously that should change (these long wait times are a burden and they stifle interest in Cuusoo), there's no reason to think TLG was merely dawdling for months on end.

Thinking with Portals - another nice project and the creator did a good job for not using too many new molds, but sadly it will likely follow the Zelda route :(

Sadly, you're probably right, though the Thinking with Portals project does have to its advantage that several of its new molds are versatile outside that particular license. Others, though, are not, which may be a deal-breaker. It'll be interesting to watch; I'm not placing any bets on either outcome.

[AndyC]

I doubt very much from a IP law perspective, the 1% will be interpreted as an ownership right of the design (or otherwise). It will be drafted as a contingency service fee. I'm 100% certain of this.

Yeah, ownership wouldn't really come into it at all. However what might is Lucasart's overall strategy for Star Wars licensing over the next year or so. If they don't feel a Sandcrawler model fits into the areas they're pushing currently, then they almost certainly have some scope for vetoing the idea. It's not a coincidence that Star Wars toys at any given time mostly fall into similar categories, even across different manufacturers. It's a similar situation with the MWT and LR licensing, TLG don't necessarily have the ability to simply add it to the LR sets on a whim, the licensor of any major property always has significant say on what is and isn't produced under their license.

[Ardelon]

There's no way a western set would sell as well as a BttF set or a Zelda set. No way, now how. If you think otherwise I think you're a bit out of touch with the modern world and what's what.

That is a pretty bold claim to state without evidence. How much of a share did EVE or Zelda or BttF have on that reddit chart? None of course, since they arent genres per se. And thats part of the point. The Wild West has been a huge part of Western pop culture for over a century, recognizable to people of all ages, through exposure to a wide variety of media. Compared to that, these online games are merely a fad, recognizable to young men with an internet connection or gaming console, and interest in these particular franchises. And BttF, while a popular franchise, has long been off the hype radar. Its basically a car with two dudes, not really instantly recognizable. Yes, boys and young men are the core "consumers" of LEGO, but buyers - parents, grandparents, etc. - are much more likely to buy a universally-recognized Wild West themed set for their offspring over any of these other properties, of which they might have only a hazy knowledge, or none.

My point is, a Wild West set would have a guaranteed demand, thanks to its pop-cultural recognition that crosses political, technological and age boundaries, a recognition the other contenders didnt or dont have. And well see what LR and Django will do to the werstern genre. At the least TLG could have kept it in reserve, for after LR ends.

[Paul Boratko]

I don't know what the sales are today, but going into 2012 Red Dead Redemption(A multi-platform home console video game from Rockstar set entirely in the Old West) Sold 13 million copies since it's release in May 2010... That is pretty impressive...

Edited December 24, 2012 by Paul Boratko

[BrickG]

That is a pretty bold claim to state without evidence. How much of a share did EVE or Zelda or BttF have on that reddit chart? None of course, since they arent genres per se. And thats part of the point. The Wild West has been a huge part of Western pop culture for over a century, recognizable to people of all ages, through exposure to a wide variety of media. Compared to that, these online games are merely a fad, recognizable to young men with an internet connection or gaming console, and interest in these particular franchises. And BttF, while a popular franchise, has long been off the hype radar. Its basically a car with two dudes, not really instantly recognizable. Yes, boys and young men are the core "consumers" of LEGO, but buyers - parents, grandparents, etc. - are much more likely to buy a universally-recognized Wild West themed set for their offspring over any of these other properties, of which they might have only a hazy knowledge, or none.

My point is, a Wild West set would have a guaranteed demand, thanks to its pop-cultural recognition that crosses political, technological and age boundaries, a recognition the other contenders didnt or dont have. And well see what LR and Django will do to the werstern genre. At the least TLG could have kept it in reserve, for after LR ends.

This chart says a lot. Western went from one of the most a sizable influences to next to nothing, significantly smaller than 1%. The amount of influence Westerns have on popular culture outside of old people old enough to remember the good old days of Westerns is almost nothing these days. I believe you're vastly over estimating the influence Westerns have these days as well as extremely underestimating the influence of Back to the Future which is still in the minds of even young people (everyone knowns what BttF is, even little kids).

This is only one graph but it illustrates it well. Westerns are practically dead.

[def]

Wow, BrickG, your heart is really in this. Since the Western is so out at the movies, I guess Lego will have to move into drama and documentaries before finally trying some porn themes

But you're not really proving anything. I bought a town hall this year. Do kids want town halls? Including a mayor and a couple getting married? I sure didn't when I was a kid. Or a pet shop. Or most of the modular sets... Because they aren't aimed at kids. Or the Hayabusa. Kids don't want realistic satellites. They want Star Wars style stuff. Still, LEGO released all that.

If the Western set ever does come out (and keep in mind it was rejected for being a business conflict, and not because it was unfeasible), it won't be selling to kids. It'll be aged 14+. So don't worry about the kids.

I agree Back to the Future will sell loads though. That's got to do with the price point as much as the license. An UCS one wouldn't sell as well.

[Faefrost]

This chart says a lot.

So the takeaway from that chart is Western fans all switched to Porn?

(I'm thinking TLG is not gonna go for the Modular Porn Palace CuuSoo project.)

Edited December 24, 2012 by Faefrost

[Another Brick In The Wall]

Let's see how Django Unchained does vs The Hobbit.

[Meatman]

Let's see how Django Unchained does vs The Hobbit.

I doubt an R-rated violent movie will compare to PG-13 fantasy movie with a huge following.

[Another Brick In The Wall]

Don't doubt Hobbit will do better. But how much better is the question.

[Rufus]

Let's see how Django Unchained does vs The Hobbit.

I doubt an R-rated violent movie will compare to PG-13 fantasy movie with a huge following.

Don't doubt Hobbit will do better. But how much better is the question.

Please stay on topic. Thanks.

[Another Brick In The Wall]

@Rufus- my apologies, man.

Returning on topic, does anybody get the impression that Cuusoo projects will be limited to one per review period? It seems that way given how they went out their way to give some convoluted rejection reasons. M

Looking ahead, the next review it will be Mars SLCR - and then maybe Exo Suit which I'm vaguely interested in. But the future kinda looks bleak, doesn't it?

not sure why they are still continuing to allow votes for the second Zelda project.

Edited December 25, 2012 by Another Brick In The Wall

[Faefrost]

@Rufus- my apologies, man.

Returning on topic, does anybody get the impression that Cuusoo projects will be limited to one per review period? It seems that way given how they went out their way to give some convoluted rejection reasons. M

I'm not sure if we can tell yet. Yes we were left with an impression that these projects ended up going head to head, which is not how we understood it would be. But that may just be observer error. The reasons for rejection, while we may not agree with, do stand up as individual cases. Zelda was rejected because it needed new unique molds with no real reuse. MWT was rejected because they have a new licensed western theme kicking off, that it conflicts with. The Eve ship was the vaguest of the rejections, but I think we can see where that more obscure subject might not have passed the business case once they started examining the numbers. Figure a licensed subject needs a strong fan base of at least several million to convert to reasonable Lego sales. Eve like most MMO's was probably a little shy of that numbers wise.

So I am not sure if we can draw any real conclusions yet.