Fraulein Bloodbrick: The Conclusion

[Brickdoctor]

I was under the impression that NPCs were just characters that were controlled by the GM or computer, as opposed to by a player, and were killable. Or does that not apply to mafia?

[def]

I was under the impression that NPCs were just characters that were controlled by the GM or computer, as opposed to by a player, and were killable. Or does that not apply to mafia?

It does not apply to mafia, at least not EB mafia, which uses much more story telling than is usually done. Often for the sake of narrative, an NPC host is used, and they are not killable.

Bloodbrick had one, the Coming Darkness had one, same as Baritones, the Forest, Belville, etc, etc, and they aren't killable.

At one point in the Forest, I felt I'd found a loophole. I was being railroaded for being framed, and Hinck had foolishly brought Shadows back as a tree stump (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Tree_Stump), Shadows wasn't playing, but he was a player. So I voted for him, and Hinck yanked him out of the game. What a cheat!

Anyway, in that game, there was a magic baker NPC, and I would never have considered voting for them. The main reason being voting for NPCs is not part of mafia.

[Scouty]

I would recommend going on about it. The more you do, the more correct your attempt to vote the NPC out will be

He was a patient, listed with the other patients. He was listed as an NPC. NPC means non-playing character. I can break the term "non-playing character" up into smaller parts if they aren't clear enough for you. Sorry to go on about it, but he was an NPC

And, for the record, Pelly will always exist in our hearts and minds, but I have no intention of putting him into a sequel. His main role in the game was scribe/walrus-worshipper.

Oh, come on . It's absolutely PERFECTLY clear what non-playing character means; now you're just calling me retarded...

Neither am I trying to correct my attempt to vote him out...thank you very much for telling me what I'm doing.

Yes, he's a non-playing character. All that means is that he's not being played by somebody who signed up to participate in this game, same as the other NPCs in this game. By putting him in the player's list, it is being suggested that Pelly has a role, written by you, of greater meaning than the other NPCs. If Pelly was just a patient, then why didn't you call it The Patients instead of The Players? I know what non-playing character means, but what happens when you put Non-Playing under the Player label? It's a contradiction! Like starbursts! Juicy, yet a solid! HOW CAN THAT BE!?!?! My main point is that you unnecessarily separated Pelly from the rest, and in this way it makes one think something may be up. This had not been done in an EB Mafia (that I can recall).

#ArgumentsOverTheInternetAreAlwaysTheMostImportant #CanNeverBeWrongOnTheInternet

[def]

Oh, come on . It's absolutely PERFECTLY clear what non-playing character means; now you're just calling me retarded...

Neither am I trying to correct my attempt to vote him out...thank you very much for telling me what I'm doing.

Yes, he's a non-playing character. All that means is that he's not being played by somebody who signed up to participate in this game, same as the other NPCs in this game. By putting him in the player's list, it is being suggested that Pelly has a role, written by you, of greater meaning than the other NPCs. If Pelly was just a patient, then why didn't you call it The Patients instead of The Players? I know what non-playing character means, but what happens when you put Non-Playing under the Player label? It's a contradiction! Like starbursts! Juicy, yet a solid! HOW CAN THAT BE!?!?! My main point is that you unnecessarily separated Pelly from the rest, and in this way it makes one think something may be up. This had not been done in an EB Mafia (that I can recall).

#ArgumentsOverTheInternetAreAlwaysTheMostImportant #CanNeverBeWrongOnTheInternet

If it had been the patients list instead of the players list, somebody would be bitching about things for a different reason. It looked nice on day one to have all the players' patient profiles together. That's it.

In the first Bloodbrick, I accepted the criticism I felt fair (ie. the photographer role was a bad idea). In this case, I understand that the pistol killer should have been represented better from day one, and admitted as much before any player frustration came up. But the notion that the NPC wasn't NPC enough is something I don't care for. It was discussed enough on the writeboard, then here, and at this point, it's annoying.

I realize you think his NPC status was questionable, I got it. No need to tell me again. I've made up my mind on this small matter. If you want to explain it to the rest of the world in more detail, feel free

[badboytje88]

Def, thanks for letting me play, I really had a blast. I don't think I was ever this pissed for getting killed.

[def]

Def, thanks for letting me play, I really had a blast. I don't think I was ever this pissed for getting killed.

Thanks

[Big Cam]

A number of townies did little more than show up each day. And then they voted with the group, in this case, "I trust Rufus/Pandora."

That was the death of town. If you can tell me how it wasn't, I will fully apologize.

Keep in mind that a good mafia player isn't worried about getting axed early, they are worried about their team. For example, Pie getting offed day one is no big deal. Pie getting offed day one with the watcher ability is. A proper townie keeps their own list by their computer and updates it daily, and works for their team. It's not too much to ask, it really isn't.

Besides Rufus/Pandora, the three townies alive at the end (Big Cam, Roncanator, Masked Builder) and a few more from the days before, were left alive because they were zero threat to scum. Scum can contradict me if they like. That's my interpretation of events. Contrarily, Rick died night one for the same reason the scum targeted him night one of Baritones... Because he actively plays.

It's not about surviving past day one, and thinking so is a mafia problem.

I see it differently a good player does care about the town as a whole, but to say that your a shitty player if you don't spew crap all day and end up alive on the last day is hurtful to me.

I was specifically less vocal because in past games I got axed right away for no reason due to talking.

You can't try to tell me that dying day one gets you a spot on the "great mafia"players list.

Now I know it's not about being the best, but sacrificing yourself on day one doesn't make you a hero for the town, it makes you dead on day one, no chance to get experience and instantly forgotten.

If it's true that I only left alive because I was no that, then so be it, I was a pawn, and you're right.

[def]

I see it differently a good player does care about the town as a whole, but to say that your a shitty player if you don't spew crap all day and end up alive on the last day is hurtful to me.

I was specifically less vocal because in past games I got axed right away for no reason due to talking.

You can't try to tell me that dying day one gets you a spot on the "great mafia"players list.

Now I know it's not about being the best, but sacrificing yourself on day one doesn't make you a hero for the town, it makes you dead on day one, no chance to get experience and instantly forgotten.

If it's true that I only left alive because I was no that, then so be it, I was a pawn, and you're right.

I can understand you don't appreciate that criticism, but don't think I called you a shitty player

I never said anything that implied you should spew anything all day and end up alive to be a good player. I do think that the people scum target night one tends to be someone they want to take out early based on past gameplay. And overall, they are usually better players than the town left at the end, who are generally left behind since they're not making a difference. This game had a few town left behind for that reason, same with Baritones, Bloodbrick I, Belville. I can give you examples from each game if you like. So, town surviving to the end is not necessarily something to be proud of. And it doesn't mean you suck either, it just means you have to work on things.

Basically, you took what I wrote and stretched it to extremes that I didn't mean. Do you really think I meant that sacrificing yourself on day one makes you a hero?

The bottom line for me is that EB players, overall (meaning, not in every case), play a conservative game. Meaning, there is much less in thread discussion, there is a strong herd mentality (six out of seven votes in this game were unanimous, it's very hard to analyze those voting patterns). Usually, forced day one votes result in very scattered votes that are of interest later, but it seems not to be so on EB. As well, people avoid accusations since others might jump on them for it, but that is also very important in the long term game, seeing who accuses who. All of this leads to a somewhat boring game, both to play and to host. As I already wrote somewhere in this thread, if all town were pro-active, scum would have a much harder job hiding. In this game, it was incredibly easy since they had a lot of townies who weren't doing much, aka "surviving".

I'm going to throw out the baseball analogy that I'll have to stop using soon before it gets annoying. In a baseball game, all the players on the field are equally attentive. If some guy on the field was checking his cell phone, the other players would be pissed. For the duration of the game, you should pay attention and participate. In mafia terms, I'm going to say that level of participation would be an hour a day, of reading the thread, PM'ing, and posting. And I don't think EB games get that level of participation. That's my opinion.

I would like you to keep playing Big Cam. I'd like to see you get to the point where you feel you made a difference to your teammates in the game, more than just surviving.

[Big Cam]

Ok, I was a tad upset, and I got a little emotional. You do have good points, I guess whether right or wrong, my goal was to not die right away because if wanted to play longer and get more experience, I may have been self serving, but I want to become good, and I don't see you commending any any of the players killed off early. I've been in 7 or 8 games now, yet I still feel like a noob player.

I guess I've got some learning to do in mafia games, it's just frustrating when you're alone as a townie.

[def]

Ok, I was a tad upset, and I got a little emotional. You do have good points, I guess whether right or wrong, my goal was to not die right away because if wanted to play longer and get more experience, I may have been self serving, but I want to become good, and I don't see you commending any any of the players killed off early. I've been in 7 or 8 games now, yet I still feel like a noob player.

I guess I've got some learning to do in mafia games, it's just frustrating when you're alone as a townie.

Well, it's hard to commend people for dying early, since I don't get to see their game. As well, since people are using PMs, I can't see what they're doing there. Rick was killed for being a good player that Hinck was scared of. He did nothing in thread that deserved killing. After that, for a few nights, people were night killed for having abilities, not for their gameplay.

For town, the standouts for me were the people I said; Rufus/Pandora, Kiel, and Murdock, and I'll give a commendation to Flitwick and Badboy for participation, even if they were on the wrong track. And it doesn't mean other players were bad. There were things that pissed me off, for example Pie's rule break day one was one, but I don't think that means they suck either. Pie's play overall was a lot better than it was in previous games, since he wasn't a wall flower, and I told him as much in the afterlife writeboard.

In Baritones, I talked to Zepher early on about his gameplay and how I appreciated it. In thread, he was writing a lot, and I thought that was ideal town. In this case, he played quieter since he was the SK, and I appreciate that.

[Big Cam]

Well, it's hard to commend people for dying early, since I don't get to see their game. As well, since people are using PMs, I can't see what they're doing there.

This kind of proves my point, or better backs it up.

But still I understand I need practice.

[def]

This kind of proves my point, or better backs it up.

Every other thing I wrote doesn't back it up, so I'd suggest taking it in as a whole

[RileyC]

Thanks for the game Def! The concept and change in gameplay and mechanics was really quite refreshing and an interesting idea for sure.

So yes I was very quiet in this game. I was quiet for two reasons,

1. 1I wanted to try a new game strategy by lying low. I now know that although it gets you to the end, it doesn't really help the town or yourself in the long run. I did this because I want to branch out how I play mafia games and what different kinds of strategies yield different results. I had one main ally (Kiel) throughout the game which allowed me to have a connection to others through him and have support if I was ever on the receiving end of something. That way Kiel, who is a very high poster, would look town as he tries to defend me. So then no one would really accuse him of anything so he could carry out his good game. I have very high hopes for you Kiel! You are already a very good player and will continue to get better.
   
2. 2 I really honestly didn't have much time to post in the day thread. I was reading everything and making my own judgements based on the info given, and I was PMing my allies regularly. But I did not feel it was necessary to post in the day thread because most of what I was going to say, had already been said, and most of the time I had no real questions about the proceedings or questions to ask anyone. So in honesty it may not have been the best idea for me to sign up for this game, but it was Bloodbrick II and I loved the first one!
   

I've been in 7 or 8 games now, yet I still feel like a noob player.

I feel the exact same way. I feel like I haven't been able to progress to that higher level that everyone seems to be playing at, even though I feel like I am doing the most that I can do to learn more. I feel like maybe I should take a break from mafias for a little while because I have had a great run with the games I have been in and I can just sit back and relax while having a read through a mafia game that I am not in for once.

Thanks once again for the spot Def! Your games are always really top notch, well though out and have a great story and great pictures!

[Big Cam]

Every other thing I wrote doesn't back it up, so I'd suggest taking it in as a whole

I still you.