As above,have we seen the last of them for a few years again do ye think?doesnt look like we're getting any sets with pneumatics in 2012 ;(

Seeing sets coming with LA,s again next year makes me sad ;(

As above,have we seen the last of them for a few years again do ye think?doesnt look like we're getting any sets with pneumatics in 2012 ;(

Seeing sets coming with LA,s again next year makes me sad ;(

Well, the Unimog has some new pneumatic elements, so I think there is still hope for more pneumatic sets in the future. I don't know if we'll have a pneumatic set in 2012, but I'd be confident in saying we will have more in the future.

I'm fairly confident that we'll see pneumatics again pretty soon if not in 2012. They're just too awesome

Already lamenting that we might not be getting pneumatic sets? I'm pretty sure we will see some again in the future. After all, there were no sets this year with full-size LAs. I'm kinda glad we'll be seeing some LAs again, actually.

I am sure we will get some more models with pneumatics in 2012/2013. They just made a new pneumatic pump instead of using the smaller old one, I am sure they will use that on more than 1 set.

More sets with a compressor would be sweet :)

Two years in a row now with pneumatics, and we don't know what the second wave of 2012 brings. You seem desperate davidmull?

Two years in a row now with pneumatics, and we don't know what the second wave of 2012 brings. You seem desperate davidmull?

I'm alway desperate,for me 3 flagships a year would be great,after the introduction to pneumatics again I'm starting to hate LAs now ;(

I'm alway desperate,for me 3 flagships a year would be great,after the introduction to pneumatics again I'm starting to hate LAs now ;(

And i'm starting to think you're my best friend

I'm alway desperate,for me 3 flagships a year would be great,after the introduction to pneumatics again I'm starting to hate LAs now ;(

I'm a newbie. So please be gentle. What's so great about pneumatics compared to LAs? I have 8258 and 8110, so I have some experience with both. From this limited experience it seems to me that LAs are easier to control. However, 8258 cannot lift a whole lot. Is this because of the use of LAs. Do pneumatics provide more power?

Just to be clear. I like both implementations and got the 8110 specifically for the pneumatics. But I don't really understand the trade-offs.

I'm a newbie. So please be gentle. What's so great about pneumatics compared to LAs? I have 8258 and 8110, so I have some experience with both. From this limited experience it seems to me that LAs are easier to control. However, 8258 cannot lift a whole lot. Is this because of the use of LAs. Do pneumatics provide more power?

Just to be clear. I like both implementations and got the 8110 specifically for the pneumatics. But I don't really understand the trade-offs.

Pneumatics are just better in most ways,yes they have more power and they are 100% more realistic,la,s are good for persision work but the mechanical noise they make is not very life like.

I used to like la,s but just not any more since I got 8110,iv lots of sets with la,s including 8258 and 8043 but there mainly display models,there's more satisfaction using pneumatics and getting the practise on some great real life movements.

I remember my first pneumatic set was 8862 backhoe back in 1989.

Also iv just ordered a new misb 8455 backhoe which is probably the best pneumatic set out there,wasn't cheap tho ;(

Edited October 24, 201113 yr by davidmull

There are certain trade offs:

Pneumatic cylinders are smaller than LA's

1 LA actually has more power than 1 pneumatic cylinder( i did tests to prove it)

LA's can be stopped reliably anywhere in the range of the cylinder where pneumatics are virtually impossible to stop in the middle

pneumatic cylinders' extending arm can be compressed while LA's arms are locked in place

LA's require electricity to power while pneumatics only requires a pump

i am sure there are more but these are what i thought of.

tim

Just search though my posts and you'll see where I stand on this debate, but for a brief (and as unbiased as I can be) summary, Pneumatics are more powerful 90% of the time in real world applications. The reason for this is beacuse most of the power from the motor is lost in the drive train to an LA, leaving not much left for the LA itself. The need for drive trains also make it sometimes needlessly difficult to place where you want them (unless yopu connect a motor dirctly to them, which is just too easy and boring!). Pneumatics are also far more life like than LAs and require skill to operate properly which is again, more life like than LAs that have a more kiddies toy like feel. Pneumatics also look and sound better with their hoses and the cool pffft sounds they make. However LAs do have some good points. Once you put an LA into a postion it cannot easily be moved unless you turn the input shaft and also produce very precise movements. Personally I have never found these plus points to make them worth chosing over pneumatics which can also be operated very precisely with a bit of skill. If however I choose to make a CNC machine I will probably use LAs. Other than that, I hate LAs in any situation where they are used to represent hydraulics.

Edited October 24, 201113 yr by allanp

I'm a newbie. So please be gentle. What's so great about pneumatics compared to LAs? I have 8258 and 8110, so I have some experience with both. From this limited experience it seems to me that LAs are easier to control. However, 8258 cannot lift a whole lot. Is this because of the use of LAs. Do pneumatics provide more power?

There are a whole series of older threads which debate the relative merits of these two systems endlessly. There are certainly trade-offs and reasons either might be chosen for any particular application. Personally, I dislike the label "linear actuator" and I'm not sure who started calling them that. Both systems use linear actuators. One is pneumatic and the other is mechanical, so "mechanical actuator" or "screw actuator" would be a much better name.

The primary advantage of pneumatic actuators is that they much more closely represent the real workings of hydraulic systems in heavy equipment. For this reason, pneumatics tend to be preferred by builders who are going for maximum accuracy. A second advantage of pneumatics is that it is very easy to locate an actuator at a great distance from a power source with minimal loss of power.

The primary advantage of mechanical actuators is that they can be accurately positioned and will retain that position under load and over time.

There is no general rule that will tell you which kind are capable of producing "more power". It totally depends on the pressure, the size, and the efficiency of the system. In LEGO, the load capability of a pneumatic actuator is limited by the pressure at which the internal seal begins to leak or the tubing pops off. This tends to be about 4 bar. The load capability of the mechanical actuator is limited by the internal clutch. Not surprisingly, LEGO designed them to be pretty close.

I design and analyze both hydraulic and mechanical actuators in real life, and both have their advantages. Heavy equipment is almost entirely hydraulic, whereas mechanical actuators are more likely in robotics or precision equipment.

Thanks, David, Allan, Tim and Blakbird, for the very helpful comparison. I'll have to practice more with 8110 on controlling the pneumatics.

There are pros and cons to both.

I like the precision that LAs give, but pneumatics are easier to build with, unless your are building something that is remote controled. Downside to pneumatics is that it is more difficult to place them in remote control projects.

My backhoe I built uses LAs, and it works fairly well, but had I known what a pain it would be to route all the driveshafts, I probably would have waited to accumulate more pneumatic parts to build a pneumatic backhoe. I'll build another backhoe with pneumatics someday, but I need to buy another 16 or so cylinders first. I did like the accuracy with the LAs though, and even though it was a bit of a pain to route the driveshafts, it was still a fun challenge. My next project is going to have pneumatics.

Also, I find the longer stroke of the LA easier to build with than the shorter pneumatic cylinders. I'm with allanp on this, LEGO needs to make longer pneumatic cylinders.

Just my thoughts on that.

Edited October 24, 201113 yr by dhc6twinotter

Maybe we can make a protest that Lego make longer pneumatics lol I wonder why Lego brought out la,s?

Maybe we can make a protest that Lego make longer pneumatics lol I wonder why Lego brought out la,s?

I second that!

tim

The reasons for LEGO to change to LA's were as follows:

- LA's are cheaper to make and QA than pneumatics

- Their MTBF is much higher than with pneumatics

- Pneumatic cables turn brittle and break after prolonged exposure to the sun

I guess, however, that they are bringing them back mostly because of popular demand. I sent them an e-mail asking why there weren't more pneumatic sets in feb 2010 and they gave me the reasons I just listed, but now we have the unimog and possibly more on the way.

- Sok.

Edited October 25, 201113 yr by Sokratesz

Hydraulic controls in real construction machines are very accurate. You can not actually compare it to lego pneumatic, even than princible of pneumatic is close to hydraulic system. LA:s are more realistic from drivers point of wiew.

The reasons for LEGO to change to LA's were as follows:

- LA's are cheaper to make and QA than pneumatics

- Sok.

Really? That's kind of surprising, considering the construction doesn't seem all that different, and the LA's have rotating parts.

They do both have advantages and disadvantages. LA's are more accurate, and stronger, but pneumatics are easier to integrate, and they look cooler with all those pipes

My next project: to FINALLY build the legendary pneumatic back hoe now that I have enough parts (2x8110, 2x8049, 8285, and 8421)

I guess the strength of LA's depends on the motor used, pneumatics have it easier there cause even with a 'slow' compressor you can just build up pressure slowly.

Pneumatics can also be much faster than LA's when used with multiple air tanks. (I have 7. Yay me :D)

- Sok.

This years robot had LA's instead of pneumatics (last years) and to be honest I HATE THE CLUTCH NOISE! and the JAMS.

For things that don't need much power, I will use LA's because there precision is very good. However for pure power you can't beat pneumatic pumps running 40psi.

You try moving a heavy 4ft long beam with LA's, it failed badly!

Steam 2010 (67) by burf2000, on Flickr

Steam 2010 (67) by burf2000, on Flickr

haha wow look at the bend on that axle!!!! What project did u need a 4 ft long beam for?

tim

haha wow look at the bend on that axle!!!! What project did u need a 4 ft long beam for?

tim

My avatar picture may give you some hints