Guilds of Historica Introduction/General Discussion Thread

[kabel]

Once again, around 1500 would be perfect. Common people still live in a medieval world (in fact many things we percieve as medieval culture, actually belong there - clothing, music, knight's armor etc.) but ships and some other small aspects of technology have developed a tiny bit further into a stage where no pirate builder has been yet. Cannons and fire arms start to become used, but they are not very good yet. Normal castles are still build. The Hanseatic league expreciences a last peak, your typcial half timbered houses sees its greatest epoch and besides, we're alreaday using the Marriot helmets which are perfect for the whole colonization/new world time frame. I'd say as long as we don't reach further than lets say 1550 we're still far form the pirate realm, where Derfel set the lowest edge of the time frame with his galleons.

Personally, I also feel we haven't really been much to Varlyria yet, so this is where most of my challenge VI takes place.

[soccerkid6]

I definitely don't want the time frame GoH to go much more than 50 years into the future.

I think the official story for Challenge VI will probably have quite a bit to do with what we do next.

As to enemies for GoH, currently we have Revolword and the Corrupted Hand that are both fair game to slaughter, I'm guessing most stories will have some sort of conflict still going

[Kayne]

I guess when I was posting my thoughts, I was going more for a fantasy type setting that just happens to have a couple of advancements. Gunpowder was just a thought, doesn't need to be. But I was not thinking about Pirate theme or changing the medieval feel we have to GoH. I just thought that maybe by changing up a few things we might be able to rekindle interest in new builders and get GoH rolling hot and heavy again. I'm in no matter what though, this is too much fun!

[Captain BeerBeard]

@kai Your idea of some members becoming a new enemy sounds really interesting.

I made some mocs with conflict before and have purposely left them open ended. Is it really that hard to have conflict? Sigfigs can easily be left out if that's what worries people.

In the last moc i posted, I continued a story from a Kaliphlin member that could have easily had a tragic end but left it open ended. The story can continue. Conflict can easily be achieved with some imagination, cooperation and respect for other people's characters.

[soccerkid6]

@Beerbeard: Excellent point, your pretzel shop build is a very good example

My favorite part of GoH is interacting with the rest of the members, so more intertwining stories is what I'm hoping to do after Challenge VI

[Brickington]

After CH 6, I was planning to have my character travel all around Hstorica and with everyone else.

[gedren_y]

With what CBB said, I did builds with some Mpya Stedor characters (as well as two Mitgardians and a fake Berigoran) and hopefully DaMaximus will have Wahl and Lohp in one of his next builds. Our characters doing more traveling should be the focus immediately post Chal. 6, since most will have gone far from their homes for the Revolword War. With all this travel, new things should be discovered. GOH should enter into a wider age of enlightenment. Something like Europe in it's early exploration age, before gunpowder was widely used.

I don't think we should fast forward the timeline in GOH. We Kaliphlin have a university, so maybe higher learning has spread, and therefore some technology has developed. It need not be weapons technology. Remember, we still have magic and fantasy characters, so the use of gunpowder may be limited to excavations and quarries. There should be a period of rebuilding after the Revolword War, anyway. "From its ashes, the Pheonix rises again."

[SkaForHire]

I think we just shouldn't go too far into the late Renaissance. GEAR Co has had cannons for many years also, they are very useful at sea, but too heavy to lug around the desert. As Gedren says, we also have magic, and a good mage always trumps an army full of cannons. (one fireball to powder storage, and Kablam!) Also, I remember somewhere someone saying that the ability to mine the ingredients for gunpowder was rare in Historica. This could be another reason why cannons don't readily take off.

As for conflict, if we want to fight one another, then perhaps we need a system? I posted a game mechanic when they were building LCC that was pretty much thrown out because people did not like the strategy game feel... but it allowed for nobles to take land from others in a game setting that included MOC - offs. I can dig it up and post it here to see what you guys think.

Also, if we "found" a colonizable continent, this could start a new "crusade" for colonization. There could be bad guys there or indigenous peoples (depending on what side of history you want to come down on, treat them as you may) and eventually the race for claiming new guild territory might end up in wars between the guilds, or even more likely, an ambitious few claiming their own kingdoms.

In essence - nothing solves the boredom of stable borders like a good land rush.

OR.... We could just open a portal to Rowia (LCC) and invade them.

[kabel]

Also, if we "found" a colonizable continent, this could start a new "crusade" for colonization. There could be bad guys there or indigenous peoples (depending on what side of history you want to come down on, treat them as you may) and eventually the race for claiming new guild territory might end up in wars between the guilds, or even more likely, an ambitious few claiming their own kingdoms.

I really like this idea! So mini challenges at home (maybe the one or the other inner guild revolution) and the rush for the choicest land on a new continent!

[Ecclesiastes]

A lot of good ideas I like except going forward in time. I have too many stories for my characters and don't want to start over with new ones. But there could be some sort of small industrial revolution.

[SkaForHire]

I really like this idea! So mini challenges at home (maybe the one or the other inner guild revolution) and the rush for the choicest land on a new continent!

All the while, the governments back home try to keep order and peace amongst the citizens, but in the colonies, it is the Wild Wild West. (not literally of course, figuratively)

[Rogue Angel]

I too would be against a jump forward in time. I could see a new continent or guilds, and I think that warfare would open up some options. I think that an actual warfare mechanic would be counter to the freebuild atmosphere (even though I love structured mechanics for board games and CCG/LCGs). I would prefer to see a general war between established sides (Victor's forces vs the Guilds or Nocturnus vs Mitgardia for example) which would be set and progress in chapters similar to how the Challenge storyline has progressed.

[Captain BeerBeard]

Why do we even need a timeline in a fantasy world?

[Gideon]

I think a colonization storyline would be a great candidate for a new set of challenges with great potential to explore new cultures and wilderness, but I wouldn't want to abandon Historica anytime soon...there's just too much of this diverse continent to put into ABS plastic!

In any case, we should wait and see what the official story after Challenge VI will be. Even though I'm not going to have time to make an entry (heading to Ireland for a while now with no access to my bricks), I really like the idea of either a continuation of the war in some form (like SKs entry) and/or rebuilding Historica. The idea of some kind of low-medium tech industrial revolution is also interesting, what comes to mind for me is somethink like the manufactories of the late medieval/early modern times - think water wheels, blast furnaces, larger scale textile manufacturing - but no steam engines or anything like that. The Mpya Stedor golden window company was a great start!

All of this could easily give raise to a wide range of challenges/mini challenges.

I like the fact that the future of Historica is being discussed, that alone makes me believe more in a great future for this project!

[Infernum]

That idea of colonization is great! Who knows what enemies what emerge in this new land?

[PenPlays]

That's funny, I've been planning to jump ahead in time (eventually) in Dawn of Ages as the Guilds progress. Remember people, this isn't our Earth based on our time line. The ages of castles and knights could last for centuries if we wanted!

If we go "colonizing" might I suggest it being one of DaMaximus' Guilds (I don't think the four Guilds have much of a presence there, yet).

[Niku]

So many great ideas lately, I plan when challenge six ends to continue with storylines for some of the surviving characters on my builds for the next mocs.

Also maybe a moc relating with some past generations just to give some background to the new adventures on the period that is established at the end.

And yes, as many, if not all, I will continue with GoH building I found that mocing is something I really enjoy, and all thanks to this initiative, just lately I dont have the enough time I wish I could spare to build but I hope to complete just in time.

Greetings.

[kabel]

Why do we even need a timeline in a fantasy world?

because in the beginning we needed sort of an agreement as to what our characters would be able to do and how they would live. (architecture, gunpowder etc.). However, especially Kaliphlin has really drifted far away from this time frame. And with the introduction of magic the time frame became even more obsolete.

Still, I always had the time frame in mind and so did others, simply as a point of reference for historic accuracy because personally I'm not really a big fan of magic I'm going more for authenticity. Maybe that's why my stuff never looks that spectacular.

[Captain BeerBeard]

@kabel Magic is a huge part of Historica but if us magic users get crazy with it, what is left for non-users? Obedience? It just goes back to imagination and having respect for other people's storytelling. Historica has a guild filled with monsters. How does a time period work with Nocturnus? It really doesn't! We are in a fantasy world.

[Kayne]

because in the beginning we needed sort of an agreement as to what our characters would be able to do and how they would live. (architecture, gunpowder etc.). However, especially Kaliphlin has really drifted far away from this time frame. And with the introduction of magic the time frame became even more obsolete.

Still, I always had the time frame in mind and so did others, simply as a point of reference for historic accuracy because personally I'm not really a big fan of magic I'm going more for authenticity. Maybe that's why my stuff never looks that spectacular.

I guess I don't get where you're going here. I know I didn't start until the 2nd challenge here, but it seemed like magic was already in GoH, plus Victor is a mage and he's 'official'. I also don't get how Kaliphlin has strayed from that time frame either.

[Rogue Angel]

Historica has a guild filled with monsters. How does a time period work with Nocturnus? It really doesn't! We are in a fantasy world.

As EVERYONE knows BB, minotaurs were first created in the 12th century while Saurians (whatever the reptile things are called) evolved somewhere around 2000 BC, but didn't start wearing clothing and collecting material goods until about the 1700s.

[gedren_y]

The truth is the Kaliphlin haven't strayed from the timeframe. The Kaliphlin is loosely based on the Middle Eastern desert and moutain peoples. During the late Roman and early Medieval periods, they had advancements in science and mathematics. The number system used by much of the world is originally Arabic. They had a concept of zero long before central and western Europeans, and that concept is neccessary for the higher orders of mathematics. There is even evidence that they had the alkaline battery in ancient times.

[Maxim I]

Okay, a lot of replying to do here

I would love to see some more mocs showing our sigfigs travels to the other guilds. Pushing ourselves to build out of our comfort zone and interact more with eachother. Let say that I travel to Kaliphlin to meet DM. I build a moc showing how I come to Mpya Stedor. DM can then build a moc with my sigfig in Mpya Stedor...

Excellent idea!

For myself, I already planned to let my wife die, so I can marry (after a funeral) the sister of someone important from another Guild

Just crazy exhausted talk....but, what if we re-invented GoH after the Revolword saga. Placed it one hundred years later. We could have certain major political, geographical and techonlogical(not space, but maybe limited gunpowder) advancements that have altered the landscape and lifestyle in Historica. New characters, new towns, etc...but still our Historica as the foundation and history of the world.

I really like the idea of advancing in time, i'd say 50 years is fine though. That would then be around 1500 and we'd have the whole discovery/colonization period ahead of us. I think that should also provide for great building oportunities without reaching too far in the pirate realm. In fact, the ship I'm currently building is rather 1490 than 1450 and I'd hate to take it apart after challenge VI ends. At same time I think dGs ideas also sound really appealing. However, what we need most is a story line that carries us through lets say another two years or so

we allready have canons and powder, just look at Sirens of Titans! im gonna start using them too after Ch6. alot of mocs allready feature guns (i think one had a lazer? thats a little far fetched though...) but GOH will continue, Ill gladly join whatevers next, but im staying here, I wouldn't mind helping out with organisation either if needed.

I am not really a big fan of the time jump. I still have a lot of plans for my current characters

But we can have a small technological change. Let's say we found plans of some undiscovered technology in the room of Victor Revolword.

But then again, I am against cannons and gunpowder in Historica. Only a few members made catapults and ballista's, so we still have a lot of possibilities here.

I agree with Ska that we shouldn't take GoH too far from the high medieval/high fantasy air it has now. But that doesn't rule out more advanced shipbuilding or limited gunpowder use in my view, I'm just afraid it will limit the castle building techniques. For me as a bit of a fortification nerd, knowing that the enemy would be well supplied with reliable cannons would dampen my desire to build beautiful high thin stone walls and instead make me want to build ugly low earthen bastions...

I totally agree. The walls of Mpya Stedor for example are resistent against catapults and ballista's, not against cannons...

When are cannons actually useful? During ship battles and crowded battle fields, right? Laying seige to castles and cities too, I'm guessing. It would lead to more sophisticated battle tactics but we don't have any battles which makes GoH pretty boring. That's really GoH's biggest fault.

I agree, the problem is war between the guilds would be very complicated, since who's to decide who wins? We could maybe have some sort of system, if someone wanted a war they could work it out with the other person (basically an interactive series of MOCs), and then they could decide who should win/what the consequences would be.

And something occurred to me while I was writing that - wouldn't it be pretty cool if a group of say 10 from any of the guild (or a combination thereof) sort of took over and became the new enemy? Hmm... and I don't even have the excuse of being tired...

my idea was (worked out in the end of my CH6-entry):

I become emperor of the 8 free Guilds (indeed free guilds, so I only got military and diplomatic) power. Mpya Stedor becomes the Imperial Capital. 7 Guilds because I am already keeper of the alliance between Amenor, Drakrydar, Ximus and Atlarka.

After a few months, some Historica members (I am thinking about CBB) revolt together, forming an alliance. The others can join the Imperial Army and fight together with me against the rebels.

As everyone has a city or territory, we can set up a game like Risk where the rebels or the Imperial Army can take over territories. This is Moc based (with a deadline for example)

If the Imperial army wins the war, the rebels will be punished and will be banned to another continent and those who fought with me will gain their territories.

If the rebels win, well then I am screwed and they may choose what to do.

Together with this story, there are some mini-challenges (like expanding the Imperial Capital, an attack on Amenor, so everybody can send some warriors to there (shipbuilding challenge) & some mocs to show interaction between the 4 new Guilds)

With what CBB said, I did builds with some Mpya Stedor characters (as well as two Mitgardians and a fake Berigoran) and hopefully DaMaximus will have Wahl and Lohp in one of his next builds. Our characters doing more traveling should be the focus immediately post Chal. 6, since most will have gone far from their homes for the Revolword War. With all this travel, new things should be discovered. GOH should enter into a wider age of enlightenment. Something like Europe in it's early exploration age, before gunpowder was widely used.

I don't think we should fast forward the timeline in GOH. We Kaliphlin have a university, so maybe higher learning has spread, and therefore some technology has developed. It need not be weapons technology. Remember, we still have magic and fantasy characters, so the use of gunpowder may be limited to excavations and quarries. There should be a period of rebuilding after the Revolword War, anyway. "From its ashes, the Pheonix rises again."

Agreed!

And don't worry about your 2 characters

Also, if we "found" a colonizable continent, this could start a new "crusade" for colonization. There could be bad guys there or indigenous peoples (depending on what side of history you want to come down on, treat them as you may) and eventually the race for claiming new guild territory might end up in wars between the guilds, or even more likely, an ambitious few claiming their own kingdoms.

In essence - nothing solves the boredom of stable borders like a good land rush.

OR.... We could just open a portal to Rowia (LCC) and invade them.

If we go "colonizing" might I suggest it being one of DaMaximus' Guilds (I don't think the four Guilds have much of a presence there, yet).

I like the idea of colonising!!

But keep your hands of my tradepartners in the East!! The four Guilds have indeed no presence there atm, but those 4 guilds do have a lot of influence in Mpya Stedor. For example 2/3 of my army comes from there

There is enough space in the West and South to colonise

The truth is the Kaliphlin haven't strayed from the timeframe. The Kaliphlin is loosely based on the Middle Eastern desert and moutain peoples. During the late Roman and early Medieval periods, they had advancements in science and mathematics. The number system used by much of the world is originally Arabic. They had a concept of zero long before central and western Europeans, and that concept is neccessary for the higher orders of mathematics. There is even evidence that they had the alkaline battery in ancient times.

:thumbup:

[Mike S]

My thoughts on GoH chapter 2:

1. Call it GoH: The age of exploration- There are hundreds of islands off Historica's coast as well as a few areas on the mainland that have not been explored. I would suggest a Guild sanctioned "wildlife preserve" where members cannot build cities/towns but instead build ancient ruins/landscapes. Our cities need to be built up better. In fact I feel we might have too many towns as quite a few have not even been MOCed.

2. No member vs member combat- I think that in the end this would destroy GoH. Instead GoH needs a more ballanced guild leader controlled villain, one that does not have the armageddon magic powers of Revolword (in fact I dont think he/she should have any magic power whatsoever) but is cunning and has a host of minions at his/her disposal. Members should be forced to work together in order to keep in control of their cities/towns. thinking something like Cardinal Richlieu character.

3. Destructable technology/magic should be toned down- this is a fantasy land and cannons should do less damage than catapults/ballistas/magic and muskets should be far less accurate than crossbows. I have no problem with cannons and muskets being shown in MOCs although I myself will not be employing them. Main problem I have is magic. Revolword's world trashing elemental magic is far too powerful and I honestly think it kind of hurt Historica's story and should never be reintroduced.

4. Advanced technology should be acceptable as long as it is approved by the guild leaders- this is a fantasy world so anything is possible. However I think that technology should be closely overseen by the guild leaders as it can have world changing affects. For example a magic orb powered locomotive may technically be within reason but such a device would really change members perspectives of Historica. I suggest a technology permit system where members must request a permit if they wish to invent advance technology.

[Gideon]

I think you are right at the point there Masa!

1. There is so much to explore within the world of Historica, the first chapter has barely scratched the surface. The idea of ancient ruins is also appealing, I think the entries in challence 5 were the most interesting and at least Kaliphlin for sure is full of hidden mysteries in the sparsely populated wastelands!

2. I totally agree that there should be no member vs member combat, as I think it would ruin a part of the idea with GoH. Having a well balanced cunning and sinister enemy which we have in the Hand of Corruption is great, and if people want to invent a system to fight them in some kind of wargaming way it could be really nice but I don't think a forced point system or anything like that is a good idea since it would dampen the build freedom.

3. Both destructive technology and really destructive magic should be limited. The elemental menace is a part of the GoH canon now, but I think it should be phased out in favor of more "normal" fantasy aspects to warfare, promoting us to build beautiful medieval-ish castles and armies. I don't think a development towards mage armies or gunpowder based forces is a good idea, even though some limited magic with clear drawbacks and limitations would be well within a good fantasy setting.

4. I like the idea of the technology level beeing moderated by the guild leaders. While I am a fan of the open nature of Historica where it seems ok to come up with a lot of lore as long as you make MOCs of it, what has disturbed me most is when people post MOCs with deviating levels of technology which conflict with how "things are usually done in Historica". Probably an occupational hazard from being an engineer