Guilds of Historica Introduction/General Discussion Thread

[kabel]

I would vote for Ecclesiastes.

Ecclesiastes has just become leader of the Mitgardia guild and he does an excellent job at that!

[soccerkid6]

@kabel: I believe Masa was just saying he liked how SoT handed the leadership of Mitgardia to Ecc, I also think SoT's decision was very beneficial to Mitgardia.

I rather agree with Masa on the guild rivalry topic. Some small scale stuff like BB and some of the Kaliphlin members were doing is one thing but whole guild VS guild might not work the best.

As to the new land exploration idea, it sounds fun and could possibly stir up some more builds. As of now I still have tons ideas for Mitgardia that I would probably focus on before building in a new land.

Edited March 18, 2013 by soccerkid6

[Derfel Cadarn]

Well it was merely a suggestion, once challenge 6 is over you guys can then all decide on what you want to do. It's really all down to you. The only reason we had Guild leaders to start with was to help run the challenges and story arc. Now that is coming to an end, I think guild leaders will be stepping down and going on to work on new projects. So I'm sure you will all elect new leaders or maybe choose not to have a leader at all. Sirens stepped down, ZCerberus covered for me and I think Nocturnus rebelled against their leader a while back lol.

[ZCerberus]

I think maybe challenge 6 is a good opportunity to tie the current state of things to that which you want to see in the future. Maybe your story kicks off a new arc for people follow.

I am planning to add that to my story at least.

[kabel]

aye, that's how we want to deal with it! So the winners determines the future of GoH, I can totally live with that. However, I'd definetely like if the original guild leaders stayed around as at least normal citizens.

[ZCerberus]

Well Si is certainly going to be busy, but I'll still be around.

I'm not saying the story should be set by the winner per se, but I think it could help set a new direction.

[de Gothia]

I think we are discussing two questions here but we deal with it like it´s one...

1. How do we want GoH to be after the last challenge is over?

2. How can we recruit new members to GoH?

The first question is discussed over and over again. Some want to keep the clock ticking and some want to be were we are right now. That´s why I still think we should have a poll for it and let´s the democracy decide for us.

The second question is a lot harder. I think that the decline of members after ch 2 is because most of the people don´t want to be in a project for to long. I´m still amazed that so many of us "survied" all the challenges... I don´t think that a new era in GoH will make more members come to us. Maybe a few but I don´t think that they will come beacuse we have something new and exciting, they will just come as Gideon, Brickington and other members have come the last months.

For me, I have a ton´s of ideas for my Benoic, Albion and Avalonia. So for me it would be great if we could stay in this era we are right now. If some of us want´s to explore new guilds, lands, make boats etc it´s totally fine with me. DM have been making new guilds all the time so that wouldn´t be a mayor problem. The problem I see, is that if we make GoH something between castle and pirate.

Edited March 18, 2013 by de Gothia

[kabel]

I think you have some very valid points here. Personally I was always thinking more about question two than one, I have to admit. So while we can solve question 1 rather easily, question 2 is much harder to be answered. For myself I can say, that what kept me building here is this sense of community and mutual appreciation that is much stronger here than in the pirates forum, where I started out mocing some 3,5 years ago. I also think GoH really helped me to get down to serious mocing for good and expand my building reportoire.

However, If we can't manage to attract new members I fear that sooner or later GoH is going to become a really slow endeavour. It's already slowed down considerably in recent months, and I don't really like that. I want to keep going with this project.

As for my suggestions: who's to say that handing out charters would place us between caslte and pirates? With the advent of Henry the Navigator (1394-1460) exploring and colonizing actually started around 1450, the time we set ourselves in the beginning. It really is an awesome time and that's why I think we could also incorporate some elements of it while staying active in the home guild at the same time.

Edited March 18, 2013 by kabel

[Mike S]

As for my suggestions: who's to say that handing out charters would place us between caslte and pirates? With the advent of Henry the Navigator (1394-1460) exploring and colonizing actually started around 1450, the time we set ourselves in the beginning. It really is an awesome time and that's why I think we could also incorporate some elements of it while staying active in the home guild at the same time.

I like the charter idea. I think what some people are worried is that redcoats and bluecoats will begin to showing up marching down city streets brandishing muskets and hauling cannons I think the question isnt about bringing pirates into GoH but what era of pirates. And for the record, I'm on the side not wanting to see redcoats and bluecoats marching down the streets of Historica's cities. Edit: However I also don't want to limit my ship design to caravels and this being a fantasy world I dont see why it would be such a threat for me to build a galleon looking ship for Historica if it doesnt house cannons.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Masa of Kaliphlin

[Derfel Cadarn]

I will still be building my story, so I will be around still. However, Artorious Rex has new adventures to go on, so once challenge 6 is over and he has overseen the end of the threat to Historica, he will step down and go in search of new quests. He is still young and a soldier at heart, rather then a ruler. I've got lots of new stories coming up for him! So that means Avalonia will need to elect a new ruler!

[kabel]

I'm on the side not wanting to see redcoats and bluecoats marching down the streets of Historica's cities. Edit: However I also don't want to limit my ship design to caravels and this being a fantasy world I dont see why it would be such a threat for me to build a galleon looking ship for Historica if it doesnt house cannons.

I don't want red vs. blue in this part of the forum either. I just want to make GoH more interesting and give new members the incentive not to stop building after one or two builds. And, the more I read about the Henry the Navigator, the more some parts of the Portugese exploration start to become very appealing to me.

[Mike S]

I don't want red vs. blue in this part of the forum either. I just want to make GoH more interesting and give new members the incentive not to stop building after one or two builds. And, the more I read about the Henry the Navigator, the more some parts of the Portugese exploration start to become very appealing to me.

And if your like me, I really don't feel like posting MOCs anywhere but GoH. I even pretty much abandoned my LEGO sci-fi plans so that I can devote more time to GoH.

[kabel]

yep, I know what you're talking about. Can't seem to be able to finish any town or pirate mocs anymore. It's all been boiling down towards GoH ...

[de Gothia]

I am totally fine with this ship thing going on and that we could builds mocs to earn ship points and then set sails into new continents. The thing I´m against is that I don´t want this to be the pirate GoH with pirates, islanders and redcoats all over the place. GoH is meant to be a castle thing.

But now when all the cards have been showed, it does not look like anyone want´s to go inte the pirate era but stay here in the castle era but to be able to build ships?

[Mike S]

I am totally fine with this ship thing going on and that we could builds mocs to earn ship points and then set sails into new continents. The thing I´m against is that I don´t want this to be the pirate GoH with pirates, islanders and redcoats all over the place. GoH is meant to be a castle thing.

But now when all the cards have been showed, it does not look like anyone want´s to go inte the pirate era but stay here in the castle era but to be able to build ships?

I think so. But I have kind of a vision of historica being more fantasy castles than historical castles. I spent a day looking at photos of historical castles and my opinion of them was that most of them were just plain ugly. I really am kind of tired of war and destruction as we haven't hardly even started the building of Historica. There is so much more that needs to be MOCed. I think Historica can be a world where we can let our imagination free and build castles, cities and ships that are just plain stunning without having to worry (for the most part ) about structural integrity or engineering feasability. And if a member wants to take a break from building castles/and city environments, let them go on an expedition and discover lost ruins and civilizations. I think it is time for the Golden Age of Historica.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Masa of Kaliphlin

[Brickington]

I came to GoH because when I joined EB I wanted to be apart of it. And once I got a decent camera I joined. I can really see Lord Brickington taking Rex's place, but that isn't up to me.

[Maxim I]

So Nocturnus AND Avalonia is looking for a new ruler?

Lord Damaximus yells: "Diplomats & Embassadors, come to my office right now!!"

As I already said earlier, you got my vote on the whole explorers thing. Like dG said, I (and also some other members) made stories about foreign contintents, so everyone can do that (the world is really big).

I still have a lot of work to do for my city, but it is also fun to take a break and build something else for Historica (like a ship or your sigfig on a mission (see my stories about the Alleenridders)).

I don't think interguild wars are a really good idea, but in my opinion, war between a few members would not be that a big deal. There are a lot of different things in a war that can be worked out (like getting resources, raiding, battling, tactic chambers, ...). This is also a nice break for those who are working on a city or a story project. But like I said, no complete Guilds in war with eachother, just a few members (even from different Guilds) who exceeded the point of trashtalking and send some troops to each other

And I forgot who said it, but I like the idea of Emperor Damaximus _{now I think about it, it was probably me who proposed it}

[SkaForHire]

I really don't like or agree with the last twelve posts. Can we please keep computer games out of GoH?

HAHA... I tend to agree, I think colonization would be a good theme (as I suggested many parts of it). But, I feel that we may be setting a lot of rules here... for a project with very little rules to begin with.

On the charter issue - there are a few more types of charters, as the Spanish and Dutch charters were much different than the English.... but, I don't think this should be a (game) setting mechanic, but more of a storyline. I don't think we should tell new members they can't participate in the next phase of GoH without doing some things first. That's my two cents about that, but I did enjoy the different ideas.

Just been having a look back over the recent comments in this thread, some interesting ideas mentioned.

On the topic of Historic accuracy, I always saw Historica as a medieval fantasy realm. Avalonia was based on the classic Arthurian fantasy medieval England style, so there was no way it could have been historically accurate. The real Arthur lived somewhere between 400AD to 500AD and there were no huge towered castles. It was all wooden huts and wooden feasting halls. Knights didnt even exist back then. So I went with the fantasy version we all know rather than historic. It's more fun!

I know some of you like the idea of gunpowder and other explosives and firearms but going too far down that route could soon turn Historica into something else. For those who love the Pirate era and theme, don't worry, it's time will come. I love the Pirate theme and can't wait to get started on a GOH style Pirate version. However, that's in the future.

Good to see a GL chime in. Also, I am afraid a Pirates themed GoH style project might completely destroy this one. Then again, a few months after GoH started, I offered to help run one over in the pirates forum (pirates had always been my theme until GoH), which got a cool (as in tepid) response. There is a chance this may not be wanted over there.

Well Si is certainly going to be busy, but I'll still be around.

I'm not saying the story should be set by the winner per se, but I think it could help set a new direction.

ZC, I think you would make an excellent grand Marshall of the GoH project. We don't always agree at times, but you have dedicated a lot of time to this project, and I could definitely see the next round of "leaders" working under you.

Although, I thought somewhere in the final challenge it said that we would vote on the best story as a group, and that would become GoH cannon?

[ZCerberus]

Although, I thought somewhere in the final challenge it said that we would vote on the best story as a group, and that would become GoH cannon?

It will!

I am suggesting that not only can the Revolword saga come to some conclusion, but maybe suggest where each guild or all the guilds should go next. Maybe it would be a good way to garner votes for your story and help set a direction.

[Legonardo]

Hey is Ch6 winner decided by vote or not? and was there any word on what the prize was?

So that means Avalonia will need to elect a new ruler!

\

..... Im still here everyone (although Z deserves this place)

[kabel]

Also, if we "found" a colonizable continent, this could start a new "crusade" for colonization. There could be bad guys there or indigenous peoples (depending on what side of history you want to come down on, treat them as you may) and eventually the race for claiming new guild territory might end up in wars between the guilds, or even more likely, an ambitious few claiming their own kingdoms.

In essence - nothing solves the boredom of stable borders like a good land rush.

@ska: Just a little reminder what you said about colonization yourself. I think you're sort of contridacting yourself here. I pretty up much came up with the charter idea after reading your comment about a land rush and your ideas about portugese exploration.

I really wonder why people keep telling that they don't want pirates, when I never said anything pirates myself. Also, as you mention different sort of charters, that is perfeclty fine for GoH. Maybe the guilds could hand out different charters as well. But, If we were to leave things here without the one or the other rule we end up with 25 different continents, which I don't think makes a lot of sense.

PS: damn, wasted my 1000th post on discussing where I should be presenting a moc

Edited March 19, 2013 by kabel

[SkaForHire]

@ska: Just a little reminer what you said about colonization yourself. I think you're sort of contridacting yourself here. I pretty came up with the charter idea after reading your comment about a land rush and your ideas about portugese exploration. I really wonder why people keep telling that they don't want pirates, when I never said anything pirates myself. Also, as you mention different sort of charters, that is perfeclty fine for GoH. Maybe the guilds could hand out different charters as well. But, I we were to leave things here without the one or the other rule we end up with 25 different continents, which I don't think makes a lot of sense.

PS: damn, wasted my 1000th post on discussing where I should be presenting a moc

Kabel (congrats on hitting 1000th) I don't think I contradicted myself (I assume you meant my last post) I just thought that we shouldn't limit new people. I fully agree that the GLs running the next chapter need to set out one or two lands for colonization, to keep everyone from conquering their own. I was also referring to the charters thing as a historical perspective, not really saying we need to do any of them. Also, as far as I am concerned, we already have pirates in our world, just not golden age pirates. My character was one of them until very recently! I think landrush is the most interesting way to take this, as long as the homelands gets action too!

Also to ZC, sorry, I think I misread your post that I quoted. That makes more sense.

[SkaForHire]

This will be a lengthy post. Ye have been warned. I also know that not everyone’s first language is English, so please let me know if you need clarification.

I thought I would put down a plan of action. Clearly, we are throwing a ton of ideas around here, but if we are going to make a firm decision what is happening next, we probably should have a plan. It seems that the majority of the population still left here wants to have another “chapter” to Historica, so I think a plan is in order.

Below, I give a light version of a GoH constitution. This isn’t meant as an unchangeable document, but it is a firm plan to guide the GoH process for years to come. Since we are planning on continuing, I think providing a set of rules (not necessarily for building, but for the organization of everything) for transitions and changes might make it easier than having this conversation every 1.5 years. I think GoH could go indefinitely, and keep infusing new ideas. My plan on how this will happen is below.

Obviously some are going to have a completely different view of things. I encourage them to write a rival document and also post it. If you generally agree with this plan, but want to amend it a little, we can all debate further details. If you want to endorse the plan, then please say you endorse it. I think we would need at least 70% of the active membership to endorse a plan of action before putting it into effect.

The rough draft of the Skaforhire endorsed Plan

Reasons for a restructuring:

I. Chaos. With the Guild Leaders moving on, and many people still wanting to produce a collective castle setting, order must be brought about.

II. Many new ideas have been suggested to the setting. This document incorporates many members’ ideas.

What is needed for the proposed restructuring to take effect:

I. Approval of current GLs and Moderators.

II. Permission from Eurobricks to run sponsored contests with prizes, and members willing to pool together for prizes.

State of GoH and Concerns

I. Current Guild Leaders have set up a system, but have many other projects to tend to also.

II. Membership and activity is perceived as dwindling

III. Different build styles / topics emerging.

IV. The current plotline is wrapping up without a clear future.

Addressing those concerns:

I. Current Guild Leaders should be appreciated for the time they have logged in the project. Therefore, if they want to stay GL, then they should be able to. If they stay on, then a Vice-leader will be chosen by the GL or the membership of that guild. The vice-leader will help run the guild, splitting the duties.

A)Additionally, the membership of the guild will vote on their judge (from willing volunteers.) who will act as judge for an entire story arc (6 major challenges). This judge can be the guild leader or the vice-leader (VL), or someone completely different from the guild.

B) After every story arc, the GL or VL should have the option to step down, and a new leader will be voted on by the membership.

C)If the current Guild Leaders wish to step down, a new leader and a new vice leader to help that Guild Leader should be decided on by the membership.

D)The guild leader does not have to represent an absolute ruler in Historica, they could act as purely an administrator for guild activities.

E) The institution of the Grand Marshal or GM of Historica into the project. This member should be a moderator, or someone with Eurobricks power. This person should keep us held to the constitution of the project, and oversee the major functions when there has been a lapse in management from GLs and VLs. They could also appoint volunteer regular members to the “Plot Directorate.” (Honestly, ZCs current function comes to mind when describing this position. He does a terrific job keeping us on task and making sure things run smoothly. I would also nominate him as first GM if he wants it.)

F) The creation of a Plot Directorate. This would consist of willing GLs, VLs, the GM (if they want) and volunteer members OKed by the GM. This team would be made up of 3-7 members at a time. Each story arc, these members would take the helm directing the plot and the challenges. Judges, GLs, of VLs, don’t have to serve on the plot committee, as long as there is a representative of the guild on the committee. Those on the Directorate should rotate every 6 challenges to prevent any one person from becoming burnt out.

For Book 2, the new plot directorate will begin working on ideas with an estimated launch date of September 1^st, 2013.

II. In order to keep from limiting new participation, we keep the rules and restrictions simple. Despite new lands, we allow those new members to continue to build on what we, the older participants, have built.

A)Two out of the six challenges per story arc (or book) must be smaller challenges. (32x32 base challenges) so that those without large collections do not feel intimidated. To offset the smaller challenges , one of the challenges per story arc should be large or unlimited.

B) Prizes should be given for every main challenge. This has shown to stir up the most interest in a challenge.

III. The big debate between magic, technology, fantasy, and historical will always rage on in Historica, because it is all of these. If a member pushes things “too far” then the other members can choose not to accept the build or story, but really no major limitations should be put on a builder besides one. Please keep major destructive technology and magic to a minimum. (IE: All powerful world destroying wizards, large cannons with accurate destructive fire, etc...) It is up to the builder, or the builders to come up with an explanation for why so little of these destructive forces exist.

IV. Changing story Arcs. This would begin at the end of the current challenge six, and happen every 6 major challenges.

A) No time shift forward for the first change of story arcs (henceforth books, the original 6 challenges being “Historica: Book 1”). After the second book, the membership will vote for a time shift or not. (70% vote?).

B) The addition of new lands. The plot directorate has the power to come up with new lands. This may be brought into the story through a contest or for plot. For Book 2, a new continent, somewhat close by and reachable by average sailing ship will be “discovered.” The plot directorate will etch out the details here, rather than holding a contest.

C) No 5^th joinable guild will be created for Book 2, but the membership can vote to open up a new “joinable” guild every 3 challenges. MikeyB, as guildleader of Valyrio, will automatically have a position on the Plot Directorate if he wishes until the guild becomes a full, joinable guild.

D) The story arc will be completed (no cliffhangers) at the end of each 6 challenges. This allows for a progression and change of pace each year and a half (the ideal time period for a whole “Book”)

V. Player Conflict

A) Player conflict amongst each other is allowed from this point on.

B) If any conflict cannot be settled “out of character” by the Eurobricks members, then any member involved can call upon the GLs to make a decision (or perhaps the plot directorate) as long as the judges are not involved in the conflict.

C) If within the same guild, then this should be unstructured and agreed upon by the members participating. This could be MOC building duels, game style rules, member voting contests, etc...

D) If the conflict is inter-guild then the plot directorate or a neutral guild can decide the outcome of the conflict if contested.

E) Anyone who wishes to be left out of a conflict has that right. Plot directed non player characters could help “secure” their holdings from an unwanted aggressor. No one should ever be forced into a fight – this protects those who desire to build peacetime builds and other non-conflict related MOCs.

VI. Forum Member Etiquette.

A) despite builder on builder conflict, everyone should be on their best behavior as members of Eurobricks – personal attacks against a member of Eurobricks will not be tolerated. In – game trashtalk, jesting, and jokes are fine, but please be aware that sometimes things are taken the wrong way.

B) We declare that this is a joint project of Eurobricks members, all who build in the spirit of the Guilds of Historica are welcome, and that no one should feel as an outcast here.

Edited March 19, 2013 by SkaForHire

[kabel]

there is a lot of good stuff in what you write! Can't really disagree with anything of that!

[Maxim I]

Yup, i have to agree with kabel again, excellent job ska!