Brickington Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 ..... Im still here everyone (although Z deserves this place) I am also here. But Z does deserve it, perhaps he deserves more. ZC, I think you would make an excellent grand Marshall of the GoH project. We don't always agree at times, but you have dedicated a lot of time to this project, and I could definitely see the next round of "leaders" working under you. I agree! He has put so much time into this. Perhaps he could become the new Emperor of Historica?
de Gothia Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 Wow Ska, that´s one long post! I agree with the most but have to read the post some more before I can say my final word.. One thing that caught my eye was this: C) No 5th joinable guild will be created for Book 2, but the membership can vote to open up a new “joinable” guild every 3 challenges. MikeyB, as guildleader of Valyrio, will automatically have a position on the Plot Directorate if he wishes until the guild becomes a full, joinable guild. Do you mean that a new guild can open after three challenges? I think our biggest concern right now are the limited access to members and to divide them into even more Guilds feels like a long shot. Soon every member will have their own guild..? So I think that five guilds is more than enough...
Kai NRG Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 I agree with dG on that point, other than that the constitution looks great, I'll look over it again I think, though there is (naturally) a lot of "Book II" specific info in there. You might want to break it up, so that you've got the main constitution - w/o specific reference to the next chapter, and then the application to the next chapter (that way you don't have to sift through as much one we've gotten to, say, the third chapter),
robuko Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 Count kabel, congratulations! Ska, your code of conduct looks more or less reasonable to me. Thankyou for making the effort. The PGTC's focus on high return projects at reasonable risk will no doubt ensure its success in any time period, although I would prefer to deepen the backstories of my current cast list. My stance on current debates - happy to see more ships although it's not something I care deeply about. I won't be looking for conflicts therefore I don't really care about the gunpowder or magic debate - we can close down magic if we defeat Victor, if we want to. I will tend to fantasy over realism in both build and story. No view on colonisation although I think an "age of discovery" of ancient ruins would be fun. If we want more membership, is it a zero-sum game with LCC? Are the guild leaders in touch with LCC guilds? Oh, and I would be an advocate of some smaller challenges, like 8x8 or 16x16, for the time or brick constrained.
Mike S Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 (edited) Do you mean that a new guild can open after three challenges? I think our biggest concern right now are the limited access to members and to divide them into even more Guilds feels like a long shot. Soon every member will have their own guild..? So I think that five guilds is more than enough... I agree that 5 guilds is more than enough. Perhaps the Guild system can be reinvented so that it isn't based on location. This could also help balance the guilds out I think. Keep a maximum of 4 guilds (we could always reduce to 3 until we have built up an active member base again) This would also immediately allow members to move to Varlyrio right away without having to divide the guilds into 5. Perhaps the guilds can instead be based on business enterprizes... @Skaforhire- Other than the 5 guilds I think everything you proposed is agreeable and kudos for you taking the time to try to organize things. Edited March 19, 2013 by Masa of Kaliphlin
ZCerberus Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 I have a few thoughts here. 1. I like the idea of making a democratic Guild structure to open it up a bit, but contests still need to run through an EB staff member. We have powers to get prizes and hopefully be held accountable if the prizes don't go out. 2. I know prizes are a motivating aspect to builds, but how would you guys feel about custom brick-built trophies like Si did for Sci-fi month? Would you build for those too? 3. You guys are supposed to get GoH tags for being involved in the project. I will try to get back on getting those finalized again. 4. We do need some structure, but I think we also need to shake things up and get people building in Nocturnus and also ramp up the interguild battling. 5. This might sound surprising, but I think some of the best build months and times come when we are all free-building. In other words, when we have no contests at all going on. Maybe after challenge 6 wraps we do need to take at least a little time to just free build and see what comes out. 6. I know many of the guild leaders will be transitioning to a new forum to do something similar to guilds but different. I am going to have some role in that, but not as large. I plan to still be the history regulator, but I also have an IRL thing in June that is going to cut into my EB time. We'll see what kind of time I can commit in the summer.
Kayne Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 -Z - I can't speak for the others, but I don't build for prizes. I like the idea of the custom orcs and such that have gone out, and the custom trophies that SI did are very cool. That being said, I would keep building for GoH without any of that incentive. Basically, I think what I am saying is that I am no help in this matter, as I don't care! I think the whole project has been a blast and helped my building skills, and that is what I am here for....fun! As for the Guild structure, when I post my Challenge 6 story, it will explain some of my thoughts here, but I kind of want to branch out of Kaliphlin and try some stuff in the other guilds. Notably Nocturnus. I love Kaliphlin and my guildmates are the best around, but truth be told, I am a little burned out on the landscape and have been in a darker mood for a while. I also probably need a new character as will be explained in my Challenge entry. -Kabel - Congrats on the 1,000 posts! -Ska - That constitution looks great, there was a lot of thought put into that and I think we all appreciate the help in that aspect. My fear with this project is it becoming too constrictive. It seems like most everyone is on board that we enjoy our freedom to do what we have to this point, but some of the charters, etc feel like they could become to limiting in this setting. As for the challenges, I think some of the smaller challenges around 32x32 max worked well for us. It feels like we had far more participation in the beginning with some of those smaller challenges. While I know that many things probably worked in the initial allure of GoH, such as claiming land and building up one's own city or territory, I think that some of those initial challenges of the watchtower and embassy helped to keep some people interested over here. We may want to explore similar ideas in the beginning here to draw some more people in once again.
ZCerberus Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 Right Kayne, I agree opening up to let people build whatever they want might be a key. Though we could probably do that and have some challenges as well. Perhaps we are too restrictive in challenge requirements and we could rework the "idea" of challenges to open it up a bit more.
Mike S Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 I have a few thoughts here. 2. I know prizes are a motivating aspect to builds, but how would you guys feel about custom brick-built trophies like Si did for Sci-fi month? Would you build for those too? Prizes are cool but probably not a motivating factor for me and I think I would rather have a custom tag than a brick built trophy unless the trophy had some rare parts I could scavenge. Right Kayne, I agree opening up to let people build whatever they want might be a key. Though we could probably do that and have some challenges as well. Perhaps we are too restrictive in challenge requirements and we could rework the "idea" of challenges to open it up a bit more. I agree that the challenges should be opened up a bit more. Even with the time extension, I fear I will not be able to get 3 builds done for challenge 6. This challenge really made it hard on members with time constraints.
soccerkid6 Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 Hard to keep up with this thread which is a good thing @Ska: I think your constitution looks pretty good, though I agree with the others who said we don't really need anymore than five guilds. @Z: I am quite fond of brickbuilt trophies Tags or even titles (like we've been doing for minichallenges) are good incentives too. And I'm glad to hear we will still be getting tags for our participation in GoH. I also agree that some freebuild time before the next major challenges would be nice
Kai NRG Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 Honestly prizes are a huge motivation for me, partly because of my limited collection - a forty dollar set can make a huge difference in what I am able to build. I'm all for trophies as well though. I do think we should be careful not to throw too many rules out there. For those of us that are already quite familiar with GoH it might not be a problem, but we certainly don't want to discourage any newcomers, one of the things I found most discouraging about LCC was several topics full of rules. As it is we just have one or two, plus the guild topics, which doesn't feel quite so overwhelming. I agree with whoever it was that said some of the best builds here have been free-builds, I do agree that we need some sort of a story arc but lets make sure there's still plenty of free-building incentive!
Brickington Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 Amen, Z! I don't build for prizes though and even if I did win anything on EB, I wouldn't take the prize. I do think, if I may say so myself, that you deserve to take ISC's place. I am also happy that I get a tag for being apart of GoH. But as I said, I don't build for prizes or other things (although a tag wouldn't hurt ).
gedren_y Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 I build mostly fantasy/historical, with a little sideline into sci-fi, so I'm not going anywhere. Much of Ska's ideas I can get behind. To shore up Nocturnus, we should allow people to change guild alleagance. Anyone who does, would be leaving behind their 'gold' with their old guild, and anything beyond that point would go to their new guild. I think that Varlyrio should be opened up for joining, but it can wait. That should be the limit for the amount of joinable guilds. Any new lands, if we go that route, get claimed by existing guilds by way of MOCs showing sig characters exploring. We could have inter-guild land grab competition challenges, with voting, to determine what guild gets what land. I have a story line for the Nestlands Clans of the Armored Eagle Goddess about their Goddess' return that I want to persue, but can see where that may step on plenty of toes. I guess I could leave that in the hands of whoever takes over the reigns of GoH. I don't want that kind of responsibility. If this gets persued, the Goddess could be a major common enemy for some challenge later on. ZC seems like a good fit as a new leader in some capacity. Any prizes have to be approved by EB staff, which for GoH is predominately ISC, but if he steps down we will need someone with that kind of EB authority. I hope to one day offer handmade custom capes for a contest, but am right now still trying to get my paterns finalized. I see GoH much like the Forgotten Realms books. Some things we have, others we don't. We have black oil, but not the manufacturing base for refining it into gasoline, nor the internal combustion engine. Ships we already have, but the effective fire-arms we shouldn't. We shouldn't exclude piracy, but it should be kept to a minimum.
Gideon Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 That is a really good document Ska! Even though of course there might be some details to discuss I think it is good if we have a base for the future of GoH. Then of course it can be deviated from and corrected if those deviations improve GoH Some assorted thoughts from a newbie: - Small challenges (max 32 x 32, but also smaller) to encourage people with limited time and/or bricks to participate - Guild changing should be possible - Building in other guild's settings should be possible (for example I would like to build some "green" MOCs even if I'm still in Kaliphlin), and give points to your "home guild" - Maybe non-geographical guilds as mentioned would be an idea? - Not too many guilds, 4-5 is enough with the number of active people
Mike S Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 You know I was just thinking that it seems we already have everything that we need to attract new members. All we need to do is get building inspirational MOCs.
soccerkid6 Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 snip - Building in other guild's settings should be possible (for example I would like to build some "green" MOCs even if I'm still in Kaliphlin), and give points to your "home guild" snip You can do this already and several have, dG and Ecc for two You just have to have a story explaining why the scene is relevant to your guild
Infernum Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 Wow! I love that constitution Ska! Great job! I would support it! The idea of small "wars" between members is great! @ZC: Custom Trophies are more than OK with me!
Mike S Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 I wonder what percent of Historica has actually been MOCed.... So much more here to be discovered without having to create more land.
Kai NRG Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 A couple things, for one, Gideon, yes it's perfectly fine to MOC in a different guild (and there are some verdant areas in Kaliphlin), and also: ...I come with tidings that I have stepped down as History Moderator, I hope in time it will grant more time to again build in Historica... I quote from the Nocturnus thread. As far as him stepping down from Guild Leadership, he suggested a topple-the-lord challenge, (which almost makes me wish I were nocturnian...) In part I agree with MK, there's still a lot of Historica proper to be MOCed, let's not rush too fast to open up more land!
de Gothia Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 That map is great!! Did you made it Masa?! Any chance I could get the link?
SkaForHire Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 Wow Ska, that´s one long post! I agree with the most but have to read the post some more before I can say my final word.. One thing that caught my eye was this: C) No 5th joinable guild will be created for Book 2, but the membership can vote to open up a new “joinable” guild every 3 challenges. MikeyB, as guildleader of Valyrio, will automatically have a position on the Plot Directorate if he wishes until the guild becomes a full, joinable guild. Do you mean that a new guild can open after three challenges? I think our biggest concern right now are the limited access to members and to divide them into even more Guilds feels like a long shot. Soon every member will have their own guild..? So I think that five guilds is more than enough... Just to clarify, I am not in support of more than 5 guilds at a time, I just wanted to open it up for scheduled debate, so those who want more can have their say every 9 months or so. I actually think that for administration, we should open Valyrio and join the administration portion to Nocturnus, and if Valyrio does not attract as many newcomers, we also score them together. So in essence, still only have four guilds, but one is ran as two guilds. ---- So now that people have read it, I would like to say some things. I tried really hard not to add any building rules, almost all of this is administration and a preview towards the second set of challenges. I think there should be as little restriction as possible. Mainly, the conflict rules were there to keep civility in times when members disagree. I think everything else is pretty much administrative. The idea behind administration rules was to keep leaders from getting burnt out, spreading the duties amongst the community of 40 or so active members, and to help keep it all fresh. Also, I agree with Z that some of the best builds come in down time. I don't often build for the contests. I have only built for the first 2! I personally like story better. However, not everyone else does. This is why I put the part about the 6 challenge arc that included some sort of prize. Also, I put in the beginning that we would need permission to run these if we do not have any EB big whigs on board. But that was easy to skip for the meat of the post -- I do understand that EB has specific rules about contests, and we would need to make sure we had proper permissions before doing any further challenges. Still, I think without challenges, the project is less likely to bring in newcomers, and prizes help award some of the old times. Still, I would support a later "Book 2" support date - mid October? Nov 1st? I think that was my main points addressed by members so far -- Again, not trying to add building rules or setting rules (there is that one in there section III about allowing everyone to build in their own style) just trying to hash out leadership and governance so that we don't continue the "what is the future" panic that has gone on for the last 6 months. :)
Kai NRG Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 (edited) That map is great!! Did you made it Masa?! Any chance I could get the link? http://i1259.photobu...zps3b0c1e38.jpg At least that would be the link to the image itself. Edit: Pretty cool signature you got there Masa! And I love the subtle hint to the right guild... Edited March 19, 2013 by Kai NRG
Mike S Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 (edited) That map is great!! Did you made it Masa?! Any chance I could get the link? I just edited and compiled NiceMarmot's map of Historica with MikeyB's map of Varlyrio. I have the full sized version here. EDIT: changed the link from photobucket to flickr Edited March 19, 2013 by Masa of Kaliphlin
de Gothia Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 Thanks Masa! Looks great! Mind if I borrow it? Have an idea for it! ;)
Mike S Posted March 19, 2013 Posted March 19, 2013 Thanks Masa! Looks great! Mind if I borrow it? Have an idea for it! ;) Of course, borrow away! Edit: Pretty cool signature you got there Masa! And I love the subtle hint to the right guild... Thanks! lol I really didn't even mean for the subtle hint....
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