kabel Posted May 31, 2013 Posted May 31, 2013 thanks Z for this constructive take on my criticsm. It's kinda hard to be patient sometimes, hope you don't mind ...
ZCerberus Posted May 31, 2013 Posted May 31, 2013 thanks Z for this constructive take on my criticsm. It's kinda hard to be patient sometimes, hope you don't mind ... I admit my immediate reaction was to be upset, but I quickly realized a lot of people have invested time and resources here and this should be everyone's world and I admit I didn't really state that I was using some of the suggestions from you guys to change some of what everyone seemed to perceive as the weakpoints. At the same time I know the rigors of trying to run this, and turning the project over a) without recognizing the hard work of the guild leaders and b) to people who might burn out and leave the world in limbo means there has to be someone with some with EB authority and some experience to bridge the gap. I guess I felt like I was in a good spot to use the collective suggestion from all of you to get an idea rolling with the leaders. ISC and Si have been very encouraging and I believe they support the move. Though maybe it was never fully "official" I have been more or less running Avalonia since challenge 3 so I have lots of interaction with the original crew and the regulator powers to get done SOME of what we need to do to have a successful project. The other two people would be instrumental who have given some input are the defacto leader of Mitgardia, Mr. Ecclesiastes, and our favorite indexer and History Regulator rogueang. I think they are both "in" on some level to help manage a next chapter if we launch one. I think if this idea does move forward to other guilds it would be fun to invite key players (like those who played in all 6 of the Book 1 challenges) in the various guilds to help shape the story for their guild's challenges as well.
Mike S Posted May 31, 2013 Posted May 31, 2013 Was there ever a reply for when the vote for the Chapter 1's conclusion is going to take place? For some reason I was thinking it will be July after the free builds score cutoff but I don't remember where I got that from.
Dr Rod Posted May 31, 2013 Posted May 31, 2013 With any luck, the Drow will soon be eradicated and we won't have to worry about them anymore. No chance
Captain BeerBeard Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 (edited) So what I get from all of this is that GoH is not ours like promised. It's the Zcerberus show. We have no say unless we agree with Zcerberus. That's what GoH is boiling down to? Why is GoH about one person? Why don't all of us make our own rules and decisions? Like promised? Edited June 1, 2013 by Captain BeerBeard
Legofin2012 Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 Kind of new, and thought I'd ask what is the "Drow"?
Captain Nemo Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 So what I get from all of this is that GoH is not ours like promised. It's the Zcerberus show. We have no say unless we agree with Zcerberus. That's what GoH is boiling down to? Why is GoH about one person? Why don't all of us make our own rules and decisions? Like promised? Say what? Well what path do you want Historica to take post chapter 1? It's better to point out a problem and a solution then just point out problems. Kind of new, and thought I'd ask what is the "Drow"? Basically they are exiled dark elves that live in Nocturnus; they were often used as a "common" enemy of the other guilds in stories and such. (But beyond that I don't know much about them either!)
Rogue Angel Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 So what I get from all of this is that GoH is not ours like promised. It's the Zcerberus show. We have no say unless we agree with Zcerberus. That's what GoH is boiling down to? Why is GoH about one person? Why don't all of us make our own rules and decisions? Like promised? What you SHOULD get from this is that ZCereberus has taken it upon himself to do all the legwork while the Guild leaders are busy, like getting more people involved in GoH, Getting Tags for Historicans and getting us Frontpaged! Z has been doing a tremendous amount of work to keep GoH going, and we are in a transition period between the first set of Challenges and the next set of Challenges. WE are in discussions as to how to proceed with the next chapter of GoH, and Z has been kind enough to provide insight to everyone into our discussions about what would be good for GoH and what people are wanting to see. We are also in transition between Guild Leaders, which takes some time. We are trying to set things up so more HIstoricans can be involved with the future of GoH, as well as keep GoH interesting and appealing to the members. We want to make sure we have a good direction going forward, and the entire goal is to make this a fun forum that people want to stay involved with.
Legofin2012 Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 Basically they are exiled dark elves that live in Nocturnus; they were often used as a "common" enemy of the other guilds in stories and such. (But beyond that I don't know much about them either!) Thanks for what you do know! And I guess Orcs are a form of elvish things, so dark Orcs are also Drow?
Captain BeerBeard Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 (edited) @rogue More people should have a say in it. As of now it seems like everyone who has put countless hours and thousands of dollars in to this has no say. We were promised that GoH would be ours, the people that made GoH. Giving the people who shaped this project freedom might be a good start. This GoH thing only works because of all the contributers not because of regs and mods and fellows. Without the people there is no GoH or Eurobricks. Edited June 1, 2013 by Captain BeerBeard
Captain Nemo Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 Thanks for what you do know! And I guess Orcs are a form of elvish things, so dark Orcs are also Drow? No. Orcs are more just orcs, while Drow are just Drow--if that makes sense. Really the Drow are their own thing, and so like an Orc from Avalonia or Mitgardia is not going to be related to the Drow.
Kai NRG Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 @Legofin, here's some more info about the Drow: Power hungry dark elves that live mostly underground and in the Rakarth mountains. 3500 years ago, banned from the surfaces of other continents, the Drow started construction of their first mayor city inside the Rakath Mountains. For the next 1200 years they lived under the surface. Eventually, elves found a Drow city. That was the start of many Drow wars in the continent. After 400 years of war, the resources of the Drow starts to empty. The Drow-lord started conquering Nocturnus. Nocturnus got darker and darker as the Drow together with the Dragons adapted the region to their needs. The Drow conquer the elves, but are repulsed by Kaliphlin, who ultimately force them into hiding. Drow begin to raid into all of Historica. Drow hosted Gladiator Games and a Warrior Beauty contest. They built several cities - Lith My'athar, Lurth Dreir, Elesee-Luna, and Waterdeep. Attempted to overthrow Lord Ssilyrrlith. Finally, they were exiled, and are now rebuilding somewhere on an island of the uncharted lands, growing stronger everyday...
Legofin2012 Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 (edited) No. Orcs are more just orcs, while Drow are just Drow--if that makes sense. Really the Drow are their own thing, and so like an Orc from Avalonia or Mitgardia is not going to be related to the Drow. I'm just saying that because I've created some shadow orcs, controlled be the shadow master, on who I will be creating a short story to do with my Sig-fig. @Legofin, here's some more info about the Drow: Power hungry dark elves that live mostly underground and in the Rakarth mountains. 3500 years ago, banned from the surfaces of other continents, the Drow started construction of their first mayor city inside the Rakath Mountains. For the next 1200 years they lived under the surface. Eventually, elves found a Drow city. That was the start of many Drow wars in the continent. After 400 years of war, the resources of the Drow starts to empty. The Drow-lord started conquering Nocturnus. Nocturnus got darker and darker as the Drow together with the Dragons adapted the region to their needs. The Drow conquer the elves, but are repulsed by Kaliphlin, who ultimately force them into hiding. Drow begin to raid into all of Historica. Drow hosted Gladiator Games and a Warrior Beauty contest. They built several cities - Lith My'athar, Lurth Dreir, Elesee-Luna, and Waterdeep. Attempted to overthrow Lord Ssilyrrlith. Finally, they were exiled, and are now rebuilding somewhere on an island of the uncharted lands, growing stronger everyday... Thanks, had no idea so thought I'd ask. Edited June 1, 2013 by Legofin2012
Maxim I Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 Thanks, had no idea so thought I'd ask. Kai and Nemo were first to help you The are based on a race in a game, but I don't know exactly what game anymore (maybe google can help you with that) And on a general note: that's why us members should keeping the Wikia updated every now and then. It is a really good job of ZC to attract all those new members, but they should have a resource (the wikia) where they can find all the information about past events or other characters people It is more fun for them if they really can jump into Historica and they are informed about the most things
kabel Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 the game with the drow is called Baldurs Gate, damn played that for countless days when I had it ....
ZCerberus Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 @rogue More people should have a say in it. As of now it seems like everyone who has put countless hours and thousands of dollars in to this has no say. We were promised that GoH would be ours, the people that made GoH. Giving the people who shaped this project freedom might be a good start. This GoH thing only works because of all the contributers not because of regs and mods and fellows. Without the people there is no GoH or Eurobricks. What is your suggestion?
Rogue Angel Posted June 1, 2013 Posted June 1, 2013 Drow are dark Elves from the Forgotten Realms Campaign in Dungeons and Dragons. Baldur's Gate is set in that world.
SkaForHire Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 Okay, since I know many of you have put in a lot of time in GoH, (and since Kabel made me feel like I was ignoring all of you ) I would like to share part of what I suggested to the other leaders for the next chapter and you can offer some feedback. Goals of this next mini-challenge/idea (based on some of the thoughts you supplied in this thread earlier) Get people into Nocturnus Remove GOLD as the motivating factor Offer multiple options so people with limited collections (or time) can still participate Introduce some team work and some competitive balance to a challenge Apply some of the (this needed to be redacted as it is a secret) framework to give it a go. Allow new people a good spot to get into the guilds. Introduce some more direct (and some intraguild) competition Following up on what many of you said earlier in this thread, the general idea would be the next challenge/story arc would specifically be set in Nocturnus. The idea would be two competing factions (both internal Nocturnus) would battle for control of the land. Those who are currently in Nocturnus could immediately choose their side. Any new member could elect to be in Nocturnus and would also get to choose their side immediately. Everyone else who wants to participate in the challenge would be randomly assigned a side in an attempt to "balance" the two sides so the competition would be... well... competitve. From here you can choose to use your own established GoH character or you can create a new one specifically for this mini-challenge. In an effort to respond to the ideas that the challenges became too big or that people simply wanted to build something cool with those who don't like restrictions, the challenge would consist of 3 categories. Onw would be a building challenge limited to 32 x 32, the second would be a story challenge with no limit on size and the third would be a vignette challenge for those who really want to highlight working with figures, or with lmited time or resources. On the judging and transparency issues... The judging will consist of three judges who will not be participants. These judges will write an "opinion" on which side they believe has won each of the three categories. Whichever side wins two of the three judges' votes wins the category and naturally the side that wins TWO categories is now the side that controls Nocturnus. I can already see some wondering what will become of the already established leaders/characters in Nocturnus... though there will/maybe a new figurehead/guild colors for the guild, players from the "losing" side will be offered amnesty back into the winning faction- but if you don't want back in, maybe your character can flee to another land or plot and wait for the story to circle back to your guild for some revenge! Because the management has become difficult with the real life duties of each of the guild leaders and because my real life responsibility is due in about two weeks, I would be directing this first campaign and would NOT be participating in the builds, though I would build the prelude scene(s) and would act as one of the three judges. This also cuts down on who needs to get authorization or to do what and if we move this structure to other guilds, it would be easy to get other active members in the guild we are centered on some management responsibilities for a time to try it out. Prizes would consist of brick-built trophies. I *might* be able to get set prizes donated for each category as well, but that is not certain. IF this structure is successful, it could be moved to other guilds to progress the story in each land. When we move to the next Guildland, we could elect new judges or co-director's to develope the story for that guild. If something LIKE this was implemented, would you be excited? Upset? Intrigued? Ready to bolt to LCC? Thank you for getting the ball rolling, Z. Well, I like most of this. For the most part, the technical issues are all there, except I think that more people should be on the administrative body for the next story arch (I think I laid out a good leadership plan in my proposed constitution, even if some details need to be hammered out). As for the plotline... I am a little iffy. The plot itself is good, but dividing up the guilds into teams rather than competing as guilds seems counter to the history of the project so far. I like all you Avalonians, but I like my team more. I wouldn't want to go ripping up the guilds for builder balance. I don't think this is what you are proposing, but the way it is written, I get that feeling. Also, by focusing so much on Nocturnus (for a full 6 challenge story arch), I wonder if we are limiting ourselves a little too much. Maybe the conflict starts in Nocturnus and spreads like wildfire to the territories of the other guilds in the later challenges? I love the idea of three categories, that is a great way to give more people a chance at great recognition. Lastly, I think we all understand that leadership has other parts of their life to tend to, but I think there were many volunteers that would help step in and run things, and rotations would keep everyone from burning out. I don't think anyone wants to rip the baby from the arms of our mother creators here, they just want to provide a nanny for the project. Each guild leader is still held in high esteem, even if they have not been able to participate as much as possible. I hope none of them feel as if we are ungrateful to them by wanting to have more hands on control of the project.
Rogue Angel Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 This is exactly the kind of thing that bogs everything down. Some think it's a good idea to get rid of gold, some want it to stay. Some people like the idea of meddling with Nocturnus, some don't want it to be the focus. Some want fighting, others don't. Everyone has an opinion and wants to tweak things this way or that. General member involvement at the guild level is far more feasible than mass involvement for the entire general storyline. Each guild has different focuses and goals. The overall storyline will also be more cohesive and logical when a few people are consistently doing it throughout a chapter. I think that rotating leadership has potential at a guild level, but not on a grand scheme level. I also think that the beauty of the guilds is that they are so open in terms of building options and locations, and restricting that with a lot of rules and guidelines would be a bad idea.
Mike S Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 (edited) I really don't see a problem with Z's idea or even that the ones working on the idea are limited to EB staff. In fact I think it makes sense. I didn't even take it as Chapter 2 but as something to try out to see how it went. Historica still belongs to the members even if the Z and other EB staff work on another storyline. Everyone is free to make their own stories and locations. If someone didn't like the idea of elementals destroying their homes in Chapter 1 they could make up a story of how their homes avoided destruction. I consider what Z is working on as an extra bonus as well as a way to bring more members to GoH. I really don't see us regular members missing out on anything except some decision making and immediate knowledge of what is planned. If you want to work on a multi member story, get together with some other GoH members and make some GoH history. Edited June 2, 2013 by Masa of Kaliphlin
SkaForHire Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 This is exactly the kind of thing that bogs everything down. Some think it's a good idea to get rid of gold, some want it to stay. Some people like the idea of meddling with Nocturnus, some don't want it to be the focus. Some want fighting, others don't. Everyone has an opinion and wants to tweak things this way or that. General member involvement at the guild level is far more feasible than mass involvement for the entire general storyline. Each guild has different focuses and goals. The overall storyline will also be more cohesive and logical when a few people are consistently doing it throughout a chapter. I think that rotating leadership has potential at a guild level, but not on a grand scheme level. I also think that the beauty of the guilds is that they are so open in terms of building options and locations, and restricting that with a lot of rules and guidelines would be a bad idea. I don't agree here, with a smaller core there is a larger chance that the project will fall apart because we are overburdening the leadership. We have already seen how taxing this can be for a hobby. With a rotating body preparing and executing story-lines and challenges, there is less chance for burnout and more chance that different elements rotate through the general project. I am sure some of you have played MMORPGs or FPSs and belonged to a guild / club / clan / etc... you may have even ran one... they are extremely taxing keeping things running without good help. I imagine that this project is similar, except that the guild leaders are not only holding guilds together but also creating the content that forty or so members are demanding more and more of. The more duties are spread, the longer the life of the project. That doesn't mean that whoever is running the plotline has to dislodge all the secrets of the story or what the future challenges will be, just that there should be a plan in place to give that person a break if they so wish.
Rogue Angel Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 I agree that it is key to keep things running and not burn out the Guild Leaders, bit this can be accomplished with the vice guild leaders or the creation of guild positions similar to what Mitgardia has done. I think we can agree that GoH did not "break down" during the first Chapter, there was just less guild leader interaction within each guild then some people wanted. By getting help at the guild level, the guild leaders will not be overtaxed like they were in the first Chapter. This will also allow for more input and participation by members at the guild level, which is what most people have been asking for. I think the main storyline was great for the first Chapter and I think it would suffer if it were spread out through multiple authors.
kabel Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 (edited) bit this can be accomplished with the vice guild leaders or the creation of guild positions similar to what Mitgardia has done. actually our election campaign challenge was more about making fun of election campaigns and truth be told, our first prime minister disappeared right after he got elected. As for Eccs stepping in, I suppose he would have done so even without the prime minister elections. Furthermore, we now have the leader and the prime minister combined in Eccs which doensn't really make that much sense either if the postition was to be filled with the true power of a vice leader. Edited June 2, 2013 by kabel
Brickington Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 Wow! I sense a bit of tension going on. But, I also sense some hard work as well. I believe we should stop criticizing Z. He has put more effort in to this that probably anybody here. I mean come on, he got us frontpaged! Anyway, you guys probably noticed my decline in activity and I am truly sorry for that. Hopefully I will have more time this fall. So till then, Adios! How in the hell did I get a tag with my sorry lot of work?
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